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Spule 4
12-26-2006, 06:03 PM
All:

In line with the Volvo motor question, I have heard that Larks were available with diesel (Perkins) motors, maybe for export only? Any truth to this? I have never seen a photo of such an installation, or anyone claiming to have such a car in their possession.

Thanks-

Garrett

mbstude
12-26-2006, 06:40 PM
Yes, they made a few.[8D] I know of at least one restored survivor. I can't locate a pic right now though. :(

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

JDP
12-26-2006, 07:21 PM
Tory Kirby from West Virgina has a diesel Lark.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

rockne10
12-26-2006, 07:35 PM
There was an article in TURNING WHEELS a number of years ago about a fleet of Studebaker taxis with the 3 cylinder Perkins. Anyone remember which issue?

bams50
12-26-2006, 07:49 PM
I love diesels, and I love Larks; so if anyone ever hears of one for sale, PLEASE let me know!![:p]

I would love to see one, at least...

Any diesel-powered Stude can find a good home with me anytime!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Guido
12-26-2006, 09:36 PM
JDP is correct, A. Torey Kirby from Martinsburg has one and he showed it at the Atlantic Zone Meet this summer. I can recall seeing it at a meet in Harrisonburg about 30 years ago so I know he has owned it at least that long. Paul Johnson (53k) lives near him and knows him better than anyone on the forum. He has bunches of old vehicles scattered around his place, but most are getting pretty rough.

I have sent Matthew some pictures to post as I am too lazy to upload them to a website!

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
12-26-2006, 09:39 PM
By the way, they also put a Perkins in a Zip Van. Asa Hall had the one and only and it sold at his sale. Should have bought that one too (along with the M-17). The pictures are located in the album titled "Asa Hall Sale" at this website: http://community.webshots.com/user/GuidoSalvage

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/32/33/0/62/77/2677062770097493054MLUCfx_th.jpg

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

mbstude
12-26-2006, 10:03 PM
Here's the pics Gary sent me.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/sara_vbs_019.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/sara_vbs_020.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/sara_vbs_018.jpg

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

Guido
12-26-2006, 10:16 PM
With all the recent interest in body tags, I wish I had taken a picture of this one. Perhaps Paul Johnson, Leonard Shepherd or Frank Drumheller has a picture of it.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

John Kirchhoff
12-26-2006, 10:19 PM
That Perkins diesel looks like a 240??? something cubic inch job. If you think the 169ci 6 was doggy, I bet that Perkins powered job couldn't get out of its own way. It was probably easy on fuel but come winter I bet you bought starting fluid by the case. There's no comparison between the cold weather starting ease of todays diesels and the oldies.

Transtar60
12-26-2006, 10:33 PM
About three years ago there was a 66 CJ-6 with this same engine in it on ebay. I think it was from an east coast state. Connecutt or someplace

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Guido
12-26-2006, 10:55 PM
quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff
It was probably easy on fuel but come winter I bet you bought starting fluid by the case. There's no comparison between the cold weather starting ease of todays diesels and the oldies.
John,

I had a 560 Cockshutt tractor with a 270 Perkins in it. No glow plugs and always started with just a turn of the key. It was the easiest starting diesel I ever owned.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Dan White
12-27-2006, 08:07 AM
From what I heard Torey bought the diesel Lark new and has owned it ever since. The Studebaker dealer he visited wanted to get rid of it since Studebaker had closed down and it was still in his inventory.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

John Kirchhoff
12-27-2006, 10:10 AM
Gary,
I wish my tractors started that good. I have two 1850 Olivers with the 354 Perkins and at temperatures below 25, there's no way they'll start without starting fluid. At anything below 25, you'd better plug the block heater in. My 2-150 White starts easier, but in really cold temperatures it still needs assistance. We used to have a '58 Case 800 and it came with a factory installed device to inject starting fluid as well as a device to hold the exhaust valves open so you could unload the cylinders of unburned fuel after after those long, fruitless attempts at starting.

The new diesels start easier because the injectors crack at a higher pressure, the old indirect injection Case dribbled fuel in at 1,600 pounds, the direct injection Olivers 2,400, the White 3,000 and modern engines often run 20,000 pounds for better atomization. That's why you never see a modern over the road tractor trailing a long plume of black smoke. And it's also illegal for a mechanic to turn up the pump.
John

Spule 4
12-27-2006, 10:24 AM
First, thanks for all the replies, and the PHOTOS. Very nice of you guys!


quote:Originally posted by mbstude

Here's the pics Gary sent me.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/sara_vbs_019.jpg



I saw the posts regarding buying this car from the dealership new, but the photo above brings up one other neat item. Yellow reverse lights. I assume this car/lights are intended for export as I know in Europe a lot of US cars had their reverse lights in yellow/yellow bulbs to do double duty as rear indicators. I actually had a French spec and built car with yellow reverse lights once, a bit different.

As another poster indicated, I wonder what the "performance" of this car was like.

Garrett

JDP
12-27-2006, 10:45 AM
Think of how the six compares to the V8 in performance, that's how Torry's diesel compares to the six. :)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Spule 4
12-27-2006, 11:01 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Think of how the six compares to the V8 in performance, that's how Torry's diesel compares to the six. :)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP


Interesting. As for diesel/gasoline comparison, the only I can make are the W123 Mercedes, I had a 1980 300D non turbo[|)], and a friend I worked for at a shop had a 1981 German grey market 280E[}:)]. Of course, the two were night and day, but even the diesel was very driveable and the 85mph speedo was useless on the interstate as you could peg it with ease[:0]. The performace of the car was actually surprising when you factored the weight and horsepower.

Does the article in TURNING WHEELS have any specs (0-60, top speed, rear end/trans, economy) posted? Is a back issue available for purchase?

Garrett

tstclr
12-27-2006, 11:05 AM
Just think, you could have an eco-friendly Lark if you ran used cooking oil thru it!

Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan
64 Daytona 4dr Sedan

Guido
12-27-2006, 10:10 PM
John,

Off topic, but my Massey 1105 with the 354 was easier starting than my 1650 Oliver was. However, virtually every Oliver diesel crawler (OC-4, OC-6 and OC-9) needed juice to get it going.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Hank
01-02-2007, 07:01 PM
All:
I also am looking for a diesel Lark.

John Kirchhoff
01-02-2007, 11:24 PM
Hey Gary, you know what would be cool? This is another one of my flights of fancy idea that's been lingering in the back of my mind for a long time. A Hawk with a turbocharged 354 Perkins off of a Massey 760 combine. I think they were rated 140hp, it would have the exhaust manifold outlet on the bottom instead of the top like a tractor and you could use a tractor diaphram clutch and button type pressure plate. Mate that up to a 5 speed transmision and I bet you could pull a house down and get good fuel mileage at the same time. It would sound cool with the turbo whine and the clutch wouldn't have your left leg looking like Arnold Swartzenegger's but of course you'd have to replace the front springs with those from a railroad car to keep the bumper off the ground.

Roscomacaw
01-03-2007, 09:36 PM
If I recall right, this was an experimental Lark - with only one being built to test feasibility. After some testing - as a prospective taxi vehicle - the car was made available for sale (which I find quite surprizing).
I don't think there was ever a fleet of them built, so looking for one to own outside of this ONE example would be a futile hope![V]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Guido
01-03-2007, 10:39 PM
Bigsy,

I am going off memory from over 30 years ago when I first saw this car at a show, but I seem to recall someone mentioning that 4 were built. Perhaps Paul Johnson's memory is better than mine.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Transtar60
01-04-2007, 04:06 PM
In the book Studebaker Century, theres a picture of Nate Altman handing over the keys to a diesel Lark and the text mentions "only a few were built" Hard to tell, in automotive terms a few could be three or thirty.
In this case , I would guess a few means about 4.

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Roscomacaw
01-04-2007, 05:17 PM
OK, but either way, it was more of an experiment than an option. Of course, with the ability to deal directly with engineering and the super-secrecy that's only allowed faux fotos of the avant garde Packard V12 when the roof was caving in........

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Transtar60
01-04-2007, 07:02 PM
I think the secrecy was a combination of lack of publicity and the burn barrels of December 1963:D

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Randy_G
01-04-2007, 10:17 PM
So we are saying that only 4 deisels were built? Would the Museum have records of this? And what year were they built I am thinking I have whole new section to cover now.[8D]

Randy_G
www.AutomotiveHistoryOnline.com
http://www.automotivehistoryonline.com/small59.jpg

Transtar60
01-05-2007, 03:20 PM
Randy without physically going thru the archives at SNM or depending on someone who has already done the research , theres no real way to know the exact number, like I said it could be 3 or 4 or more. If the cars were built, there should be a CPO on them.
A good starting place would be to find out what the serial number of Mr.Kirbys diesel Lark is and would give you a time frame to look for CPO's for Larks with diesel engines.

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Kurt
01-05-2007, 06:19 PM
This thread interested me because I grew up on a farm where we had Massey ferguson tractors and Studebaker vehicles. After I left the farm I also worked for a Massey Ferguson dealer as a mechanic. The 3 cylinder diesel engine in the Lark is 153cig engine witha 3.6bore and a 5 inch stroke. This engine was used in 135 and 150 MF tractors and maybe others. In those tractors it was rated at 35-40 HP at the PTO so actual engine HP was higher. So I am guessing that spirited acceleration is not one of this cars virtues. However these engines were very easy on fuel and very reliable. I was thinking though, wouldn't this engine look sweet with a turbo on it?

Kurt
01-05-2007, 06:25 PM
One more thought Perkins engines liked to leak oil, they would havefit right in with the Stude gas engines:D:D

Guido
01-05-2007, 09:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by Kurt
The 3 cylinder diesel engine in the Lark is 153cig engine witha 3.6bore and a 5 inch stroke.
Kurt,

In the picture that I took of the left side of the engine I clearly see 4 fuel lines, so a 3 cylinder it isn't! [:0] I wonder if anyone can do something to enhance the frontal picture to capture the ID tag? It never ocurred to me to record it, but perhaps Frank Drumheller did or Paul Johnson could get it.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Kurt
01-05-2007, 09:57 PM
I stand corrected[^] The engine is likely a 203cid engine similiar to the ones used in MF65 tractors. They had something like 50HP.

mbstude
01-06-2007, 02:07 PM
quote:I wonder if anyone can do something to enhance the frontal picture to capture the ID tag?

Looking at the larger version of the pics that you sent me, Gary; I can barely make out the body #.
It's 63S F3 211. ;)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/lark_id_tag.jpg



___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Scotsman%20pickup/cool_man_3.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/

John Kirchhoff
01-08-2007, 12:21 PM
Hmmm, a modern diesel. At least you'd have something that would handle the low sulfur over the road fuel of today. Run that stuff through the old engines and you're looking at greatly accelerated injection pump wear. Acceleration wise, a comparable hp diesel isn't likely to keep up with a gas engine in an all out race. Cruising yes, racing no. The reciprocating internal parts of diesels must be made heavier to handle the higher initial compression. Accelerating those parts is going to take longer because of the reluctance of inertia. The same way if it has a turbo, there's going to be a bit of turbo lag while the turbo tries to catch up (speed wise) with the engine. For comparable hp, the diesel is going to weight more which will hinder acceleration.

Comparing hp between a diesel and gas engine is a little like comparing apples to oranges because diesels are inherently slower turning engines. The VW diesels red line at 5000 rpm where a more or less comparable gas engine would probably produce usable hp one or two thousand rpm higher. On the flip side, a diesel is going to have more low rpm power since air flow is not restricted (other than the air filter), only fuel. This is why diesels are torquier at low rpm than gas jobs. However, if a small displacement diesel is running high boost with a turbo, at lower engine rpms with low or no boost, the little engine will really hurt for torque although I guess a smaller turbo and wastegate would help. Still there's no getting around the weight problem. A crankshaft, rod, piston and block must be strong enough (strong=weight) to handle X number of hp whether that hp is generated by boost or naturally aspirated. A gas engine can use lightweight reciprocating parts that allow higher rpms and more hp to be made at those rpms. A diesel's weight limits rpm which limits hp, so any thing that increases hp necessitates stronger and heavier parts which limits rpm even more.

Larks aren't exactly the most aerodynamic car ever produced, so that would hurt fuel mileage and top speed. And don't forget the noise factor. But despite it's limitations, I still think a big 6 cylinder turbo diesel in something like a Hawk which has more room under the hood would be really cool. With a 6 speed tranny, acceleration probably wouldn't be too doggy.

Roscomacaw
01-08-2007, 01:37 PM
John writes: "Comparing hp between a diesel and gas engine is a little like comparing apples to oranges..."

John, so's I have an easier time visualizing - which one is represented by the apples and which is the oranges?[}:)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

John Kirchhoff
01-08-2007, 04:57 PM
Mr. Biggs, you're confusing me!!!!!!