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**BobPalma** · 03-23-2009, 05:45 PM

quote:Originally posted by 289stude

has my front clip been changed or not? Every pic I've seen of a 63' has the 62 style front clip. And every pic I've seen of a 64 has different side trim.

It looks to me that Delihla is either a 63' with 64 front end, or a 64' with 63 Daytona side trim.

Would there have been any reason for a 64' to come with 63 side trim or a 63' with 64 sttel up front? when I was looking at it i never even picked up that something was arye, it looked as if it was born that way.
John

John: Quite simply, someone installed a 1964 doghouse/front clip on your 1963 Wagonaire, period.

It looks like they adapted some 1964 Commander front fender trim to more-or-less "match" the side trim that begins on the front door of 1963 Daytonas. In fact, I bet if you pull off the 1964-style engine emblem from the leading edge of the front fender, you'll find shadows of the word Commander in script on each front fender.

The 1963 model year is verified because everything but the front clip looks genuine 1963 and the Serial Number plate affixed to the body tub proper on the driver door pillar post, begins 63V, indicating a 1963 model year car.

There's no need to make this any more complicated than that, because that's what happened!

Edit: BTW: The car has 1957 wheel covers on it, too.

BP

**Jeff_H** · 03-23-2009, 05:51 PM

Not to hi-jack this thread too much, but...

What wheel covers are those ? The centers look like some I have seen on '56-'57s but the outer portion looks different [?]

Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop

**StudeRich** · 03-23-2009, 10:49 PM

quote:Originally posted by Jeff_H

Not to hi-jack this thread too much, but...
What wheel covers are those ? The centers look like some I have seen on '56-'57s but the outer portion looks different [?]

The 1956 Wheel Covers are NOT the same as '57, they are quite plain except the Crest in the center, while these '57's are way more stylish, with the Black trim.

John; when you get this car home you will see that it has a '63 dash with the glove box that opens on top of the dash instead of in front like most do, like a '64. Also red cross hair X's on the black faced Instruments, unless the FO put the dash from the '64 in there! Lol! [:0]

Anytime you see multiple modifications like the Super Lark grille emblem, the R1 Powered engine I.D. fender emblems in the wrong place, the '57 Wheel Covers etc. like this on a car, you can expect things like a '64 front end swap with mouldings that will never match.

In the late 1960's and 1970's you could buy any and all Studebaker parts very cheap, and since almost everything Studebaker did to upgrade or change the different year models is Bolt-On, you too could play auto designer! [^] And trust me, lot's of Stude. owners did. I could write a book on the changes I have seen, did a few myself, I did! [:0]

StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

**bams50** · 03-24-2009, 02:25 AM

I loved it even more when I found out it was a 63[:X] I thought it was a 64 with the 63 trim added. I like the 63 nose and trim much better myself- but if it were mine I probably would stay with the 64 nose because the fenders are MUCH cheaper and easier to find- including plentiful NOS. Last year at York there was a pair of excellent used 64 fenders, with trim and inners, for $25! I had no use for them, but would have bought them on the spot had someone else not just beat me to them[:I]

BTW- a 64 just turned up on eBay if you want to see one in that color, with the plainer 64 side trim:

http://tinyurl.com/c6sn89

Can not wait to see pix of it cleaned up, and shots of the interior[

]

I'm such a Lark nerd

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

**Bredehoft** · 03-24-2009, 02:26 AM

that looks like a 1968 Mustang remote control driver's side mirror, too.

--george

1963 Lark Daytona HT - 63V J8 175
53-54 C/Ks, 55 Speedsters, 63 Daytonas, Wagonaires Registries

**barnlark** · 03-24-2009, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by StudeRich
"In the late 1960's and 1970's you could buy any and all Studebaker parts very cheap, and since almost everything Studebaker did to upgrade or change the different year models is Bolt-On, you too could play auto designer! [^] And trust me, lot's of Stude. owners did. I could write a book on the changes I have seen, did a few myself, I did!" [:0]

That's why I am leery whenever I see ads for cars, or read the line, "it sat for over 30 tears untouched, I'm sure it's original from the factory that way". There could have been simple things like an incorrect clock installed early one and now it looks original. Museum P.O.s can legitimize some things, but not all. Some of you watched dealers change things well after the fact, too, just to confuse us forty or more years later! Some were done very well and others were not, leaving little doubt as to the changes. When large dollars change hands on eBay or Craigslist over an improperly described clone, or rebuild swap, that's where it gets dicey to me.
Speaking of that, whatever happened to that Beautiful 1001 GT Hawk in Vegas that we were wondering about and ended up pulled off? Did that get sorted out and resurface? Was it the real thing? Really neat car. [^]

**289stude** · 03-24-2009, 04:36 AM

Bob Palma ran the vin and said she was born R1 HD flightomatic Disk brakes ect. and it is a 63'. did 63's have R1 badging? I'm a little new to the details of these types of cars.

John

53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

58' 3E6D Stock Sale Pending

61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto

**BobPalma** · 03-24-2009, 05:19 AM

quote:Originally posted by 289stude

Bob Palma ran the vin and said she was born R1 HD flightomatic Disk brakes ect. and it is a 63'. did 63's have R1 badging? I'm a little new to the details of these types of cars.
John

John: A 4-digit (after the 63V) Serial Number is too early to have had any exterior badging to "report" an R1 engine being under the hood. Had it been built after about March 15 1963, it would have had rectangular (not oval, which was 1964 only) emblems lower on the front fenders. They would have said Avanti - Powered. Those emblems would have been on each front fender, approximately forward of the lower door hinges and halfway between the back of the wheel opening and the rearmost edge of the front fenders.

If the car was a Full Package high-performance car, it would also have had a round grille emblem lower on the driver side of the grille. But Full-Package cars with grille emblems weren't available until after March 15 as well, so the car was too early to have had either a full package or a grille emblem.

BP

**289stude** · 03-24-2009, 05:38 AM

Thanks Bob

I know its my choice, and it's probably not going to make a lot of difference $$$ wise, so should I leave it the way it is or put it back to original. I have looked back through all the users picks on this forum and did not find a single Wagonaire Daytona, let alone a R1. My plans are to put it all original and add the correct R2 components, and make no irreversible modificationa.

John

53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

58' 3E6D Stock Sale Pending

61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto

**BobPalma** · 03-24-2009, 05:51 AM

quote:Originally posted by 289stude

Thanks Bob

I know its my choice, and it's probably not going to make a lot of difference $$$ wise, so should I leave it the way it is or put it back to original. I have looked back through all the users picks on this forum and did not find a single Wagonaire Daytona, let alone a R1. My plans are to put it all original and add the correct R2 components, and make no irreversible modifications.
John

John: It will make a lot of difference if you leave it as is or put it back together as a 1963 model. The current hermaphrodite configuration has little value. If you leave it as a 1963 with a 1964 front end, few people (if any) will want it down the road.

So, by all means, acquire a 1963 "doghouse" and return it to 1963 configuration if you value your time at all. (Of course, it is your car. If you are going to keep it forever and could care less about resale value, then you could leave it as a half-and-half.)

If it still has the R1 in it, you'll want to price the cost of converting it to an R2 before you start taking it apart. The cost of "R2-ing" the car will be substantial.

BP

**289stude** · 03-24-2009, 05:58 AM

Thanks Bob,

I am kind of a purist, and it is a fairly rare car. I will be on the hunt for the correct components. It does have the original motor, I remembered it as soon as you posted the JT1304 the other day. I also have a lead on a 63-64 R2 avanti parts car. the blower, carb, intake manifold, & dist. are all gone but the block, powershift, chassis, & body shell are there. I may trade that whole car for nessecary R2 parts to bolt onto JT1304.

John

53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

58' 3E6D Stock Sale Pending

61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto

**sals54** · 03-24-2009, 06:39 AM

289Stude,
Be aware that the R2 stuff will not just "bolt on" to make your R1 into an R2. The compression on the R1 is 10:1. The R2 would require 9:1 or less to work well. That means changing pistons or heads or both.

sals54

**289stude** · 03-24-2009, 07:00 AM

well maybe I'll have to keep the pistons and heads off the Avanti donor also, would there be a difference in the JT R1 serial # and an R2 serial #

John

53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

58' 3E6D Stock Sale Pending

61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto

**BobPalma** · 03-24-2009, 07:21 AM

quote:Originally posted by 289stude

well maybe I'll have to keep the pistons and heads off the Avanti donor also, would there be a difference in the JT R1 serial # and an R2 serial #

John

John: By Serial Number, do you mean the engine's or the car's?

If the car was originally an R2, it would not have changed the Serial Number: all the 63V means in the Serial Number is that it was a V-8; no more, no less.

If the engine had originally been an R2, the engine Serial Number would have had the prefix JTS instead of JT.

The Production Order at the museum will always reflect the car having been shipped with JT1304, so if anyone questions it having an R2 down the road, documentation will always exist that it was not built that way.

BP

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