PDA

View Full Version : Why cant we have a CLASSIFIED section?



jeryst
03-18-2009, 03:14 PM
I belong to at least a half dozen automotive forums, and ALL of them have a classified section with the following subsetctions: (1). Vehicles for Sale (2). Vehicles Wanted (3). Parts for Sale (4). Parts Wanted

Am I missing something? Why dont we have this? I havent had a Stude for a very long time, but I've already got some spare parts that I can sell or give away, and I'm looking for a lot of stuff as well. Waiting on a monthly magazine is just plain silly, in my opinion, when I, and many others, need parts now.

StudeMichael
03-18-2009, 03:20 PM
I am in support of it.

1957 Packard Clipper
1957 President Broadmoor
1963 Daytona Convertible
1963 R2 Daytona
1963 R2 GT Hawk
1963 R1 Wagonaire
1963 R4 Avanti
1964 Champ
1966 Cruiser

snowy_buffalo
03-18-2009, 03:28 PM
Just use the Stude Swap Page for what you have to sell/give away.

http://www.studebakerswap.com/studebaker.shtml

'57 3E6-12 Transtar Deluxe
'64 Daytona HT

Dick Steinkamp
03-18-2009, 03:31 PM
We can post items for sale and items wanted per the policy here...

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3076

In addition, there is a free Studebaker parts classified page here...

http://www.studebakerswap.com/swap/swap.php

I have not been a big fan of chopping up the forum into various sub forums. We seem to have a difficult enough time staying within the definitions of the 7 sub forums we currently have.

However, I tend to agree that a Classified section has a lot of merit. Although we have a search function, it is a little cumbersome to use to find a specific part (or car) you want, and useless to sell something. A classified section would simplify this and probably be used quite a bit.

The downside for the club is that paid advertising in TW would most likely decrease.



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/pics075-1-1.jpg

jeryst
03-18-2009, 08:43 PM
I dont think the Stude swap page is all that great. Plus, there seems to be a lot of people there that are not on the forum. I'd much rather trust an active forum member if I'm going to send hundreds of dollars to someone.

As far as TW losing revenue, I dont think it would be that much. I have talked with a lot of Stude people, and even though most of them are SDC members, surprisingly, many of them just dont use the forum very much, or even at all, so the TW ads would still have their place.

bams50
03-18-2009, 09:02 PM
FWIW, I bought items off the Swap Page from three different folks just this month, and picked the parts up at York. Two of them turned out to be forum members! Also sold stuff on the Swap Page- including a car, who also turned out to be a forum member; and who I now count as a good friend!

So, my opinion is, the Swap Page is really a good resource; it's biggest flaw being that not enough people on the forum know about it.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

bob40
03-18-2009, 10:09 PM
There was a disagreement one month when a chapter newsletter ads
were placed on here before the newsletter had reached the hands
of some chapter members.Forum members from around the country
could call on items before a chapter member could.It was spotted
by a chapter member here on the forum.
I forget the %(someone here can post it) but there are a lot of SDC
members who do not visit the forum and wait for chapter newsletters
and Turning Wheels to sell or buy.You get the free ad a week here.
The Unofficial site is available and in my eyes is a good option.
When reading the post here it doesnt take much to figure out who
the vendors and private parts sellers are.
As far as buying goes all the Stude vendors have websites
that make buying easy.

jeryst
03-19-2009, 01:37 AM
I'm looking at it more as a resource for finding parts, not selling them. If I need something, I'd just like to be able to put it out there. I dont care who contacts me, be it a vendor, or private party. Swapmeets that I can attend, occur twice a year. Turning wheels comes out once a month. That might be sufficient for someone who is looking for a part or two, but certainly inadequate for someone that is at the beginning of a restoration. The Swap Pages are a good start, but I feel the additional forum sections would be an additional, and more valuable resource.

Many people have extra parts laying around that others can use, but most of those people will not post an ad in TW to get rid of them. They probably also wont take the time to gather up everything and put an ad on the Swap Pages. However, if they see that someone needs something they have, they wouldnt think twice about sending a quick PM to sell a part and help someone out at the same time. Its happened many times with me, and I've seen it countless times on the other forums I belong to. I'm probably one of the worst offenders when it comes to getting rid of parts. In my garage, I have spare parts for a 49 Cadillac, 57 Chevy Belair, 59 Plymouth Fury, 66 Chevy Chevelle, 73 Plymouth Cuda, 73 Dodge Challenger, and probably others that I have forgotten. Should I gather them up and sell them? Yes. Do I ever get around to it? No. Why? Because its a daunting, time-consuming task, that I dont look forward to tackling. But, if I'm on a forum, and see that someone needs something I have, I'll be more than happy to get in touch with them.

You just have to stop and think about it for a moment. Why do all of the other forums do it, and we dont? And what's really in the best interest of forum members; (1). To have access to a whole world of parts stashed away and partially forgotten in garages and basements all around the world, or, (2). Rely only on ads that people take the time and effort (and sometimes cost) to post?

bradnree
03-19-2009, 08:34 AM
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkwZstudebakerQ20partsQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZQQ_sopZ12

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks___studebaker_W0QQ_catZ6001QQ_pcatsZ6000QQ_sopZ1?_rdc=1

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/ (enter your nearest city then car parts, then cars & trucks, then do a search "Studebaker")

http://www.hubcapcafe.com/ (photos reference)

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1T4SUNA_en___US219&q=1953+studebaker (photos reference)

http://www.studebakervendors.com/

http://carnut.com/photo/list/list.html (photos reference)

BRAD

StudeDave57
03-19-2009, 12:09 PM
We have covered this a time or two in the past~ there is no getting around facts.
Take a look at the numbers.
There are over 12,000 folks who belong to SDC.
What is the average age of those 12,000 members [?]
How many of them are online [?]
There are currently 3884 members of this Forum.

How many of the 3884 are one of the 12,000 [?]

Good questions~ but no one knows the answers, though. Until those numbers match up way better then they do now, and you can convince your Board members it's a good idea- it's not gonna happen.

When (if) it ever does- I hope it's in a "member's only" type of area, due to the number of non-members we have here. It'll give them an added incentive to join SDC. That's about the only way I see making everyone happy, personally...

That's my take- your opinion may vary. ;)

If I were you~ I'd try other Automotive Forums like the H.A.M.B. for your non-Stude Stuff, or maybe try to find a big all makes swap meet to drag it to. Then find a way to get to every StudeShow in your Zone for the Stude-Stuff you need. They have swap meets at most of them. You can find information about StudeShows in your TW, or here on this very site- through the home page....


StudeDave '57 [8D]
An SDC member since 1985
technically longer...

edited for typos and more...[V]

bradnree
03-19-2009, 12:55 PM
I would be satisfied with a "Turning Wheels" on line instead of print. On line would save every one money who subscribes this way or it should.

Brad

Dick Steinkamp
03-19-2009, 02:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by bradnree

I would be satisfied with a "Turning Wheels" on line instead of print. On line would save every one money who subscribes this way or it should.




I like that idea too.

Newspapers are disappearing every day. A lot of magazines are having a tough time and will probably disappear also.

Our local SDC chapter newsletter comes via email. Saves the chapter money, we get it sooner, and much easier to file or throw away.

The internet is "what's happening" in the (formerly) printed media.

Our club will probably not be an "early adopter" however. ;)

Here's a great E-zine...

http://www.benchrace.com/html/5.c.html

(subscribe and watch for an upcoming feature on the ute).



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/pics075-1-1.jpg

Skip Lackie
03-19-2009, 02:54 PM
This subject has been discussed several times before.

As noted above, anyone can list five items for sale per week in this section.

Also as noted, most SDC members DO NOT utilize this forum. In fact, only about 10% of our members use it regularly. But a great majority of our members indicate that they read TW, and most of them read the classified ads in the back. TW is the glue that binds most members to SDC and to each other. Ads from TW are reproduced on this site after they have been printed in the magazine. The 5-items-per-week rule was passed in 2006 as a compromise between those who check this forum every day and those who never do.

Decisions regarding the contents of this forum are made by the SDC board of directors. At this time, a majority of the board believes that allowing an extensive classified section herein without the items first having been listed in TW would reduce the value of the magazine to a majority of the membership.

Skip Lackie
Board member, SDC

jeryst
03-19-2009, 03:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

This subject has been discussed several times before.

As noted above, anyone can list five items for sale per week in this section.

Also as noted, most SDC members DO NOT utilize this forum. In fact, only about 10% of our members use it regularly. But a great majority of our members indicate that they read TW, and most of them read the classified ads in the back. TW is the glue that binds most members to SDC and to each other. Ads from TW are reproduced on this site after they have been printed in the magazine. The 5-items-per-week rule was passed in 2006 as a compromise between those who check this forum every day and those who never do.

Decisions regarding the contents of this forum are made by the SDC board of directors. At this time, a majority of the board believes that allowing an extensive classified section herein without the items first having been listed in TW would reduce the value of the magazine to a majority of the membership.

Skip Lackie
Board member, SDC


I would agree if TW was just about classifieds, but its not. Its about the articles, information, etc. The classifieds are only a small part of it. If that weren't the case, why are old issues so popular at swap meets? I bought half a dozen old issues at York, and I certainly didnt buy them for old classified ads!

And I dont agree that a classified section would reduce the value of TW any more than the Swap Pages do.

Its in everyones best interest to have faster, easier availability to a larger universe of parts. Especially when those parts will probably never get offered up for sale in any other fashion.

We should, at the very least, have Vehicles Wanted, and Parts Wanted sections, to allow those items to get into members hands more easily.

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, the board is doing no service to members by upholding a decision that, in any way, restricts the availability of parts to people who want to enjoy the Studebaker hobby/fascination/obsession, whatever the case may be.

Skip Lackie
03-19-2009, 04:11 PM
Obviously, the ads are only a small part of the value of TW. But many members indicate that they read the ads first. I don't read them first, but I do read them all, and must admit that I no longer see the variety of either vendors or items for sale that I used to see a few years ago. In other words, I wouldn't argue with an assertion that the TW ads no longer have the attraction that they did before the Internet and ebay. So maybe they're not as important as they used to be.

The board generally does what it thinks a majority of the membership wants. If those who feel that the current forum advertising policy is wrong would contact their board member, it might get changed at the meeting this summer (Jerry -- no need to contact your board member -- I know how you feel!). Posting opinions here only reaches those who read the forum.

BTW, there's already no limit on "wanted" postings on the forum.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

bradnree
03-19-2009, 04:21 PM
How to use the internet...


http://www.ask.com/web?&o=101881&l=dis&q=how%20to%20use%20the%20internet

www.ask.com is wonderful !!

Brad

This would be a perfect workshop for Zone meets and International meets. This could be an all morning workshop on----- how to use the internet. The afternoon session could be how to use a computer.
Those with laptops could show others how to do it and what they can find on the net. Desktops could also be set up for demos. A one hour trip to Best Buy or similar IN STUDEBAKERS could be taken, to show and tell computers and costs. There could be a 15 minute presentation before the awards showing the net on a big screen during the banquet. There are those who do not know what they are missing and may well enjoy with some help from SDC.

gordr
03-19-2009, 04:21 PM
IMHO, Skip has the right of this. I don't think we want to put SDC in the position of competing with itself. Newspapers and newsmagazines may be in dire straits right now, but I don't think special-interest magazines are in that same boat. If you subscribe to a special-interest magazine, it's not solely to see what's making news in your area of interest, but also to build a library of ideas. (which is why back issues of TW are so popular)

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

BobGlasscock
03-19-2009, 04:40 PM
Personally, I would probably never place an ad for sale in TW. You have to turn it in too early for results too late. I do read the ads, but only out of curiousity. Vendor ads are more important to me.

I would list items here on the forum, though, because the publication is immediate and the sale can happen very quickly. That's what I want out of a sale ad.

I think the argument that forum ads would take away from TW ads is just a little bit bogus in that the supporting evidence presented is that the forum has a minority of members participating. Well, then the transactions would also be a minority of members, maintaining whatever is said to be the majority of transactions within the TW system.

'50 Champion, 1 family owner
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg316/studebakerbob/SDC%20avatar/Studebakerstuff019.jpghttp://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg316/studebakerbob/SDC%20avatar/Studebakerstuff018.jpg

Sonny
03-19-2009, 09:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by jeryst

I'm looking at it more as a resource for finding parts, not selling them. If I need something, I'd just like to be able to put it out there. I dont care who contacts me, be it a vendor, or private party. Swapmeets that I can attend, occur twice a year. Turning wheels comes out once a month. That might be sufficient for someone who is looking for a part or two, but certainly inadequate for someone that is at the beginning of a restoration. The Swap Pages are a good start, but I feel the additional forum sections would be an additional, and more valuable resource.

<SNIPPED ONLY TO SAVE ROOM>

You just have to stop and think about it for a moment. Why do all of the other forums do it, and we dont? And what's really in the best interest of forum members; (1). To have access to a whole world of parts stashed away and partially forgotten in garages and basements all around the world, or, (2). Rely only on ads that people take the time and effort (and sometimes cost) to post?

I've put this out before. All are welcome to put their stuff on the racing forums for free. http://www.racingstudebakers.com/stl-web/bulletin/bb/index.php

Here's our "Hit Stats" and which countries visit the forums. This is just March, to the 19th...

Countries - Full list
Countries Pages Hits Bandwidth

Number sets after the country represent Unique Pages Viewed/Hits/Bandwidth

United States us 20842 163810 575.55 MB
Canada ca 591 4506 21.89 MB
Netherlands nl 280 346 2.42 MB
Australia au 175 1137 5.67 MB
Spain es 170 239 1.50 MB
France fr 141 282 2.05 MB
Thailand th 111 111 888.17 KB
Germany de 107 319 2.43 MB
China cn 84 92 774.21 KB
Ukraine ua 63 63 686.71 KB
South Korea kr 58 58 478.50 KB
Romania ro 56 56 450.09 KB
Hong Kong hk 56 64 543.83 KB
Belgium be 55 56 440.58 KB
Russian Federation ru 37 85 703.98 KB
Sweden se 27 131 1.07 MB
Lithuania lt 23 23 277.03 KB
Pakistan pk 21 61 525.01 KB
Mauritius mu 19 19 220.58 KB
Japan jp 15 16 374.81 KB
Taiwan tw 13 15 343.31 KB
Mexico mx 12 159 852.61 KB
Norway no 8 187 596.28 KB
South Africa za 7 175 485.53 KB
Great Britain gb 6 96 479.92 KB
Others 39 405 3.25 MB

For the year...
Month/Unique visitors/No. of visits/Pages/Hits/Bandwidth
Jan 2009 2331 7005 40231 318258 1.10 GB
Feb 2009 2084 6003 40582 276031 960.36 MB
Mar 2009 1375 3764 23016 172511 624.74 MB

I dunno if they're all lookin' to buy Stduebaker stuff, but at least they're lookin! [^]






Sonny
http://racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpghttp://RacingStudebakers.com

Mark57
03-20-2009, 12:39 AM
Lots of good points expressed on both sides of the issue, however we must be mindful that many members do not go "online" to shop or sell parts and vehicles. We have a small chapter (about 40 members), but I only know of 5 of them that regularly surf the net looking at Stude stuff. Unless you are a commercial vendor, one free ad on the Forum should suffice in most cases - although I agree without a special category, it won't be as easy to search for parts 'n stuff.


<h5>Mark
President
Vancouver Island Chapter

The NW Overdrive Tour in Parksville, BC
May 23 & 24, 2009; check it out at -
http://sdcvi.shawwebspace.ca/</h5>
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/IMG_0289-1.jpg

bradnree
03-20-2009, 07:45 AM
I don't believe ebay or craigs list have hurt TW. Both of these offer immediate posting, quick results, and the latter charging nothing to place an ad.

Brad

5brown1
03-20-2009, 08:32 AM
If anything I would think usage would increase on this site with the addition of a classified section. Studebaker parts are not found everywhere and having a classified section on the Studebaker Drivers Club would seem to be a "no-brainer". Those who do not use the internet could then have a reason to visit this site if they are looking for a part or have parts which might be useful to someone else. Turning Wheels is an enjoyable magazine and the vendors ads are useful (they even provide their website information). But for the individual who needs a rare part or wishes to sell a couple items which might be needed by another a monthly publication is inconvenient to say the least. Individuals visiting this site through web searches for parts are also likely to become members when they become familiar with the SDC. Just my $.02 from someone who has been searching for scarce parts for a 37 President.
Just a thought - some current members may not use the internet but I'll bet new members (young) will, and that should be recognized.

lewdstude
03-20-2009, 08:43 AM
What 5brown1 said.

...career lurker

HookedonStudies
03-20-2009, 08:52 AM
This marque started out making wheelbarrows! Ended up making (among other things) Supercharged Avantis.

Change happens.

I'm sure that eventually this discussion will result in classified advertisements on the OFFICIAL SDC forum. The time is not yet right, but most everyone would acknowledge that it IS only a matter of time. What will it take? More SDC members online, and participating on the forum. How do you get more people and specifically more members online? Attract more younger members. How do you attract more younger members? Offer one stop satisfaction - i.e. classified ads on the forum. In case no one noticed, in the last 50 years we have become an instant gratification society.

No one wants to negatively impact TW or the loyal advertisers that have supported this hobby for all these years.

Any ideas?

Pat

55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

Lark Parker
03-20-2009, 09:36 AM
quote:Originally posted by StudeDave57

We have covered this a time or two in the past~ there is no getting around facts.
Take a look at the numbers.
There are over 12,000 folks who belong to SDC.
What is the average age of those 12,000 members [?]
How many of them are online [?]
There are currently 3884 members of this Forum.

How many of the 3884 are one of the 12,000 [?]

Good questions~ but no one knows the answers, though. Until those numbers match up way better then they do now, and you can convince your Board members it's a good idea- it's not gonna happen.

When (if) it ever does- I hope it's in a "member's only" type of area, due to the number of non-members we have here. It'll give them an added incentive to join SDC. That's about the only way I see making everyone happy, personally...

That's my take- your opinion may vary. ;)

If I were you~ I'd try other Automotive Forums like the H.A.M.B. for your non-Stude Stuff, or maybe try to find a big all makes swap meet to drag it to. Then find a way to get to every StudeShow in your Zone for the Stude-Stuff you need. They have swap meets at most of them. You can find information about StudeShows in your TW, or here on this very site- through the home page....


StudeDave '57 [8D]
An SDC member since 1985
technically longer...

edited for typos and more...[V]


I'm bumping this quote back up into the conversation because it is basically something I agree with and can't improve on.
Until the problem of such a small percentage of the SDC being here on the forum it doesn't make much sense.

Our LOCAL chapter activities require SDC membership for participate in anything as other than a guest. If they don't want to join the SDC and our chapter -- then they are freeloading on our effort and work to keep the SDC alive. I don't see much difference here since this forum is sponsored by the SDC.

Step up and vote for a forum change at the SDC, if you are a member that feels this should be an open Studebaker flea market.

I have seen many people drop in here just to look for a part, or sometimes a car, or try to get a ridiculous sight unseen appraisal of a mystery Studebaker, model unknown. Sometimes they get interested in the forum, learning about the cars, and then the SDC and join. (I have an ubstantiated opinion that the joining percentage is small and some are operating on the maxim: "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?"

At this forum the new "unsponsored visitors" are usually helped as best can be done by directing them to sources. Nobody is required to give their SDC membership number as might be done if they attended a chapter activity. And that's OK as we probably do pick up a FEW members and they are usually the younger blood.

At one of our larger chapter meetings, and we do have a BIG chapter, by hand count we found only about ten percent had on line computers.

Think about that.
That's 90% of those people paying dues to support this place.


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n4/larkparker/Miscellaneous/caryreduced.jpg Lark Parker

Just an innocent possum strolling down life's highway.

Skip Lackie
03-20-2009, 10:00 AM
As gordr said, the board doesn't want to end up authorizing something that competes with itself. Both this site and TW are sponsored by SDC, and TW is patronized by a greater share of our membership than this forum. If you were seeking or selling a Stude part twenty years ago, you'd really only have two choices: TW or one of the old car hobby publications, like Hemmings or Old Cars. No instant gratification available on either. Nowadays, there are many more choices, most of which do provide almost instant results. These other choices DO compete with TW, for better or for worse. When a vendor sells something on ebay or some other electronic site, he is "depriving" those who do not regularly surf the net from getting a chance to buy it. That is the inevitable outcome of a choice that both seller and potential buyer have made. Fair enough.

But the board has the responsibility to serve the majority of its members, not just those who chose to look at this site every day. As usual when this subject is broached, all those posting are strongly in favor of putting more classified ads on this site. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone! But there are another 10,000 or so members that we haven't heard from. While not denying the old-vs-young Internet use dichotomy, some folks just chose not to spend their limited spare time by surfing the Web. The board represents their interests, too.

I agree that classified ads on this site are inevitable. But instead of just piling on here, I suggest that those who feel strongly about this issue should pass their opinion along to their board member.

Skip Lackie
Board member, Atlantic zone

jeryst
03-20-2009, 11:01 AM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

But the board has the responsibility to serve the majority of its members, not just those who chose to look at this site every day. As usual when this subject is broached, all those posting are strongly in favor of putting more classified ads on this site. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone! But there are another 10,000 or so members that we haven't heard from. While not denying the old-vs-young Internet use dichotomy, some folks just chose not to spend their limited spare time by surfing the Web. The board represents their interests, too.

Skip Lackie
Board member, Atlantic zone


This keeps bring brought up, but everything is relative. Only a small percentage of members use the forum, so only a smll number of members will use it to post ads. Those who dont, wont be affected, because the majority who dont use the forum will still use TW to sell and look for parts.

The main arguement seems to be that non-forum members will be at a disadvantage, but I have noticed, while reading posts, that some members get their copy of TW before others do. It only stands to reason that the farther away from the mailing point a member is, the longer it takes for that member to get his copy of TW. But if that is the case, then TW itself is being unfair to the members who get their copy later, because the members who get their copy first, will have a time advantage, and will get to the parts first. So ads on the forum will only serve to be more fair. The subject is being looked at in the wrong way. We should be looking at getting more members to participate in the forums, not rewarding them to stay away.

I would bet, that use of the forum would increase substantially, if more parts were available, instead of there being a mad rush to compete for parts when TW comes out. If there is nothing here to draw members, expecially younger or newer ones, they will never come.

As mentioned before, Craigslist, eBay, local car trader publications, Swap Pages, vendor web pages, and all other online sources for parts already compete with TW. I am willing to bet, that a large majority of the 90% of members who dont use this forum already use one or more of these other venues to get what they need. Its rediculous to think that people just sit around and postpone restoring/fixing their Studebakers a month at a time, until the next TW comes out, in hopes that the part they are looking for is there. Heck, if everyone restored a car that way, it would take 50 years to restore one, and once restored, everyone would be scared to death to drive them, because it would take forever to get replacement parts if something breaks.

Everyone agrees that classifieds will eventually happen. Why not be proactive and just do it, instead of being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.

PackardV8
03-20-2009, 02:40 PM
quote:dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.

It could be argued anyone owning/driving a Studebaker has not yet been dragged very far into the second half of the 20th century. ;)

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

bob40
03-20-2009, 02:42 PM
Most all the Stude vendors have websites.
Most have the majority of parts we all need.
Most will ship next day.
The arguement for having to wait a month to get
a part is non valid to those here on the forum.
Put on a wanted ad and the response is swift.
Can the real reason some want a swap section
is in the hope they can find the part cheaper
than a vendors cost?
As far as selling on here the 5 ads a week
rule should clean out leftover parts quickly
if that is the goal plus people here routinely
ask for parts so if someone wants to answer a
parts wanted ad here that is their choice.
Support our great vendors or ask for a part
either way the stuff is available just by asking
as it is now.

bams50
03-20-2009, 06:55 PM
Interesting to see the different takes on this subject. All have at least some merit.


quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

When a vendor sells something on ebay or some other electronic site, he is "depriving" those who do not regularly surf the net from getting a chance to buy it. That is the inevitable outcome of a choice that both seller and potential buyer have made. Fair enough.


This statement is very true- especially the "fair enough" part.

A perplexing part of the hobby is the way some choose to approach it. Before the 'net I was one who would wait till Hemmings got to my mailbox to find parts, and if what I needed wasn't there, I had to sigh and wait till next month; or go to Carlisle or another meet on a likely wild goose chase and probably go home empty handed. I figured out I was better off looking to buy whole parts cars.

When the 'net came along and I found out it's capabilities, I made myself make the effort to learn how to use it; same with eBay. I didn't do it to help technology- I did it solely because it was clear it would help me with what I was interested in. So I changed how I approach my hobby of choice: I check forums, and have several eBay searches bookmarked. I have bookmarks for several sites, including the Swap Page. With one click, they all pop down, and I just click one and have a look. I've figured out how to stay on top of any sites I think will be of interest and/or help to me.

Personally I don't understand why anyone would avoid availing themselves of anything that would expand the enjoyment and pursuit of their interests. I have yet to hear a good reason why; but TEHO. So I think things are fine as they are; and when they change, I'll still feel that way- I'll just adjust!

If those in charge decide it's time for another classified section, I'll look in. Till then, I'll use the ones we already have. If others want to wait for TW instead of going online, that's fine too. There's plenty of parts- and venues- to go around!


Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

StudeMichael
03-20-2009, 10:09 PM
Charge a fee for the ad and let it go in Turning Wheels also. If the poster is not an SDC member using they pay a small fee. It costs money to post on EBAY so a non SDC member pays either way and it would be a benefit as others have pointed out to being a member to allow one free for sale ad per month. I am in favor of it and it would generate income. The other thing to think about is that the day is coming when Turning Wheels will be offered online. I would subscribe to it that way and would expect a discount on my membership because the club would save a lot of money on printing and shipping costs.

Enough free thinking for fear of getting called up by the head of the SDC board and charged with treason.

1957 Packard Clipper
1957 President Broadmoor
1963 Daytona Convertible
1963 R2 Daytona
1963 R2 GT Hawk
1963 R1 Wagonaire
1963 R4 Avanti
1964 Champ
1966 Cruiser

jeryst
03-20-2009, 11:54 PM
I've been thinking about this all day, and trying to put it into perspective, so lets see if I have it right. In essence, the board feels they need to restrict, or maybe just ignore, technology, to protect those who choose not to use it.

I just dont think that is the right path. Those entities, be they individuals, nations, or entire civilizations, who have chosen to embrace technology, have always come out on top, while those that didnt, never fared as well.

Had the human race decided to travel the same path, we would all still be hunkered down in a cave somewhere, cold, wet, and miserable, eating raw meat and insects, because the majority of the people were afraid of fire.

And, Studebakers would never have existed.

StudeDave57
03-21-2009, 12:46 AM
Posting more now will only get me into trouble. ;)

ALOT OF IT!!!


I think I'll think it over tonight, maybe...


StudeDave '57 [8D]
at that point, I am...
and it ain't worth it!!!

Skip Lackie
03-21-2009, 08:18 AM
quote:Originally posted by jeryst

I've been thinking about this all day, and trying to put it into perspective, so lets see if I have it right. In essence, the board feels they need to restrict, or maybe just ignore, technology, to protect those who choose not to use it.

I just dont think that is the right path. Those entities, be they individuals, nations, or entire civilizations, who have chosen to embrace technology, have always come out on top, while those that didnt, never fared as well.

Had the human race decided to travel the same path, we would all still be hunkered down in a cave somewhere, cold, wet, and miserable, eating raw meat and insects, because the majority of the people were afraid of fire.

And, Studebakers would never have existed.

The board is neither embracing nor rejecting technology. And it certainly is neither encouraging nor discouraging the advancement of civilization. It is attempting, in its own fumbling, tentative way, to serve and protect the interests of the majority of its members. Here's a bit of an excerpt from an editorial in Friday's Washington Post (on another subject of course): " . . . elected officials have a responsibility to lead, not just to pander; to weigh what makes sense for the country, not just what feels good." I do not equate my responsibilities as an SDC board member with those on Capitol Hill trying to deal with the financial crisis -- but the concept of keeping your job description in mind before taking action is not completely off base. Should we listen to the complaints of a minority of our membership? Yes. Should we automatically do what they want us to do? Not necessarily.

The main arguement seems to be that non-forum members will be at a disadvantage, but I have noticed, while reading posts, that some members get their copy of TW before others do. It only stands to reason that the farther away from the mailing point a member is, the longer it takes for that member to get his copy of TW. But if that is the case, then TW itself is being unfair to the members who get their copy later, because the members who get their copy first, will have a time advantage, and will get to the parts first. So ads on the forum will only serve to be more fair. The subject is being looked at in the wrong way. We should be looking at getting more members to participate in the forums, not rewarding them to stay away.

With all due respect, that is a specious argument. SDC cannot take responsibility for the service quality of either the US Postal Service or Canada Post. Some people choose to live in rural areas where mail service is slower -- that is their choice, and they receive the benefits and suffer the consequences accordingly. The club does offer the option of first class delivery, and some take advantage of it in order to receive TW quicker. It's bogus to suggest that because some people get the magazine sooner than others, SDC should forget about doing all it can to protect the interests of a majority of its members.

I would support a proposal to add classified ads to the SDC Forum, subject to an analysis of what it would would cost, and that a means could be found to limit postings to SDC members. I came close to supporting such a proposal a few years ago, but the classified ad section of TW was still pretty healthy then -- and I didn't want to do anthing that might damage it. Since then, the parts for sale section seems to have shriveled up, so maybe it's time to make a change.


Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Lark Parker
03-21-2009, 08:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by jeryst

I've been thinking about this all day, and trying to put it into perspective, so lets see if I have it right. In essence, the board feels they need to restrict, or maybe just ignore, technology, to protect those who choose not to use it.

I just dont think that is the right path. Those entities, be they individuals, nations, or entire civilizations, who have chosen to embrace technology, have always come out on top, while those that didnt, never fared as well.

Had the human race decided to travel the same path, we would all still be hunkered down in a cave somewhere, cold, wet, and miserable, eating raw meat and insects, because the majority of the people were afraid of fire.

And, Studebakers would never have existed.


I happen to like caves, some sushi is OK, and I wear my welding hood so the fire doesn't bother me. (Perhaps I should wear it when I am reading here.)

Just exactly what do you expect to happen?
You joined this forum last July and things here aren't to your staisfaction.
I understand completely.

If this whole forum agreed with you, that still would not represent the SDC. You need to take this perceived foginess problem we have here to the board of the SDC and persuade them with your vision of the future.

You say you haven't gotten around to selling the non-Studebaker parts, have you put parts up for sale here?
If they didn't sell maybe nobody needed them -- it happens.

If you need a part just tell us what you are looking for--I just had a part delivered to York for someone that spoke up on this forum. I'm no longer a vendor but I still have some parts. I'm not going to list them here because I'm just as lazy as you say you are in doing that, and I no longer have a convenient UPS in this town.

I'll be taking a few stainless pieces to the South Bend Zone/Swap for people that spoke up.

I was impressed when the advertising rules were expanded here some time ago and feared that this place would be so spam ridden that we couldn't find a "real" post. Thanks to our webmaster that hasn't happened and I don't have to wade through listings of charming doilies that "could be used in your Studebaker". In all honesty I thought the rule change would be somwewhat abused that that didn't happen.

Things are working well and haven't even come close to saturating the forum with ads. That's why people get referred to the swap page I guess.


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n4/larkparker/Miscellaneous/caryreduced.jpg Lark Parker

Just an innocent possum strolling down life's highway.

PackardV8
03-21-2009, 09:46 AM
There is no free lunch, not even for CASOs. To have a useable, monitored CLASSIFIED section, it costs:

1. A marque-specific club to which I belong has a professionally managed web site, discussion groups for the various models, all free. However, to post a car or parts for sale on the club site classified section is a $15 fee. There is no "one-free-ad-per-year" or the current SDC policy of hoping free ads don't get out of control. That club policy is cash in advance or no ad on the forum.

2. Look at the oldest and largest auto for sale entity - Hemmings doesn't allow the demand for free on-line access to canniblize their print subscriptions. Go to [u]hemmings.com</u> and here's what comes:


quote:You are browsing ads that are from the March 2009 issue of Hemmings Motor News.
To see ads from the April 2009 issue, you must be a subscriber to Hemmings Motor News.
If you are already a subscriber link your subscription.
If you would like to subscribe click here for our Digital Edition or here for our Print Edition.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

utfanatic
03-21-2009, 09:56 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

We can post items for sale and items wanted per the policy here...

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3076

In addition, there is a free Studebaker parts classified page here...

http://www.studebakerswap.com/swap/swap.php

I have not been a big fan of chopping up the forum into various sub forums. We seem to have a difficult enough time staying within the definitions of the 7 sub forums we currently have.

In some forums ads are deleted by the seller or edited to reflect such. This so called Studebaker Swap site is so cluttered with old post that it's not worth sifting thru. Wanted mixed with For Sale. I'm glad it's a UNofficial site.

Here we have SEVEN sub forums.. actually there are nine. Of the nine. Three maybe four are read daily by me.

I am in support of adding a SELL/WANTED sub forum. My constant search for 1941 parts is exhausting at times. Many of the parts I need are in shops and basements of members of this forum or a member knows someone who has it. ok.. Let's talk about security. The SDC has all our membership info. Why not ad a small icon to each members screen name deeming them as paid members with the SDC. Number post doesn't mean a thing to me, but to have all your personal info on file in a despute is somewhat comforting.

Back to the orignal topic. It's stated we can already post SALE/WANTED with limits. So why the hell can't we have a sub forum just for clarity. Who's toes would it step on other than the webmaster having to set it up.?? Vendors could advertise online as well and pay for the darn bandwidth.

Just because the majority doesn't have a computer isn't a valid reason not to do it.

As for TW, it's a printed tradition. An online version could be an option of the member. Hey.. save a tree.

In a nutshell. If we stick our heads in the sand Verses keeping up with technology seems to be the argument. To lure new blood into this hobby one had better know how to use a computer and be versed on the net.

Your milage may vary.
-=robert=-

1941 Champion 3G Coupe
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/ut-fan/1941%20Studebaker%20Champion/41stude.gif
"Life's too short.. Eat your cake first"

Robert Kidwell - Pleasant View, Tennessee 37146

Proud new member of the SDC
My Stude Project (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/ut-fan/1941%20Studebaker%20Champion)

bams50
03-21-2009, 10:24 AM
This is all avoiding Skip's correct statement above: Why is this still being hashed out here?? If you want it to change, fine- but you're not going to accomplish that by posting. Take action through the proper channels if you feel it should change!

Good points have been made on both sides; but they're made! If you get it changed, let us know; I'll add it to my list;)


Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

jeryst
03-22-2009, 11:54 AM
So what exactly are the "Proper channels"?

StudeDave57
03-22-2009, 12:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by jeryst

So what exactly are the "Proper channels"?
If you'd been reading this thread~ you'd know...


StudeDave '57 [8D]
done with hand-holding

HookedonStudies
03-22-2009, 12:27 PM
Proper channels:


http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/sdccontacts.asp

55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

StudeMichael
03-22-2009, 12:57 PM
At the risk of sounding stupid, why can't this be the proper channel. We are members of the club making a request. This is an official Studebaker Drivers Club website. Is it not? Why does everything have to be the world according certain people that always did it that way?

1957 Packard Clipper
1957 President Broadmoor
1963 Daytona Convertible
1963 R2 Daytona
1963 R2 GT Hawk
1963 R1 Wagonaire
1963 R4 Avanti
1964 Champ
1966 Cruiser

StudeDave57
03-22-2009, 01:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeMichael

At the risk of sounding stupid, why can't this be the proper channel. We are members of the club making a request. This is an official Studebaker Drivers Club website. Is it not?
Not everybody here belongs to SDC.
The Board does not 'hang out' here.

Just two of the many reasons listed above...


StudeDave '57 [8D]

jeryst
03-22-2009, 06:56 PM
I wouldnt be asking the question if I knew what to do. Is there a form? Do I just send each officer and/or board member an email?
What happens then?

As for making the requests here, this is THE official forum of THE official Studebaker Driver Club website, so I'm sure that many of us feel that this is the proper place to ask about/for something. It's the peferct place to ask questions, and debate things. Without debate, you have no chance of changing anyones mind about anything.

Skip Lackie
03-23-2009, 09:45 AM
quote:Originally posted by jeryst

I wouldnt be asking the question if I knew what to do. Is there a form? Do I just send each officer and/or board member an email?
What happens then?

As for making the requests here, this is THE official forum of THE official Studebaker Driver Club website, so I'm sure that many of us feel that this is the proper place to ask about/for something. It's the peferct place to ask questions, and debate things. Without debate, you have no chance of changing anyones mind about anything.


Yes, this is part of the official site of SDC, and yes, it is intended to be a good place to ask questions and debate things. But the "official" rubric just means that SDC pays for it and provides it as service to its members. Many non-members post here, too. It is not an official channel for getting action by the club on a suggestion or request. The reason is simple -- action can only be taken by the board, and not all board members read the forum reqularly -- and probably none of us read every posting, anyway. So it's entirely possible that a great idea will go unnoticed by the only people who can do anything about it.

The SDC board consists of ten board members elected by the membership, four officers elected by the board, and the immediate past president. Most have jobs, and spouses, and houses, and vehicles, and all the other complications of modern life. The degree to which a given board member reads the forum regularly depends on his/her particular circumstances. For example, Ed Burris drives his Avanti to local meets all over his zone -- something I can never seem to find the time to do. On the other hand, I don't think Ed ever posts here. Should both Ed and I both be thrown out of office because we don't do everything we should be able to do? Maybe, but that's up to the electorate.

Whether we like it or not, we live in 2009. For SDC to do what it does, it has to have a structure. It is a corporation. It has bylaws. It has officers, bank accounts, contracts, auditors, attornies. SDC decisions are made by the SDC board in accordance with New York state corporation law. As far as I know, the only board members who have been following this discussion are Ed Reynolds, Art Unger, and myself. For SDC to take action on this or any other matter, eight members have to vote for it. That is why on two occasions in the above discussion I have suggested that those wishing to add a classified ad section to the forum should contact their board member. Email addresses are listed on the home page (link above), and appear in every issue of TW.

Skip Lackie
Board member, Atlantic Zone

JRoberts
03-23-2009, 11:00 AM
quote:Originally posted by bradnree

I would be satisfied with a "Turning Wheels" on line instead of print. On line would save every one money who subscribes this way or it should.

Brad


I don't see the advantage of this. If I want a copy I would still have to run it off on my printer at the house. As savy as many of you might be when it comes to the internet, I am not sure I personally trust it enough to depend upon it for my monthly issue of TW. i like the magazine on my shelf.

As far as a classified section on the forum, I am of the mindset that we really do not need it. Most arguments have already be posted here and I concure with the majority of them. I don't see that we need it. There are already online postings of cars and parts, both for buyers and sellers. What good will another source be?



Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

HookedonStudies
03-23-2009, 11:17 AM
Joe,

Please take no offense, certainly none is intended, but your post illustrates perfectly a very key difference between a 20-something Studebaker nut, and a shall we say - slightly older Studebaker nut. For the record I am 49, and I feel like I fit somewhere in the middle of the technical realm. But your comment that you are not sure you could trust your abilities to PRINT your copy of TW is very telling. A younger member would most likely never think to print out a copy of something he could view on his screen anytime he wanted to. Let me repeat, there is nothing at all wrong with printing it out, or with any of us having different skills and abilities, just that there is a large disparity in how similar things can be accomplished.

Let me also add, that I am pleased at how civil this entire thread has been. It is a passionate issue for many, and I for one appreciate the patience and restraint that has been displayed here. Skip I know you must feel like some of this is aimed at you personally, (I doubt that it really ever is) yet every time it comes up, you handle it very professionally and gracefully, and I'm sure others appreciate that as well.

Pat


55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

jeryst
03-23-2009, 12:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

As far as I know, the only board members who have been following this discussion are Ed Reynolds, Art Unger, and myself. For SDC to take action on this or any other matter, eight members have to vote for it. That is why on two occasions in the above discussion I have suggested that those wishing to add a classified ad section to the forum should contact their board member. Email addresses are listed on the home page (link above), and appear in every issue of TW.

Skip Lackie
Board member, Atlantic Zone
[/quote]

Unfortunately, this is part of the problem. The forum has 3300+ members, but not all are SDC members. So out of 12000 members, probably less than 25% use this forum. No matter what we, the forum users ask for, when it comes to something like this, we will always be in the minority. I dont know if TW has ever conducted any polls in the past, but maybe something like that could be done in the future to get opinions on this subject from as many members as possible.

It's almost as if there are two SDC clubs. Those that are technologically proficient, and those that are not. The only way this will probably ever change, is through the long process of attrition.

By the way, I am 56 years old, and use my PC and the internet daily, and enjoy all of the benefits and advantages that come with it. I have taught classes in the past, and would me more than willing to teach classes on how to use PC's, the internet, etc, at any SDC functions that I an near enough to attend. Members do not have to own or buy a PC in order to enjoy the benefits of being online. As long as they get to know their way around a PC, they can go to almost any library and get online. THere are also many internet cafes where you can use a PC already set up there.

And I also want to thank everyone for keeping this thread civil. It just goes to show how great a bunch of guys are here.

Lark Parker
03-23-2009, 02:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by jeryst


quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

As far as I know, the only board members who have been following this discussion are Ed Reynolds, Art Unger, and myself. For SDC to take action on this or any other matter, eight members have to vote for it. That is why on two occasions in the above discussion I have suggested that those wishing to add a classified ad section to the forum should contact their board member. Email addresses are listed on the home page (link above), and appear in every issue of TW.

Skip Lackie
Board member, Atlantic Zone


quote:
Unfortunately, this is part of the problem. The forum has 3300+ members, but not all are SDC members. So out of 12000 members, probably less than 25% use this forum. No matter what we, the forum users ask for, when it comes to something like this, we will always be in the minority. I dont know if TW has ever conducted any polls in the past, but maybe something like that could be done in the future to get opinions on this subject from as many members as possible.

It's almost as if there are two SDC clubs. Those that are technologically proficient, and those that are not. The only way this will probably ever change, is through the long process of attrition.

By the way, I am 56 years old, and use my PC and the internet daily, and enjoy all of the benefits and advantages that come with it. I have taught classes in the past, and would me more than willing to teach classes on how to use PC's, the internet, etc, at any SDC functions that I an near enough to attend. Members do not have to own or buy a PC in order to enjoy the benefits of being online. As long as they get to know their way around a PC, they can go to almost any library and get online. THere are also many internet cafes where you can use a PC already set up there.

And I also want to thank everyone for keeping this thread civil. It just goes to show how great a bunch of guys are here.


I don't see that "as part of the problem" it sounds to me as though the minority's opinion has been well represented. And will continue to be represented on this matter.

I have self-censored the rest of my six paragraph reply.

LP

Skip Lackie
03-23-2009, 02:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by HookedonStudies
Skip I know you must feel like some of this is aimed at you personally, (I doubt that it really ever is) yet every time it comes up, you handle it very professionally and gracefully, and I'm sure others appreciate that as well.

Pat


Pat-
I believe that is the first time anyone has described me as handling anything "gracefully". I may have to call you and get you to repeat that word to my wife.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

monomaniac
03-23-2009, 04:11 PM
Skip, you have a wife??

Skip Lackie
03-24-2009, 07:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by monomaniac

Skip, you have a wife??


Yes, a very tolerant, patient woman. Still doesn't seem possible, does it?

Skip Lackie
Washington DC