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hotrodstude
07-02-2009, 09:57 PM
who designed the studebaker ? did they also design the packard?any parts interchangeable? the intakes look alike. just wanted to know. they seem to be layed out the same.

StudeRich
07-02-2009, 10:06 PM
Mr. Stanwood Sparrow of Studebaker Engineering has been credited with designing the Stude. V-8.

The design and parts on the Cadillac are much closer than a Packard, they have about no similarity. There are 0 significant interchangeable parts, the Carb. would fit a '55-'62 Stude. with a 4 Brl. Manifold, that's about it.

Packard was not associated with Studebaker in 1951 when Studebaker released the Commander 232 V-8.

StudeRich

okc63avanti
07-02-2009, 10:15 PM
The July 1990 TW magazine had an article "The Studebaker V8 Story" by Walter Corbin,

Maybe someone has an old issue they can scan.

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (unrestored)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

Skinnys Garage
07-02-2009, 10:18 PM
Depends on what Studebakers and Packards you're talking about. The '56 Studebaker Golden Hawk had a Packard V8 and the '57-'58 Packards had Stude V8's, so in those cases all the parts would interchange - sort of;)

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu37/mytoygarage/my59Lark.jpg
Skinny
Watertown, SD

okc63avanti
07-02-2009, 10:18 PM
Here's a link to a V8 history posted on Bob Johnstone's excellent web site.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/text3/studenghist.txt

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (unrestored)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

Mike Van Veghten
07-02-2009, 10:55 PM
All due respect to Mr. Sparrow...no one man designed the Stude engine.
While he may have been the boss, he was just one of the many fish.

Kinda like a body designer we all know of...

Mike

barnlark
07-02-2009, 11:54 PM
Sounds about right, Mike. Much written on that subject. Not sure of the accuracy, but this one from Consumer Guide:

"Studebaker had a terrific follow-up to blockbluster 1950: a modern new V-8. Like the trendsetting 1949 Oldsmobile and Cadillac engines, it was a light, compact, and efficient overhead-valve design. Engineers led by Stanwood Sparrow began work in 1948, with development headed by engine specialist T. S. Scherger. The result was another Studebaker exclusive among the independents, and years ahead of the Chevy, Ford, and Plymouth overhead-valve V-8s.
Arriving as standard for the 1951 Land Cruiser and Commander, the Studebaker V-8 was an oversquare design with 232.9 cubic inches on a bore and stroke of 3.38x3.25 inches. Horsepower was a lively 120 despite a conservative 7.0:1 compression ratio."

Warren Webb
07-03-2009, 12:44 AM
In a recent issue of "Classic Car", there is an article on rebuilding a first generation Olds V-8 & looking at the pictures, I see alot of similarity between it & the Stude engine. I'm sure it was something they had been working on for some time, but no doubt fine tuned what they had after the Cad & Olds versions were released in 1949. What is a shame is that they wouldn't enlarge the bore after 56 to keep pace with the need for added displacement to remain competitive. Even when the Lark came out in 59, a more "oversquare" engine would have had much more appeal & with the 224 crankshaft they already had built prior, would have had an even more sturdy product with less piston speed, ring wear & combine it with the appropriate cylinder head.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

lstude
07-03-2009, 06:55 AM
There is a good article in Hot Rod magazine August 1952.

It has 7 pages. Maybe I can post it this afternoon.



Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/MyStudebakernobackgroundsm.jpg

Dan Timberlake
07-03-2009, 07:11 AM
Is the Hot Rod article by Roger Huntington?

PackardV8
07-03-2009, 11:09 AM
quote:What is a shame is that they wouldn't enlarge the bore after 56 to keep pace with the need for added displacement to remain competitive.

Yes, X2.

1. The Studebaker V8 bore centers were designed to allow up to 4" bores without siamesing and 4.125" with. Could have easily and inexpensively been done. Reason they didn't, see #2.

2. By 1956, the board of directors had already decided there was no future for Studebaker in the automotive business. If one does the research in MotorWeek, Motor Trend, and the Wall Street Journal, it was a big topic of discussion in '56. They just took until '66 to negotiate with the Eisenhower administration, diversify, wind down the dealer contracts, figure how to dump the union pension liability on the taxpayers and get the best deals for the stockholders.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

Jimmie
07-03-2009, 10:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by PackardV8


quote:What is a shame is that they wouldn't enlarge the bore after 56 to keep pace with the need for added displacement to remain competitive.

Yes, X2.

1. The Studebaker V8 bore centers were designed to allow up to 4" bores without siamesing and 4.125" with. Could have easily and inexpensively been done. Reason they didn't, see #2.

2. By 1956, the board of directors had already decided there was no future for Studebaker in the automotive business. If one does the research in MotorWeek, Motor Trend, and the Wall Street Journal, it was a big topic of discussion in '56. They just took until '66 to negotiate with the Eisenhower administration, diversify, wind down the dealer contracts, figure how to dump the union pension liability on the taxpayers and get the best deals for the stockholders.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

Just a couple of questions:
1. What did the Eisenhower Adm. have to do with it?
2. What did they diversify into?
3. Did the taxpayers really pick up the pension liability and are there still people drawing from it?
Jimmie

jclary
07-03-2009, 10:40 PM
I will admit to replying to this topic without doing my homework. Perhaps some of the articles some of you have mentioned covers this, but I seem to remember reading that the engineers working on designing the Studebaker engine, purchased and studied other makes of V8 engines, including flat head and over head valve engines. I think their intent was to incorporate strength of the others and avoid the weaknesses. If you think about it, considering the numbers of other brands, the Studebaker engines have held their own pretty darn well over the years. A good condition 259 or 289 is still pretty peppy stone cold stock. I drove my lumbering 4 door land cruiser with the stock '51 V8 to the grocery store today and it pulled a pretty steep hill easily while some modern cars faded in the rear view mirror as they struggled to keep up. Other brands have built some pretty good engines, but the Studebaker engines have withstood the test of time and take a back seat to no one.:)

John Clary
Greer, SC
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u346/jconln/HPIM0372-2.jpg
Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
SDC member since 1975

Huck
07-04-2009, 08:49 AM
Stude and Cadillac engines were discussed at a SDC Intl. tech forum, 2002 or was it the 2007? Someone asked the panel, comprised of old time Studebaker employees, if it the similarities of the engines was due to industrial espionage. The answer was NO, as engineers used to share information, back then. Wow, what has happened to us, eh? Happy Independance Day/Independants(Drive Your Stude Day) Huck in Detroit

Gary Hildebrandt

R2Andrea
07-04-2009, 12:11 PM
It was (and still is) common practice for companies to buy competitors products for benchmarking. Many years ago, a machineist in the Engineering Machine Shop said that during a tour of people from GM, one of the engineers made the comment that he thought "you did a better job on our engine (Cadlilac V8) than we did".

R2Andy

Kdancy
07-04-2009, 01:55 PM
quote:Originally posted by barnlark

Sounds about right, Mike. Much written on that subject. Not sure of the accuracy, but this one from Consumer Guide:

"Studebaker had a terrific follow-up to blockbluster 1950: a modern new V-8. Like the trendsetting 1949 Oldsmobile and Cadillac engines, it was a light, compact, and efficient overhead-valve design. "


Which Stude V-8 were they referring to? :)

hotrodstude
07-04-2009, 10:22 PM
the real stude v-8.not the cheeby

comatus
07-05-2009, 10:10 AM
On the "Eisenhower administration" question: According to the 1956 edition of Collier's, cover titled "Report on the Republicans," there was widespread speculation that Ike would not seek a second term, due to health issues and the possibility of 'anointing' a candidate who could then have two terms. The top candidates are pictured and bio'ed. The president of Studebaker is one of the Republican candidates.

The administration steered military contracts to Studebaker, a common practice then, to provide a steadier revenue stream. Those contracts were quickly and unceremoniously cancelled in the administration following Eisenhower's, nameless here. Also, Eisenhower advisers "forced" Studebaker into the Curtiss-Wright management agreement.

The unloading of (other firms') underfunded pension obligations onto the federal budget occurred after Studebaker's closing. The president of the UAW local spoke at length about this at the 1996 International. Studebaker's only alleged skullduggery was a late-game change in the years of service required to be vested in the benefit pool. Those who were fully vested received their full pension, from the pension fund. There were several far-reaching laws passed after this, based on the specter of a major company closing with insufficient funds for pensions, and although this legislation was blamed on Studebaker it did not in fact apply.

I consider it stunning that current public conversations on pension raiding, and pension-fund bankruptcy as a business strategem, do not cite the Studebaker experience, or the impact of laws passed in the following years. Like most cases of Unintended Consequences, it's irrelevant, nothing's the same, everything is different now, we don't want to to hear it and la-la-la I can't hear you.