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showbizkid
03-20-2009, 01:07 AM
http://tinyurl.com/cdbtm3

Looks like a nice car, but I'm nowhere near being an expert on these! Serial # seems to indicate a Vernon-built car; can't read the body plate (it almost looks like it's been removed). Currently at 18K with 8 days to go.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

bondobilly
03-20-2009, 08:00 AM
Sharp car, but I question the antennas. I would guess they lost the back up lights and used the holes for them. Very nice looking.

jimmijim8
03-20-2009, 09:11 AM
Tis a nice car. You're probably right on the antennas. I have seen Harley turn signal lights substituted for the real back up lights. White or clear plastic lenses are available. jimmijim

kmul221
03-20-2009, 09:40 AM
I thought P/s & P/B were standard on 56J ? Nice looking car Ray Martin has one the same colour.

bondobilly
03-20-2009, 09:54 AM
quote:Originally posted by kmul221

I thought P/s & P/B were standard on 56J ? Nice looking car Ray Martin has one the same colour.
Actually very few items were standard on a 56J. You got a special steering wheel, a vacuum guage, and better carpeting, plus a four piece hardboard headliner and I believe an oil filter, other than that everything else was an option.

showbizkid
03-20-2009, 10:59 AM
I was struck by the appearance of the upholstery. The seat insert fabric looks odd to me; almost like it's too modern. But like I said, I know very little about what's right and wrong on these cars - just know I like 'em!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

bondobilly
03-20-2009, 11:25 AM
Looking at it further, the upholstery looks almost correct to my eyes. There was a fabric offered in the seating surfaces, with a metallic weave. BUT they forgot to put in the ash trays. Forget if you smoke or don't smoke, the ash trays are missing. Another issue is the head liner.The lack of the hardboard headliner to me, takes away a lot of the car's "design" I can question the color dash pad, but, it could have come that way. It is also missing the front bumper guards.

I will bet there is a high reserve, and someone who does not know 56J's will buy it. It is a nice looking car, not totaly correct, but it shows well. Somebody went to a great deal of work and put in a lot of money into that car. As JP says, will he get his money back?

jimmijim8
03-20-2009, 12:19 PM
I think the interior may not be stock done up but it is very tastefully done. I had a 56 Power hawk with that same style steering wheel and horn ring. I believe it was an option available for the Power and Flight models. Don' t know about Sky. My PH also had the chrome plated front fender extensions or filler piece stampings located at the foremost bottom of the front fender which is mostly obscured by the bumper wrap around. Saftey oriented engine compartment fuel lines. Wish I could afford the car. jimmijim

bondobilly
03-20-2009, 01:13 PM
I took another couple of close looks. The engine has the old style wire holders which do make the ignition wires neater. BUT, the anti-kink rod is totally bent and missing the rubbers in the center.

Problem is that the more we look, the more we might find wrong or wrong based on VIN number. I am confused as to why the body number tag looks to be blue.

Back out to the garage.....the engine is painted, and now we got to put everything back together.

PackardV8
03-20-2009, 02:32 PM
Beautiful car and well-worth a serious look. No one here nor on the auction description has mentioned the Packard Caribbean 2x4bbl intake not being OEM. It is a definite plus to me, but a point-deduction in a judged show. A very few little tweeks; bumper guards, ignition wire looms, OEM single Carter WCFB, correct antennae are inexpensive and easy. The headliner is a more expensive correction. Me, I'd just be out on the highway winding it up in second overdrive!

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

bondobilly
03-20-2009, 02:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

Beautiful car and well-worth a serious look. The headliner is a more expensive correction. Me, I'd just be out on the highway winding it up in second overdrive!

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8
I agree, it is just that I am a stickler for accuracy, a syndrome that has followed me thru life, and makes me feel like an outsider at times. While my car does not measure up to this car in fit and finish, I enjoy knowing that I came close as I could in accuracy, probably no big deal in the scope of things but thats what makes horse racing

black56hawk
03-20-2009, 06:22 PM
Well, the cloth part of the upholstery is not correct. The firewall should be painted lower body color. Antennae are not correct, headliner is not correct, spark plug holders are not correct, exhaust tips are not correct, dash pad should be black, steering wheel should be white, pedals should be black, engine decals are missing, should have front bumper guards, park lenses look old/deteriorated, "Studebaker" nameplate missing from front fenders, etc., etc.

The dual quad setup is also not correct, but at least some were installed by dealers back in the day (with different air cleaners, of course).

If you want correct info (with some pics for illustration), just go to the 56J website and click on the "Authenticity Guide."

Yeah, some of this is nitpicking, but some is not, especially for a high-dollar car that is supposed to have had a complete "professional" restoration.

And no, my 56 Golden Hawk does not look this nice (yet). [}:)]

N8N
03-20-2009, 06:30 PM
I believe that those exhaust tips *are* correct, unless I wasn't looking close enough. Early 56Js did not have "Studebaker" script on fenders. Firewall is lower body color on SB built cars only - if this is a Vernon built car then upper body color firewall is correct. I think the firewall tag is raw and that the blue tint may just be a reflection/artifact - can't really tell from the photos though. Not sure about the seats, but you're right about the headliner, antennae, steering wheel. (the latter is understandable; until recently, a good condition 56J wheel was unobtanium) I think you may be right about the dash pad but I don't know for sure. I'm guessing that the pedals have either masking tape or plastic on them to keep them from getting barfed up moving the car around but again the pics aren't good enough to tell. One thing nobody's mentioned - shouldn't all the engine bolts be painted; weren't the engines originally painted *after* assembly? Don't get me wrong, I did the same thing to my '55 engine (using stainless bolts) as I feel it gives a nicer appearance, but that ain't the way the factory did it. Couple minutes with a rattle can will fix that though.

That all said, if the underside of the car is as nice as the pics would lead one to believe, I'd still be proud to have that car in my driveway. My biggest nit to pick is the color; I just don't like it (but it IS correct!) The dual quads, stickshift, and lack of PS/PB would go a long way towards offsetting my dislike of the color however! The rest of the authenticity issues... I'd pick away at them one by one if they really bothered me. Or not. Probably the first thing I'd do is replace the steering box with an early Champion Saginaw box, which would be another authenticity deduction :)

This could easily be a show car with the right headliner and steering wheel and other minor details... a correct trunk mat would be nice too but good luck finding one of THOSE... I'd leave the dual quads and take the deductions. Who cares about points when you've got DUAL QUADS...?

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

black56hawk
03-20-2009, 06:42 PM
Also, FYI, according to the production order, this Golden hawk was originally equipped with automatic transmission, power steering, and power brakes.

VIN 6800251 (from the ebay listing)
Body Number 576 (from the production order)
Engine number S2164 (ditto)

And I have to correct myself. The VIN would indicate an LA built car, and so the firewall should be the same color as the inner fenders.

Edit - N8, you're right about the Studebaker fender emblems; they weren't added until after VIN 6800355.

jimmijim8
03-20-2009, 10:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by N8NNate, I always read your posts first, You're always a good read. jimmijim

I believe that those exhaust tips *are* correct, unless I wasn't looking close enough. Early 56Js did not have "Studebaker" script on fenders. Firewall is lower body color on SB built cars only - if this is a Vernon built car then upper body color firewall is correct. I think the firewall tag is raw and that the blue tint may just be a reflection/artifact - can't really tell from the photos though. Not sure about the seats, but you're right about the headliner, antennae, steering wheel. (the latter is understandable; until recently, a good condition 56J wheel was unobtanium) I think you may be right about the dash pad but I don't know for sure. I'm guessing that the pedals have either masking tape or plastic on them to keep them from getting barfed up moving the car around but again the pics aren't good enough to tell. One thing nobody's mentioned - shouldn't all the engine bolts be painted; weren't the engines originally painted *after* assembly? Don't get me wrong, I did the same thing to my '55 engine (using stainless bolts) as I feel it gives a nicer appearance, but that ain't the way the factory did it. Couple minutes with a rattle can will fix that though.

That all said, if the underside of the car is as nice as the pics would lead one to believe, I'd still be proud to have that car in my driveway. My biggest nit to pick is the color; I just don't like it (but it IS correct!) The dual quads, stickshift, and lack of PS/PB would go a long way towards offsetting my dislike of the color however! The rest of the authenticity issues... I'd pick away at them one by one if they really bothered me. Or not. Probably the first thing I'd do is replace the steering box with an early Champion Saginaw box, which would be another authenticity deduction :)

This could easily be a show car with the right headliner and steering wheel and other minor details... a correct trunk mat would be nice too but good luck finding one of THOSE... I'd leave the dual quads and take the deductions. Who cares about points when you've got DUAL QUADS...?

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

PeterHawk
03-20-2009, 10:59 PM
This car is in my neck of the woods (Western New York). If anybody wants me to followup on the sale or anything else, please advise.

bondobilly
03-26-2009, 09:02 AM
It is at $35,000 and has not met reserve. I think at that price corrctness now plays an important part in a buying decision

jbwhttail
03-26-2009, 02:00 PM
first thing I noticed was the badge on the front grill is missing

It is an addiction!

bondobilly
03-26-2009, 02:27 PM
I have already been attacked over my stating that the car is not correct. I was informed that no 56J was/is ever correct, and I should not post about what I believe is incorrect. I was politely told to shut up.

Add the grille badge to the list. While a great looking car, I stick to my guns. Somebody buys it and shows up at a Studebaker National and gets his butt kicked for everything wrong/missing...... how is he or she goingto feel after coughing up over $35K ???

showbizkid
03-26-2009, 10:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by bondobilly

I have already been attacked over my stating that the car is not correct. I was informed that no 56J was/is ever correct, and I should not post about what I believe is incorrect. I was politely told to shut up.

Well who the heck told you that, and who died and made them Studebaker Forum Sheriff?

Billy, you are free to say whatever you like in one of my posts (subject to Bob Shaw's laws, of course). That goes for everyone else, too - say what you like. This is supposed to be a place for a free exchange of ideas and opinions, yeah?


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

bondobilly
03-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Now aat $40,000 and not meeting reserve. Anyone undestand why the car is reahing this high of bidding?

I was asked this morning what a "correct" car would fetch, if this one is at $40K. ???

If this car sells over $40K and has these issues, will nearly correct or SDC winning cars set a new value for 56J's?

What is Joe Bacon's car worth if this one is at $40K. What is mine worth now?

jbwhttail
03-27-2009, 03:59 PM
Bondobilly, thank you for the indirect compliment of my car:D. I believe the price currently on the 56J mentioned is a result of the workmanship presented and has nothing to do with just how authentic the car is. If a person were to purchase a 56J in any condition (driver or non operable) it would be impossible to aquire show quality parts and restore a car to this level for $40,000.00. Even if you did it yourself and valued your labor at $10.00 per hour. I have kept a detailed list of "costs"(without my labor) on my car and $40,000.00 would not cover the dollars spent. JDP's recent GT Hawk is another example, the money spent by the previous owner MADE that car a 399 point car.

I watch Ebay and the prices of both reserves and selling prices, most generally the selling price is what the "general public" is willing to pay. There are exceptions, such as when a museum purchases a car, but for the most part it is what the public will pay. Equally important are the sales that happen outside of Ebay that are never reported or seen by members here or SDC members. A tactic used is to advertise a car or part with a "reserve" so high the seller knows it will not be sold, this gathers the interested buyers. Once the auction is over a "sale" is completed. Ebay is cheap advertising world wide and......... taxable income can be hidden. Also we never see the private sale individual to individual. There are car collectors out there who have money to spend even in todays economy.

While at SB in 2007 I was offered far more than what this car is presently at. A few weeks ago a local person offered more also. My point being, Ebay DOES NOT set the standard.

I've always said that "everything I own has a price", I guess that is true when I'm tired of that "something"......... I'm not tired of my 56J yet. I can't imagine a day when "Bondo" doesn't have a question or a comment on his "Hawk from Hell",because it was sold to the highest bidder.

It is an addiction!

bondobilly
03-27-2009, 04:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by jbwhttail

I can't imagine a day when "Bondo" doesn't have a question or a comment on his "Hawk from Hell",because it was sold to the highest bidder.

It is an addiction!


We have two children in our household, Robin who gets married 3/13/10 and the Hawk. One will leave the nest and the other will remain. You are correct about the cost of restoration. If the seller's tactic is to drive up prices and then sell for less off E-bay, so be it. I am interested in seeing his reserve. His response to me about the ash trays were off the wall, just because there are ash trays does not mean folks have to smoke.

When I use Robin's car when she takes our Navigator to the Outer Banks with a bunch of people, I don't smoke in her car, thats the rule, but there are ash trays in it.

I just increase the value of my Hawk by $12.00, I spent a bit over $460 to detail the engine. Plus another $450 for a re-cored radiator.

The real big difference between your show car and mine is I drive the hell out of it. If I had the money and could afford your car, I could not bring myself to drive it. Your car requires velvet ropes around it.

showbizkid
03-27-2009, 05:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by bondobilly

I don't smoke in her car, thats the rule, but there are ash trays in it.

That's what those things are? I always thought they were for gum wrappers :D[:o)]


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

DMB-8
03-27-2009, 08:04 PM
I am sure that the material on the seats is correct as I have had one that had the same material on it.My current one has the same material only in gray but with the silver in the material.I am not so sure about the dash pad As I have never seen any color but black.The car is very nice but the price seems very high.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/DMB-8/56museum2.jpg

billmdonn
03-27-2009, 08:05 PM
Similar car, only brought $22,000. I know you can't tell much from photos, but this car looks good to me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1956-GOLDEN-HAWK-MATCHINE-NUMBER-PACKARD-352-ENGINE_W0QQitemZ150332598917QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item150332598 917&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

"I know nothing"

Sargent Schultz

jbwhttail
03-28-2009, 05:10 PM
"The real big difference between your show car and mine is I drive the hell out of it. If I had the money and could afford your car, I could not bring myself to drive it. Your car requires velvet ropes around it.".........Bondo


We both have show cars Bondo, yours is daily and mine is on weekends only:D. During nice weather there is rarely a weekend my 56J is not on the roads of central Indiana. If the distance to travel is more than 50 miles one way it then goes into the trailer. Just like a studebaker model of choice , so is the restoration and care of restoration.

Back to the car mentioned setting a "standard" for price, it didn't make the reserve so I guess we will not havea new standard. What we do have is an interested buyer out there who is willing to pay over $40K for a nice car. "Someone" will fill that need.........

It is an addiction!

showbizkid
03-30-2009, 07:59 AM
Wow. $45,100 and no sale.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

PackardV8
04-02-2009, 09:50 PM
It's a display ad in this month's Hemmings asking $58,000 with less than grammatically-correct copywriting attempting to connect the Packard V8 with WWII PT boat and aircraft engines.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

jimmijim8
04-03-2009, 10:17 AM
j