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View Full Version : us rust-belt guys might not be so unfortunate....



54-61-62
03-25-2009, 11:13 PM
I live and grew up in the rusty midwest. Patching floors is like second nature to me, I'm used to the lower foot of a car being rusted out toast. I always thought us midwest guys were at a disadvantage in the old car hobby. Well, being burned by a recent experience just reminded me maybe us rust belt guys don't have it so bad....

Midwest lore has it that California cars are the ticket for a rust-free solid car. These following pictures will make us rust belt floor patching guys not feel so bad about living in the midwest. I did win a $20 bet from a buddy who could not believe a california car could ever be so rusty.

Disclamer: I realize that this particular 'black plated' lark wagon is not indicative of all California cars, but roof jungle rot is sure a concern if I ever buy another car from out west. When was the last time one saw a rotted roof and upper structure rotted on an Indiana car. Sure is easier to patch floors then roof drip edge and roof structure.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/deliriouskenny/roof3.jpg?t=1238040654

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/deliriouskenny/roof2.jpg?t=1238040683

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/deliriouskenny/roof.jpg?t=1238040719

ChampTrucking
03-25-2009, 11:18 PM
WOW!

Cravin
03-25-2009, 11:46 PM
Looks like my 75 Dodge van roofline, salt air works its magic from the top down.

mahseer
03-26-2009, 12:28 AM
People need to look at a map and understand how big and diverse Cali is. A car being from CA dosen't guarantee anything. The only places that are relatively sure bets are the Central Valley, the High Desert and any of the Low Desert areas (Palm Desert, Imperial Valley etc.) Even within my county (San Diego)you can find a tremendous variation in how cars hold up. You can forget anything from the coast for the most part.

StudeRich
03-26-2009, 01:54 AM
My guess is it sat under a tree with leaves on it for 30 plus years, it would not make much difference WHERE the car was stored, the gutter rot would be the same!

It looks like it WAS a '60 4 Dr. Lark Wagon.

bams50
03-26-2009, 04:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

My guess is it sat under a tree with leaves on it for 30 plus years, it would not make much difference WHERE the car was stored, the gutter rot would be the same!


I don't think so. I've never seen that in the Northeast- except in cars imported from CA[xx(] Funny, those who crow about how we're nuts to fix rust-belt cars and how it's worth spending a grand to have a CA shipped to us never seem to bring up the roof rust... or the rust in other much harder to repair areas... nor do they mention how completely fried their interiors get, as compared to ours that don't get that

As mentioned, inland cars have less upper rust than coastal cars; but I have yet to see a CA car advertised that specifies which it is... and they all seem to have the crispy interiors:( It's MUCH cheaper and easier to fix a rusted floor or lower body than a roof, or upper door, or upper pillar. And as a bonus, CA cars frequently have floor rust anyway, due to the weatherstrip getting cooked and allowing water to leak in.

Certainly CA cars can be better off, and worth shipping; but as Kent demonstrates, that is NOT always automatically the case! Thanks for sharing that lesson, Kent!



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

[b]"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

4961Studebaker
03-26-2009, 07:50 AM
Did you keep the roof sheet metal cut out???? If so find a hot rod place that needs to fill a 34 ford coupe, or 5 window, and SELL it to them, the contour fits perfectly ;)

Not to scare anyone, but the old roof skin of my 61, now resides on this Champaign colored car in the link. Sorry no tiny url.

So roof rot car or not, its still a value to a metal worker or the car hobby.

http://www.streetrodbuilder.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=E1D60BAF1C5F4CD7AC927D86BF4DB877&nm=Articles&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&AudID=CAABC04124864AFC82D9CEC69C0E29ED&tier=2&did=34ED1D83C2024FB5A61C5849070FA82D&dtxt=SRB+April+2008

ChopStu
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q14/kkad0711/IMG_5406-1.jpg

54-61-62
03-26-2009, 08:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by mahseer

The only places that are relatively sure bets are the Central Valley, the High Desert and any of the Low Desert


Lore had it that this wagon spent its life since new in the central valley, but who knows. However,I know for certain that it spent the last 20 years in the valley.

Swifster
03-26-2009, 09:21 AM
Florida cars get a version of roof rot as well. As mentioned, coastal cars get it worse.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/rollingpi.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/01-01-05TheStartingPoint.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/07-17-07FrontClipRemoved.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/04-11-08CoolingFan.jpg

Jeff_H
03-26-2009, 10:09 AM
Mice can do this too. I had holes above the windshield on my '53 from mice living inside the roof rail channel there. Rot from the inside out. Very difficult repair.

Jeff in ND
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/ee-engineer/Snowscenetiny.jpg
'53 Champion Hardtop

studebaker-R2-4-me
03-26-2009, 10:23 AM
Kent,

Is this what you drove to California for?

You like me have all the luck,...bad luck. It sure looks like you've got the repair under control. Good luck with it.

See you in a few weeks.

Allen

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/Side.jpg
1964 R2 GT Hawk
http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/th_IMGP0662-2.jpg
1963 Daytona Convertible
Oakville, Ontario.
Hamilton Chapter
See you in Cedar Rapids Summer 2009

candbstudebakers
03-26-2009, 10:30 AM
I have always stated we get rust in California in the floors if they sit out with carpet left in and get wet, true any car that lives close to the coast has problems but close is almost with in sight of the ocean, some of the worst cars I have parted out came from area with in sight of the pacific, 46 double dater so bad you would cut your hands trying to open the trunk, a 61 hawk from San Francisco with in sight of the pacific it looked like the worst car I had ever seen in Minnesota, just last month I looked at a 64 cruiser 2 blocks from the ocean for a person in Delaware, this car was there from the start but always keep in side and was perfect, so one never knows, there a few forum members out here that will take time to check out cars for anyone that would like just ask....Bob Peterson

scott.rodgers
03-26-2009, 10:46 AM
My 60 Lark HT had perfect floors when I bought it in the 90's. Imagine my surprise when my screwdriver went through the sheet metal above the trim on the top of the doors. The roof has lots of hidden rust problems, just like in the pictures above. It's going to be a bear to fix. But everything else was rust free (and the frame still had its chalk marks) - weird.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire

61Lark
03-26-2009, 11:47 AM
quote:[i]....a 61 hawk from San Francisco with in sight of the pacific it looked like the worst car I had ever seen in Minnesota

Bob I hope that isn't true. About the only original sheet metal on my 61 wagon is the roof. This is a car that spent most of its time around the Mississippi River here in Minnesota, but I wonder if it didn't spend some of that time in it. :D

Nick

Swifster
03-26-2009, 12:39 PM
When I bought the Daytona from the Lake Tahoe area, I had asked for pictures of the floors and rocker panels. I'm glad when I drove out there that the roof wasn't rusty. At the time I never thought to ask.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/rollingpi.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/01-01-05TheStartingPoint.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/07-17-07FrontClipRemoved.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/04-11-08CoolingFan.jpg

silverhawk
03-26-2009, 01:21 PM
Wow, that is bad! How are going to fix it out of curiousity?

Dylan Wills

'61 lark deluxe 4 door wagon

mahseer
03-26-2009, 02:13 PM
My 60 2 door sedan spent 20 years in Porterville, CA and the rest in and around LA. It's even the same color as the wagon pictured above. It has zero rust through on the drip rails. Everything mentioned about the baked interior and door rubber is definitely true though. When rain get's in the doors and then under the original rubber mats, the floors are history for sure. I guess it's just a very complicated mix of circumstances that affect the level and rate of corrosion.

starliner62
03-26-2009, 03:02 PM
Make a convertible wagon!![}:)] I can't say much. At least it beats watching the road go by under your feet!

Jamie McLeod
Hope Mills, NC

55s
03-26-2009, 05:31 PM
Kent, if all the rest is pretty good, I have a wagon roof you can have.

Paul

StudeRich
03-26-2009, 06:48 PM
I guess it goes without saying that you ARE scrapping the Wagon right Kent? Or maybe a better word is RECYCLING.
Once I saw those door frames cut off and riddled full of holes I was pretty sure it was done, with those door posts off, the body will fall apart and be junk. :(

bams50
03-26-2009, 07:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

I guess it goes without saying that you ARE scrapping the Wagon right Kent? Or maybe a better word is RECYCLING.
Once I saw those door frames cut off and riddled full of holes I was pretty sure it was done, with those door posts off, the body will fall apart and be junk. :(


Where do you come up with that? Nowhere near correct! They don't come close to falling apart with the roof off, unless the frame and floors are totally gone as well.

I see you don't know Kent... at his young age, he's done more of this work than most people of ANY age. If he is fixing this car, he knows what he's doing.

I'm guessing the subject of this thread embarrasses you a little- you never miss a chance to shoot down all NE cars as never worth 2 cents because they're all completely consumed by road salt- which is of course wrong and foolish. I like it, because it keeps you and anyone who would fall into that trap from outbidding us on excellent cars over here. But it is really misleading to hide from the truth about WC cars- and situations like this are the result[}:)] Too many unsuspecting Easterners believed the hype that all WC cars are wonderfully rust-free, only to pay big bucks to get one shipped and find what Kent found. Then to try to hide it further by saying it must have sat under leaves?? Come on, now!

You're a good guy, and a valuable member of the Stude world; but please, give us a break on the cheap digs[xx(]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

mbstude
03-26-2009, 08:38 PM
Ease up, fellas. Kent has restored more than his fair share of cars, and done more rot work that I could ever dream of doing. He was pretty excited about this California wagon. This unexpected rust issue, along with the combination of a few other things, has caused him to part this car out. But no worries, he'll be saving many more cars, I'm sure. :)


Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/car003.jpg

63t-cab
03-26-2009, 08:40 PM
I have to say Bob just hit it top dead center!he can see in his mind rust that is'nt evan there to the average guy,being from the body business helps. a buddy of mine moved to MO.23 years ago,and says that there were rustfree Studebakers 20 years ago,but not any more. another fella was gonna sell me some rustfree CA. sheetmetal,though when I looked at it,it was rusted out.he says well it,s not from sand and salt like from back East! it must have been from sitting in the mud out there?my only and best suggestion to him was,well rust is rust,and went home empty handed!!! after all these are Studebakers we are talking about.

Joseph R. Zeiger

barnlark
03-26-2009, 09:19 PM
Wet, salt air does some nasty stuff to a roof. I've seen it much worse, but that one's a drag. Sorry, Kent.

StudeRich
03-27-2009, 11:01 AM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

[quote]quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

/Cut/Once I saw those door frames cut off and riddled full of holes I was pretty sure it was done, with those door posts off, the body will fall apart and be junk. :(



Where do you come up with that? Nowhere near correct! They don't come close to falling apart with the roof off, unless the frame and floors are totally gone as well./Cut/
I'm guessing the subject of this thread embarrasses you a little-

I don't think so Bob, I said NOTHING about the roof!

Not at all correct Bob, I have seen and owned all kinds of Western "out in the weather" rust buckets, and on another recent post I warned about the "Coastal" West Coast cars, after all I own 20 of them right now! All junk, beyond a Western cost effective repair, would a East Coast person restore these? Yes, if they were there, in a heartbeat!

That is because the crucial part of a Studebaker, the frames (their weak point) are perfectly fine (unlike Eastern examples) and floors are minimal rust, roofs are fine, except those parked under trees (I have some that every area where leaves can stay: cowl, behind rear glass, drip rails etc. are full of holes) it's mostly in the fenders and body to fender join areas from too much moisture exposure.

Actually Bob, a strong possibility is that Kent's car was stored on grass with a plastic tarp over it, so when the winter rain condensed inside, the warm Calif. sun later raised it into the roof side rails where it rusted it out over the years, or it was helped by rodents.
This is not at all common, as you infer.

Un-garaged cars in the wrong climate, are and always will be a serious challenge to restore, or way beyond practical possibility, no matter which Coast they are on!

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/My64Daytona.jpg
StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

showbizkid
03-27-2009, 03:25 PM
About 20 years ago I worked with a guy who lived at the beach. I mean, right ON the beach. He parked his new car on the street, and between the salt and the sun, the paint on the roof went south within 3 years. One day, he wakes up to go to work and finds that some beach partiers had decided, the night before, to take a drunk walk down the street using all the parked cars as their sidewalk; the roof to his car was pushed in about a foot. He got in and gave the headliner a shove to push the roof back up - and his fist went through the roof amid a shower of rust flakes. (The kicker is, he was such a cheapwad that he put cardboard in the hole and papered over it with plastic-coated Con-Tac paper and drove it two more years.)

Yes, salt air can be a booger!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

jeryst
03-28-2009, 01:15 AM
quote:Originally posted by showbizkid

About 20 years ago I worked with a guy who lived at the beach. I mean, right ON the beach. He parked his new car on the street, and between the salt and the sun, the paint on the roof went south within 3 years. One day, he wakes up to go to work and finds that some beach partiers had decided, the night before, to take a drunk walk down the street using all the parked cars as their sidewalk; the roof to his car was pushed in about a foot. He got in and gave the headliner a shove to push the roof back up - and his fist went through the roof amid a shower of rust flakes. (The kicker is, he was such a cheapwad that he put cardboard in the hole and papered over it with plastic-coated Con-Tac paper and drove it two more years.)

Yes, salt air can be a booger!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com


Just curious, but if his hand went through the roof when he tried to push it up, why didnt the persons foot go down through the roof when it was initially stepped on the night before?