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Skinnys Garage
06-01-2009, 10:51 PM
My first post was getting a bit long, so I thought I'd start one for updates on my '60 Lark Marshal. There's a lot of info already posted if you want to check it out.
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?22556-New-Member
I've got it back in the main garage because my convertible left today:(, but it's going to a good home for a full restoration. I did check out the diff and it is just an open Dana 44 with a single tag 43 14 3.07 just like the production order specs. I pulled the front clip off and can see why it was changed, probably in a fender bender at one time. I got an e-mail from Andy at the archives and he said he would check into the file with the Milwaukee police cars to see what he could find. I'll keep you posted.

barnlark
06-01-2009, 10:59 PM
Thanks for the update. The Studebaker scripts on those front fenders are cooler, anyway. :D

candbstudebakers
06-01-2009, 11:03 PM
Dave the little package got here today but still no TW...Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/IM000994-1-1.jpg

barnlark
06-01-2009, 11:18 PM
I'm done with mine, already. I'll send you mine and see if it gets there first. ;)

Skinnys Garage
06-02-2009, 11:27 PM
I finally scrolled down to the bottom of the photo Richard sent me days ago. It's from the back side of the original photo of the Milwaukee police cars from the March '06 TW back cover. After I got the archive file number I never paid much attention to the rest - until tonight! The photo has a stamping of the original photographer, address etc and below that a date - May 14 1960. My PO shows that my car was built on July 7th 1960, so my car is NOT in that photo! I can't believe I missed that the first time, but I just changed my screen resolution so I don't have to scroll back and forth to see everything on the screen. So the search continues for info on my factory hot rod Lark.

8E45E
06-03-2009, 07:06 AM
quote:Originally posted by Skinnys Garage

I finally scrolled down to the bottom of the photo Richard sent me days ago. It's from the back side of the original photo of the Milwaukee police cars from the March '06 TW back cover. After I got the archive file number I never paid much attention to the rest - until tonight! The photo has a stamping of the original photographer, address etc and below that a date - May 14 1960. My PO shows that my car was built on July 7th 1960, so my car is NOT in that photo! So the search continues for info on my factory hot rod Lark.



Your only other resource maybe waiting at the main Milwaukee Public Library on microfilm. There's a good chance the Milwaukee Journal could have also published a photo or two of the MPD's acquisition of all those Larks, not to mention other possible photos of them involved in accident or crime scenes when they were in service. The downside is that you may have to spend a fair amount of time to come up with anything as it will be a bit of a 'needle-in-the-haystack' effort.

Craig

Skinnys Garage
06-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Nothing to exciting this time, just mounted some vintage tires I had laying around and "Velvet Black" wheels like the PO specifies. Getting a shopping list ready for SASCO, hopefully I'll be heading that direction in about a week.

showbizkid
06-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Cool Torino, too, Skinny!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

Skinnys Garage
06-05-2009, 07:32 PM
Thanks Clark, I've got a long history with that car too.

barnlark
06-06-2009, 08:30 AM
Scott, your car had to be one of the last 1960 cars built before the 1961 production began. I'm not sure of that last production date, (someone will) but that's getting pretty close to the end in July. Not sure the paper would still be taking pictures in July of any new cars being ordered after May, though. Pretty slow news day stuff, since it was old news by then. I have called in a request, for a small fee, of an archivist to search for interesting items like that when they get a chance. It is one of the things at which they are good, if their interest is piqued. You may get lucky. [8D]

Skip Lackie
06-06-2009, 09:25 AM
quote:Originally posted by barnlark

Scott, your car had to be one of the last 1960 cars built before the 1961 production began. I'm not sure of that last production date, (someone will) but that's getting pretty close to the end in July. Not sure the paper would still be taking pictures in July of any new cars being ordered after May, though. Pretty slow news day stuff, since it was old news by then. I have called in a request, for a small fee, of an archivist to search for interesting items like that when they get a chance. It is one of the things at which they are good, if their interest is piqued. You may get lucky. [8D]

Dave-
Ask and you shall receive:
1960 car production ended July 22, 1960
1961 car production (South Bend) started August 26, 1960
1961 car production (Hamilton) started September 20, 1960.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Skinnys Garage
06-06-2009, 10:57 AM
Thanks for the help and info guys, they were cutting it pretty close on getting it built from a March order.

I've got a question about SASCO's interior panel inventory. The website doesn't show any interior parts, but I understand they have quite the collection. I plan on calling for info before I go, but can anybody tell me more about what they have? Is it sorted and easy to locate or will it take time to dig? I'll be passing through there in about a week and have budgeted about 1-1/2 hours to SASCO - is that enough? Hopefully I can find some panels for the Marshal.

bams50
06-06-2009, 12:23 PM
I hope you have some luck. As I understand it, the interior stuff is only made available on certain occasions. I went to the 07 Meet and they were all out, with folks rooting through them. It amounts to a large room with massive stacks of this stuff, the vast majority of which is not sorted or in any order. If I had the time then, I would have loved searching for what I needed. Instead I planned on returning, specifically for that purpose.

Last October, I delivered a car to SB, and as part of that trip, set aside a full day to search the door panels and seat covers. To my dismay, I discovered that all this had been made off-limits to the public:( They understandably don't have time (or interest) to search for needles in that haystack, so I left without what I needed. Dave was able to look up panels that were still in boxes, and found me four panels for a Wagonaire, plus a NOS vanity and some other things. While I didn't leave empty-handed, I went away thinking about all those musty panels and seat covers not getting any better, nor going to my caring shop.......

I see that they were again made available for the May meet, which I was unable to attend. I sure wish I could have one shot at the pile before it goes off to the dump at the end of the year... just don't see it happening...

If it comes to that, I'll try to make a deal on the lot. I'll haul it back to NY and make sorting and dry-storing them for future restorers; I'd make it my mission.

Till then, best of luck.

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag3-1.gif

Skip Lackie
06-06-2009, 04:43 PM
Most soft interior parts are not listed in the Stude parts books. SASCO has a "special" parts book that is used to look up part numbers and locations for those materials. Most of SASCO's made-up and boxed interior panels are for 64-66 Lark types. There are a few items for 62 and 63 models, but not much before. That said, SASCO does have quite a few rolls of material (vinyl, cloth) for earlier models, so you might be able to get the correct material, if you want to have some seat covers or door panels made. Your best bet would be to call Dave and ask what he has.

In general, SASCO knows what boxed, part-numbered items it has in stock. But many of the big rolls of material are not well inventoried, and there are also many items that were left over from the production line. These are not in boxes and are generally not marked with part numbers. These latter items are brought out for meets so that customers can root through and maybe find something they recognize.

SASCO has a retail area on the first floor that is laid out like a store. Due to insurance considerations, they generally have not allowed customers to go rooting through the back room or upper floors. I don't know if their current situation has caused them to modify any of their procedures. Again, recommend you call and discuss your plans with Dave or Dennis.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Skinnys Garage
06-06-2009, 05:03 PM
I'm helping a friend haul a car to Virginia again (third time!) and I decided to make a little detour to South Bend to see SASCO and visit the new museum. The last time I was there with my wife it was on a weekend in '02, so we only got to visit the (old) museum and drive around the old Studebaker buildings. I wasn't getting my hopes up on finding any interior parts, but do plan on shopping for other stuff and seeing the place before it's gone.:( I plan on giving them a call about the interior stuff a few days before we leave just in case.

62champ
06-06-2009, 09:40 PM
Skinny,

Last time I got to visit SASCO,(few years back) I remember they had a rack with spooled door panel material for 1960 Larks. I think it was something like six different colors (or maybe even eight). I think all Larks had the same panels and chrome strips were added for the Regal models.

BTW - I love the tires and "Velvet Black" wheels - so many people dislike the bias-ply tires - I love 'em - I wish I could find a set for my Champ pickup that do not cost the arm/leg price tag...

<div align="left">1960 Lark VI</div id="left"> <div align="right">1962 7E7-122</div id="right">
[img=left]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/8b0ac4c6.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/DSC02237.jpg[/img=right]

bams50
06-07-2009, 12:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

In general, SASCO knows what boxed, part-numbered items it has in stock. But many of the big rolls of material are not well inventoried, and there are also many items that were left over from the production line. These are not in boxes and are generally not marked with part numbers. These latter items are brought out for meets so that customers can root through and maybe find something they recognize.

Again, recommend you call and discuss your plans with Dave or Dennis.



That's what I'm wondering. I remember the MOUNTAINS (plural) of seat covers and door panels, and had hoped to spend the time looking through them all; it would likely take a full day of non-stop effort. Then, there would be a question of whether what you find was ruined or not. I can see why they wouldn't want to be bothered, but why not make them more accessible to those willing to do it? I asked Dave, and he said because "we only do that during Meets"... and I didn't press it any further.

I am really bothered by the thought of this stuff getting tossed due to lack of interest. I can straighten and weld metal if needed, but there's no repairing ripped seat covers or rotted door panels. If it comes to it I can come with a 34' 5th wheel enclosed race car trailer and load it up... I can probably even arrange a tractor-trailer if needed. Time will tell; I'm watching...

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag3-1.gif

r1lark
06-07-2009, 01:16 PM
Well bams, Dennis' email said that he was entertaining offers on bulk purchases.....maybe you can make a deal on ALL of the interior items SASCO has. Just make sure you get the 'special' interior part number books that Skip mentioned!!

Paul
Winston-Salem, NC
Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

Skip Lackie
06-08-2009, 09:41 AM
quote:Originally posted by bams50


quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

In general, SASCO knows what boxed, part-numbered items it has in stock. But many of the big rolls of material are not well inventoried, and there are also many items that were left over from the production line. These are not in boxes and are generally not marked with part numbers. These latter items are brought out for meets so that customers can root through and maybe find something they recognize.

Again, recommend you call and discuss your plans with Dave or Dennis.



That's what I'm wondering. I remember the MOUNTAINS (plural) of seat covers and door panels, and had hoped to spend the time looking through them all; it would likely take a full day of non-stop effort. Then, there would be a question of whether what you find was ruined or not. I can see why they wouldn't want to be bothered, but why not make them more accessible to those willing to do it? I asked Dave, and he said because "we only do that during Meets"... and I didn't press it any further.

I am really bothered by the thought of this stuff getting tossed due to lack of interest. I can straighten and weld metal if needed, but there's no repairing ripped seat covers or rotted door panels. If it comes to it I can come with a 34' 5th wheel enclosed race car trailer and load it up... I can probably even arrange a tractor-trailer if needed. Time will tell; I'm watching...

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131







Bob-
Given your interest in rescuing a significant quantity of his soft parts, I would recommend you call Dennis and see if you can negotiate an arrangement: you get the run of the building for a day (or whatever) and agree in advance on a discount for whatever you bring down. Seems like the circumstances might justify a modification of the standard operating procedures.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

8E45E
06-08-2009, 01:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie
Given your interest in rescuing a significant quantity of his soft parts, I would recommend you call Dennis and see if you can negotiate an arrangement: you get the run of the building for a day (or whatever) and agree in advance on a discount for whatever you bring down. Seems like the circumstances might justify a modification of the standard operating procedures.


I certainly hope Phantom Interiors gets involved in that department. I do know they've already bought some of the 'exclusive' patterned rolls such as the '61 Larks-in-flight cloth material. Maybe they'll be convinced to obtain the remaining upholstery stock.

Craig

bams50
06-08-2009, 02:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie


Given your interest in rescuing a significant quantity of his soft parts, I would recommend you call Dennis and see if you can negotiate an arrangement

That is what is on my mind to do. Couple issues:

1. There's still time for Dennis to sell off a decent amount, and at a better price, of what's in there IF he makes the stuff more accessible to those willing to dig. It's going to be an incredibly tricky proposition to choose the timing of that tipping point between clearance pricing and "clear to the walls". Every piece that can be sold at a sale price will make a big difference to the ending total. Nobody's going to be able to afford to pay much for that whole lot compared to those that need something specific. Example: I have a photo that shows hundreds of loose door panels at $25 each; a steal if you need what's there, but what does one pay for, say, 500 unidentified, mismatched panels, that may have a large percentage ruined by rot or critters? Now apply that to several 5ft. tall piles of seat covers, some of which weren't very durable when new. How do you price, or dare to commit to it? I aim to try, but I'm still trying to get a handle on these questions in my mind...

2. There's the issue of available funds. Business has been off for me, and June and July are the slowest months of the year, even in good times. I'm in no position to talk with Dennis until Summer's over at least, and even then I'll have to see where I'm at financially. I can and will tackle this, but I'll have to either put together an amount of money I won't need to see for a long time, or find a financial backer, or a combination of both. In any case, that's a tall order- I don't know if a target number will be $500, or $5,000, or who knows? And I can't even address that until I know what's in the coffers. It's not fair to bother Dennis, who I'm sure is overwhelmed, until I'm ready to put some money on the table. At this point all I have is the desire, energy, and ideas on how to move it.

As I see it, the best plan for now is to encourage folks to make the effort to go look for what they need. Someone who has Dennis' ear might want to encourage him to open up better access to the stuff. In the meantime, if someone wants to finance the end-stage rescue of what's left, I'm all ears;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag3-1.gif

Skinnys Garage
06-08-2009, 03:24 PM
I talked with Dennis for a few minutes on the phone this morning to check on interior panels or material for my car and he said they didn't have anything for a '60.:( So, I'll just focus on parts from the book while I'm there and call it good. Being the CASO that I am, I also asked about pricing and nothing has changed yet, so I'll just use the money saved on shipping to buy more.:)

bams50
06-08-2009, 03:44 PM
That's probably the best plan, Skinny. I'm sure if you put together a large lot of stuff, you could work a deal, but buying all you can now is doing your part, and the right attitude. There's still time for a deep-pocketed buyer to buy the entire business, and if that buyer surfaces, we can all go all out to offer help with logistics to that buyer. In the meantime, get it while it's still available[B)]

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag3-1.gif

studegary
06-09-2009, 01:36 PM
"...some of which weren't very durable when new." brings back a memory. Tony C., of A&M Garage, had an NOS set of seat upholstery for a 1962 Hawk. In the 1970s, when he went to use it, it was no longer good enough to put into a car.



Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

Skinnys Garage
06-20-2009, 09:17 PM
Just got back from my trip to Virginia with my detour through South Bend. I picked up a few harder to ship items from SASCO and checked out the show room for about an hour visiting with Dave. It's going to be a sad day if and when all that inventory goes away. I stopped at the museum and visited with Andy about the Marshal and he found two more photos in the archives of the Milwaukee police cars besides the one published in TW. I'm getting 8 x 10's of all three photos for my office. He also found the special deviation permit #4664 for the cars ordered for the Milwaukee PD, 7 pages in all, that explain some of the special equipment. There were 56 cars ordered with consecutive order numbers, 52 with the HD water cooled trans and the last 4 without. All had 289's and special equipment like mine, but no mention was made of any color changes like mine. They show how to install the special Leese Neville regulator bracket and explain how to leave the factory wiring in place for trade in (mine stayed with the car). The two lines on the order form about the HD seat are 2 different things, one is for the extra cushion itself and the other is a process done by the interior dept. that uses extra wires to hold the springs making the seat more firm. Another interesting thing is the line about the spare tire, it doesn't mean that the car just gets one, it refers to a complete second spare to be left in the trunk along with the standard spare. The 4 cars that didn't get the HD trans only got an extra wheel without a tire. One last interesting note was to make sure the pulley alignment was correct, because the customer complained that some of the first cars delivered had the alternator bolted on the wrong side of the bracket (I'm glad mine was built toward the end of the run!):D Looking forward to Cedar Rapids to check out the vendors, the swap meet and for some inspiration to get something done!

hotrodstude
06-21-2009, 10:16 PM
i remember st. louis ,missouri have afew 1962 or 1963 2-door sedans as police cars had the sirand mounted on the right front fenders. why 2-doors?and they were white in color.and i think that a least one of them was a stick/6-cylinder. con't remember the interior color.blue or tan?

Skinnys Garage
06-26-2009, 10:30 AM
I talked with my friend that I got the Marshal from and he still has the original front clip for the car. It's "stored" about 50 miles away, so when he gets back from hauling freight in a week or two, we're going to go pick it up and check for some other parts in his stash. I'm very curious to see if the right fender has patched holes from a mounted siren or not. The antenna hole in the roof is in the same position as in the Milwaukee photos, but I'm not so sure about the two bolts through the roof holding a large dome light right where a beacon light would mount on top. At first I figured no one would put two big bolts through the roof just to hold a dome light, but this was a police fleet car, and maybe that wouldn't be so uncommon. The paint around the bolts on the roof show no signs of wear from a beacon light, but the doors were painted and they probably sprayed the roof after patching the antenna hole. After I get the original front clip and check it for siren holes, I should know if this was an unmarked detectives car or a fully dressed patrol car. The color change from White Sand to Hawaiian Green on the production order is what has me wondering about it's use in the department.

Skinnys Garage
06-30-2009, 01:27 AM
The three Milwaukee PD photos arrived from the museum archives today. One has a couple of police '58 Ford 2-door sedans and a police '60 Ford wagon in the background. The different pics show how the siren is mounted and the AC2918 mirror. The Sergeants car with the plate looks pretty dirty next to the just delivered cars (or is it Hawaiian Green?);). The over spray from the stenciling on the doors is also noticeable in the photos. I'd like to thank Richard for the info on the TW photo, Andy for helping out at the archives and all the forum members who helped me out with extra info on the Milwaukee cars.

studegary
06-30-2009, 02:43 PM
Thanks for the information and pictures.
When I told Cathy that the Milwaukee Police Department went from 1958 Fords (one of our worst cars) to 1960 Larks with 289s, she said; "What an improvment!". I agree!

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

Skinnys Garage
07-03-2009, 11:14 PM
Went over to my friends other stash of Stude cars and parts today to check out the front clip that originally came on my car.[:p] He bought the car in the early seventies and replaced the clip because of a bent fender. I was hoping that the clip he took off would hold the answer to my question about unmarked or fully decked out police car with a siren on the fender. Unfortunately the fender bender that he repaired was not the first, the clip had replacement fenders installed once before.:( So, no tell tail holes in the right fender for a siren and no idea when the clip was first repaired with new outer fenders tacked on. When I finally get around to working on it (AFTER my '59 is done!) I'll probably just plan on finishing the car without any of the police add-ons for more of a "plain green wrapper" hot rod attitude anyway.;)

Skinnys Garage
09-21-2011, 02:43 PM
It's been over two years since my last update, so I'll try and catch up a bit. Pulled the production order matching 289 out a while back to removed the stuck pistons and flush out the water jackets. No major cylinder damage, but some of the pistons didn't survive. I have a good set of used ones and will slip on some new rings to finish up the bottom end. Crank was ground .010/.010 sometime in the past with bearings dated 1964. I had a valve job done on the original 555 heads and checked guides, spring pressures etc. Nothing over the top, just enough to get it in running order again.

Other than the engine work, about the only thing I've done is find a decent '60 front clip to replace the '59 it had when I got it. Working on my '62 project and others over the past couple of years has slowed the progress, but I'll get to it eventually.......:rolleyes::cool:

studegary
09-21-2011, 03:31 PM
Thanks! That would have been a nice car to own when it was new.
I find it interesting that it was nearly four months after the order was written when the car was built.

Skinnys Garage
09-21-2011, 03:33 PM
The 4664 deviation papers (as noted on the bottom line of the production order) really show how certain things were done on the car. It's interesting to look at the car and see things described in these documents.

8E45E
09-21-2011, 05:27 PM
FANTASTIC!

Thanks!

Craig

Milaca
09-21-2011, 11:46 PM
It strikes me as odd that the city of Milwaukee did not purchase Rambler's being that they were made in nearby Kenosha. Did Studebaker police cars have a better reputation of performance & durability than Wisconsin's own at that time?

Bob Andrews
09-22-2011, 05:30 AM
I'm curious, why did you cross off the serial #? I can't imagine what harm showing it would do.

Skinnys Garage
09-22-2011, 07:00 PM
Gary, sorry about the missing info while you were posting. I didn't like the way one of the pics turned out, so I pulled the post and must have been fixing it when you were responding. Yes, the 4 month time frame seems like a long time from order to assembly. The first cars were delivered much earlier as the photo's of the five cars are dated May 14th. Amendment 2 dated May 10th also shows a problem with the alternator alignment on the first cars delivered.

Craig, thanks for the reminder the other day, I knew you'd get a kick out of reading these.

Brent, I'd guess it was a price thing as with most fleet contracts. To get a Rebel with the bigger engine and other HD parts may have put them out of the running. I don't think you could get a Rebel in a stripped 2-door as they were kind of the flagship 4-door/wagon offering from Rambler. I suppose a six powered 2-door American would have worked, but I'll stick with my 289 4 barrel......:cool:

Bob, I guess to turn it around a bit, I can't imagine what good showing it would do.:rolleyes:

Skinnys Garage
10-19-2011, 07:25 PM
Good news/Bad news. Good news is I bought a parts car ('59 2dr) that will donate all kinds of rear structural pieces and a clean right door that the Marshal really needs. The bad news is that it has to come apart. A title issue and more rust in the floor than expected tipped the decision. Probably the right move in the long run to keep moving forward on the Marshal.

8E45E
03-18-2012, 12:04 AM
After I get the original front clip and check it for siren holes, I should know if this was an unmarked detectives car or a fully dressed patrol car. The color change from White Sand to Hawaiian Green on the production order is what has me wondering about it's use in the department.

While looking for information on something else, I ran across this in Fred K. Fox's "Literature In Review" column in the February, 1981 Turning Wheels. According to this, yours is a dective's car:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6845728016_8d62034fb8_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6991855441_64f790ea0f_b.jpg

Craig

Skinnys Garage
03-18-2012, 01:19 AM
Very cool Craig, thanks for posting! Still would like to hear the story on why they used a production color from the previous year on this car.

Still gathering parts for it. Found an AC2918 outside mirror and some clean gauge/speaker surrounds to go with my nice horn ring and button. Also, pulled apart a low mileage 289 with the correct style pistons and other internals to get the engine back in running order, hopefully soon.

Current plans are to use the better pieces I already have (structural/mechanical) to get the car functional for now, not restored.

8E45E
03-18-2012, 07:58 AM
Very cool Craig, thanks for posting! Still would like to hear the story on why they used a production color from the previous year on this car.

Glad to hear your making some progress on it. The latest Roster I have is from 2002, but this Thoman Ennis was still a member then, and lived/lives in Solvang, CA. Perhaps he can provide the answer, provided he is still with us.

Craig

showbizkid
03-18-2012, 10:10 AM
Were these models available to the general public, had they wanted one? Or were they restricted for sale to law enforcement organizations? If the Corporation would sell one to the public, that may explain the paint color.

Skinnys Garage
03-18-2012, 11:10 AM
Clark, the production order confirms it as one of the Milwaukee Police fleet cars, not one built for the public. That said, Tom's response to Fred's article sheds some light as to the cars intent, a detectives car. The question that still remains though, why they painted it a previous year color? ('59 Hawaiian green)

I'm not sure if the Marshal package could be ordered for the public, but the mention of a 289 convertible special ordered for a customer is a really interesting! A day at the archives finding all the Milwaukee fleet order cars (to see how many were colors other than white) and finding that convertible may be in order someday.:cool:

On another note, I wouldn't mind finding a July '80 and Feb '81 Turning Wheels with the '60 Lark/Marshal info. I found some complete years sets on E-Bay, but hoping I can do better than $50 for the two I want.

Skinnys Garage
03-18-2012, 02:39 PM
:) More information about this arrived today from Tom Beckman. Tom heard from Keith Kichefski. Here is what Keith adds to the discussion:


From: Keith Kichefski
[mailto:keithk55@yahoo.com]
Subject: Skinny's Milwaukee Lark.

Hi, Tom. I never signed up for posting on the forum, but I thought I would chime in. As I recall, all uniform squads for the City of Milwaukee were white. The cars ordered for detective use were various colors throughout time.

This is still true today, although some uniform squads are being repainted to black and white to suit the new Police Chief. At one time on the [b]Tracks Ahead TV show on PBS, they had a video segment of the Electroliner passenger train, in color. It showed one of the white Lark Milwaukee squads, rounding a corner in the background. I'm sure the video is on the net someplace.

Even though Skinny's Lark shows extra foam in the seat, I was told the officers assigned to the cars complained of back-aches. This probably lead to better seats starting in 1962.

The lack of Twin Traction doesn't surprise me. My 1964 Marshal didn't have TT either. It is my understanding, on an icy street, it could cause the car to spin out, if both wheels broke loose in a turn.

I was told by Jane Neustedter, the daughter of the owner (Eric Bonow) of Vliet Street Motors, that they sold the fleet order for those 1960 Larks to Milwaukee. In fact, the zone manager asked them, as a favor, to take two of the 1964 Marshal demo units. She reluctantly did, figuring they would be hard to sell. She said both sold quickly.

Mine was tagged for the State of Illinois. The sister car was tagged for the State of Wisconsin. The Wisconsin car was an oddball, as it had stick on the column. That was originally WI highway patrol grey with black. For what it's worth, the WI highway patrol continued to buy cars with stick on the column, up to 1967 Chevy Biscaynes with 427. The first automatic cars were 1968 Plymouths with 440.

As you know, Andy had tracked down the 1964 Larks, the city of Milwaukee tried out. As far as I know, Gerry Garske's Challenger is the only one of those to survive.

Here is the dealer's address:
Vliet Street Motors, Inc.
6127 West Vliet Street
Milwaukee (Wauwatosa) 13, Wisconsin
Ph. GLenview 3-6110

(s) Keith Kichefski

Thanks, Tom and Keith, for the additional info. :DBP

My original 'New Member' thread (link in post #1) has a mix of welcomes and some Marshal discussion, but I thought this post from May '09 should be included with my Marshal updates. Thanks again to all that have contributed information regarding these cars. Scott

1962larksedan
03-18-2012, 08:24 PM
My original 'New Member' thread (link in post #1) has a mix of welcomes and some Marshal discussion, but I thought this post from May '09 should be included with my Marshal updates. Thanks again to all that have contributed information regarding these cars. Scott

Correct on the 427/3spd 1967 Biscaynes for the WiSP..........a guy over on Chevy Talk; DeathSStar, has a 1967 Biscayne retail car that he's turning into a clone to depict that agency. It presently is a 283/PG sedan but he wants to convert it to the correct specs.

Skinnys Garage
03-21-2013, 12:05 AM
Another year without much progress. Did manage to disassemble all the lock cylinders for cleaning and keyed an ignition switch to match. My locksmith friend cut a fresh set of keys using the factory codes on the PO. Richard Quinn set me up with a pair of period key chains from the cars ordering dealer, Vliet St. Motors in Milwaukee.

Warren Webb
03-21-2013, 10:58 AM
Skinny, I have both July 80 & Feb 81 extra issues. PM me.

Skinnys Garage
03-22-2013, 09:50 AM
Skinny, I have both July 80 & Feb 81 extra issues. PM me.PM sent. Thanks, Scott

Skinnys Garage
03-31-2013, 11:12 PM
Skinny, I have both July 80 & Feb 81 extra issues. PM me.Arrived safe and sound Warren, Thanks! I sent a PM your direction also. Thanks again, Scott

Skinnys Garage
04-25-2013, 09:24 PM
Brought it in the shop to get some work done today. Pulled the frame for sand blasting and to make some small repairs before coating it. I'll clean up the components and document all the HD parts from the production order. Probably start on the rust repair after that, as well as getting the engine back together.

On a side note, I want to thank Craig Parslow for featuring my Marshal in the Foothills chapter newsletter the 'Studepaper'. The article may have added some much needed motivation.;)

Skinnys Garage
05-07-2013, 10:20 PM
Removed everything from the frame to start repairs. Used the engine hoist to raise the front about 8 feet high to rinse out the rails using a heavy wire through the openings to help move things along. Flushed it both right side up and turned over, so it's pretty clean. Scraped away most of the grease while it was outside to make sand blasting easier later on.

Back on stands to fix a couple areas on the left hand lower plate and body mounts. Other than some light pitting, the right side is in great shape. Overall, not too bad considering (even the serial number is readable!), but the body will more than make up for any time saved with the frame..............:(

studegary
05-08-2013, 12:53 PM
Good for you! I look at that and can't even imagine taking a frame down like that and, more importantly, reassembling everything (again). It is about 35 years since I was involved in a frame swap.

Swifster
05-08-2013, 03:26 PM
I always figuired if the frame went back together, that was half the battle. It gives you hope (no matter how rusty the body is).

Skinnys Garage
05-09-2013, 10:21 PM
Thanks guys. Sticking with it and worked on the bad section of lower plate today. Cleaned things up and spraying on some weld through primer. Finally, welded in the new plate section fabbed up from some sheetmetal. Drilled over 60 holes for plug welds to mimic the factory spots. Should blend in well with the rest of the rail after everything is back together. Just need to install the much nicer body mounts removed from a parts car, finish a smaller plate repair at the back, sandblast, epoxy prime and paint.

8E45E
05-09-2013, 10:25 PM
Awesome work!!!! Great to see your excellent progress on it!!

Craig

LeoH
05-09-2013, 11:38 PM
Amazing work. I have heard of the Marshal cars, but know no history. It seems odd, and likely an historic attitude, that there would be police cars strictly for 'pursuit', but being a 2 door model, no practical way to cart away the perp.

studegary
05-10-2013, 12:45 PM
Amazing work. I have heard of the Marshal cars, but know no history. It seems odd, and likely an historic attitude, that there would be police cars strictly for 'pursuit', but being a 2 door model, no practical way to cart away the perp.

There have been other threads here on the Forum on Marshals and police cars, including two door versions. Pursuit was a model of Marshal, not necessarily the intended useage. You could try a search.
Many police departments used two door cars. In 1961, a used car lot that I worked at bought a whole fleet of two door police cars that were all 1961 Plymouths. Locally, some departments used two doors, like Dutchess County had two door Novas.

1962larksedan
05-11-2013, 02:31 PM
There have been other threads here on the Forum on Marshals and police cars, including two door versions. Pursuit was a model of Marshal, not necessarily the intended useage. You could try a search.
Many police departments used two door cars. In 1961, a used car lot that I worked at bought a whole fleet of two door police cars that were all 1961 Plymouths. Locally, some departments used two doors, like Dutchess County had two door Novas.

Many PD's didn't start going with 4 door sedans till the late 1960's.........Virginia State Police (1970), Ohio State Patrol (1970) and Colorado/Kansas/Nebraska in the late '70's..........

Skinnys Garage
05-15-2013, 10:16 PM
Thought sandblasting the frame would take a couple hours.....ended up taking all day. Blast, sweep, sift, repeat.......blast, sweep, sift, repeat.......my back (as well as the rest of me) is telling me I'm getting too old for this stuff. I guess being worn out at the end of the day is one of the CASO drawbacks, not wanting to pay for something I can do myself and trying not to use more than a couple bags of sand by recycling.;)

Very happy with the results though. The rust cleaned off leaving a surprisingly smooth surface with no hidden holes that weren't already addressed. No cracks or problems found anywhere, so I can finish the prep work and get the black epoxy sprayed on. Decided not to do a finish coat yet, because the body may be on and off a few times. No real interest from potential buyers, so I'll keep plugging away on it.

Milaca
05-15-2013, 10:26 PM
There is plenty of interest in your car, but we would rather watch you do all of the hard work for us. ;)

Skinnys Garage
05-15-2013, 10:45 PM
There is plenty of interest in your car, but we would rather watch you do all of the hard work for us. ;)Sounds about right.:D

Milaca
05-15-2013, 11:00 PM
I have an International KB-3 one-ton cab & chassis to trade. Come take it for a drive up & down my driveway if interested. It would make a lovely flower bed if nothing else. ;)

Skinnys Garage
05-15-2013, 11:06 PM
I have an International KB-3 one-ton cab & chassis to trade. Come take it for a drive up & down my driveway if interested. It would make a lovely flower bed if nothing else. ;)Be careful with a tempting offer like that Brent, you've got all kinds of good trading material.....and you know I'm an IH guy.........:cool:

Skinnys Garage
08-14-2013, 11:20 PM
Busy Summer doing other things, so it's been slow on the Marshal. Did manage to do the final prep and spray the frame with black epoxy. No detailing on the suspension yet, just a bit of scraping and then a good pressure wash to get most of the grime off. Wanted to get it rolling again before setting the body back in place for floor replacement. Probably won't get much more done this year, but I'm happy just making some progress when possible.

Skinnys Garage
09-08-2013, 01:32 AM
Back into a roller again, with all the parts stuffed inside ready for storage. Probably will be put away for a while, so it'll get buried in the back garage.

BobPalma
09-08-2013, 05:02 AM
Very nice, Skinny. Thanks for the updates on a worthy project. :!: BP

mmagic
09-08-2013, 05:58 AM
Many PD's didn't start going with 4 door sedans till the late 1960's.........Virginia State Police (1970), Ohio State Patrol (1970) and Colorado/Kansas/Nebraska in the late '70's..........

Colorado still uses some 2 doors.... With all of today's electronic gear and equipment I wonder what the cockpit looks like. I'd hope they put 4 point racing harnesses in this one!

27208

Bradford
09-22-2015, 02:41 AM
Looking good. Its been going this long, might as well keep going and finish it.

8E45E
12-08-2016, 01:54 PM
Yes, by all means, finish it!!!

Craig

jpepper
12-09-2016, 12:35 PM
This is interesting. Growing up in Milwaukee, I had contact with at least two of the Studebaker Squads. About the time I bought my Superlark from the original owner
(Bob Babel) his dad bought a black 60 marshal which was a former Milwaukee or surrounding community squad. This was 1967. Bob and his dad used the car for work and ran it into the ground. I helped take it to the junkyard after removing some stuff. Fast forward a few years, I needed a winter beater. I answered a for sale ad in the newspaper for a 60 Lark. It was one of the original white squads. The seller bondo'd up the body holes, the spotlight was still there and functional. He painted the exterior metallic brown. The door jams, under the hood and trunk were still white. The original engine came with the car but was wore out. In it's place was an R1 from a 63 Marshal that came from Chicago. The front seat was replaced by a pair of Corvair buckets. The HD vinyl rear seat was still there. I bought the car in August of 69 and sold it before entering the Army in May of 1970. I put a 259 in it before selling it. The kid I sold it to trashed it over the next year and it was junked. I also had a 61 Marshal parts car around that same time. The 289 from the 61 spent time in my Superlark when I was working on the R2. My wife Cindy's 66 Avanti II was bought new by Eunice Bonow, daughter of the owner of Vliet St Motors. These cars were plenty fast, handled well and stopped great. They did ride hard though. I want to see this one when it is done. I wish I had pictures of mine.

Skinnys Garage
12-12-2016, 11:01 PM
This is interesting. Growing up in Milwaukee, I had contact with at least two of the Studebaker Squads. About the time I bought my Superlark from the original owner
(Bob Babel) his dad bought a black 60 marshal which was a former Milwaukee or surrounding community squad. This was 1967. Bob and his dad used the car for work and ran it into the ground. I helped take it to the junkyard after removing some stuff. Fast forward a few years, I needed a winter beater. I answered a for sale ad in the newspaper for a 60 Lark. It was one of the original white squads. The seller bondo'd up the body holes, the spotlight was still there and functional. He painted the exterior metallic brown. The door jams, under the hood and trunk were still white. The original engine came with the car but was wore out. In it's place was an R1 from a 63 Marshal that came from Chicago. The front seat was replaced by a pair of Corvair buckets. The HD vinyl rear seat was still there. I bought the car in August of 69 and sold it before entering the Army in May of 1970. I put a 259 in it before selling it. The kid I sold it to trashed it over the next year and it was junked. I also had a 61 Marshal parts car around that same time. The 289 from the 61 spent time in my Superlark when I was working on the R2. My wife Cindy's 66 Avanti II was bought new by Eunice Bonow, daughter of the owner of Vliet St Motors. These cars were plenty fast, handled well and stopped great. They did ride hard though. I want to see this one when it is done. I wish I had pictures of mine.James, very cool to hear about another one (maybe two) of these cars. Could you recall if it was one with the HD trans or without? Also, was the interior green? I'll bet the production order on your car would have matched mine, minus the special order paint (White Sand is Xed over on mine). Anything you can remember would be great. Thanks, Scott

jpepper
12-14-2016, 01:09 PM
My car had the water cooled HDFL. I don't recall the color of the interior. The guy I bought it from is the one who installed the Corvair buckets. They were orange. He dyed the rear seat and door panels to match. I do not recall the color of the dash.

lumpy
12-19-2017, 09:26 PM
Hey Skinny.. Whats up with the Marshal?

Skinnys Garage
12-19-2017, 10:47 PM
Hey Skinny.. Whats up with the Marshal?Well, after a few years of no progress, it's actually back in the shop ready for floor and trunk tub replacement. Going to frame up some supports across the door openings and start with the new CE floors and rockers. The Photobucket thing really messed my threads up, but I plan on fixing the links with another service. As we all know, nothing really happens without pictures!;):cool:

lumpy
12-20-2017, 04:57 PM
Nice ! I'll look forward to some photos as work progresses:!: