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royvaldez
08-19-2006, 12:24 PM
Hello, Is it illegal or legal to sell a title only on a car I am parting out?

studeclunker
08-19-2006, 12:35 PM
If you are speaking about pure legality? No it is'nt legal. A title is for one particular car only. However, what the DMV doesn't know...;)

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

studeclunker
08-19-2006, 12:35 PM
If you are speaking about pure legality? No it is'nt legal. A title is for one particular car only. However, what the DMV doesn't know...;)

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

Roscomacaw
08-19-2006, 01:09 PM
I wonder if it would be legal if you sold a part of the car (ONE part) with the title? Probably a stretch, but hey - so you had to replace a few things! [}:)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Roscomacaw
08-19-2006, 01:09 PM
I wonder if it would be legal if you sold a part of the car (ONE part) with the title? Probably a stretch, but hey - so you had to replace a few things! [}:)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

rockne10
08-19-2006, 01:12 PM
Preferably the manufacturer's VIN plate. I think that would make it legal.

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
33 Rockne 10
51 Commander Starlight
53 Commander Starlight
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/51x2.jpg
previously: 63 Cruiser, 62 Regal VI, 60 VI convertible, 50 LandCruiser

rockne10
08-19-2006, 01:12 PM
Preferably the manufacturer's VIN plate. I think that would make it legal.

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
33 Rockne 10
51 Commander Starlight
53 Commander Starlight
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/51x2.jpg
previously: 63 Cruiser, 62 Regal VI, 60 VI convertible, 50 LandCruiser

Guido
08-19-2006, 01:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by rockne10

Preferably the manufacturer's VIN plate. I think that would make it legal.

As Brad points out, a title is probably of little value if not accompanied by a matching serial tag. If one has a matched pair, then they could swap the tag and use the title.

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond & Louisa, Va.

Guido
08-19-2006, 01:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by rockne10

Preferably the manufacturer's VIN plate. I think that would make it legal.

As Brad points out, a title is probably of little value if not accompanied by a matching serial tag. If one has a matched pair, then they could swap the tag and use the title.

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond & Louisa, Va.

KGlowacky
08-19-2006, 02:28 PM
I was told by a DMV employee(years ago) that is is illegal to remove a vin plate(rivets/welds) and sell it with a title, but you could sell the/a part of a car that contains the vin # (as it is then a car)and that was legal. He said the law is YOU CAN NOT REMOVE THE VIN NUMBER. With that said I believe as long as the car is in your name and legal, you can do what you feel comfortable with, with the understanding of the law. Keep in mind if you sell one and it is placed on a stolen car you may have some responsability. I removed mine to get the body dipped and I don't have any worry about placing it back on my car, but by the strickest of the law it could be considered illegal, go figure. Good Luck.

KGlowacky
08-19-2006, 02:28 PM
I was told by a DMV employee(years ago) that is is illegal to remove a vin plate(rivets/welds) and sell it with a title, but you could sell the/a part of a car that contains the vin # (as it is then a car)and that was legal. He said the law is YOU CAN NOT REMOVE THE VIN NUMBER. With that said I believe as long as the car is in your name and legal, you can do what you feel comfortable with, with the understanding of the law. Keep in mind if you sell one and it is placed on a stolen car you may have some responsability. I removed mine to get the body dipped and I don't have any worry about placing it back on my car, but by the strickest of the law it could be considered illegal, go figure. Good Luck.

Roscomacaw
08-19-2006, 02:37 PM
I had a Pick-a-Part yard give me grief over taking the body tag off a Stude. Didn't matter that I could show them the serial# tag was still in place on the door jamb. To this fella I was stealing it's VIN plate![B)]

I can honestly say that in my 33 years of Studebakering, I've never swapped Serial# plates to "recreate" a Stude. I know folks that have, but I never did. And yet I COULD go along with doing such to bring a car back to life so long as it wasn't stolen.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Roscomacaw
08-19-2006, 02:37 PM
I had a Pick-a-Part yard give me grief over taking the body tag off a Stude. Didn't matter that I could show them the serial# tag was still in place on the door jamb. To this fella I was stealing it's VIN plate![B)]

I can honestly say that in my 33 years of Studebakering, I've never swapped Serial# plates to "recreate" a Stude. I know folks that have, but I never did. And yet I COULD go along with doing such to bring a car back to life so long as it wasn't stolen.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

53k
08-19-2006, 07:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by rockne10

Preferably the manufacturer's VIN plate. I think that would make it legal.

Brad Johnson

I put a title and VIN plate off a '59 4WD truck on ebay. They cancelled it the next day and gave me a warning.

[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/64%20Daytona%20Convertible/Copy%20of%20DaytonaConvert7-20-06.JPG[/img=right]

Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

53k
08-19-2006, 07:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by rockne10

Preferably the manufacturer's VIN plate. I think that would make it legal.

Brad Johnson

I put a title and VIN plate off a '59 4WD truck on ebay. They cancelled it the next day and gave me a warning.

[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/64%20Daytona%20Convertible/Copy%20of%20DaytonaConvert7-20-06.JPG[/img=right]

Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

tstclr
08-19-2006, 09:17 PM
There was a COPO Camaro sitting in a junk yard nearby a few years ago. One guy came along and got the dash and VIN, another got a VIN from somewhere else on the car and apparently there are two MINT COPO Camaro's in the world with the same VIN! :D

Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

tstclr
08-19-2006, 09:17 PM
There was a COPO Camaro sitting in a junk yard nearby a few years ago. One guy came along and got the dash and VIN, another got a VIN from somewhere else on the car and apparently there are two MINT COPO Camaro's in the world with the same VIN! :D

Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

bob40
08-19-2006, 10:11 PM
Transfering vin's and any other tags including title papers from one vehicle to another is illegal in most states.Any vehicle this is done to
is a clone,fake,fraud.

bob40
08-19-2006, 10:11 PM
Transfering vin's and any other tags including title papers from one vehicle to another is illegal in most states.Any vehicle this is done to
is a clone,fake,fraud.

nm dude
08-19-2006, 10:33 PM
Interesting article entitled "Cloned Collectors" in the Aug. 14, 2006 issue of Autoweek.

nm dude
08-19-2006, 10:33 PM
Interesting article entitled "Cloned Collectors" in the Aug. 14, 2006 issue of Autoweek.

imported_n/a
08-19-2006, 10:37 PM
I wouldn't offer a title and vin out on the open market, no way. But, if it is someone you know well enough, maybe you can sell 'em the whole car, and let 'em take only what they need. Laws strictly prohibiting swapping ID tags were a blanket solution for a specific problem: transferring vins from an unrepairable,totalled late-model car onto an identical car in good condition that was stolen, so that the thief can re-register it. It doesn't really take into account the restoration and rebuilding of antique cars or trucks that may be completely disassembled and rebuilt, using major parts such as the body shell from one car to restore another one. But, I can see that there could be instances nowadays, of valuable restored cars being stolen, and retitled with the tags from a rough one. I won't say absolutely don't do it, but that a person needs to exercise good judgement. If you find you need to replace the cowl or whatever on your car, and transfer the tags onto the replacement, do a nice job of it so it is undetectable. Thereafter, the less said about it, the better.

imported_n/a
08-19-2006, 10:37 PM
I wouldn't offer a title and vin out on the open market, no way. But, if it is someone you know well enough, maybe you can sell 'em the whole car, and let 'em take only what they need. Laws strictly prohibiting swapping ID tags were a blanket solution for a specific problem: transferring vins from an unrepairable,totalled late-model car onto an identical car in good condition that was stolen, so that the thief can re-register it. It doesn't really take into account the restoration and rebuilding of antique cars or trucks that may be completely disassembled and rebuilt, using major parts such as the body shell from one car to restore another one. But, I can see that there could be instances nowadays, of valuable restored cars being stolen, and retitled with the tags from a rough one. I won't say absolutely don't do it, but that a person needs to exercise good judgement. If you find you need to replace the cowl or whatever on your car, and transfer the tags onto the replacement, do a nice job of it so it is undetectable. Thereafter, the less said about it, the better.

imported_n/a
08-19-2006, 10:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by nm dude

Interesting article entitled "Cloned Collectors" in the Aug. 14, 2006 issue of Autoweek.
I'll have to take a look a this. I sincerely hope it isn't the usual Alarmist Journalism that is so common these days. You probably know that Studebaker and Pontiac enthusiasts have this in common: both makes have production orders available to them for at least the 50's and 60's models. This goes a long way toward keeping the particularly rare and valuable cars fairly authentic.

imported_n/a
08-19-2006, 10:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by nm dude

Interesting article entitled "Cloned Collectors" in the Aug. 14, 2006 issue of Autoweek.
I'll have to take a look a this. I sincerely hope it isn't the usual Alarmist Journalism that is so common these days. You probably know that Studebaker and Pontiac enthusiasts have this in common: both makes have production orders available to them for at least the 50's and 60's models. This goes a long way toward keeping the particularly rare and valuable cars fairly authentic.

Starlite51
08-19-2006, 10:56 PM
if everyone fessed up half of the CA car collectors/ hobbists are felons in the eyes of the California DMV ...[}:)]

under reporting Sales Tax on car sales , [8D]

creative vin plate transfers, (got rossette rivets in your tool box go to jail..)

missing title statements

even noted rod builder ... Boyd Coddington got arrested & fined and got off with community service instead of jail time for using out of state titles on his ground up cars [8)] instead of getting a BAR special construction number -- of which I believe they only issue 500 numbers a year..not many for a car crazy state of California

the next big challenge is how to get VIN numbers on all the new reproduction '57 Chevys & '69 Camaros they are making..... you can bet there is gonna be some fancy VIN manuvers to get the old vin plates put on those new bodies .....[8)]

Starlite51
08-19-2006, 10:56 PM
if everyone fessed up half of the CA car collectors/ hobbists are felons in the eyes of the California DMV ...[}:)]

under reporting Sales Tax on car sales , [8D]

creative vin plate transfers, (got rossette rivets in your tool box go to jail..)

missing title statements

even noted rod builder ... Boyd Coddington got arrested & fined and got off with community service instead of jail time for using out of state titles on his ground up cars [8)] instead of getting a BAR special construction number -- of which I believe they only issue 500 numbers a year..not many for a car crazy state of California

the next big challenge is how to get VIN numbers on all the new reproduction '57 Chevys & '69 Camaros they are making..... you can bet there is gonna be some fancy VIN manuvers to get the old vin plates put on those new bodies .....[8)]

studeclunker
08-20-2006, 04:57 AM
Technically speaking... the vin and body tags belong to the body of the car. The body tub. That doesn't include the entire chassis, doors or any interior components. DMV assumes that one won't go to the trouble to switch all of that.[8)] Like I said, what the DMV doesn't know, who cares?;)

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

studeclunker
08-20-2006, 04:57 AM
Technically speaking... the vin and body tags belong to the body of the car. The body tub. That doesn't include the entire chassis, doors or any interior components. DMV assumes that one won't go to the trouble to switch all of that.[8)] Like I said, what the DMV doesn't know, who cares?;)

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

65cruiser
08-20-2006, 07:29 AM
They've already gotten around that. Those cars come with an "original cowl". So, it no doubt has the original VIN number. With those 57s, you are just restoring a vehicle from what was left of a cowl. Still considered a vehicle.


quote:[i]the next big challenge is how to get VIN numbers on all the new reproduction '57 Chevys & '69 Camaros they are making..... you can bet there is gonna be some fancy VIN manuvers to get the old vin plates put on those new bodies .....[8)]


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

65cruiser
08-20-2006, 07:29 AM
They've already gotten around that. Those cars come with an "original cowl". So, it no doubt has the original VIN number. With those 57s, you are just restoring a vehicle from what was left of a cowl. Still considered a vehicle.


quote:[i]the next big challenge is how to get VIN numbers on all the new reproduction '57 Chevys & '69 Camaros they are making..... you can bet there is gonna be some fancy VIN manuvers to get the old vin plates put on those new bodies .....[8)]


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

KGlowacky
08-20-2006, 08:07 AM
Just to clarify the Boyd Cottingham and out of state titles, it is my understanding the illegal act was not getting a title from an out of state title company or swapping vin's, it was understating the value of the car when transferring it into Cal. which lowered the tax owed to Cal. It was tax fraud. I know many people who get titles from one of these title companies and have no problem as long as it is done legally and honestly. The owner of the title company that Boyd used is now serving time in Cal. for tax fraud not tilte/vin laws.

KGlowacky
08-20-2006, 08:07 AM
Just to clarify the Boyd Cottingham and out of state titles, it is my understanding the illegal act was not getting a title from an out of state title company or swapping vin's, it was understating the value of the car when transferring it into Cal. which lowered the tax owed to Cal. It was tax fraud. I know many people who get titles from one of these title companies and have no problem as long as it is done legally and honestly. The owner of the title company that Boyd used is now serving time in Cal. for tax fraud not tilte/vin laws.

Starlite51
08-20-2006, 11:13 AM
CA DMV has been closed mouth on the CODDINGTON case ....

but this might shed some light
_______________________________________________________________

Car builder to admit DMV fraud
Boyd Coddington, of La Habra and Discovery Channel, allegedly turned in fake hot-rod titles.

By ANDREW GALVIN
The Orange County Register

Boyd Coddington, a La Habra builder of custom cars and star of the Discovery Channel's "American Hot Rod" show, is expected next week to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of submitting counterfeit vehicle titles to the state Department of Motor Vehicles.

The allegations against Coddington present a window on a "systemic problem with title fraud" within the hot-rod industry that has cost California hundreds of millions of dollars in registration fees, said Robert Morgester, a deputy state attorney general who is prosecuting the case.

After having investigated for four years, Morgester estimates that 70,000 custom-built cars are registered in California based on fraudulent out-of-state titles.

These phony titles misidentify or undervalue the vehicles - stating, for example, that the cars are much older than they actually are, allowing owners to avoid registration fees and smog restrictions.

Some hot-rod enthusiasts have disputed Morgester's findings, saying that only a small percentage of hot rods carry illegal titles.

However, Coddington's attorney, Chris Wing, said Morgester's estimate of 70,000 illegally registered vehicles is "probably conservative."

Wing will appear Wednesday in Sacramento County Superior Court, where he is expected to plead guilty on Coddington's behalf to a single count of making a false statement to the DMV.

Under a plea agreement with prosecutors, Coddington will likely be ordered to pay $3,000 in restitution and perform 160 hours of community service.

Coddington didn't return a call seeking comment.

According to court papers filed by Morgester, Coddington obtained three counterfeit Pennsylvania and New York titles for 1930s-era Ford automobiles, then presented the titles to Cherrie Fowler, a DMV-licensed verifier. Fowler then submitted the fake titles to the DMV's Placentia office, the papers say. The DMV issued legitimate California titles based on the phony out-of-state titles.

The California titles were assigned to brand-new, Coddington-built vehicles that were stylized replicas of 1930s-era Fords. Coddington used the titles to sell the vehicles or award them to contest winners, the papers say.

As part of his community service, Coddington is expected to help educate the hot-rod community about the problem of illegally registered vehicles.

"What Boyd wants to do is he wants to explain to everybody in the business, because he's kind of a high-profile guy, how you can do this legally," Wing said.

Morgester called for the DMV to offer an amnesty period in which owners of illegally registered vehicles could rectify the situation without facing criminal charges.

Morgester also said that the DMV needs to change its titling procedures so that it can better catch phony out-of-state titles.

Bill Branch, a DMV spokesman, said his agency has "tightened the process to identify vehicles using 'titling mills' or out-of-state registration."

Vehicles last registered in certain states must now have their VIN numbers verified by the California Highway Patrol, Branch said.

Starlite51
08-20-2006, 11:13 AM
CA DMV has been closed mouth on the CODDINGTON case ....

but this might shed some light
_______________________________________________________________

Car builder to admit DMV fraud
Boyd Coddington, of La Habra and Discovery Channel, allegedly turned in fake hot-rod titles.

By ANDREW GALVIN
The Orange County Register

Boyd Coddington, a La Habra builder of custom cars and star of the Discovery Channel's "American Hot Rod" show, is expected next week to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of submitting counterfeit vehicle titles to the state Department of Motor Vehicles.

The allegations against Coddington present a window on a "systemic problem with title fraud" within the hot-rod industry that has cost California hundreds of millions of dollars in registration fees, said Robert Morgester, a deputy state attorney general who is prosecuting the case.

After having investigated for four years, Morgester estimates that 70,000 custom-built cars are registered in California based on fraudulent out-of-state titles.

These phony titles misidentify or undervalue the vehicles - stating, for example, that the cars are much older than they actually are, allowing owners to avoid registration fees and smog restrictions.

Some hot-rod enthusiasts have disputed Morgester's findings, saying that only a small percentage of hot rods carry illegal titles.

However, Coddington's attorney, Chris Wing, said Morgester's estimate of 70,000 illegally registered vehicles is "probably conservative."

Wing will appear Wednesday in Sacramento County Superior Court, where he is expected to plead guilty on Coddington's behalf to a single count of making a false statement to the DMV.

Under a plea agreement with prosecutors, Coddington will likely be ordered to pay $3,000 in restitution and perform 160 hours of community service.

Coddington didn't return a call seeking comment.

According to court papers filed by Morgester, Coddington obtained three counterfeit Pennsylvania and New York titles for 1930s-era Ford automobiles, then presented the titles to Cherrie Fowler, a DMV-licensed verifier. Fowler then submitted the fake titles to the DMV's Placentia office, the papers say. The DMV issued legitimate California titles based on the phony out-of-state titles.

The California titles were assigned to brand-new, Coddington-built vehicles that were stylized replicas of 1930s-era Fords. Coddington used the titles to sell the vehicles or award them to contest winners, the papers say.

As part of his community service, Coddington is expected to help educate the hot-rod community about the problem of illegally registered vehicles.

"What Boyd wants to do is he wants to explain to everybody in the business, because he's kind of a high-profile guy, how you can do this legally," Wing said.

Morgester called for the DMV to offer an amnesty period in which owners of illegally registered vehicles could rectify the situation without facing criminal charges.

Morgester also said that the DMV needs to change its titling procedures so that it can better catch phony out-of-state titles.

Bill Branch, a DMV spokesman, said his agency has "tightened the process to identify vehicles using 'titling mills' or out-of-state registration."

Vehicles last registered in certain states must now have their VIN numbers verified by the California Highway Patrol, Branch said.

studegary
08-20-2006, 12:06 PM
I don't know how they used "New York titles for 1930s-era Ford automobiles." New York State did not, and does not, issue title documents for pre-1973 cars. They may have used New York ownership documents, such as a transferable registration, but not a "title."

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

studegary
08-20-2006, 12:06 PM
I don't know how they used "New York titles for 1930s-era Ford automobiles." New York State did not, and does not, issue title documents for pre-1973 cars. They may have used New York ownership documents, such as a transferable registration, but not a "title."

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

imported_n/a
08-20-2006, 12:14 PM
This case shows how Government gone wrong can go all out to put the screws to someone after the fact, when the right way, and the easy way, would've been to have had a better(friendly) set of regulations and procedures for registering these type of cars in the first place! It is no wonder people often adopt a "they screw us, so we screw them" attitude. [:0]

imported_n/a
08-20-2006, 12:14 PM
This case shows how Government gone wrong can go all out to put the screws to someone after the fact, when the right way, and the easy way, would've been to have had a better(friendly) set of regulations and procedures for registering these type of cars in the first place! It is no wonder people often adopt a "they screw us, so we screw them" attitude. [:0]

studegary
08-20-2006, 12:21 PM
I know of many instances of swapped serial number plates on cars. Some were for what I consider to be okay reasons and some were outright theft. I, personally, have never used a swapped S/N plate or knowingly purchased such a car.
Once, I was ready to buy a '64 Chevrolet hardtop. I noticed that the S/N plate did not appear to be attached correctly. I got the usual story about it coming loose. The guy was going to bring the car to me the next day in exchange for cash. In the meantime, I checked the S/N and found that it was for a four door sedan. I refused the car when he brought it and told him that I would still buy it when everything was in order. On my scanner, I heard that he was stopped and his S/N run by the State Police about two miles from my home on his way home from my home. He probably thought/thinks that I called the police on him. I didn't. It was purely coincidental. This was on a weekend. That Monday morning, I called the DMV about getting correct ownership with a replacement ID plate. The lady commented that this was strange because she had just gotten a call from someone else about this same thing.
There is a '53 Champion Starliner in this area with a switched S/N plate because it was a stolen car. The car is now called a '54 (not my '54) because the replacement plate/ownership was from a '54. The rightful owner of the car died. The owner of the garage where the guy had the car stored took possession of the car and used a S/N plate and ownership documents that put the car into his own name. He probably could have legally gotten ownership by an inexpensive purchase from the estate or by putting a garage lien on the car. He took the "easy" way out. Both the car's rightful owner and the owner of the garage are now both deceased.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

studegary
08-20-2006, 12:21 PM
I know of many instances of swapped serial number plates on cars. Some were for what I consider to be okay reasons and some were outright theft. I, personally, have never used a swapped S/N plate or knowingly purchased such a car.
Once, I was ready to buy a '64 Chevrolet hardtop. I noticed that the S/N plate did not appear to be attached correctly. I got the usual story about it coming loose. The guy was going to bring the car to me the next day in exchange for cash. In the meantime, I checked the S/N and found that it was for a four door sedan. I refused the car when he brought it and told him that I would still buy it when everything was in order. On my scanner, I heard that he was stopped and his S/N run by the State Police about two miles from my home on his way home from my home. He probably thought/thinks that I called the police on him. I didn't. It was purely coincidental. This was on a weekend. That Monday morning, I called the DMV about getting correct ownership with a replacement ID plate. The lady commented that this was strange because she had just gotten a call from someone else about this same thing.
There is a '53 Champion Starliner in this area with a switched S/N plate because it was a stolen car. The car is now called a '54 (not my '54) because the replacement plate/ownership was from a '54. The rightful owner of the car died. The owner of the garage where the guy had the car stored took possession of the car and used a S/N plate and ownership documents that put the car into his own name. He probably could have legally gotten ownership by an inexpensive purchase from the estate or by putting a garage lien on the car. He took the "easy" way out. Both the car's rightful owner and the owner of the garage are now both deceased.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

KGlowacky
08-20-2006, 04:23 PM
Thanks for the Cottington details. I read an artical that CAl. was upset because people were understating the values. If what the artical says is true then Boyd is in the wrong. It is not legal to take a vin and title and place it on a NEW BUILT car. I still think in a lost title situation using a title company to get a new title is OK. I'm not talking about changing vin's or making up Vin's , but as I have said earlier read the laws and you must decide what is right and legal.

KGlowacky
08-20-2006, 04:23 PM
Thanks for the Cottington details. I read an artical that CAl. was upset because people were understating the values. If what the artical says is true then Boyd is in the wrong. It is not legal to take a vin and title and place it on a NEW BUILT car. I still think in a lost title situation using a title company to get a new title is OK. I'm not talking about changing vin's or making up Vin's , but as I have said earlier read the laws and you must decide what is right and legal.

JDP
08-20-2006, 04:40 PM
We are having a discussion about the new 57 Chavy being built and I said:

I saw a rotted million dollar Classic "restored" and they even repro'ed the serial tag. They had legal ownership of what was left of the car, and a title and built the car from the ground up using pictures and factory blue prints. The car won a best of show at Pebble Beach and I doubt if there was so much as a original flat washer on the car.
They'll even do a computer scan of a surviving car of the same model and go from there to save a hulk that they legally own.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
Arnold Md.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
63 Daytona HT
63 Lark 2 dr.
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT(parts car)
60 Lark convert
60 Hawk
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
08-20-2006, 04:40 PM
We are having a discussion about the new 57 Chavy being built and I said:

I saw a rotted million dollar Classic "restored" and they even repro'ed the serial tag. They had legal ownership of what was left of the car, and a title and built the car from the ground up using pictures and factory blue prints. The car won a best of show at Pebble Beach and I doubt if there was so much as a original flat washer on the car.
They'll even do a computer scan of a surviving car of the same model and go from there to save a hulk that they legally own.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
Arnold Md.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
63 Daytona HT
63 Lark 2 dr.
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT(parts car)
60 Lark convert
60 Hawk
52 Starliner
51 Commander