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almill
07-09-2009, 01:10 PM
Recently bought a 1950 Commander 2 door with 37,000 miles on it.Drained oil and have a new filter. Am looking for advice on type, brand and weight oil. Sent radiator out to be tested. Going to be recored. Gas tank in shop being cleaned and tested. Hope to do justice to a deserving car

HarryStude
07-09-2009, 02:09 PM
A lot of people are using 15-40 delo but I am a shell rotella guy myself.

PROUDLY MADE IN AMERICA

Gunslinger
07-09-2009, 02:19 PM
The way I look at it, the cheapest oil available today is far better than the finest oils available when your car was built. There are no Mom and Pop refineries. The big guys make them and sell them under various private labels as well as their own names. The basic differences between different company's products is the additive package, but even then, they're designed to do the same thing...lubricate and protect your engine's internal parts. For areas of higher temperatures you could go with a straight 30 weight oil or simply pick a 10W-30 for year round. I don't see the point of going to synthetic oil...stick to dino stuff.

Some get up in a tizzy about reduction is ZDDP (zinc) in today's oil formulations. It's really only a factor in high performance engines with high valve spring pressures or when breaking in a new camshaft. I don't believe either is a factor in your car. If you feel you have to worry about that, just pour in a container of STP and you're covered.

Regular oil and filter changes is more important than what brand oil you're using. Go buy Wal Mart's house brand oil or buy Quaker State, Pennzoil, Castrol, etc., and tear the engine down after 100k miles and I doubt if you see any difference in internal wear or cleanliness.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

tutone63
07-09-2009, 02:23 PM
oboy. You have asked the "most frequently asked question" for this forum.

By the way WELCOME!

My best bet for you and the best advice I can give: Do a search on "ZDDP oil" There are many threads worth reading about the oil to use in our Studebakers.
(by the way. zddp is a zinc blend used in older oils, for the preservation of flat tappet engines...which consists of every studebaker engine ever built, and a lack of it can cause damage over time, newer oils don't have it added anymore. Personally, I use a bottle of STP everytime I change the oil, as I have heard that it contains the proper amount of zddp for older engines)

Good luck!

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/tutone63/63larkside-1.jpghttp://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/images/smilies/035.gif


1963 Lark, 259 V8, two-tone paint, Twin Traction. Driven often, always noticed!

almill
07-09-2009, 03:08 PM
Hey guys,
Thanks for the fast response. The advice is appreciated and will be followed.. I have another question.....What type of anti-freeze should be used? I may be an old timer, but I can still use a little guidance. Thanks for the help

jnormanh
07-09-2009, 03:25 PM
[quote]Originally posted by tutone63

oboy. You have asked the "most frequently asked question" for this forum.

By the way WELCOME!

My best bet for you and the best advice I can give: Do a search on "ZDDP oil" There are many threads worth reading about the oil to use in our Studebakers.
(by the way. zddp is a zinc blend used in older oils, for the preservation of flat tappet engines...which consists of every studebaker engine ever built


You might note that every Volvo engine built for the past 20 years including every Volvo now sold has "flat" tappets as do many, many other current engines, and they are doing just fine on modern motor oils.

curt
07-09-2009, 03:28 PM
I use Prestone. Some new antifreeze formulas,I have been told, will leak in the gasket areas. See what others chat back. Also, SEARCH will bring up a lot of past discussion on antifreeze and oils.

Gunslinger
07-09-2009, 03:29 PM
Any current coolant should be fine. Stick with a glycol based coolant...the brand should be immaterial. Go with a 50-50 blend...either by mixing it yourself or by purchasing the gallons of already blended coolant. That's easier but a bit more expensive.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

Gunslinger
07-09-2009, 03:33 PM
BTW - If you want to start flame wars on most any auto forum, ask three things...which is the best oil, the best tires, or the best wax. Any of those will start a free for all. This forum is very, very casual and friendly...you won't see much, if any cross words here. Some other auto forums are verbal combat.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

Tennessee hillbilly
07-09-2009, 03:38 PM
Shell Rotella

Tennessee Hillbilly
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/larkv111/Eds60Larkconvertible001-1.jpg?t=1234128482

tutone63
07-09-2009, 04:08 PM
Whatever you use...put this in it;):

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30842

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/tutone63/63larkside-1.jpghttp://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/images/smilies/035.gif


1963 Lark, 259 V8, two-tone paint, Twin Traction. Driven often, always noticed!

BobGlasscock
07-09-2009, 06:02 PM
Hey! [:0] Don't tease the new guy! ;)

'50 Champion, 1 family owner
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg316/studebakerbob/SDC%20avatar/Studebakerstuff019.jpghttp://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg316/studebakerbob/SDC%20avatar/Studebakerstuff018.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
07-09-2009, 06:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by tutone63


(by the way. zddp is a zinc blend used in older oils, for the preservation of flat tappet engines...which consists of every studebaker engine ever built, and a lack of it can cause damage over time, newer oils don't have it added anymore.


I've posted this before, but it states that that ZDDP is still added to all motor oils in a quantity that protects flat tappet cams.

Oil choice is just one of those things that is done in many different ways and the user of each way is generally pretty adamant that their way is the only right way. :D.

Engine Oil Mythology
Bob Olree
GMPT – Fuels & Lubes

Myths are ill-founded beliefs held uncritically by interested groups. Over the years there has been an overabundance of engine oil myths. One was that the only good oils were oils made from “Pure Pennsylvania Crude Oil.” This one got started before the Second World War when engine oil was crude oil with very minimal refining, and crude oil from Pennsylvania made better engine oil than Texas or California crude. With modern refining, almost any crude can be made into good engine oil.

The next myth was that “modern” detergent engine oils were bad for older engines. This one got started after the Second World War, when the government no longer needed all the detergent oil for the war effort, and it hit the market as Heavy-Duty oil. These new detergent oils gave the pre-war cars, which had been driven way past their normal life and were full of sludge and deposits, a massive enema. In some cases bad things happened such as increased oil consumption – the piston rings were completely worn out and the massive piston deposits were the only thing standing between merely high and horrendous oil consumption. If detergent oils had been available to the public during the war, this myth never would have started.

Amazingly there are still a few people today, 60 years later, who believe that they need to use non-detergent oil in their older cars. Apparently it takes about 75 years for an oil myth to die.

Then there is the myth that new engines will not break-in on synthetic oils. Apparently there was an aircraft engine manufacturer who once put out a bulletin to this effect. Clearly the thousands and thousands of cars filled with Mobil 1 as factory-fill, which have broke-in quite well, should have put this one to rest. However this one is only 40 years old, so it has another 35 years to live.

All of these myths have a common theme; newer oils are bad. And this brings us to the latest myth – new “Starburst”/ API SM engine oils are bad for older cars because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. This one has gotten big play in the antique and collector car press lately. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth we need to look at the history of ZDP usage in engine oil.

ZDP has been used for over 60 years as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability. Unfortunately, ZDP contains phosphorus, and phosphorus is a poison for automotive catalysts. For this reason ZDP levels have been reduced by about 35% over the last 10-15 years down to a maximum of 0.08% for “Starburst”/API SM oils.

Zinc dithiophosphate was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Starting in 1942, a Chevrolet Stovebolt engine with aftermarket copper/lead insert bearing connecting rods was the standard oil test . The insert bearings were weighed before and after test for weight loss due to corrosion. The phosphorus levels of oils that passed the test were in the 0.03% range.

In the mid 1950s Oldsmobile got in a horsepower war with its Rocket engine against the Chrysler Hemi. Both companies went to high-lift camshafts and both got into camshaft scuffing and wear problems very fas

okc63avanti
07-09-2009, 06:58 PM
I plan on using Valvoline VR-1 Racing oil
It has ZDDP levels comparable to older forumulated oils but is a modern oil designed for racing applications. With this oil the ZDDP additives shouldn't be needed.

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (unrestored)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

41 Frank
07-09-2009, 07:08 PM
I'll chime in here at my own risk but I know how to duck.;)Racing oil is excellent oil, the only drawback with using it in a street driven car is that is does not contain the proper additives to hold up under longer drain intervals as far as combating crankcase byproducts such as acids etc.. Reason being, race engines have their oil changed a lot more frequently than street driven vehicles.


quote:Originally posted by okc63avanti

I plan on using Valvoline VR-1 Racing oil
It has ZDDP levels comparable to older forumulated oils but is a modern oil designed for racing applications. With this oil the ZDDP additives shouldn't be needed.

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (unrestored)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

Bud
07-09-2009, 08:00 PM
I've had good luck with either Shell Rotella or Chevron Delo 400 15W-40 in my older engines. I use those oils because we have big trucks and farming equipment with diesel engines and I see no reason to stock a bunch of different oils. Bud

okc63avanti
07-09-2009, 08:34 PM
[quote]Originally posted by 41 Frank

I'll chime in here at my own risk but I know how to duck.;)Racing oil is excellent oil, the only drawback with using it in a street driven car is that is does not contain the proper additives to hold up under longer drain intervals as far as combating crankcase byproducts such as acids etc.. Reason being, race engines have their oil changed a lot more frequently than street driven vehicles.

Frank,

Thanks for chiming in but Valvoline VR-1 is rated API grade "SM" which is for gasoline vehicles and is currently the highest grade motor oil available, it supersedes all previous grades. The beauty of Valvoline's VR-1 is it still has the same levels of ZDDP as the older motor oils (see link to Valvoline data specs in my original post). Here's a chart (see link below) with diagram of motor oil grades from the API. The order of grades shown for gasoline and diesel motor oils is from highest grade on top to older or lower grades going down. Each of the newer and higher grades meets or exceeds the quality standards of the previous grades. I hope this helps.

http://www.apicj-4.org/EngineOilGuide2006.pdf


<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (unrestored)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

curt
07-09-2009, 09:28 PM
Dick, thanks for such a complete review of the issue.

Lark Hunter
07-09-2009, 09:47 PM
There are many opinions on lubrication and other fluids used in our machinery. Seems everyone finds what works for them, and sticks to it. I will say that I have had a 100% failure rate with the GM Dex-cool antifreeze (the orange stuff in the silver plastic jug). Five vehicles in "the fleet" were flushed and filled with the orange stuff, or already had Dex-Cool as factory fill, while three others retained the standard green. Over the next two years, each one of the five started leaking coolant... usually from strange places such as: water pump to block gaskets, heater hose to core connection, water bypass gasket, intake gasket, and on and on. The other three were fine. I found a case of the green stuff kicking around the shop, and that is what I am using at this time. I don't have any experience with the yellow colored Prestone that seems to be superceding the old green, but I haven't heard anything bad about it. I think you can still get the green stuff at NAPA. Hope this helps...

LH

royvaldez
07-09-2009, 10:05 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think so. Dex-cool is used for modern cars that have aluminum heads. Do not use on cast iron heads. Dex Cool Will turn to heavy dried out substance. Use 10-40 delo. I own a 1950 Commander. That what I use. If you have a brand new rebuilt, try using sythetic. Now the question I have for you, does your commander have an automatic or stardard tranny?

almill
07-10-2009, 08:00 AM
Wow,
I can't believe the response from you guys. You are awesome!!! In answer to royvaldez...it has three on the tree with overdrive and hillholder. Thanks to all for your help.

nibbs53
07-10-2009, 02:11 PM
e-mail from stp

Thank you for contacting us about your STP Oil Treatment. We always appreciate hearing from our consumers.



STP Oil Treatment has always contained ZDDP. However, the amount it contains is proprietary. What I can tell is that when you add one bottle with four to five quarts of oil, it will provide you the same protection the older motor oils once provided.



Again, thank you for contacting us.


Sincerely,





Patti Copper


Consumer Response Representative


Consumer Services

Gunslinger
07-10-2009, 02:29 PM
Supposedly, the red container of STP (for 4-cylinder cars) has about double the ZDDP as the blue container. Due to that, whether it's true or not, the red container is hard to find from people buying them up. I think it's overkill as the blue container has sufficient ZDDP for our cars.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

jnormanh
07-10-2009, 02:45 PM
[quote]Originally posted by royvaldez

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think so. Dex-cool is used for modern cars that have aluminum heads.

Okay. My '96 iron head Caddy (LT1 engine)came factory filled with DexCool. I drained it for the first time at 12 years and 100K miles. The engine is as clean as the day it left the factory. No leaks, no corrosion, no gunk.

Gunslinger
07-10-2009, 03:22 PM
If you decide to use Dex-Cool, be absolutely sure to completely flush your cooling system of the old coolant. There have been many complaints about Dex-Cool causing problems, and numerous lawsuits against GM. If they've been settled I don't know. Some say Dex-Cool gums up the system and creates leaks or will create problems if the level is allowed to run too low. The only thing that seems to be agreed upon is mixing Dex-Cool and ethylene glycol (the green coolant) creates problems due to non-compatibility. That does create sludge in the cooling system.

My 2002 Avanti came with Dex-Cool as factory fill and has caused no problems. I wouldn't change to the green stuff as I couldn't guarantee a complete flush. If I had a car with ethylene glycol based coolant, I wouldn't change to Dex-Cool for the same reasons. Whatever your car has now, I would stick with the same type.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

MotorHead
07-14-2009, 09:37 PM
FYI: I work for an oil company that markets oil specifically for customers who want high zddp levels....so my post is NOT impartial, but we DO tell folks how much zinc and phosphorous is in our oil, and we DO sell our zddp additive (ZBoost) separately, for those folks who wish to buy their oil locally. If you are interested, check out our website:
http://www.MotorHeadOil.com