Motors Really Stuck

[289stude]

I don't get it, I know the R1 wagon I recently bought has been setting a while. But I pulled the valve covers and no rust nice and oily, The oil on the dipstick looks great, Trans fluid looks new, motor is not greasy. This thing looks like it should run. But It is stuck! Whats my next move, I tried a inch and a half socket with breaker bar, It's been setting for 3 weeks with cylinders full of Aero Kroil, I tried prying on the fly wheel, I broke a chain wrench on the Harminc balancer, what next? I'm not ready to tear the engine down yet. Is there any thing else to try before giving up, or am I wasting my time? This may sound drastic, but I have a hardwood dowl could I tap the piston tops with a hammer and dowl through the spark plug hole, or is that not worth the effort?





John

63' R1 Wagonaire

63' 8E45 Detroit

53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

58' 3E6D Stock Sale Pending

61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto

[DEEPNHOCK]

No.
You will just end up with wood splinters in the cylinder..

quote:Originally posted by 289stude

<snip>
This may sound drastic, but I have a hardwood dowl could I tap the piston tops with a hammer and dowl through the spark plug hole, or is that not worth the effort?
John

[JDP]

Having unstuck a dozen engines over the years, a few just can't be done. If any moisture gets in the cylinders, the pistons will become one with the bore. I had engines that I had to destroy the pistons just to get them out once the engine was on the stand.
You might be able to free it up by pulling the heads and doing the bang on the pistons with a 2x4 thing.

JDP/Maryland

[289stude]

I just don't get it, The piston tops are shiney when you put a light to them, there appears to be no evidence of moisture or corrosion other thatn it won't spin.



John

63' R1 Wagonaire

63' 8E45 Detroit

53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

58' 3E6D Stock Sale Pending

61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto

[buddymander]

Take the heads off. Use some #400 on the cylinders in a circular motion; like honing.

[sweetolbob]

John

It sounds to me that you've reached the point where you need to just keep soaking the cylinders or bite the bullet.

If it were mine, I'd pull the heads, clean the oil out of the cylinders and tap them with a large hardwood block to spread the force over the pistons.

The fact that the oil is good suggests that the lower end is clean and the problem is probably from moisture in the cylinders. A little rust can make it tough to move the pistons.

If you continue to horse the crank, etc. you could due significant damage to them.

The amount of resistance may suggest a fair amount of rust that could affect the valves, etc.

A set of head and intake gaskets is a small cost to save an R motor.

Bob

[jlmccuan]

I don't want to insult, but the plugs are out of all cylinders, right? If you have access to the crank, you might try a lever against the throws.

Jim

____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

[Allan Songer]

The R1 in my '56 Champion came out of a '64 Wagonaire that had been sittng for about 10 years. When I bought it the engine turned with ease. I pulled the motor and put it in the back of the shop for another 15 or so years and when I went to build it for the '56 it was STUCK. I soaked it with Kroil for 3 weeks and tried EVERYTHING. Finally, pulled the pan and removed one rod at a time from the crank and ALL BUT ONE piston slid right out with ease. The last one I had to literally BEAT out with a BFH and a 2x4 and actually BROKE the piston into pieces. There was no evidence of any rust at all other than on the rings which were SOLID rust. I don't think that ANY amount of Kroil or ANY amount of time would have saved that one.

[bams50]

John- it's always cool to awaken a long-dormant engine; hearing it sputter to life after a long spell is a great feeling. But many times it's just not meant to be...

Even if you do get it to turn and run, given what you've done so far it probably will have problems anyway- blowby, tired bearings, low oil pressure, sticky lifters/bent push rods, clogged cooling passages, etc. If I were you I'd pull the front clip (which you were planning to do anyway) and pull the engine/trans. and go through it right; that car deserves it. You gave it a try, but I think reality is that it's beyond simply soaking... read the experiences the others have posted.

Of course, the back-up plan is to sell 'er to me- I'll give her the red-carpet treatment[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131

[candbstudebakers]

John, over the years I have taken a part a lot of Studebaker V-8 engines, some came a part real easy, some we could free up with soaking for a week or so, some we could get to move with a block of wood and a large weight hammer, one I needed to use the torch and cut the rods, I wanted the 289 crank or I would have saved the gas, the last one we did had nice oil upper and lower, was clean in the covers and valley, when we got in to it this is what we found the cause of the problem.



Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA

[Pinchbolt]

I have to agree with what Allan & Mr Bams say on this subject. If you gave it a thorough soaking with a good penetrant , then prolly removing the engine and determining the cause of it being locked is your best option. Corrosion can cause damage that will sour an engine(so that it needs rebuilt), even if you do get it to turn. It may also have some other cause of mechanical interference. Do you know the real reason the car went into hibernation? Maybe someone dropped something into a cylinder or down the carb at one point, or ran it out of oil (or without oil), and refilled it after the fact in an attempt to get it going again. Perseverance and patience will yield the answer. Plus, some luck.

[StudeRich]

John; have you removed the rocker arms and checked for stuck valves, tapping them with a plastic or rawhide hammer? Or with the rockers off, maybe that will free it without the valve load and answer that question.


StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

[kamzack]

Don't be deceived by dipstick oil having the appearance of being clean or oil looking good. As an engine sets the contaminents and additive package drop out of the oil lining the bottom of the oil pan. When you remove the pan, you'll see a good coating of what is referred to as sludge. Also in the natural condensation process, oil vapors mix with moisture and and forms an acid. If an engine that's been setting for a long period and will turn by hand, I'd change oil or remove the pan to be sure the pickup isn't submerged in sludge enough to restrict adequate oil circulation. Thickened oil drawn from the pan bottom will show good oil pressure for short time, so I'm suggesting extreme caution. In the past, I've over filled an engine with diesel fuel and spun with plugs out, messy but effective, twice. Be surprised how dark it becomes. That's on an engine that will turn.
That's my 25 cents worth,(inflation, don't ya know)
Kim
don't hit me too hard

[starlightchamp]

I apologize if this insults you--but--- my son and I tried to turn over a stuck 289 last month. Soaked with PB balaster, tried break bar on flywheel, tried using the starter,etc. No luck. Then I noticed the car moved a smidgeon while we tried to turn it over with the starter
I said, "this dumb car isn't in gear is is it ? It was in first gear. Car had all flat tires.
...Dick

[jd-stude]

On one stuck engine of mine the bellhousing was half full of mouse nests and droppings. The bottom ring gear teeth on it had even rusted away. Once that was removed the engine be could turned.
Ken