Announcement

**barnlark** · 05-24-2009, 10:07 PM

What division were you in? Stock versions are supposed to get an explanation and/or questions of authenticity when deducting points, IIRC. The scribes are not always good at being legible in those little lines and good explanations often are overlooked, it seems. It is a lot of work, though. It is really nice to know what they saw to deduct points, however. One judge's picky deduction is another's no big deal, so maybe they don't want to be questioned later. I've experienced incorrect deductions and passed over for deserving deductions. It seems to balance out, but I would appreciate more thorough judging sheet info, too. I've over tipped restaurant servers for less effort.

**buddymander** · 05-25-2009, 06:19 AM

Deduction explanations would also help to alleviate any suspicion of bias.

**jclary** · 05-25-2009, 06:33 AM

I was at a show Saturday where the judges gave the trophies to their AACA buddies. No judging sheets were given, some were hoods and trunks open, others were not. There were trophies for best ford, best Chevy, best mopar. Classes were ambiguous, sound system was lousy and presentations were awkward. Music was good, food was good, and I really had a good time. However, next year I will fore-go the event in favor of other local cruise-in where there is no charge for registering. Why should anyone pay for an event where the outcome is a foregone conclusion?

John Clary
Greer, SC

I have only two limitations ...BRAINS & ENERGY
SDC member since 1975

**Karl** · 05-25-2009, 06:35 AM

What show was this. All SDC judging is should to have a explaination
for any deductions.AOAI will be adopting the same judging standard shortly.Know what your talking though. Using the judes comment to improve for next time.It is nice to see your car through someone elses eyes. They see things you don't.

**warrlaw1** · 05-25-2009, 06:38 AM

I appreciate that judging is a thankless task, but a wise old judge in a murder trial once gave me a couple of pieces of insight:

1. "Most of what we judges do is psychological" - at that time I wanted to strangle him.

2. "It's far easier to be appealed if you give written reasons." -at that point I lost a little respect for judges.

3. "When conflict erupts, the judge is the first one out of the courtroom" - at that point, I no longer wanted to be a judge.

I appreciate anyone willing to be a volunteer judge at an SDC event. It's real judges I have a problem with, and I'm not allowed to say this.

**Dick Steinkamp** · 05-25-2009, 06:40 AM

Here's the judging manual...

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http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/documents/JudgingPolicyManual.pdf

Every point deduction must have a comment written."

Judging is a thankless task. It's easy to make enemies as a judge. Tough to make friends. It's a long tough day as a judge. You truly give up probably the best day of a meet. While everybody else is having fun, looking at the cars, talking to friends...the judges are not. Judge turnover is huge. If a member does it once, chances are they won't do it again. My guess is that not all (maybe most?) judges have not read the judging manual. Orientation and training prior to judging is minimal (if any) due to the lack of volunteers prior to a meet (they are often "collared" the morning of the concourse).

It's real easy to throw rocks at the judges and the judging process. For those of you that have your cars judged and ARE NOT involved in the process, GET INVOLVED. At a minimum, be a judge at the next Zone Meet or International. Study the manual and the judging forms. Help the Chief Judge improve the process and educate future judges. It's really up to YOU to make judging work...not somebody else.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

**warrlaw1** · 05-25-2009, 07:15 AM

I agree with Dick (he makes more sense than the judges I have to deal with)

**candbstudebakers** · 05-25-2009, 07:38 AM

Having judged at National and Zone meets it is as Dick says and I think every one in SDC knows this, as it has been talked about many times, the area on a judging sheet is small area for comments but we are always told to put then down because it is important that's way we now at nationals have a scribe that does only that and the 4 judges do only judging but still it can be a hassle for the scribe to get every thing down and ready to move on to the next car, in Omaha I judged larks we were on the field from 9:00am until 6

m there were that many cars and all nice ones so come the end of the day don't start bickering about your car or what should have or should have not, I don't don't put cars for judging anymore because people doing judging are only volunteers and in my eyes volunteers don't make mistakes they do the best they can and that is the difference, it has been that way with me ever since I have had anything to do with people that volunteer way back in little league for the kids, so if your car is judged plan on anything and accept it but remarks should and will be there in SDC judging...Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA

**mbstude** · 05-25-2009, 07:48 AM

Judging is a thankless job that usually takes up the entire day at the show. While none of my cars are worthy of being judged, I've been a judge at several shows, even Chief Judge once. And I'd be more than happy to do it again.

Don't like how the judges perform? Give it a try yourself. It ain't easy.

But it IS a great way to learn more about these cars. One time I judged alongside Rene Harger. I learned more about Studebaker interiors that day than I can remember. [^]

A tip for future judges: The "drive-thru" system is the ticket. Anyone who wants to know more about that can email me.

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

**Thomas63R2** · 05-25-2009, 10:45 AM

Stock class, Studebaker show. I do appreciate the judges work, and I am happy with the judges decision - I really enjoyed the show. I am not looking for a book report on my car, but there must have been something that jumped out at each of the judges that could be said in one or two words - which I would find helpful.

I too would encourage others to be a car show judge, its not always easy for event organizers to get enough judges. In two weeks it will be my turn to be a car show judge. I'll have one of my other cars at the show, for display only while I judge the other cars.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

**jimmijim8** · 05-25-2009, 11:44 AM

You don't need no steenking judge to tell you how to have a 400 point car. You need to walk around during the shows and look at better examples of workmanship than your own. Some one always will trump you no matter what. Enjoy your car and forget about who is collecting those cheap trophys. Lots of times they are or are not a true indication of merit. I know a guy who gets trophys at the same shows every year consistently. His car doesn't really change but the judges want to gain his favor because they would like him to perform a certain service to their car and he only has time for the gift givers. jimmijim

**studegary** · 05-25-2009, 05:18 PM

quote:Originally posted by barnlark
[I would appreciate more thorough judging sheet info, too. I've over tipped restaurant servers for less effort.

And how much have you tipped judges for all of their work? <G>

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

**studegary** · 05-25-2009, 05:23 PM

Judges at a large meet only have a short amount of time to evaluate any one vehicle. If you want to know where you will lose points and what you should improve, get someone that is knowledgeable about judging in general and your make and model in particular. Ask them to spend some time going over your vehicle. Accept the input and do not be argumentative. I have provided this service many times.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

**PlainBrownR2** · 05-25-2009, 06:51 PM

We all know Studebaker didn't stick to a single formula for putting together a car, particularly in the special orders department. I also know judges may have a search image of standard things to look for on a car. If you have something that is considered stock, but is rarely seen or unique(we've been at odds in this department over our Avanti wheelcovers, you know, the wire wheels), just like location in real estate, literature, literature, literature. If you can show the judge the sale ad, options list, photographs, what have you, do it. I have a 45 amp Motorola alternator on my Lark. It is not the normal Prestolite 35 or 40 amp that should be there, but it was a fleet setup I picked up from a vendor. The setup included not only the directions, but also the photograph with a time stamp and the name of Studebaker on the belt. Every time I go to have the car judged(yep I have the daily driver judged, lol) I show the judge the photograph which allows me to retain any missing points.

[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/DSC00017-1-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/DSC00015-3-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

Announcement

Open letter to car show judges

Open letter to car show judges

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