PDA

View Full Version : 57 Golden Hawk 400 Questions



candbstudebakers
06-17-2009, 07:40 PM
How many 400's were built? what colors? were they all with power Windows and power seats? were only the 400's with power windows and seats? is there a registry for the 400"s? I might have one but tomorrow I will order a production order...Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/IM000994-1-1.jpg

Lark Parker
06-17-2009, 08:06 PM
Email sent.

LP

rockne10
06-17-2009, 08:06 PM
Bob,
That's only five questions.[:o)]

JDP
06-17-2009, 08:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by candbstudebakers

How many 400's were built? what colors? were they all with power Windows and power seats? were only the 400's with power windows and seats? is there a registry for the 400"s? I might have one but tomorrow I will order a production order...Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/IM000994-1-1.jpg


Nope, I had a 57 Golden with power everything, but it was not a 400. The all leather, Packard Hawk-like interior is the biggest give away.

JDP/Maryland

chinaadoptions
06-17-2009, 09:03 PM
I have a 57 golden hawk with a 400 interior, however the experts say my serial number is to low. Gee, perhaps it is a prototype.

studegary
06-17-2009, 09:21 PM
My own 1957 Golden Hawk had power seat and power windows, but no leather seats and was not a 400.
There are 400 model clones around. You need to check the serial number, even if it has leather seats.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

bams50
06-17-2009, 09:22 PM
http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/images/smilies/ttiwwop.gif

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag3-1.gif

JDP
06-17-2009, 09:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by studegary

My own 1957 Golden Hawk had power seat and power windows, but no leather seats and was not a 400.
There are 400 model clones around. You need to check the serial number, even if it has leather seats.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer



I bought Packard Hawk seat and carpets from a bone yard. You have no idea how heavy the factory Packard Hawk carpets and padding are.

JDP/Maryland

studegary
06-17-2009, 09:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP


quote:Originally posted by studegary

My own 1957 Golden Hawk had power seat and power windows, but no leather seats and was not a 400.
There are 400 model clones around. You need to check the serial number, even if it has leather seats.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer



I bought Packard Hawk seat and carpets from a bone yard. You have no idea how heavy the factory Packard Hawk carpets and padding are.

JDP/Maryland



Having worked on more than one original Packard Hawk, I think that I do <G>.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

rockne10
06-17-2009, 09:47 PM
http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/images/smilies/ttiwwop.gif

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/402026477_004fb77e27_b.jpg

Aero Blue
06-17-2009, 10:40 PM
Bob, 10 Golden Hawk 400 show cars were built Feb.12 & 13th, 1957. All ten were alike. They were Tiara Gold with Arctic White fins and side grille inserts. All had white leather interiors with white dash boards. They had power windows but not power seats, aleast mine doesn't. Two of the original show cars are known to exist. 41 Procduction 400s were built, two were shipped back to Studebaker Experimental Engineering. They were built on August 6, 1957. Seven of the Production 400s are known to exist. The Production 400s came in all the standard Golden Hawk color combinations including some were solid colors. Two tones were painted same as show cars with the side grilles the same color as the fins. Beside the white leather interiors, tan leather was available. Tom Lawlis of Plainfield, Indiana is the keeper of the 400 registry and is the owner of the 22nd production 400 and is currently restoring it. The February 1991 Turning Wheels had a Fred Fox report on the 400s.

8E45E
06-17-2009, 11:12 PM
You could have also showed the back of it!!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/402026482_6c13c337d5_o.jpg

Craig

barnlark
06-17-2009, 11:24 PM
What an incredible interior.

Warren Webb
06-17-2009, 11:54 PM
The armrests resemble the ones used later on the Avanti....are they?? I agree with Dave, that interior is priceless.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

candbstudebakers
06-18-2009, 12:03 AM
Mine is nothing like those in the picture, I know the interior was leather this one has black more like the stuff used in the 63 GT pattern and it had until today some s... chevy buckets but they now lay in the dirt behind the car, when I remover them I saw this funny metal bracket bolted under the drive side of the seat so I figured it was for the power seat also there was a factory wire running down that side to about the same area. but one never knows this long after they were built , this is also a black car but was white original,now also has a full flow replacement block and set up like an R-2 on the hawks, there will be pictures soon, will call tomorrow and order the production order, thanks for all the answers...Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/IM000994-1-1.jpg

Transtar56
06-18-2009, 06:49 AM
The 57 Golden Hawk I bought from JDP had power windows and seats,dual rear antennas,power steering and brakes,very well dressed car for 1957. And all that stuff worked too.

Michidan
06-18-2009, 08:00 AM
Is there any story or reason behind the choice of "400" to signify the special edition? Or maybe they just pulled a number out of the sky.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/loraxdan66/signature3.jpg
www.studebakerhardtop.com

BobPalma
06-18-2009, 08:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by Michidan

Is there any story or reason behind the choice of "400" to signify the special edition? Or maybe they just pulled a number out of the sky.


:) Best [u]guess,</u> Dan, would be a carry-over of the moniker "400" from the premium Packard of the year earlier; the 1956 senior-series Packard "400" 2-door hardtop.

"The 400" was (is?) an exclusive group of wealthy families, although someone else will have to fill in the details as to how one becomes a member of the group. I claim no affiliation.

Anyway, that's where Packard got the name. The Studebaker-Packard Corporation wasn't using it on any 1957 products, so it made sense to use it on a premium car in the 1957 corporate line-up.

After all, it was already well-known for denoting a premium Studebaker-Packard automobile. :DBP

clonelark
06-18-2009, 08:59 AM
If it turns out to be a 400, it would be interesting to see what dealer sold it, I've been looking for a Mark VIII Lincoln LSC 93-98, i check craigs list often. they are all over Florida especially Southern Florida, several in Dallas Austin, La Calif, Palm springs (Never checked Beverly Hills) Luxery cars are where luxery people live, but some get sold and then they are all over the place. Bob let us know where it was sold new, and where you picked it up?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2889kr8.jpg

BobPalma
06-18-2009, 09:08 AM
:) There's no secret to determining the authenticity of a 1957 Golden Hawk 400.

As Aero Blue (Howe Clark) indicated above, SDCer Tom Lawlis of Plainfield IN is the 1957 Golden Hawk guru. Tom has all 51 1957 Golden Hawk 400 serial numbers and other production details about each of those serial numbers.

Tom may be contacted to verify a car, but he is not on the forum. The Serial Numbers are intentionally unpublished, to avoid people building clones, which would be easy to do, and representing them as authentic production 400s. :DBP

Michidan
06-18-2009, 09:24 AM
Bob, that sounds perfectly plausible on the 400 name. I forgot packard had used it. Cool, I'm glad I asked!

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/loraxdan66/signature3.jpg
www.studebakerhardtop.com

nibbs53
06-18-2009, 10:36 AM
OK HER'S THREE PIC'S.

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv280/hisnibbs/new%20home/movercar003.jpg

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv280/hisnibbs/new%20home/movercar001.jpg

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv280/hisnibbs/new%20home/movercar002.jpg

big jim
06-18-2009, 08:41 PM
Also see forum topic 8-17-2007

studegary
06-18-2009, 08:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by clonelark

If it turns out to be a 400, it would be interesting to see what dealer sold it, I've been looking for a Mark VIII Lincoln LSC 93-98, i check craigs list often. they are all over Florida especially Southern Florida, several in Dallas Austin, La Calif, Palm springs (Never checked Beverly Hills) Luxery cars are where luxery people live, but some get sold and then they are all over the place. Bob let us know where it was sold new, and where you picked it up?



Many Lincolns, Cadillacs, etc. were sold new in the North and retired to the South and Southwest.

I, and Bob A., also like those Mark VIIIs, especially LSCs.

When they were new, I went into a dealer just north of South Bend, but still in Indiana. He had a new LSC on the showroom floor. That would have been 1997, since that is when the SDC International Convention was in South Bend and the reason that I would have been there.

Within the past month, I was looking for a condo in Fishkill, NY. I found a parking space near the unit that I was loking for. It turned out that I was parked next to a very nice Mark VIII LSC.

A while ago, a guy was running an ad in Old Cars Weekly for a very low mileage, original owner, Mark VIII (LSC, I think). I suppose that you already knew about that one.

There are quite a few of those Mark VIIIs around here, but not many of them are LSCs. The trick is finding one that is still in good shape at a fair price.


Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

Studebaker Wheel
06-19-2009, 12:51 AM
Send the serial number to me. I researched this many years ago and have all the “400” serial numbers. You should also be aware too that there were a fair number of specially built '57 Golden Hawks ordered by officials of Curtis Wright who, as you will recall, had management responsibilities for Studebaker at that time. These Hawks were built with special colors, upholstery as well as options and accessories. I also have records of most of these.

As for the 400 designation this came from New York City in the last few decades of the 19th Century when Mrs. Caroline Astor was the absolute "queen" of New York society. She was upset at the nouveau riche who she felt were trying to infiltrate into the old money caste system in NY at the time. She and few of her cronies made up a list, which ultimately included 400 members, of the old monied families and only these select individuals were to be welcomed at the various social functions held among the elite. Some have claimed also that this was the maximum number of people that could be accommodated in her ballroom.

Therefore the use of the "400" designation can be said to represent limited only to a few of the wealthiest.

I thought everyone knew this!?


Richard Quinn
editor: Antique Studebaker Review

candbstudebakers
06-19-2009, 07:51 AM
Richard , I know this is not a 400 as I talked to Tom yesterday about it but here is the number 6102812 it is black but looks like it was original white, power windows and power sear I think, the seat is gone but there is a funny bracket under the seat area and a power wire leading to this area, thanks for any info...Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/IM000994-1-1.jpg

Studebaker Wheel
06-20-2009, 01:07 PM
Bob; I did not make a copy of your car's production order when I did the research many years ago but had some on both sides of it. Guess you will have to wait til you get one from the museum.

When I was checking my files I found a copy of a document that I had forgotten about. It details the features on the '57 Golden Hawk that Roy Hurley of Curtiss Wright special ordered. There was a Hurley Hawk! I wonder if it has survived?

Richard Quinn
editor: Antique Studebaker Review

chinaadoptions
06-20-2009, 07:33 PM
What is the serial number for the Hurley Hawk?

StudeRich
07-27-2015, 04:05 PM
I wonder if all the "Official" GH 400's had the Simulated Spoke Type Wheel Covers that were normally optional on a GH?
As on the Show Car in the actual Photo superimposed in the brochure.

Well lets see, Chrysler already had the 300 tied up, what's left: 400 & 500, and it's not an "Indy" Car. :D

rkapteyn
12-10-2016, 05:59 PM
Richard
Heman Hersh from Sasco told me once that the 1958 Packard Hawks were called Hurley Hawks at the factory.

Robert Kapteyn

JoeHall
12-10-2016, 06:19 PM
Richard
Heman Hersh from Sasco told me once that the 1958 Packard Hawks were called Hurley Hawks at the factory.

Robert Kapteyn
AFAIK there was only one Hurley Hawk. There was a TW article on it a few years ago. I saw it in the mid 1980s, in a shed in NE. I told Ed Reynolds about it several years later, and he then tracked it down and kept in touch with the owner for several more years, who did not want to sell. Last update Ed gave me was maybe five years ago. Someone had bought it, and Ed was confident the car would be restored. It was the exact same car as was in TW, and what I recall best is that it had 56J fins that were rounded on the forward end. The body tag on the firewall had no numbers, but was stenciled, "SHOW JOB" with the same stencil used for regular body tags.

rkapteyn
12-10-2016, 09:56 PM
One of my two Packard Hawks has a tag like that "SHOW JOB"
Maybe one of the factory workers or Packard Hawk experts can chime in on the nickname "HURLEY HAWK" for the Packard Hawk.
http://autoweek.com/article/1958-packard-hawk-50-year-old-memory
http://ateupwithmotor.com/model-histories/studebaker-lark-super-lark/
Robert Kapteyn

BobPalma
12-11-2016, 06:25 AM
I wonder if all the "Official" GH 400's had the Simulated Spoke Type Wheel Covers that were normally optional on a GH?
As on the Show Car in the actual Photo superimposed in the brochure.

Well lets see, Chrysler already had the 300 tied up, what's left: 400 & 500, and it's not an "Indy" Car. :D

:) Rich, I'd be more inclined to think the 400 moniker flowed from The Packard 400 name that was no longer being used as of the 1957 model year, since the two companies were now firmly intertwined as a corporation. 'Seems like I've seen that in official print somewhere but cannot place it. :cool: BP

prescottstude
12-12-2016, 09:03 AM
One of my two Packard Hawks has a tag like that "SHOW JOB"
Maybe one of the factory workers or Packard Hawk experts can chime in on the nickname "HURLEY HAWK" for the Packard Hawk.
http://autoweek.com/article/1958-packard-hawk-50-year-old-memory
http://ateupwithmotor.com/model-histories/studebaker-lark-super-lark/
Robert Kapteyn Mr, Kapteyn As I understand it, the term Hurley Hawk was used as a slang term for the Packard Hawk , as the car was ordered in to production by Mr. Hurley after he saw the finished one off hawk commissioned by him after returning from a European business trip..There really was a very limited market for such a car then, and the company would never have built it unless Mr. Hurley insisted upon it...I believe that Mr. Hurley was a WW1 fighter pilot and the idea was to make the car seem to be like a cockpit of that era,hence the appearance of leather around the beltline..Remember that Curtis Wright came from the merger of Glen Curtis and the Wright brothers and that Stude built a hell of a lot of CW bomber engines during WW2 Hope your nhaving a good holiday season and look forward to seeing you again in South Bend this spring..Happy Holidays

bezhawk
12-12-2016, 10:18 AM
There are 2 distinctly different things when referring to a Hurley Hawk. 1 in the personal car he had customized for his personal use. and the other is referring to the styling of the Packard Hawk. The first one is the Hawk with the 58 starliner top, and 56 Golden Hawk fins, and the Mercedes side vents.
See the OCT 2001 turning wheels

8E45E
12-12-2016, 01:32 PM
There are 2 distinctly different things when referring to a Hurley Hawk. 1 in the personal car he had customized for his personal use. and the other is referring to the styling of the Packard Hawk. The first one is the Hawk with the 58 starliner top, and 56 Golden Hawk fins, and the Mercedes side vents.
See the OCT 2001 turning wheels

The assembly line workers did refer to production Packard Hawks as 'Hurley Hawks' when it came to installing the hood, trunklid, and the additional Packard-only trim. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?10191-Packard-Hawk-Appreciation-from-AutoWeek

I doubt that car you describe is the 'Hurley Hawk' as it was built in 1961: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?77818-Golden-Hawk-Prototype I recall in the TW article, it used 1961 Lark tail lights turned on end.

Craig

JoeHall
12-12-2016, 04:01 PM
The assembly line workers did refer to production Packard Hawks as 'Hurley Hawks' when it came to installing the hood, trunklid, and the additional Packard-only trim. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?10191-Packard-Hawk-Appreciation-from-AutoWeek

I doubt that car you describe is the 'Hurley Hawk' as it was built in 1961: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?77818-Golden-Hawk-Prototype I recall in the TW article, it used 1961 Lark tail lights turned on end.

Craig
I can assure you, the Hawk I saw in a shed in Hastings, NE in the mid 1980s, is the same Hawk for sale around 1970, in Kearney, NE, per the ad in the link you provided. Kearney and Hastings are 58 miles apart, per MapQuest.
Though the ad says the car is a 1961, I am thinking the TW article said it was designed around 1957.

prescottstude
12-12-2016, 04:04 PM
There are 2 distinctly different things when referring to a Hurley Hawk. 1 in the personal car he had customized for his personal use. and the other is referring to the styling of the Packard Hawk. The first one is the Hawk with the 58 starliner top, and 56 Golden Hawk fins, and the Mercedes side vents.
See the OCT 2001 turning wheels Brad As I understand it, the 58 starliner that you are referring to has been incorrectly identified as a packard hawk The car was actually designed and built by Paul McKeean (sp) a young designer hired by egbert in 1961 He built the car out of existing parts to show his ideas and how existing parts might be used to produce something else This car was not a early packard hawk styling study as was stated ..Hurley Hawks are Packard Hawks all 588 of them Hurley was long gone from studebaker when the McKeean car was built

8E45E
12-12-2016, 04:49 PM
I can assure you, the Hawk I saw in a shed in Hastings, NE in the mid 1980s, is the same Hawk for sale around 1970, in Kearney, NE, per the ad in the link you provided. Kearney and Hastings are 58 miles apart, per MapQuest.
Though the ad says the car is a 1961, I am thinking the TW article said it was designed around 1957.

It may have been designed in late 1957 as per the 1958 J-body roof, but may not have actually been built until a couple of years later after the '61's came out, unless one can find proof the Lark lenses were a later retrofit.

Craig

rkapteyn
12-13-2016, 09:43 PM
Graig is correct.
The Hawk with the 1958 hardtop roof was built as a possible redesigned Hawk in 1961.
It was for sale in Iowa but it not the original bastardized 1957 Golden Hawk built for Mr.Hurley.
The side vents came from an Italian car that Hurley had seen and wanted a car like that.
Read the links that Graig provided.

Robert Kapteyn

JoeHall
12-13-2016, 11:17 PM
Graig is correct.
The Hawk with the 1958 hardtop roof was built as a possible redesigned Hawk in 1961.
It was for sale in Iowa but it not the original bastardized 1957 Golden Hawk built for Mr.Hurley.
The side vents came from an Italian car that Hurley had seen and wanted a car like that.
Read the links that Graig provided.

Robert Kapteyn
I did read the links Craig provided, and the car in the for sale ad, dated 1970, in Kearney, NE, is the same car I saw 58 miles from there, in the mid 1980s. Other than that, I know nothing, as to year of manufacture, etc. But one thing I do know, is it is the same car as in the ad, and on the subject cover of TW. Craig speculates on whether it is the same car, but he did not lay his eyes on it, as I did. SO I have no idea what he is basing that statement on, I know what I saw. Ask Ed Reynolds, he may be able to shed some light on it.