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Lenny R2
07-12-2009, 09:44 PM
While going to a cruise night in my 63 Avanti yesterday i heard a strange noise something told me stop & check everything but i kept going,when i arrived & got out there was antifreeze all over the
ground.I thought maybe bottom hose.I called my son he brought me 5
gallons of water ,my tool box & thermostat gasket,i putthe water in & drive off 1/2 mile its HOT.I take the grill out & the
electric fan is in a bunch of pieces & punched a hole in the
radiator.I squeeze the leak tight & made it home okay.My question
is it possible those plastic ties they sell for holding electric
fans on snaped & caused the fan to fall apart or a small rock
came threw the grill & got wedged in the spinning fan.I will
either get the leak fixed or get it recored again & get a new
electric fan.Any body had any problems with those plastic ties they
sell to hold electric fans on,or do ineed to make metal brackets

Lenny
Atlanta Ga.

CDeffaa
07-12-2009, 10:18 PM
Either of your theories as to what caused the problem sound plausible. A small rock reaching the right spot can sure cause a lot of damage. And a plastic tie could certainly snap (and snap a lot more easily than a metal bracket). If you're handy and could make a stronger metal bracket to replace a plastic tie, that sounds like a good idea even if you're never able to figure out for sure what caused the problem.... But I sure do know that feeling you describe, where you have a hunch you should stop the car but decide to keep going anyway, and later find that you've made a small problem bigger by not stopping when you first felt you should. We've all been there.

chip deffaa

ST2DE5
07-12-2009, 10:28 PM
Make a bracket off of your radiator support to hold the electric fan. Never attach it to your radiator.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/51stude/StudebakerPlant.jpg
7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2

Thomas63R2
07-12-2009, 10:34 PM
why are you running an electric fan?

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

Lenny R2
07-13-2009, 02:59 PM
Thomas I need a electric fan because on a Avanti the grill is under the bumper not enough air flow.I have triedand checked everything
that is sugested on the Avanti forum & all Avanti club magazines.It still runs 220-230.

Lenny
Atlanta Ga.

JBOYLE
07-13-2009, 03:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by Lenny R2

Thomas I need a electric fan because on a Avanti the grill is under the bumper not enough air flow.I have triedand checked everything
that is sugested on the Avanti forum & all Avanti club magazines.It still runs 220-230.
Lenny
Atlanta Ga.


To state the obvious...
that's not normal for an Avanti, they normally don't run that hot.
So instead of addressing the symptom with an electric fan, I'd re-check the system.
Quite possibly a really old, clogged radiator. A friend is restoring my car along with another 63. He took both radiators to be cleaned...mine came out akay, the other one pretty much fell apart. In 46 years, a lot of crud could be hiding in there.
Also, to restate the obvious...check the thermostat.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

Gunslinger
07-13-2009, 03:19 PM
When you get the damage repaired, try adding the Saturn air deflector shown on Bob Johnstone's Avanti site. I installed one and the engine temperature dropped a consistent 10-15 degrees on the highway. It's of no value sitting and idling but it definitely helped at cruising speeds.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

Laemmle
07-13-2009, 04:44 PM
In 42 years my Avanti has never overheated, in the heat of Miami



quote:Originally posted by Lenny R2

Thomas I need a electric fan because on a Avanti the grill is under the bumper not enough air flow.I have triedand checked everything
that is sugested on the Avanti forum & all Avanti club magazines.It still runs 220-230.

Lenny
Atlanta Ga.

jclary
07-13-2009, 06:47 PM
OK, I have another suggestion to look for. Make sure you have the thin gasket called for with your water pump. The temptation to put a thicker gasket on is hard to resist, but it will increase the impeller clearance to the back wall of the manifold and cause the pump to decrease flow and therefore efficiency. Also, as has been mentioned before on the forum, some time back there was a run of bad replacement water pumps on the market. Hope yours is not one of them.

Gunslinger
07-13-2009, 08:02 PM
Are you sure it's actually overheating? It could be a bad sending unit or a bad gauge. That happened to me with a brand X I used to own. I went nuts trying to figure out why it was overheating when it actually wasn't...it was a bad temp gauge.

Get an infrared temp meter or simply place a cooking thermometer in the expansion tank and let the car idle. Compare what that gauge and the dash gauge each show.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

Lenny R2
07-13-2009, 09:22 PM
My radiator was recored 3 years ago to a 3 row.I removed the freeze plugs,i have a new clutch fan,6 blades on the fan.
I have the saturn air dam,i have a new water pump from Fairborn,New temp sending unit,I drilled 4 holes near the top
of the fenders like on the Avanti2 & checked it with a infred temp gun.It doesent boil over but runs about 220/230
That why i installed the electric fan.I have heard if you drill out the thermostat by pass hole to 3/4 possible
help.Also the water manifold ports,cyl head & block ports might have casting blocking parts of the holes.& the
timing is set correct.3 or 4 year old 180 thermostat,brand new silvertone exhaust system,valves adjusted to specks.
Brakes not to tight.I dont know what else to DO.

Lenny
Atlanta Ga.

Thomas63R2
07-13-2009, 10:28 PM
My R2 has happily bombed through 300 miles of California desert at 75 mph with no cooling issues. Being a bottom feeder is not a cooling issue on my Avanti or my Corvette.

Wow - you have seemingly thrown the book at your cooling system, yet heat is still an issue. There are a lot of good tips in the replies, might be worth rechecking everything. Jclary mentions a couple of good ones that are often overlooked.

A couple of things you may want to try:
1) remove the supercharger belts and give a report back on temperatures for comprable driving. When a Paxton is low on oil, or when the oil is shot - it will heat up the intake air something fierce. Also, if your carb is running lean that will run the temps up.
2) try adding ignition advance and see if the cooling trends down in temperature. Your crankshaft damper may have slipped leaving you with an incorrect initial advance. If the ignition event happens too late, then your exhaust temp will spike upwards. In dyno testing of supercharged engines when I have had the luxury of individual exhaust temperature probes I have seen more than 100 degrees difference in exhaust temperature due to initial advance.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

Gunslinger
07-14-2009, 11:27 AM
You have done a ton or work to your car.

If you do have to get your radiator re-cored. Have a core built with more fins per inch...that will increase cooling area considerably and is actually more efficient than adding another row. You might also consider having an aluminum radiator fabricated...aluminum is better at shedding heat than standard steel and brass, plus takes a bit of weight off the front end.

Has your radiator cap been pressure tested? If it doesn't hold pressure the car can overheat. Do you have the right kind of radiator cap? There are caps for closed systems and open systems. If you have the stock system on your car you have an open system. If you have an overflow tank (not the factory expansion tank), you have a closed system and each requires a different cap.

Are you sure your cooling system has been properly bled of air? If there are air pockets it's like a blockage and the car will run hotter than normal.

Does the engine hit those temps at all times while driving? Is it only when idling or just while on the highway. If it's on the highway, the lower radiator hose can collapse under vacuum pressure and create a blockage. There should be a spring inside the hose to keep that from occurring. If the spring is not there...either by rusting away or missing altogether, that can certainly cause an overheating problem.

Once you have your repairs done, add coolant, make sure the air is bled out, and add a container of Water Wetter or similar product. That coats the internals of the system and improves heat transfer.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

WCP
07-14-2009, 01:43 PM
You've changed a lot of things, but when the car gives an indication of running hot without any evidence of coolant loss, you should always start with an examination of the gauge and sending unit. At room temp.(70F) the sending unit should measure 800ohms+/-20. Measurements that I have made on a good GT Hawk gauge (same as Avanti) yielded the following results: 116 ohms@150F, 100@170F & 83@185F. I had a sending unit fail on a trip and the gauge went up to 240F. Knowing that the engine was not running hot, I disconnected the gauge so it wouldn't peg and ruin the gauge. At the end of the trip I checked the sending unit and got 58ohms at room temp. I replaced it with a Standard TS527 that measured 820ohms@68F. My R2 Avanti has a 160F themostat and typically runs at highway speed at 170F. I'm using a 13psi rad cap. Check the resistance of your sending unit to ground in the car at 70F and then with a "hot" engine. If the readings compare with the above then the sender is good and the gauge is bad. You can check the gauge with a variable resistor in place of the sending unit, comparing the resistance and gauge reading to the above Hawk unit data.

fmarshall
07-14-2009, 01:46 PM
You stated that you removed the freeze plugs. Did you use a coat hangar, and other probes to clean of the rust buildup inside the block water passages?

Assuming the engine is performing correctly: right fuel/air mix, proper octane, and timing, SC in good working order, then overheating is always caused from poor circulation of coolant.

It's real important to use a temperature device for testing other than the one in the car. A bad sending unit or gauge has cost people a lot of money fixing stuff that wasn't even broke.

========================
63 Avanti R2, 4-Speed, 3.73 TT
Martinez, CA
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd211/fmarshall_bucket/sigpic.jpg

dakem
07-16-2009, 12:13 AM
I had an overheating problem with my Avanti; it would heat up to 210F. I pulled out the thermostat and it check out ok in hot water on the stove, but I replaced it just to be sure. This didn't work, so I replaced the waterpump; still no success. I decided to have the radiator cleaned and this is what I found wedged in the radiator inlet. I guess the previous owner wasn't curious where his missing thermostat went. Once I removed the obstruction my Avanti now runs at 190F in stop and go rush hour traffic in Los Angeles.
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/dakem_photo/Unwanted%20part/Picture206.jpg

64studeavanti
07-16-2009, 08:16 PM
One other important thing to check for is a blown head gasket. There are some kits available at the local parts store to check for that. On my Avanti, I had done everything you did and still ran hot. Compression checked out ok etc. Pulled the heads a lo and behold, one of the gaskets was shot. Had heads milled and valves done, new gaskets and no overheating even in near 100 degree weather in Tampa!

okc63avanti
07-16-2009, 11:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by fmarshall

You stated that you removed the freeze plugs. Did you use a coat hangar, and other probes to clean of the rust buildup inside the block water passages?

Assuming the engine is performing correctly: right fuel/air mix, proper octane, and timing, SC in good working order, then overheating is always caused from poor circulation of coolant.

It's real important to use a temperature device for testing other than the one in the car. A bad sending unit or gauge has cost people a lot of money fixing stuff that wasn't even broke.

========================
63 Avanti R2, 4-Speed, 3.73 TT
Martinez, CA

The above comment about using a coat hanger or something to reach up into the water passage ways is important. My car is currently being restored by Michael Myer of Myers Studebaker and he tells me it is not uncommon for the machine shop he uses to rebuild engines to have to dip an engine and flush as many 4 times to finally get the water coming out clean from all freeze plug ports. 45+ years a lot of gunk builds up inside the engine. With the angle the Stude V8 sits in the Avanti its often the rear most plugs around rear cylinders that the crud accumulates in.

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (unrestored)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

warrlaw1
07-17-2009, 12:46 PM
Thank you, Dakem. I had to see that to believe it. Only advice I can offer is to repeat advice found in TW about some aluminum timing gears not having the timing marks in the correct place. That would seem as unlikely as Dakem's discovery, but strange things do happen!