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JBrotor
12-11-2006, 11:05 AM
My Grandfather had a 59 Lark built for him by the Studebaker engineering department back in 1959. His had a plaque on the dash that stated something like this, "This 59 Lark was built for David Wieduwelt #37 out of 50".

Has anyone heard of these 50 models built or have any info on any still around. His had a supercharged Packard with a 3 speed column shift w/ overdrive. He lived in Illinois at the time.

Dick Steinkamp
12-11-2006, 11:35 AM
quote:Originally posted by JBrotor
Has anyone heard of these 50 models built or have any info on any still around.


I haven't heard of these. You would think since 50 were supposedly built that at least one would have surfaced by now. It would be a pretty neat car!

Studebaker built supercharged engines in '57, '58, '63, and '64. They were all 289 CID. No supercharged engines in '59..in fact, no 289 CID engine in '59.

It would be great if you had a serial number (off an old title or registration?) that would enable you to get the production order from the Studebaker National Museum.

Good luck in your search.


http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

Dick Steinkamp
12-11-2006, 11:35 AM
quote:Originally posted by JBrotor
Has anyone heard of these 50 models built or have any info on any still around.


I haven't heard of these. You would think since 50 were supposedly built that at least one would have surfaced by now. It would be a pretty neat car!

Studebaker built supercharged engines in '57, '58, '63, and '64. They were all 289 CID. No supercharged engines in '59..in fact, no 289 CID engine in '59.

It would be great if you had a serial number (off an old title or registration?) that would enable you to get the production order from the Studebaker National Museum.

Good luck in your search.


http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

JBrotor
12-11-2006, 11:54 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by JBrotor
Has anyone heard of these 50 models built or have any info on any still around.



Good luck in your search.


http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA


Thanks, I will propably need. These were built for a select few people hand picked from Studebaker.

JBrotor
12-11-2006, 11:54 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by JBrotor
Has anyone heard of these 50 models built or have any info on any still around.



Good luck in your search.


http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA


Thanks, I will propably need. These were built for a select few people hand picked from Studebaker.

JDP
12-11-2006, 12:20 PM
I've heard of a few very limited production models like the supercharged Champ pickups, and 57 cop cars but never a Lark. If 50 such models were built with a blower, we'd surely have some documentation.
Perhaps the supercharger was added later to some kind of 50 car promotion that has been lost to history. We have a few experts on here that might know something.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-11-2006, 12:20 PM
I've heard of a few very limited production models like the supercharged Champ pickups, and 57 cop cars but never a Lark. If 50 such models were built with a blower, we'd surely have some documentation.
Perhaps the supercharger was added later to some kind of 50 car promotion that has been lost to history. We have a few experts on here that might know something.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Roscomacaw
12-11-2006, 12:40 PM
JBroter,

How long have you been looking for this car or evidence of it? If not long, let me explain to you that the Studebaker Driver's Club has been around since before the demise of Studebaker. We've had documentation of every thing that the company built - even one off editions - until the last day of auto production and even after that. There's been NO mention of these "Special Larks" that I've heard of and I can't fathom a scenario wherein one of the conditions for ownership would be to keep silent about it. 50 Larks aren't many against the total built, but at least ONE or the lore of these "special edition" Larks would've kept it's head above water after all these years.;)
Each years offerings have been analysed model for model - first to last and the production orders exist for each and every car they built and sold. Not once has mention been made of any 59 (or 60 for that matter) Larks specially fitted with hi-performance options.
Look back at recent topics here. We've just seen the re-emergence of a specially modified 59 Lark that's been known about since it was built. This wasn't built for some one, but rather as a testbed for a proposed engine that never came to be. We know of this car, we've known about another test Lark that fitted with a diesel engine as well as a 60 Lark station wagon that was the 100,000 Lark to be built with special, gold-plated trim. That's 3 one-off Larks that we've known about for years and still exist today.
There were '58 Golden Hawks that may have been built with a plaque on the dash. I can't find mention of it in a quick search. They could have been 3-spd O/D as well. All 58 Golden Hawks were supercharged. Studebaker DID use those "Built for ........." dash plaques on '61 Hawks and some GT Hawks as well, I believe. Even could have been installed by a dealer to make a customer feel special. Any jewelry shop can engrave a brass plaque to suit.
Dig thru Grampa's desk drawers and find a registration or some paper with a serial number on it. Then go to the Studebaker museum's website and order the production order for THAT particular car. Exactly HOW it was equipped will be spelled out on that order.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
12-11-2006, 12:40 PM
JBroter,

How long have you been looking for this car or evidence of it? If not long, let me explain to you that the Studebaker Driver's Club has been around since before the demise of Studebaker. We've had documentation of every thing that the company built - even one off editions - until the last day of auto production and even after that. There's been NO mention of these "Special Larks" that I've heard of and I can't fathom a scenario wherein one of the conditions for ownership would be to keep silent about it. 50 Larks aren't many against the total built, but at least ONE or the lore of these "special edition" Larks would've kept it's head above water after all these years.;)
Each years offerings have been analysed model for model - first to last and the production orders exist for each and every car they built and sold. Not once has mention been made of any 59 (or 60 for that matter) Larks specially fitted with hi-performance options.
Look back at recent topics here. We've just seen the re-emergence of a specially modified 59 Lark that's been known about since it was built. This wasn't built for some one, but rather as a testbed for a proposed engine that never came to be. We know of this car, we've known about another test Lark that fitted with a diesel engine as well as a 60 Lark station wagon that was the 100,000 Lark to be built with special, gold-plated trim. That's 3 one-off Larks that we've known about for years and still exist today.
There were '58 Golden Hawks that may have been built with a plaque on the dash. I can't find mention of it in a quick search. They could have been 3-spd O/D as well. All 58 Golden Hawks were supercharged. Studebaker DID use those "Built for ........." dash plaques on '61 Hawks and some GT Hawks as well, I believe. Even could have been installed by a dealer to make a customer feel special. Any jewelry shop can engrave a brass plaque to suit.
Dig thru Grampa's desk drawers and find a registration or some paper with a serial number on it. Then go to the Studebaker museum's website and order the production order for THAT particular car. Exactly HOW it was equipped will be spelled out on that order.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

JBrotor
12-11-2006, 01:00 PM
Mr. Biggs,

Thank you for your response, I am trying to get his old film of the car. I have seen it once and it brought chills to see my Grandpa 18 yrs old with his Lark. I will talk to him tonight to try and get some more details to help narrow my search.

JBrotor
12-11-2006, 01:00 PM
Mr. Biggs,

Thank you for your response, I am trying to get his old film of the car. I have seen it once and it brought chills to see my Grandpa 18 yrs old with his Lark. I will talk to him tonight to try and get some more details to help narrow my search.

raprice
12-11-2006, 02:42 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Studebaker custom built that Lark. Over the years, Studebaker did a lot of special orders for customers. Try that today with any of the makes being sold in the good old U.S of A. It'll be like walking into a brick wall. Most of the car builders of today have a take it or leave it attitude. They're too busy selling cars to even paint a special color, even for a cost premium.
My 2 cents.
Rog:)

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop

raprice
12-11-2006, 02:42 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Studebaker custom built that Lark. Over the years, Studebaker did a lot of special orders for customers. Try that today with any of the makes being sold in the good old U.S of A. It'll be like walking into a brick wall. Most of the car builders of today have a take it or leave it attitude. They're too busy selling cars to even paint a special color, even for a cost premium.
My 2 cents.
Rog:)

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop

JDP
12-11-2006, 03:27 PM
I would be surprised since the 57-58 blower will not clear the hood for one thing. It could be done, but we would know if they did one, certainly 50.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-11-2006, 03:27 PM
I would be surprised since the 57-58 blower will not clear the hood for one thing. It could be done, but we would know if they did one, certainly 50.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Guido
12-11-2006, 04:08 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
Studebaker built supercharged engines in '57, '58, '63, and '64. They were all 289 CID.
Dick,

Just to clarify, the '63 -'64 R-3's were bored beyond 289. ;)[:p]

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
12-11-2006, 04:08 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
Studebaker built supercharged engines in '57, '58, '63, and '64. They were all 289 CID.
Dick,

Just to clarify, the '63 -'64 R-3's were bored beyond 289. ;)[:p]

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

8E45E
12-11-2006, 05:29 PM
It'll be like walking into a brick wall. Most of the car builders of today have a take it or leave it attitude. They're too busy selling cars to even paint a special color, even for a cost premium.
My 2 cents.
Rog:)


I believe its liability issues, and the EPA as to why they aren't willing to deviate from factory specs; at least as far as the drive train goes. As far as paint goes, the new two-part stuff has come a long way. It doesn't fade near as fast as it used to, and its cheaper to order a new vehicle in white and have it painted a custom/fleet color locally.

Craig.

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
[/quote]

8E45E
12-11-2006, 05:29 PM
It'll be like walking into a brick wall. Most of the car builders of today have a take it or leave it attitude. They're too busy selling cars to even paint a special color, even for a cost premium.
My 2 cents.
Rog:)


I believe its liability issues, and the EPA as to why they aren't willing to deviate from factory specs; at least as far as the drive train goes. As far as paint goes, the new two-part stuff has come a long way. It doesn't fade near as fast as it used to, and its cheaper to order a new vehicle in white and have it painted a custom/fleet color locally.

Craig.

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
[/quote]

JBrotor
12-12-2006, 07:30 AM
I spoke to my Grandpa last night. He says that he did't go through the dealership to have the car built. The engineering department delt with him directly. The Lark had a supercharged Packard engine. He says he remembers specifically the fender wells being different from the original 59 Lark. He will be driving back home this weekend and try to find some paperwork on it. I will be getting his video of the car too. I will put it on YouTube or Google Video.

JBrotor
12-12-2006, 07:30 AM
I spoke to my Grandpa last night. He says that he did't go through the dealership to have the car built. The engineering department delt with him directly. The Lark had a supercharged Packard engine. He says he remembers specifically the fender wells being different from the original 59 Lark. He will be driving back home this weekend and try to find some paperwork on it. I will be getting his video of the car too. I will put it on YouTube or Google Video.

65cruiser
12-12-2006, 07:43 AM
A supercharged Packard <anxiously awaiting video>[:p]?


quote:Originally posted by JBrotor

I spoke to my Grandpa last night. He says that he did't go through the dealership to have the car built. The engineering department delt with him directly. The Lark had a supercharged Packard engine. He says he remembers specifically the fender wells being different from the original 59 Lark. He will be driving back home this weekend and try to find some paperwork on it. I will be getting his video of the car too. I will put it on YouTube or Google Video.


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

65cruiser
12-12-2006, 07:43 AM
A supercharged Packard <anxiously awaiting video>[:p]?


quote:Originally posted by JBrotor

I spoke to my Grandpa last night. He says that he did't go through the dealership to have the car built. The engineering department delt with him directly. The Lark had a supercharged Packard engine. He says he remembers specifically the fender wells being different from the original 59 Lark. He will be driving back home this weekend and try to find some paperwork on it. I will be getting his video of the car too. I will put it on YouTube or Google Video.


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

JDP
12-12-2006, 08:56 AM
Well, you could fit a Packard engine in the Lark frame, and surplus 56 Golden Hawk engines were $750 brand new back in 59. A supercharger kit was available for the Packard V8, so they could have built a Lark so equipped "off the books" in engineering. I was buddies with a engineer that built a lot of stuff "on the side" i.e. he drove a 342 cu.in "big block" Studebaker V8 powered C cab truck with two blowers. He also sold the local teenagers lots of experimental stuff that followed him home after the plant shut down.
:)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-12-2006, 08:56 AM
Well, you could fit a Packard engine in the Lark frame, and surplus 56 Golden Hawk engines were $750 brand new back in 59. A supercharger kit was available for the Packard V8, so they could have built a Lark so equipped "off the books" in engineering. I was buddies with a engineer that built a lot of stuff "on the side" i.e. he drove a 342 cu.in "big block" Studebaker V8 powered C cab truck with two blowers. He also sold the local teenagers lots of experimental stuff that followed him home after the plant shut down.
:)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

mbstude
12-12-2006, 08:57 AM
I agree with everything that's been said here. If they actually made 50 of them, somesort of documentation would be extant. Although, I wouldn't be surprised one bit IF they actually did build them. Studebaker was kinda like Burger King; Have It Your Way. :D

I can't wait to see the video of it. Does it show the engine? It would pretty easy to determine if it actually was a Packard engine or a Studebaker engine, as they look nothing alike.

But, a Packard motor (which was last used in 1956, and is a monster of a power plant BTW) with a blower in a '59 Lark just seems too far fetched to me. It'd be a tight fit to get the hood to close. Then again, I've been proved wrong before... :) So, yes it COULD have been done with a LOT of engineering and fabricating, but WOULD have Studebaker have done it in their financial situation?

Also, do you know what ever happened to the car? As Mr. Biggs said, quite a few one-off Larks are still around today.

___________________________________________
[b]
Matthew Burnette
The 16 year old Stude nut.
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

mbstude
12-12-2006, 08:57 AM
I agree with everything that's been said here. If they actually made 50 of them, somesort of documentation would be extant. Although, I wouldn't be surprised one bit IF they actually did build them. Studebaker was kinda like Burger King; Have It Your Way. :D

I can't wait to see the video of it. Does it show the engine? It would pretty easy to determine if it actually was a Packard engine or a Studebaker engine, as they look nothing alike.

But, a Packard motor (which was last used in 1956, and is a monster of a power plant BTW) with a blower in a '59 Lark just seems too far fetched to me. It'd be a tight fit to get the hood to close. Then again, I've been proved wrong before... :) So, yes it COULD have been done with a LOT of engineering and fabricating, but WOULD have Studebaker have done it in their financial situation?

Also, do you know what ever happened to the car? As Mr. Biggs said, quite a few one-off Larks are still around today.

___________________________________________
[b]
Matthew Burnette
The 16 year old Stude nut.
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

Guido
12-12-2006, 11:21 AM
I wonder if the "supercharged" engine is a 289 out of a Packardbaker?

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
12-12-2006, 11:21 AM
I wonder if the "supercharged" engine is a 289 out of a Packardbaker?

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Roscomacaw
12-12-2006, 12:12 PM
Gary, that was my first thought - exactly! It wouldn't be the first time I've heard someone proclaim that a Stude sported a "Packard Engine" only to find out it was a 289 either FROM a PackarBaker or LIKE a PackardBaker engine.;)

This also has an aire about it that suggests we might be talking about an R-series Superlark.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
12-12-2006, 12:12 PM
Gary, that was my first thought - exactly! It wouldn't be the first time I've heard someone proclaim that a Stude sported a "Packard Engine" only to find out it was a 289 either FROM a PackarBaker or LIKE a PackardBaker engine.;)

This also has an aire about it that suggests we might be talking about an R-series Superlark.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

JBrotor
12-12-2006, 12:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
This also has an aire about it that suggests we might be talking about an R-series Superlark.



Tell me more about the R-series Superlark.

JBrotor
12-12-2006, 12:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
This also has an aire about it that suggests we might be talking about an R-series Superlark.



Tell me more about the R-series Superlark.

JDP
12-12-2006, 01:03 PM
In 1963 they offered the Avanti style engine in the Larks/Hawks in four types, the R1,the supercharged R2.& R3, and the dual 4 barrel R4. (Only one each R3/R4 sold) Later in 63 they added the Super Lark as a package with disk brakes, traction bars, HD springs/shocks and more.
Here's a R2 Lark I sold. (But not a full package SuperLark)

http://www.stude.com/5151/5151A/

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-12-2006, 01:03 PM
In 1963 they offered the Avanti style engine in the Larks/Hawks in four types, the R1,the supercharged R2.& R3, and the dual 4 barrel R4. (Only one each R3/R4 sold) Later in 63 they added the Super Lark as a package with disk brakes, traction bars, HD springs/shocks and more.
Here's a R2 Lark I sold. (But not a full package SuperLark)

http://www.stude.com/5151/5151A/

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Roscomacaw
12-12-2006, 01:38 PM
And to try and tie into Grandad's recollection just a bit more, the 289cu.in. engine that R1 and R2 SuperLarks would use is essentially the same thing as was used in the '57 & '58 Packards. Said engine was actually a STUDEBAKER engine, but since the 57 & 58 Packards were basically dolled up Studebakers, there was really nothing different about the engine they used except the serial numbers they'd assign a given engine. AND, 57 Packards came STANDARD with a McCullough supercharger on them. Of the 58 PAckards, only the Packard Hawk wore a supercharger on it's 289.;) There were NO '59 Packards and what REAL PAckard engines there had been (back when REAL Packards were being built - the last of which was 1956) were long out of production by '59.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
12-12-2006, 01:38 PM
And to try and tie into Grandad's recollection just a bit more, the 289cu.in. engine that R1 and R2 SuperLarks would use is essentially the same thing as was used in the '57 & '58 Packards. Said engine was actually a STUDEBAKER engine, but since the 57 & 58 Packards were basically dolled up Studebakers, there was really nothing different about the engine they used except the serial numbers they'd assign a given engine. AND, 57 Packards came STANDARD with a McCullough supercharger on them. Of the 58 PAckards, only the Packard Hawk wore a supercharger on it's 289.;) There were NO '59 Packards and what REAL PAckard engines there had been (back when REAL Packards were being built - the last of which was 1956) were long out of production by '59.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

JDP
12-12-2006, 02:06 PM
The Packard engine was out of production in 1959, but NOS ones complete with chrome valve covers were for sale at Standard Surplus on Sample street for $750. BTW, that's $4800 in 2005 dollars.:)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-12-2006, 02:06 PM
The Packard engine was out of production in 1959, but NOS ones complete with chrome valve covers were for sale at Standard Surplus on Sample street for $750. BTW, that's $4800 in 2005 dollars.:)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

PackardV8
12-12-2006, 07:05 PM
Greetings, All,

No way there was a series of 50 special built supercharged Packard-engined 1959 Larks. However, one is within the realm of possibility, if someone knew someone in the engineering department.

I have an old SASCO brochure from the early 1960s with the 275hp 1956 Golden Hawk Packard V8s for sale for $450.

The sales brochure which will break your heart is the Paxton Products close-out sale, with R3 and R4 stuff just being given away.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

PackardV8
12-12-2006, 07:05 PM
Greetings, All,

No way there was a series of 50 special built supercharged Packard-engined 1959 Larks. However, one is within the realm of possibility, if someone knew someone in the engineering department.

I have an old SASCO brochure from the early 1960s with the 275hp 1956 Golden Hawk Packard V8s for sale for $450.

The sales brochure which will break your heart is the Paxton Products close-out sale, with R3 and R4 stuff just being given away.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

JDP
12-12-2006, 08:52 PM
Ah, $450 not $750, that's a better deal then I recall.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-12-2006, 08:52 PM
Ah, $450 not $750, that's a better deal then I recall.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JBrotor
12-13-2006, 07:26 AM
I appreciate all comments on this subject. My Grandpa is in good health and has always been like a father to me. This car is one of his best memories in life and his stories on this topic have never changed. I believe him and would like to get more hard evidence to give to him so that he can physically touch some his greatest memories. He means alot to me and it is my dream to be able get a 59 Lark like the very one that was built for him. Once again I thank everyone here for all comments and information whether doubting or supportive.

JBrotor
12-13-2006, 07:26 AM
I appreciate all comments on this subject. My Grandpa is in good health and has always been like a father to me. This car is one of his best memories in life and his stories on this topic have never changed. I believe him and would like to get more hard evidence to give to him so that he can physically touch some his greatest memories. He means alot to me and it is my dream to be able get a 59 Lark like the very one that was built for him. Once again I thank everyone here for all comments and information whether doubting or supportive.

8E45E
12-13-2006, 08:19 AM
I believe him and would like to get more hard evidence to give to him so that he can physically touch some his greatest memories. He means alot to me and it is my dream to be able get a 59 Lark like the very one that was built for him. Once again I thank everyone here for all comments and information whether doubting or supportive.

Did your grandfather race cars in 1959? If he did, it sounds like he got excellent support from his local Studebaker dealer, prepping a lightweight Lark with the hottest engine that was available from the parts bin for the racetracks in the area. I know years ago, many local car dealers would back up a driver that raced the same make of car that they sold, and used 'genuine' accessories and services, and in turn, getting the dealer's name emblazoned on the sides of the car. After reading these posts, I'm led to believe this may have been the case.

Craig.

8E45E
12-13-2006, 08:19 AM
I believe him and would like to get more hard evidence to give to him so that he can physically touch some his greatest memories. He means alot to me and it is my dream to be able get a 59 Lark like the very one that was built for him. Once again I thank everyone here for all comments and information whether doubting or supportive.

Did your grandfather race cars in 1959? If he did, it sounds like he got excellent support from his local Studebaker dealer, prepping a lightweight Lark with the hottest engine that was available from the parts bin for the racetracks in the area. I know years ago, many local car dealers would back up a driver that raced the same make of car that they sold, and used 'genuine' accessories and services, and in turn, getting the dealer's name emblazoned on the sides of the car. After reading these posts, I'm led to believe this may have been the case.

Craig.

JBrotor
12-13-2006, 08:44 AM
He did race some. He started chopping cars when he was 15. He was known around his area for being one of the fastest on the road. Since then he has restored several classic cars, just recently selling his original 57 T-Bird (it will be missed). He says that he delt directly with the Engineering department. They called him with a proposal to build a car with his choice of parts from a parts list. He said they were impressed with his selection of parts and only recomended different suspension components.

JBrotor
12-13-2006, 08:44 AM
He did race some. He started chopping cars when he was 15. He was known around his area for being one of the fastest on the road. Since then he has restored several classic cars, just recently selling his original 57 T-Bird (it will be missed). He says that he delt directly with the Engineering department. They called him with a proposal to build a car with his choice of parts from a parts list. He said they were impressed with his selection of parts and only recomended different suspension components.

JDP
12-13-2006, 08:48 AM
In 1959 engineering was working with Hollman Moodey <sp?> on their Lark race cars.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-13-2006, 08:48 AM
In 1959 engineering was working with Hollman Moodey <sp?> on their Lark race cars.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Dick Steinkamp
12-13-2006, 08:58 AM
quote:Originally posted by JBrotor
He says that he delt directly with the Engineering department. They called him with a proposal to build a car with his choice of parts from a parts list. He said they were impressed with his selection of parts and only recomended different suspension components.


I'm confused now. Were each one of these 50 specially built Larks different? Each one spec'd by the purchaser? I was under the impression from your first posting that he owned one of 50 supercharged, 3 speed overdrive Larks. Was his perhaps the ONLY one built this way?



http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

Dick Steinkamp
12-13-2006, 08:58 AM
quote:Originally posted by JBrotor
He says that he delt directly with the Engineering department. They called him with a proposal to build a car with his choice of parts from a parts list. He said they were impressed with his selection of parts and only recomended different suspension components.


I'm confused now. Were each one of these 50 specially built Larks different? Each one spec'd by the purchaser? I was under the impression from your first posting that he owned one of 50 supercharged, 3 speed overdrive Larks. Was his perhaps the ONLY one built this way?



http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

JBrotor
12-13-2006, 12:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

Something tells me this may be a 59, but the dash plaque may be from '62 and have nothing to do with it. OR this may be a later 63 Super Lark. I cant wait to hear more. A picture says a thousand words. A thousand words without a picture- well.... I cant wait to hear or maybe see more.



It definately wasn't a 63 Super Lark, I asked him this and he said he remembers those cars too. I will post a link to the video when I get it.

JBrotor
12-13-2006, 12:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

Something tells me this may be a 59, but the dash plaque may be from '62 and have nothing to do with it. OR this may be a later 63 Super Lark. I cant wait to hear more. A picture says a thousand words. A thousand words without a picture- well.... I cant wait to hear or maybe see more.



It definately wasn't a 63 Super Lark, I asked him this and he said he remembers those cars too. I will post a link to the video when I get it.

JDP
12-13-2006, 02:06 PM
Reminds me of the cop car on ebay, no one thought it was the real deal, but it was. I looked up the name of the police department on the door, and called them. Not only did they know the car, but they e-mailed pictures. I won the bidding at a bargain price and hoped to sell it back to the town, but they could not fund it's purchase. I had a friend haul it to me on his way to York and some SOB at York offered me too good a deal and bought it off the trailer before it hit my driveway.:)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-13-2006, 02:06 PM
Reminds me of the cop car on ebay, no one thought it was the real deal, but it was. I looked up the name of the police department on the door, and called them. Not only did they know the car, but they e-mailed pictures. I won the bidding at a bargain price and hoped to sell it back to the town, but they could not fund it's purchase. I had a friend haul it to me on his way to York and some SOB at York offered me too good a deal and bought it off the trailer before it hit my driveway.:)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

8E45E
12-13-2006, 04:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Reminds me of the cop car on ebay, no one thought it was the real deal, but it was. I looked up the name of the police department on the door, and called them. Not only did they know the car, but they e-mailed pictures. I won the bidding at a bargain price and hoped to sell it back to the town, but they could not fund it's purchase. I had a friend haul it to me on his way to York and some SOB at York offered me too good a deal and bought it off the trailer before it hit my driveway.:)

Was that the '63 two door from Ohio that you posted pics of some time ago?

Craig

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

8E45E
12-13-2006, 04:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Reminds me of the cop car on ebay, no one thought it was the real deal, but it was. I looked up the name of the police department on the door, and called them. Not only did they know the car, but they e-mailed pictures. I won the bidding at a bargain price and hoped to sell it back to the town, but they could not fund it's purchase. I had a friend haul it to me on his way to York and some SOB at York offered me too good a deal and bought it off the trailer before it hit my driveway.:)

Was that the '63 two door from Ohio that you posted pics of some time ago?

Craig

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JBrotor
12-14-2006, 07:13 AM
Is Hollman Moody still around?

My Grandpa told me last night over dinner that the only stipulation for the Engineering Dept to build this car was to use the engine, supercharger, and ignition system they wanted. He could choose the trans, clutch, brakes, suspension, interior, and exterior color. They shipped the car to the local Studebaker Dealer in Illinois for him to pick up. The Dealer called him and told him to come get his car off the trailer b/c no one else wanted to. He told me that he might still have Drag Slips from this car too.

BTW, Does anyone have a black w/ red interior 59 lark for sale? Please send pics if so.

JBrotor
12-14-2006, 07:13 AM
Is Hollman Moody still around?

My Grandpa told me last night over dinner that the only stipulation for the Engineering Dept to build this car was to use the engine, supercharger, and ignition system they wanted. He could choose the trans, clutch, brakes, suspension, interior, and exterior color. They shipped the car to the local Studebaker Dealer in Illinois for him to pick up. The Dealer called him and told him to come get his car off the trailer b/c no one else wanted to. He told me that he might still have Drag Slips from this car too.

BTW, Does anyone have a black w/ red interior 59 lark for sale? Please send pics if so.

8E45E
12-14-2006, 07:56 AM
[quote]Originally posted by JBrotor

Is Hollman Moody still around?

The Dealer called him and told him to come get his car off the trailer b/c no one else wanted to. He told me that he might still have Drag Slips from this car too.

Therefore, am I correct in my theorizing your grandfather owned a factory/dealer-backed Lark built strictly for racing on the track?
I know that no Larks in 1959 were built with a supercharger for 'street' use.

Craig.

8E45E
12-14-2006, 07:56 AM
[quote]Originally posted by JBrotor

Is Hollman Moody still around?

The Dealer called him and told him to come get his car off the trailer b/c no one else wanted to. He told me that he might still have Drag Slips from this car too.

Therefore, am I correct in my theorizing your grandfather owned a factory/dealer-backed Lark built strictly for racing on the track?
I know that no Larks in 1959 were built with a supercharger for 'street' use.

Craig.

CKOT
12-14-2006, 09:13 AM
just following this thread, to answer another post of why we love Studebakers, this post is a great reason why. Just look at the interest, the history discussed, the knowledgebase of the respondents, and the mystery around this one. Completely fascinating!

Chris Kot
'63GT Hawk, '37 Dictator

CKOT
12-14-2006, 09:13 AM
just following this thread, to answer another post of why we love Studebakers, this post is a great reason why. Just look at the interest, the history discussed, the knowledgebase of the respondents, and the mystery around this one. Completely fascinating!

Chris Kot
'63GT Hawk, '37 Dictator

Roscomacaw
12-14-2006, 10:30 AM
Well, there's a fair number of 59 Larks around, but if you REALLY wanna revisit Gramp's memories, you'll need to be more specific than black with a red interior. What body style was it? Might be safe to assume a 2-dr sedan, but there were 4-drs, 2-dr hardtops and 2-dr wagons available in the Lark lineup that year as well.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
12-14-2006, 10:30 AM
Well, there's a fair number of 59 Larks around, but if you REALLY wanna revisit Gramp's memories, you'll need to be more specific than black with a red interior. What body style was it? Might be safe to assume a 2-dr sedan, but there were 4-drs, 2-dr hardtops and 2-dr wagons available in the Lark lineup that year as well.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Dick Steinkamp
12-14-2006, 10:42 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Well, there's a fair number of 59 Larks around, but if you REALLY wanna revisit Gramp's memories, you'll need to be more specific than black with a red interior. What body style was it?


I might add that if you are going to "clone" gramp's car (not a bad idea [8D]), you don't need to start with one that was the same color as his. I'd suggest finding the best, rust free one you can that is the same body style and trim level (Deluxe or Regal) that gramps had. You'll also want one that was a V8 car originally since not only was the engine different from the 6's, but so too was the transmission, rear end, brakes, springs, etc. Matching gramps paint and upholstery during the restoration would be the easy part.





http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

Dick Steinkamp
12-14-2006, 10:42 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Well, there's a fair number of 59 Larks around, but if you REALLY wanna revisit Gramp's memories, you'll need to be more specific than black with a red interior. What body style was it?


I might add that if you are going to "clone" gramp's car (not a bad idea [8D]), you don't need to start with one that was the same color as his. I'd suggest finding the best, rust free one you can that is the same body style and trim level (Deluxe or Regal) that gramps had. You'll also want one that was a V8 car originally since not only was the engine different from the 6's, but so too was the transmission, rear end, brakes, springs, etc. Matching gramps paint and upholstery during the restoration would be the easy part.





http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

tstclr
12-14-2006, 12:26 PM
Yes, we are all watching this thread with bated breath!
Any chance your Grandpa has an old photo kicking around?

Todd

63 Lark 2dr Sedan
64 Daytona 4dr Sedan

tstclr
12-14-2006, 12:26 PM
Yes, we are all watching this thread with bated breath!
Any chance your Grandpa has an old photo kicking around?

Todd

63 Lark 2dr Sedan
64 Daytona 4dr Sedan

JBrotor
12-14-2006, 12:42 PM
I will try to get my hands on every item that has to do with the car. It was a 2dr HT. I will first post the 8mm that was converted to VHS, which I will copy to a DVD.

JBrotor
12-14-2006, 12:42 PM
I will try to get my hands on every item that has to do with the car. It was a 2dr HT. I will first post the 8mm that was converted to VHS, which I will copy to a DVD.

mbstude
12-14-2006, 01:06 PM
Just to be sure, is this the car?

http://www.tocmp.com/pix/Studebaker/images/59Studebaker03-or.jpg

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

mbstude
12-14-2006, 01:06 PM
Just to be sure, is this the car?

http://www.tocmp.com/pix/Studebaker/images/59Studebaker03-or.jpg

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

JBrotor
12-14-2006, 01:27 PM
ABSOLUTELY IT. I would love to have one.

JBrotor
12-14-2006, 01:27 PM
ABSOLUTELY IT. I would love to have one.

Dick Steinkamp
12-14-2006, 04:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by mbstude
http://www.tocmp.com/pix/Studebaker/images/59Studebaker03-or.jpg


I love the red wheels on that black Lark with the red interior. It just wouldn't look the same with body color wheels.

Were any actually delivered with other than body colored wheels?


http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

Dick Steinkamp
12-14-2006, 04:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by mbstude
http://www.tocmp.com/pix/Studebaker/images/59Studebaker03-or.jpg


I love the red wheels on that black Lark with the red interior. It just wouldn't look the same with body color wheels.

Were any actually delivered with other than body colored wheels?


http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

JBrotor
12-15-2006, 06:57 AM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E

[quote]Originally posted by JBrotor

Is Hollman Moody still around?

The Dealer called him and told him to come get his car off the trailer b/c no one else wanted to. He told me that he might still have Drag Slips from this car too.

Therefore, am I correct in my theorizing your grandfather owned a factory/dealer-backed Lark built strictly for racing on the track?
I know that no Larks in 1959 were built with a supercharger for 'street' use.

Craig.


He ordered it directly from the Engineering department and they delivered it for him to the nearest Stude Dealer.

He told me last night a bit more about the details on the car. It had a Taxi Cab Tranny w/ 3 speed overdrive, Mallory ignition with dual points, Wagner brakes, Taxi Cab diff. around 3.5 or 3.6, and it would burn up a clutch in about 5 or 6 runs at the drag strip. The engineering department even gave him another set of experimental brakes to use on his car as a street/strip test bench.

JBrotor
12-15-2006, 06:57 AM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E

[quote]Originally posted by JBrotor

Is Hollman Moody still around?

The Dealer called him and told him to come get his car off the trailer b/c no one else wanted to. He told me that he might still have Drag Slips from this car too.

Therefore, am I correct in my theorizing your grandfather owned a factory/dealer-backed Lark built strictly for racing on the track?
I know that no Larks in 1959 were built with a supercharger for 'street' use.

Craig.


He ordered it directly from the Engineering department and they delivered it for him to the nearest Stude Dealer.

He told me last night a bit more about the details on the car. It had a Taxi Cab Tranny w/ 3 speed overdrive, Mallory ignition with dual points, Wagner brakes, Taxi Cab diff. around 3.5 or 3.6, and it would burn up a clutch in about 5 or 6 runs at the drag strip. The engineering department even gave him another set of experimental brakes to use on his car as a street/strip test bench.

8E45E
12-15-2006, 07:52 AM
He told me last night a bit more about the details on the car. It had a Taxi Cab Tranny w/ 3 speed overdrive, Mallory ignition with dual points, Wagner brakes, Taxi Cab diff. around 3.5 or 3.6, and it would burn up a clutch in about 5 or 6 runs at the drag strip. The engineering department even gave him another set of experimental brakes to use on his car as a street/strip test bench.
[/quote]

Now ask him if him and his Lark made it in any of the magazines like Hot Rod, or Car Life, et al; or even the local newspaper in the sports section. Your grandfather would no doubt have a file folder or clippings of his and his car if it did, and would love to see some of them posted here; especially if his Lark was a factory-backed effort.

Craig.

8E45E
12-15-2006, 07:52 AM
He told me last night a bit more about the details on the car. It had a Taxi Cab Tranny w/ 3 speed overdrive, Mallory ignition with dual points, Wagner brakes, Taxi Cab diff. around 3.5 or 3.6, and it would burn up a clutch in about 5 or 6 runs at the drag strip. The engineering department even gave him another set of experimental brakes to use on his car as a street/strip test bench.
[/quote]

Now ask him if him and his Lark made it in any of the magazines like Hot Rod, or Car Life, et al; or even the local newspaper in the sports section. Your grandfather would no doubt have a file folder or clippings of his and his car if it did, and would love to see some of them posted here; especially if his Lark was a factory-backed effort.

Craig.

JBrotor
12-15-2006, 08:25 AM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E



He told me last night a bit more about the details on the car. It had a Taxi Cab Tranny w/ 3 speed overdrive, Mallory ignition with dual points, Wagner brakes, Taxi Cab diff. around 3.5 or 3.6, and it would burn up a clutch in about 5 or 6 runs at the drag strip. The engineering department even gave him another set of experimental brakes to use on his car as a street/strip test bench.


Now ask him if him and his Lark made it in any of the magazines like Hot Rod, or Car Life, et al; or even the local newspaper in the sports section. Your grandfather would no doubt have a file folder or clippings of his and his car if it did, and would love to see some of them posted here; especially if his Lark was a factory-backed effort.

Craig.
[/quote]

With as many of you that are are strongly interested in this, I will share every bit of what I get from him.

JBrotor
12-15-2006, 08:25 AM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E



He told me last night a bit more about the details on the car. It had a Taxi Cab Tranny w/ 3 speed overdrive, Mallory ignition with dual points, Wagner brakes, Taxi Cab diff. around 3.5 or 3.6, and it would burn up a clutch in about 5 or 6 runs at the drag strip. The engineering department even gave him another set of experimental brakes to use on his car as a street/strip test bench.


Now ask him if him and his Lark made it in any of the magazines like Hot Rod, or Car Life, et al; or even the local newspaper in the sports section. Your grandfather would no doubt have a file folder or clippings of his and his car if it did, and would love to see some of them posted here; especially if his Lark was a factory-backed effort.

Craig.
[/quote]

With as many of you that are are strongly interested in this, I will share every bit of what I get from him.

PackardV8
12-15-2006, 03:51 PM
Hi, JBroter:

In addition to the details of the car, we would appreciate knowing who was his contact person within the Engineering Department and how your grandfather came to know such a special order was possible.

If you mentioned it in an earlier post, I missed it, but where are you located and who was the local dealer?

Many thanks for sharing this unique bit of Studebaker history.

jv.

PackardV8

PackardV8
12-15-2006, 03:51 PM
Hi, JBroter:

In addition to the details of the car, we would appreciate knowing who was his contact person within the Engineering Department and how your grandfather came to know such a special order was possible.

If you mentioned it in an earlier post, I missed it, but where are you located and who was the local dealer?

Many thanks for sharing this unique bit of Studebaker history.

jv.

PackardV8

JBrotor
12-15-2006, 04:44 PM
He can't remember the engineers' name, unfortunately. The number of the Engineering Department was given to him by a person at the dealership in Illinois that knew about his drag racing and custom cars. No the car was not built to order through the dealer. He delt directly with the Eng. Dept.. Apparently they wanted to build this type of car for serious people that were refered by someone close to the Eng. Dept.. Trust me, I am trying to pick his brain for every tiny detail. He will be going back home tommorrow and hopefully willing to go through the attic for more evidence (hopefully find some paperwork). ;)

JBrotor
12-15-2006, 04:44 PM
He can't remember the engineers' name, unfortunately. The number of the Engineering Department was given to him by a person at the dealership in Illinois that knew about his drag racing and custom cars. No the car was not built to order through the dealer. He delt directly with the Eng. Dept.. Apparently they wanted to build this type of car for serious people that were refered by someone close to the Eng. Dept.. Trust me, I am trying to pick his brain for every tiny detail. He will be going back home tommorrow and hopefully willing to go through the attic for more evidence (hopefully find some paperwork). ;)

Roscomacaw
12-15-2006, 05:01 PM
This is interesting stuff. I don't recall ever reading about the engineering department dealing directly with a prospective customer.

That transmission would've been the T-85 and I believe it could be ordered with floor shift. The rear would be the DANA 44. Both those above items would have been standard on the 57-58 Golden Hawks (The T-85 when ordered with a manual tranny)so they were known to be able to work behind a supercharged 289. His recollection of the rear ratio is in line with the avaiable 3:54 axle and while that's a good compromise between economy and performance, if the car's primary mission was strip racing, one would think he'd have gone with 4:10 or even 4:55 gears. Since it had OD, those gears would've been great for the strip (with the OD locked out) and yet economical for road driving.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
12-15-2006, 05:01 PM
This is interesting stuff. I don't recall ever reading about the engineering department dealing directly with a prospective customer.

That transmission would've been the T-85 and I believe it could be ordered with floor shift. The rear would be the DANA 44. Both those above items would have been standard on the 57-58 Golden Hawks (The T-85 when ordered with a manual tranny)so they were known to be able to work behind a supercharged 289. His recollection of the rear ratio is in line with the avaiable 3:54 axle and while that's a good compromise between economy and performance, if the car's primary mission was strip racing, one would think he'd have gone with 4:10 or even 4:55 gears. Since it had OD, those gears would've been great for the strip (with the OD locked out) and yet economical for road driving.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

8E45E
12-15-2006, 05:15 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

This is interesting stuff. I don't recall ever reading about the engineering department dealing directly with a prospective customer.

I remember reading Paxton did....and I believe the factory, too, but that was a few years later. I recall Myles Walker had some liason with Studebaker, and there was a write-up in TW in 1979 with some of his correspondence repinted. Most interesting was the heater switch on the dash was replaced with a alternator cut-out switch to maximize available HP.

Craig.

8E45E
12-15-2006, 05:15 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

This is interesting stuff. I don't recall ever reading about the engineering department dealing directly with a prospective customer.

I remember reading Paxton did....and I believe the factory, too, but that was a few years later. I recall Myles Walker had some liason with Studebaker, and there was a write-up in TW in 1979 with some of his correspondence repinted. Most interesting was the heater switch on the dash was replaced with a alternator cut-out switch to maximize available HP.

Craig.

JDP
12-15-2006, 05:33 PM
He must have had a exceptional connection with the factory to do that, but it did happen on occasion. i.e. the big fleet dealer that had the R2 Champ trucks built or the Saudi's that got the white leather and other touches on Packard Hawks.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-15-2006, 05:33 PM
He must have had a exceptional connection with the factory to do that, but it did happen on occasion. i.e. the big fleet dealer that had the R2 Champ trucks built or the Saudi's that got the white leather and other touches on Packard Hawks.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

mbstude
12-15-2006, 05:37 PM
This car gets more and more interesting each day! Can't wait to see that video. [8D]

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

mbstude
12-15-2006, 05:37 PM
This car gets more and more interesting each day! Can't wait to see that video. [8D]

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

PackardV8
12-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Hi, Mr. Biggs,

Where can I go to find more info on the T-85 OD being available for order with a floor shift in 1959?

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

PackardV8
12-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Hi, Mr. Biggs,

Where can I go to find more info on the T-85 OD being available for order with a floor shift in 1959?

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

8E45E
12-15-2006, 07:57 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JDP

He must have had a exceptional connection with the factory to do that, but it did happen on occasion.

You may want to check out your April, 1979 issue of Turning Wheels.
The correspondence is VERY interesting reading. It apparently starts at Studebaker in October, 1963, and got turned over to Paxton Products after South Bend shut down, and continued until 1967 or so.

I think it was a case of Studebaker wanting to please a customer, not someone of 'exceptional connection'

Craig.

8E45E
12-15-2006, 07:57 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JDP

He must have had a exceptional connection with the factory to do that, but it did happen on occasion.

You may want to check out your April, 1979 issue of Turning Wheels.
The correspondence is VERY interesting reading. It apparently starts at Studebaker in October, 1963, and got turned over to Paxton Products after South Bend shut down, and continued until 1967 or so.

I think it was a case of Studebaker wanting to please a customer, not someone of 'exceptional connection'

Craig.

JDP
12-15-2006, 08:16 PM
Too lazy to dig through all my TW's but what special car did they build for him in engineering.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-15-2006, 08:16 PM
Too lazy to dig through all my TW's but what special car did they build for him in engineering.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

8E45E
12-15-2006, 10:47 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JDP

Too lazy to dig through all my TW's but what special car did they build for that guy in engineering ?


One of Granatelli's R3 Daytonas.

http://static.flickr.com/142/323570087_0f2cbe7b0d.jpg?v=0

Craig

8E45E
12-15-2006, 10:47 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JDP

Too lazy to dig through all my TW's but what special car did they build for that guy in engineering ?


One of Granatelli's R3 Daytonas.

http://static.flickr.com/142/323570087_0f2cbe7b0d.jpg?v=0

Craig

JDP
12-15-2006, 11:20 PM
OK, but they built the car for Granatelli and just sold it to the fellow asking to buy it. They sold off the prototype Avanti's built in 62 after converting them to 64's too. I know of cars that were painted a non stock color at a customers request, but never a custom built race car like the Lark we are discussing for a "man off the street".


http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-15-2006, 11:20 PM
OK, but they built the car for Granatelli and just sold it to the fellow asking to buy it. They sold off the prototype Avanti's built in 62 after converting them to 64's too. I know of cars that were painted a non stock color at a customers request, but never a custom built race car like the Lark we are discussing for a "man off the street".


http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Roscomacaw
12-16-2006, 02:58 PM
jv, I was working from memory on what I said about the floor shift. I DO know that some fleet cars (mostly taxi cabs) had an option of floor shift but I don't see it listed for a V8 in my references. T-85 for sure tho, was what was used in HD apps. HD 6cyls DID have floor shift options later on. Kinda strange they didn't offer such for the V8s. Maybe most the cabs were actually 6s. The HD trans for the 6s was the T-90. Looking at the books, it sure looks like the optional T-90 floor shifter for '62 would work just fine on a T86 - the tranny that was used behind most V8 applications.
As to this custom-built 59 Lark, if it was built up by engineering it seems reasonable to think it could have been fitted with a floor shifter since such was certainly available at that time - even if not from Studebaker's parts bins.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
12-16-2006, 02:58 PM
jv, I was working from memory on what I said about the floor shift. I DO know that some fleet cars (mostly taxi cabs) had an option of floor shift but I don't see it listed for a V8 in my references. T-85 for sure tho, was what was used in HD apps. HD 6cyls DID have floor shift options later on. Kinda strange they didn't offer such for the V8s. Maybe most the cabs were actually 6s. The HD trans for the 6s was the T-90. Looking at the books, it sure looks like the optional T-90 floor shifter for '62 would work just fine on a T86 - the tranny that was used behind most V8 applications.
As to this custom-built 59 Lark, if it was built up by engineering it seems reasonable to think it could have been fitted with a floor shifter since such was certainly available at that time - even if not from Studebaker's parts bins.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

JDP
12-16-2006, 04:49 PM
Studebaker Plant 8 go so many requests for the many parts that made up the M series truck floor shift that we used on our V8's that they made up a "kit" with them all, including instructions.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
12-16-2006, 04:49 PM
Studebaker Plant 8 go so many requests for the many parts that made up the M series truck floor shift that we used on our V8's that they made up a "kit" with them all, including instructions.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Bill Pressler
12-16-2006, 05:33 PM
For those who might not know, the Myles Walker in the letter from the Granatellis a few posts up, regarding the R3 Daytona for sale from the factory, is at Hershey virtually every year and is the owner of the Black Sports Roof-over White '64 R2 GT pictured in lstude's post of 11/19/06--the car for sale for $47K at Hershey this year.

I've talked to him a couple times. Nice guy. In conversation I told him where I grew up and he said he used to pass through there en route to a nearby town where he had a customer to call on. He remembered stopping at the local Stude dealer in my hometown and checking out the Service Manager's black '64 R2 Cruiser with complete High Performance Package. He described it to a "T". I had never seen the car, did not mention it at all to him before, but have sure heard about it from the original owner and other folks!

Small world.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH

Bill Pressler
12-16-2006, 05:33 PM
For those who might not know, the Myles Walker in the letter from the Granatellis a few posts up, regarding the R3 Daytona for sale from the factory, is at Hershey virtually every year and is the owner of the Black Sports Roof-over White '64 R2 GT pictured in lstude's post of 11/19/06--the car for sale for $47K at Hershey this year.

I've talked to him a couple times. Nice guy. In conversation I told him where I grew up and he said he used to pass through there en route to a nearby town where he had a customer to call on. He remembered stopping at the local Stude dealer in my hometown and checking out the Service Manager's black '64 R2 Cruiser with complete High Performance Package. He described it to a "T". I had never seen the car, did not mention it at all to him before, but have sure heard about it from the original owner and other folks!

Small world.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH

8E45E
12-16-2006, 05:53 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Bill Pressler

For those who might not know, the Myles Walker in the letter from the Granatellis a few posts up, regarding the R3 Daytona for sale from the factory, is at Hershey virtually every year and is the owner of the Black Sports Roof-over White '64 R2 GT pictured in lstude's post of 11/19/06--the car for sale for $47K at Hershey this year.

I've talked to him a couple times. Nice guy.

Yep, he IS a very nice guy. I had the privilege of meeting him in South Bend in 2002 when he was prepping that '64 GT Hawk at the Concours for judging on the Thursday. Has some very interesting hi-po Stude information.

Craig.

8E45E
12-16-2006, 05:53 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Bill Pressler

For those who might not know, the Myles Walker in the letter from the Granatellis a few posts up, regarding the R3 Daytona for sale from the factory, is at Hershey virtually every year and is the owner of the Black Sports Roof-over White '64 R2 GT pictured in lstude's post of 11/19/06--the car for sale for $47K at Hershey this year.

I've talked to him a couple times. Nice guy.

Yep, he IS a very nice guy. I had the privilege of meeting him in South Bend in 2002 when he was prepping that '64 GT Hawk at the Concours for judging on the Thursday. Has some very interesting hi-po Stude information.

Craig.

JBrotor
12-18-2006, 06:41 AM
My Grandpa is heading back home today. He will be too tired to hunt for any artifacts on the Lark today. Hopefully he calls tomorrow with an inventory on all items related to this topic. I will keep you all posted, I am getting excited.

JBrotor
12-18-2006, 06:41 AM
My Grandpa is heading back home today. He will be too tired to hunt for any artifacts on the Lark today. Hopefully he calls tomorrow with an inventory on all items related to this topic. I will keep you all posted, I am getting excited.

PackardV8
12-18-2006, 03:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

jv, I was working from memory on what I said about the floor shift. I DO know that some fleet cars (mostly taxi cabs) had an option of floor shift but I don't see it listed for a V8 in my references. T-85 for sure tho, was what was used in HD apps. HD 6cyls DID have floor shift options later on. Kinda strange they didn't offer such for the V8s. Maybe most the cabs were actually 6s. The HD trans for the 6s was the T-90. Looking at the books, it sure looks like the optional T-90 floor shifter for '62 would work just fine on a T86 - the tranny that was used behind most V8 applications.
As to this custom-built 59 Lark, if it was built up by engineering it seems reasonable to think it could have been fitted with a floor shifter since such was certainly available at that time - even if not from Studebaker's parts bins.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe



The T86 has a top cover, so it and the T96 are possible to convert to top shift by using the old Stude M-series or later Jeep floor shift mechanism. It is not a bolt-in, but has been done hundreds of times.

Since the T-85 is a side-cover transmission, I am not aware of older stock parts available in 1959 which would have worked. Always leave room to learn, but I have never seen, nor known anyone who has seen a factory T-85 floorshift in a taxi. While we are asking, weren't some HD taxi trannies the T-89 straight 3-speed without OD?

Rumor has it the first few 1963 Avanti came with T-85 3-speeds and floor shifts, but I have never personally seen one.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

PackardV8
12-18-2006, 03:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

jv, I was working from memory on what I said about the floor shift. I DO know that some fleet cars (mostly taxi cabs) had an option of floor shift but I don't see it listed for a V8 in my references. T-85 for sure tho, was what was used in HD apps. HD 6cyls DID have floor shift options later on. Kinda strange they didn't offer such for the V8s. Maybe most the cabs were actually 6s. The HD trans for the 6s was the T-90. Looking at the books, it sure looks like the optional T-90 floor shifter for '62 would work just fine on a T86 - the tranny that was used behind most V8 applications.
As to this custom-built 59 Lark, if it was built up by engineering it seems reasonable to think it could have been fitted with a floor shifter since such was certainly available at that time - even if not from Studebaker's parts bins.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe



The T86 has a top cover, so it and the T96 are possible to convert to top shift by using the old Stude M-series or later Jeep floor shift mechanism. It is not a bolt-in, but has been done hundreds of times.

Since the T-85 is a side-cover transmission, I am not aware of older stock parts available in 1959 which would have worked. Always leave room to learn, but I have never seen, nor known anyone who has seen a factory T-85 floorshift in a taxi. While we are asking, weren't some HD taxi trannies the T-89 straight 3-speed without OD?

Rumor has it the first few 1963 Avanti came with T-85 3-speeds and floor shifts, but I have never personally seen one.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

StudeRich
12-19-2006, 01:50 AM
That's very true, however they were not the first cars. The T-86 no Overdrive, was always the "base" Trans. for the Avanti, but fortunetely most dealers had enough sense NOT to order them! Not available with R2 option! :D:D

Most of them were the '64's that Studebaker and Allstate tires gave away in a contest and also had no power steering, :( another almost always ordered option. But of course they had Allstate Tires![^]

With all that "cheapness" going on, I certainly would think that they were also the Basic Interior, and not the "Regal" interior as well. Those have perferated non-pleated seat inserts and no pleats on door & quarter panels.
Rich.


quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

No rumor about the Avanti having a 3 speed. They were not T85's though. They were T 86. Must have been the worst combo ever!

StudeRich
12-19-2006, 01:50 AM
That's very true, however they were not the first cars. The T-86 no Overdrive, was always the "base" Trans. for the Avanti, but fortunetely most dealers had enough sense NOT to order them! Not available with R2 option! :D:D

Most of them were the '64's that Studebaker and Allstate tires gave away in a contest and also had no power steering, :( another almost always ordered option. But of course they had Allstate Tires![^]

With all that "cheapness" going on, I certainly would think that they were also the Basic Interior, and not the "Regal" interior as well. Those have perferated non-pleated seat inserts and no pleats on door & quarter panels.
Rich.


quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

No rumor about the Avanti having a 3 speed. They were not T85's though. They were T 86. Must have been the worst combo ever!

8E45E
12-19-2006, 07:57 AM
Those have perferated non-pleated seat inserts and no pleats on door & quarter panels.
Rich.


To be real honest, I like that perforated vinyl interior better than the Regal one. And it has stood the test of time real well. Many cars, especially the Europeans, have been using perforated vinyl for years.

Craig

8E45E
12-19-2006, 07:57 AM
Those have perferated non-pleated seat inserts and no pleats on door & quarter panels.
Rich.


To be real honest, I like that perforated vinyl interior better than the Regal one. And it has stood the test of time real well. Many cars, especially the Europeans, have been using perforated vinyl for years.

Craig

PackardV8
01-01-2007, 11:43 PM
Greetings,

Any more clarification from Grandad? Got us all stirred up and anxiously awaiting details!

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

PackardV8
01-01-2007, 11:43 PM
Greetings,

Any more clarification from Grandad? Got us all stirred up and anxiously awaiting details!

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

go-studebaker
01-02-2007, 02:08 AM
This is a great ripping yarn.

Can we have more fabulous stories like this. They make me laugh.

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1988 Avanti Convertible

go-studebaker
01-02-2007, 02:08 AM
This is a great ripping yarn.

Can we have more fabulous stories like this. They make me laugh.

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1988 Avanti Convertible

JBrotor
01-02-2007, 02:58 PM
I started this post not only to share some of his favorite memories but to also find where abouts of a similar Lark that I could give to him as gift for being like a father to me. It would propably be his last restoration project and surely the best after all the good memories of his 59 Lark. Look elsewhere for a good laugh or please keep your negative comments to yourself.


quote:Originally posted by go-studebaker

This is a great ripping yarn.

Can we have more fabulous stories like this. They make me laugh.

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1988 Avanti Convertible

JBrotor
01-02-2007, 02:58 PM
I started this post not only to share some of his favorite memories but to also find where abouts of a similar Lark that I could give to him as gift for being like a father to me. It would propably be his last restoration project and surely the best after all the good memories of his 59 Lark. Look elsewhere for a good laugh or please keep your negative comments to yourself.


quote:Originally posted by go-studebaker

This is a great ripping yarn.

Can we have more fabulous stories like this. They make me laugh.

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1988 Avanti Convertible

DEEPNHOCK
01-02-2007, 04:21 PM
Hey, don't take it wrong!
Your claim is incredibly interesting.
Many, many people here are historians on the Studebaker history, particularly the high performance side of the company.
You popped up here making a claim that needs to be proven (or disproven). The 'provenance' process you are trying to complete is a journey that will have many dead ends and few giant victories. But if and when you do have all the info, you will be better off for the quest. Just be aware that memories can fade, and facts don't change. I hope you are able to find what you are searching for. Don't get mad at the doubters, they have their place in the process. Don't get mad... Get to work! Dig dig dig out the facts! And hurry up on the restoration. Your grandfathers clock is running, and time is short.
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by JBrotor

I started this post not only to share some of his favorite memories but to also find where abouts of a similar Lark that I could give to him as gift for being like a father to me. It would propably be his last restoration project and surely the best after all the good memories of his 59 Lark. Look elsewhere for a good laugh or please keep your negative comments to yourself.


quote:Originally posted by go-studebaker

This is a great ripping yarn.

Can we have more fabulous stories like this. They make me laugh.

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1988 Avanti Convertible



http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
01-02-2007, 04:21 PM
Hey, don't take it wrong!
Your claim is incredibly interesting.
Many, many people here are historians on the Studebaker history, particularly the high performance side of the company.
You popped up here making a claim that needs to be proven (or disproven). The 'provenance' process you are trying to complete is a journey that will have many dead ends and few giant victories. But if and when you do have all the info, you will be better off for the quest. Just be aware that memories can fade, and facts don't change. I hope you are able to find what you are searching for. Don't get mad at the doubters, they have their place in the process. Don't get mad... Get to work! Dig dig dig out the facts! And hurry up on the restoration. Your grandfathers clock is running, and time is short.
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by JBrotor

I started this post not only to share some of his favorite memories but to also find where abouts of a similar Lark that I could give to him as gift for being like a father to me. It would propably be his last restoration project and surely the best after all the good memories of his 59 Lark. Look elsewhere for a good laugh or please keep your negative comments to yourself.


quote:Originally posted by go-studebaker

This is a great ripping yarn.

Can we have more fabulous stories like this. They make me laugh.

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1988 Avanti Convertible



http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

lstude
01-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Jeremy, you will have to cut the members of this forum some slack. When you have been in this hobby as long as most of us and own a Studebaker, you have heard almost every story imaginable.

If Studebaker was able to sell as many Golden Hawks as the number of people I have met who owned one or knew someone who owned one, they would probably still be in business! At the last AACA meet where I had my Studebaker, a guy told me that his uncle had the only factory 4 speed 57 Golden Hawk made.

You can't blame people for being skeptical, because there is so much misinformation out there.

I think it is great that you want to do something for your Grandfather and that he is still interested, but people just want verification.


Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

lstude
01-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Jeremy, you will have to cut the members of this forum some slack. When you have been in this hobby as long as most of us and own a Studebaker, you have heard almost every story imaginable.

If Studebaker was able to sell as many Golden Hawks as the number of people I have met who owned one or knew someone who owned one, they would probably still be in business! At the last AACA meet where I had my Studebaker, a guy told me that his uncle had the only factory 4 speed 57 Golden Hawk made.

You can't blame people for being skeptical, because there is so much misinformation out there.

I think it is great that you want to do something for your Grandfather and that he is still interested, but people just want verification.


Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

Guido
01-02-2007, 09:04 PM
Jeremy,

I think that people are perfectly justified in being skeptical. You have indicated that your grandfather had a car built for him that does not appear to be catalogued anywhere. You need to understand that given the relatively low volume of vehicles produced by Studebaker, that most "oddballs" are known within the club. I personally know of the location of several, including the lone crew cab diesel, a diesel taxi, the experimental diesel Zip Van, etc. It is more remote that a "hot" supercharged car would have escaped detection, either by sighting or from production records.

You have made mention that this was numbered 37 out of 50 built. If this was the case it seems odd that none of the others have ever apparently surfaced. There is also the fact that there were no Packard engines produced after 1956 and the 1956 Golden Hawk was the only Studebaker ever built with a true Packard engine factory installed.

The 1957 and 1958 Packard's were merely upgraded Studebakers. While some were equipped with superchargers, a blower was not an available option in 1959 and would not reappear until the introduction of the 1963 Avanti.

I certainly hope that you can produce tangible evidence to support your post. Until that time, I too will have to remain a skeptic.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
01-02-2007, 09:04 PM
Jeremy,

I think that people are perfectly justified in being skeptical. You have indicated that your grandfather had a car built for him that does not appear to be catalogued anywhere. You need to understand that given the relatively low volume of vehicles produced by Studebaker, that most "oddballs" are known within the club. I personally know of the location of several, including the lone crew cab diesel, a diesel taxi, the experimental diesel Zip Van, etc. It is more remote that a "hot" supercharged car would have escaped detection, either by sighting or from production records.

You have made mention that this was numbered 37 out of 50 built. If this was the case it seems odd that none of the others have ever apparently surfaced. There is also the fact that there were no Packard engines produced after 1956 and the 1956 Golden Hawk was the only Studebaker ever built with a true Packard engine factory installed.

The 1957 and 1958 Packard's were merely upgraded Studebakers. While some were equipped with superchargers, a blower was not an available option in 1959 and would not reappear until the introduction of the 1963 Avanti.

I certainly hope that you can produce tangible evidence to support your post. Until that time, I too will have to remain a skeptic.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

arkiejazz
01-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Ditto what Gary said[:o)]

steve blake
http://tinyurl.com/kr3gt
http://tinyurl.com/l7oqh

arkiejazz
01-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Ditto what Gary said[:o)]

steve blake
http://tinyurl.com/kr3gt
http://tinyurl.com/l7oqh

8E45E
01-02-2007, 11:29 PM
[quote]Originally posted by arkiejazz

Ditto what Gary said[:o)]

I will say the same to that, until you are able to furnish some kind of proof of its existence; either from the factory, or otherwise. A good case in point is the current post on sports cars that were built by Raymond Loewy. On the thread, they have been confirmed by three magazine articles on them so far; two when they were current, and one a number of years after they were produced, with original photos accompanying the story. Therfore, myself and others here have no doubts in our minds that Raymond Loewy's personal sports cars are for real. I have personally not seen any of them, but I firmly believe that they were built. A Lark like what you have been describing to us would not have escaped the notice of popular hot rodding magazines of the day, and someone I'm sure would have come forth by now, and would have posted a magazine/newspaper article of it, or at least remembered it. So the ball is in your court.

Craig

8E45E
01-02-2007, 11:29 PM
[quote]Originally posted by arkiejazz

Ditto what Gary said[:o)]

I will say the same to that, until you are able to furnish some kind of proof of its existence; either from the factory, or otherwise. A good case in point is the current post on sports cars that were built by Raymond Loewy. On the thread, they have been confirmed by three magazine articles on them so far; two when they were current, and one a number of years after they were produced, with original photos accompanying the story. Therfore, myself and others here have no doubts in our minds that Raymond Loewy's personal sports cars are for real. I have personally not seen any of them, but I firmly believe that they were built. A Lark like what you have been describing to us would not have escaped the notice of popular hot rodding magazines of the day, and someone I'm sure would have come forth by now, and would have posted a magazine/newspaper article of it, or at least remembered it. So the ball is in your court.

Craig

JDP
01-03-2007, 08:37 AM
Guys, let's not to be too hard on the kid who is after all, trying to do something for grand dad. We all may embellish a a good story now now and then, or have a faulty recollection in our old age. I think we can assume grand dad has some special memories of a unusual Studebaker that he own, we just need to help recreate that memory even if the memory may be a little hazy.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
01-03-2007, 08:37 AM
Guys, let's not to be too hard on the kid who is after all, trying to do something for grand dad. We all may embellish a a good story now now and then, or have a faulty recollection in our old age. I think we can assume grand dad has some special memories of a unusual Studebaker that he own, we just need to help recreate that memory even if the memory may be a little hazy.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

54-61-62
01-03-2007, 09:00 AM
Get idea John to get on the kid's "good side"! You might even be able to sell him rare one-of-a-kind 289 V8 studebaker; you know they on special order installed Ford engines at the studebaker factory[}:)]

Kent


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Guys, let's not to be too hard on the kid who is after all, trying to do something for grand dad. We all may embellish a a good story now now and then, or have a faulty recollection in our old age. I think we can assume grand dad has some special memories of a unusual Studebaker that he own, we just need to help recreate that memory even if the memory may be a little hazy.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

54-61-62
01-03-2007, 09:00 AM
Get idea John to get on the kid's "good side"! You might even be able to sell him rare one-of-a-kind 289 V8 studebaker; you know they on special order installed Ford engines at the studebaker factory[}:)]

Kent


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Guys, let's not to be too hard on the kid who is after all, trying to do something for grand dad. We all may embellish a a good story now now and then, or have a faulty recollection in our old age. I think we can assume grand dad has some special memories of a unusual Studebaker that he own, we just need to help recreate that memory even if the memory may be a little hazy.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
01-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Not trying to get on his good side, just thinking of the movie Big Fish where the kid finds out dad's stories are all real, just made more interesting in the retelling. :)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
01-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Not trying to get on his good side, just thinking of the movie Big Fish where the kid finds out dad's stories are all real, just made more interesting in the retelling. :)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
JDP
Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
My Ebay Items
http://www.stude.com/EBAY/

64 GT hawk
64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

DEEPNHOCK
01-03-2007, 10:12 AM
A great Tim Burton movie, I might add...
Jeff[8D]
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/BigFish.jpg




quote:Originally posted by JDP

Not trying to get on his good side, just thinking of the movie Big Fish where the kid finds out dad's stories are all real, just made more interesting in the retelling. :)


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
01-03-2007, 10:12 AM
A great Tim Burton movie, I might add...
Jeff[8D]
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/BigFish.jpg




quote:Originally posted by JDP

Not trying to get on his good side, just thinking of the movie Big Fish where the kid finds out dad's stories are all real, just made more interesting in the retelling. :)


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

8E45E
01-03-2007, 12:03 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JDP

Guys, let's not to be too hard on the kid who is after all, trying to do something for grand dad. We all may embellish a a good story now now and then, or have a faulty recollection in our old age.

Through no fault of his own, I Think a lot of us have become real skeptics now; especially within the last 5 years over the V-12 Packard story.

Craig.

8E45E
01-03-2007, 12:03 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JDP

Guys, let's not to be too hard on the kid who is after all, trying to do something for grand dad. We all may embellish a a good story now now and then, or have a faulty recollection in our old age.

Through no fault of his own, I Think a lot of us have become real skeptics now; especially within the last 5 years over the V-12 Packard story.

Craig.

CHAMP
01-03-2007, 01:08 PM
Suppose the Lark was a Dealer prepared car and Grandpaw was told it was factory[?] Not that any car dealer would ever tell a customer a lie[?]:D

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

CHAMP
01-03-2007, 01:08 PM
Suppose the Lark was a Dealer prepared car and Grandpaw was told it was factory[?] Not that any car dealer would ever tell a customer a lie[?]:D

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

rockinhawk
01-07-2007, 10:44 AM
Has any more info came to light on the car? I am truly interested in it. I know Studebaker would go to great lengths to fulfill a customers wish. Also the same people who are giving you a hard time, claim my 63 GT should not have A TT emblem on it, but it does and it's going to stay there. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg

rockinhawk
01-07-2007, 10:44 AM
Has any more info came to light on the car? I am truly interested in it. I know Studebaker would go to great lengths to fulfill a customers wish. Also the same people who are giving you a hard time, claim my 63 GT should not have A TT emblem on it, but it does and it's going to stay there. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg

Sonny
01-07-2007, 06:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by rockinhawk

Has any more info came to light on the car? I am truly interested in it. I know Studebaker would go to great lengths to fulfill a customers wish. Also the same people who are giving you a hard time, claim my 63 GT should not have A TT emblem on it, but it does and it's going to stay there. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg


I'm with you Neal! I happen to believe the kid, and I also think that driving him out of here was a REAL chitty deal, totally uncalled for. Skeptics my butt, be skeptical, if you must, AFTER YA GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO PRESENT THE WHOLE FRAPPIN' STORY!!!

Fer cryin' out loud guys, I don't blame the kid if he NEVER comes back, rude and crude usually [b]ISN'T the norm around here, [V] sheesh....... :(

Sonny
http://racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpghttp://RacingStudebakers.com

Sonny
01-07-2007, 06:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by rockinhawk

Has any more info came to light on the car? I am truly interested in it. I know Studebaker would go to great lengths to fulfill a customers wish. Also the same people who are giving you a hard time, claim my 63 GT should not have A TT emblem on it, but it does and it's going to stay there. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg


I'm with you Neal! I happen to believe the kid, and I also think that driving him out of here was a REAL chitty deal, totally uncalled for. Skeptics my butt, be skeptical, if you must, AFTER YA GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO PRESENT THE WHOLE FRAPPIN' STORY!!!

Fer cryin' out loud guys, I don't blame the kid if he NEVER comes back, rude and crude usually [b]ISN'T the norm around here, [V] sheesh....... :(

Sonny
http://racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpghttp://RacingStudebakers.com

mbstude
01-07-2007, 06:12 PM
I sent him a mice little email; along the same lines as your post Sonny. Maybe we can get him back on here to tell us more about that intersting, mysterious Lark. [8D]

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Scotsman%20pickup/cool_man_3.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/

mbstude
01-07-2007, 06:12 PM
I sent him a mice little email; along the same lines as your post Sonny. Maybe we can get him back on here to tell us more about that intersting, mysterious Lark. [8D]

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Scotsman%20pickup/cool_man_3.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/

8E45E
01-07-2007, 06:13 PM
Fer cryin' out loud guys, I don't blame the kid if he NEVER comes back, rude and crude usually the norm around here,

Who says we've driven him out? All we are are waiting for is some tangible evidence now.(e.g. photographs, factory records, magazine/newspaper articles, the car itself, etc.) As I said in my previous post "The ball is in your court". He made a statement; now its time for him or someone else who also remembers the Lark(s) he is describing to back it up. Believe me, we do have SOME patience!!

Craig

Craig.

8E45E
01-07-2007, 06:13 PM
Fer cryin' out loud guys, I don't blame the kid if he NEVER comes back, rude and crude usually the norm around here,

Who says we've driven him out? All we are are waiting for is some tangible evidence now.(e.g. photographs, factory records, magazine/newspaper articles, the car itself, etc.) As I said in my previous post "The ball is in your court". He made a statement; now its time for him or someone else who also remembers the Lark(s) he is describing to back it up. Believe me, we do have SOME patience!!

Craig

Craig.

Guido
01-07-2007, 06:21 PM
Remember, he came to the forum a month ago with his post regarding a car that none of the very knowledgeable people here have ever heard of. I have only asked that he point us to where we can authenticate his claims of its existence. To date that has not occurred. It seems to me if this car was raced we could at least get some information on where so we could check with the track or newspapers in the vicinity. At this point nothing new has surfaced and like everyone I would like additional details, sorry if that is interpreted as "driving" him away.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
01-07-2007, 06:21 PM
Remember, he came to the forum a month ago with his post regarding a car that none of the very knowledgeable people here have ever heard of. I have only asked that he point us to where we can authenticate his claims of its existence. To date that has not occurred. It seems to me if this car was raced we could at least get some information on where so we could check with the track or newspapers in the vicinity. At this point nothing new has surfaced and like everyone I would like additional details, sorry if that is interpreted as "driving" him away.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

BobPalma
01-07-2007, 06:35 PM
:) Well, Craig, Studebaker may have had some stiff booze at the press reception that day: Joe also reported 1959 Hawk Six acceleration as being, "...not drag strip times, but not sluggish transportation, either." [:0]

Geeze, if a 1959 Hawk Six wasn't sluggish transportation in 1959, what was? I remember driving a friend's very nice 1959 Hawk Six automatic 60 miles to an SDC meet in the early 1970s...and worrying that I'd not get there until most of the folks had gone through the banquet line and taken all the pecan pie! [:0][8D] BP

BobPalma
01-07-2007, 06:35 PM
:) Well, Craig, Studebaker may have had some stiff booze at the press reception that day: Joe also reported 1959 Hawk Six acceleration as being, "...not drag strip times, but not sluggish transportation, either." [:0]

Geeze, if a 1959 Hawk Six wasn't sluggish transportation in 1959, what was? I remember driving a friend's very nice 1959 Hawk Six automatic 60 miles to an SDC meet in the early 1970s...and worrying that I'd not get there until most of the folks had gone through the banquet line and taken all the pecan pie! [:0][8D] BP

GTtim
01-07-2007, 06:41 PM
It's a tough choice to decide whether or not to rain on someone's parade. If you are in the same space and can see the look on the person's face it is easier to know if they are really interested in knowing the facts or if they just want to tell their story without having it edited for them. Just the other day, a fellow I know and like was telling me about how someone he knew had a steel bodied Avanti 30 years ago. I let it go, sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

GTtim
01-07-2007, 06:41 PM
It's a tough choice to decide whether or not to rain on someone's parade. If you are in the same space and can see the look on the person's face it is easier to know if they are really interested in knowing the facts or if they just want to tell their story without having it edited for them. Just the other day, a fellow I know and like was telling me about how someone he knew had a steel bodied Avanti 30 years ago. I let it go, sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

BobPalma
01-07-2007, 06:43 PM
:) Probably the biggest "problem" here is the recollection that 50 such cars were made. One-offs can be all over the place, but 50 of anything would require some standardized parts in the parts books... and some mention, somewhere, of the end result(s). I, too, feel a little sorry for the fella and hope he returns to the forum, even if only to report the conquests of what turned out to be Grandpa's 1959 Lark V-8 2-door...which in itself would be rare, since the "F" body wasn't even available with a V-8 until much later in the 1959 model year (some sources say not at all).

Which brings up an interesting item regarding option availability and original equipment. [:0] ;) The other day, I was looking for something else and ran across pages from the December 1958 Science and Mechanics magazine, retained because they contained a road test of the new 1959 Lark. Comments therein were from highly-regarded road tester Joe H. Wherry.

Joe also drove a 1959 Hawk Six while at The Studebaker Proving Ground testing the new Larks. According to Joe's report on the Hawk Six, "Interiors have been dressed up and, we're told, leather can be ordered on V-8 models. Retained is that handsome sports-type instrument panel which will include [u]a tachometer and manifold pressure gauge on the V-8s </u>(we are inclined to bless them for this.)" [:0] [underscoring added]

So there you have it: Any of you guys running around out there in your 1959 Hawk V-8s had better make sure they have both the tachometer and manifold pressure gauge in place [^] and operational, since they were [reportedly] standard equipment on those cars! ;):D BP

BobPalma
01-07-2007, 06:43 PM
:) Probably the biggest "problem" here is the recollection that 50 such cars were made. One-offs can be all over the place, but 50 of anything would require some standardized parts in the parts books... and some mention, somewhere, of the end result(s). I, too, feel a little sorry for the fella and hope he returns to the forum, even if only to report the conquests of what turned out to be Grandpa's 1959 Lark V-8 2-door...which in itself would be rare, since the "F" body wasn't even available with a V-8 until much later in the 1959 model year (some sources say not at all).

Which brings up an interesting item regarding option availability and original equipment. [:0] ;) The other day, I was looking for something else and ran across pages from the December 1958 Science and Mechanics magazine, retained because they contained a road test of the new 1959 Lark. Comments therein were from highly-regarded road tester Joe H. Wherry.

Joe also drove a 1959 Hawk Six while at The Studebaker Proving Ground testing the new Larks. According to Joe's report on the Hawk Six, "Interiors have been dressed up and, we're told, leather can be ordered on V-8 models. Retained is that handsome sports-type instrument panel which will include [u]a tachometer and manifold pressure gauge on the V-8s </u>(we are inclined to bless them for this.)" [:0] [underscoring added]

So there you have it: Any of you guys running around out there in your 1959 Hawk V-8s had better make sure they have both the tachometer and manifold pressure gauge in place [^] and operational, since they were [reportedly] standard equipment on those cars! ;):D BP

Sonny
01-07-2007, 06:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E





Fer cryin' out loud guys, I don't blame the kid if he NEVER comes back, rude and crude usually the norm around here,

Who says we've driven him out? All we are are waiting for is some tangible evidence now.(e.g. photographs, factory records, magazine/newspaper articles, the car itself, etc.) As I said in my previous post "The ball is in your court". He made a statement; now its time for him or someone else who also remembers the Lark(s) he is describing to back it up. Believe me, we do have SOME patience!!

Craig

Craig.

I say he was driven out! I say what was done was friggin' rude and crude! He's a no-nothing kid, the MESSENGER! He came on here trying to put a car together for his grand dad and instead of help all he got was challenges to PROVE what his grand dad said was true! He NEVER got HELP, HE never got the opprotunity to FINISH the REST of the story!

Mebbe what granddad remembers was TRUE, mebbe NOT, but why not let that rest while you help him put a car together for his grand dad? What JP said was EXACTLY right, "let's not to be too hard on the kid who is after all, trying to do something for grand dad".....

Believe me, you need MORE patience......

Sonny
http://racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpghttp://RacingStudebakers.com

Sonny
01-07-2007, 06:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E





Fer cryin' out loud guys, I don't blame the kid if he NEVER comes back, rude and crude usually the norm around here,

Who says we've driven him out? All we are are waiting for is some tangible evidence now.(e.g. photographs, factory records, magazine/newspaper articles, the car itself, etc.) As I said in my previous post "The ball is in your court". He made a statement; now its time for him or someone else who also remembers the Lark(s) he is describing to back it up. Believe me, we do have SOME patience!!

Craig

Craig.

I say he was driven out! I say what was done was friggin' rude and crude! He's a no-nothing kid, the MESSENGER! He came on here trying to put a car together for his grand dad and instead of help all he got was challenges to PROVE what his grand dad said was true! He NEVER got HELP, HE never got the opprotunity to FINISH the REST of the story!

Mebbe what granddad remembers was TRUE, mebbe NOT, but why not let that rest while you help him put a car together for his grand dad? What JP said was EXACTLY right, "let's not to be too hard on the kid who is after all, trying to do something for grand dad".....

Believe me, you need MORE patience......

Sonny
http://racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpghttp://RacingStudebakers.com

Transtar60
01-07-2007, 06:58 PM
Sigh[xx(]

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Transtar60
01-07-2007, 06:58 PM
Sigh[xx(]

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

8E45E
01-07-2007, 07:07 PM
I say he was driven out! I say what was done was friggin' rude and crude!

I count ONE reply as what you describe. The others were to the point and tactful. What Bob just said sums it up.


Remember..when we hear stories that stir up our interest like that, all of us become like provebial kids in a candy store.:D We can't help wanting to know more.

Craig

8E45E
01-07-2007, 07:07 PM
I say he was driven out! I say what was done was friggin' rude and crude!

I count ONE reply as what you describe. The others were to the point and tactful. What Bob just said sums it up.


Remember..when we hear stories that stir up our interest like that, all of us become like provebial kids in a candy store.:D We can't help wanting to know more.

Craig

Sonny
01-07-2007, 07:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by Guido

Remember, he came to the forum a month ago with his post regarding a car that none of the very knowledgeable people here have ever heard of. I have only asked that he point us to where we can authenticate his claims of its existence. To date that has not occurred. It seems to me if this car was raced we could at least get some information on where so we could check with the track or newspapers in the vicinity. At this point nothing new has surfaced and like everyone I would like additional details, sorry if that is interpreted as "driving" him away.

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

I'm just thinkin' that he came here initially asking for help. He's been been in the middle, trying to get details from an old guy, (Like me!), as best he could. Grand dad made the claims, NOT him! Why shoot the messenger?

But in ANY event, I KNOW we could have helped him slap a Packard powered, supercharged Lark together, EVEN IF WHAT HIS GRAND DAD TOLD HIM WAS PURE BS! Remember, he's relating to his grandson, WHAT the hell is the difference if it's the gospel or not? Think about it.....

Sonny
http://racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpghttp://RacingStudebakers.com

Sonny
01-07-2007, 07:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by Guido

Remember, he came to the forum a month ago with his post regarding a car that none of the very knowledgeable people here have ever heard of. I have only asked that he point us to where we can authenticate his claims of its existence. To date that has not occurred. It seems to me if this car was raced we could at least get some information on where so we could check with the track or newspapers in the vicinity. At this point nothing new has surfaced and like everyone I would like additional details, sorry if that is interpreted as "driving" him away.

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

I'm just thinkin' that he came here initially asking for help. He's been been in the middle, trying to get details from an old guy, (Like me!), as best he could. Grand dad made the claims, NOT him! Why shoot the messenger?

But in ANY event, I KNOW we could have helped him slap a Packard powered, supercharged Lark together, EVEN IF WHAT HIS GRAND DAD TOLD HIM WAS PURE BS! Remember, he's relating to his grandson, WHAT the hell is the difference if it's the gospel or not? Think about it.....

Sonny
http://racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpghttp://RacingStudebakers.com

8E45E
01-07-2007, 07:25 PM
Comments therein were from highly-regarded road tester Joe H. Wherry.

Joe also drove a 1959 Hawk Six while at The Studebaker Proving Ground testing the new Larks. According to Joe's report on the Hawk Six, "Interiors have been dressed up and, we're told, leather can be ordered on V-8 models. Retained is that handsome sports-type instrument panel which will include [u]a tachometer and manifold pressure gauge on the V-8s </u>(we are inclined to bless them for this.)" [:0] [underscoring added]

So there you have it: Any of you guys running around out there in your 1959 Hawk V-8s had better make sure they have both the tachometer and manifold pressure gauge in place [^] and operational, since they were [reportedly] standard equipment on those cars! ;):D BP

I wonder if he was going by some pre-production information he has being a member the 'press' at the time. From what I've read, the Hawk line was only kept at dealer insistence, so the sales department could have been all over the place figuring what to offer for equipment right up to its introduction. Remember the well-known '62 GT Hawk interior press photo with ashtrays in the doors?

Craig

8E45E
01-07-2007, 07:25 PM
Comments therein were from highly-regarded road tester Joe H. Wherry.

Joe also drove a 1959 Hawk Six while at The Studebaker Proving Ground testing the new Larks. According to Joe's report on the Hawk Six, "Interiors have been dressed up and, we're told, leather can be ordered on V-8 models. Retained is that handsome sports-type instrument panel which will include [u]a tachometer and manifold pressure gauge on the V-8s </u>(we are inclined to bless them for this.)" [:0] [underscoring added]

So there you have it: Any of you guys running around out there in your 1959 Hawk V-8s had better make sure they have both the tachometer and manifold pressure gauge in place [^] and operational, since they were [reportedly] standard equipment on those cars! ;):D BP

I wonder if he was going by some pre-production information he has being a member the 'press' at the time. From what I've read, the Hawk line was only kept at dealer insistence, so the sales department could have been all over the place figuring what to offer for equipment right up to its introduction. Remember the well-known '62 GT Hawk interior press photo with ashtrays in the doors?

Craig

Guido
01-07-2007, 07:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by Sonny
WHAT the hell is the difference if it's the gospel or not?
This is [u]exactly</u> how "urban legends" get started, someone sees "information" on the internet (or elsewhere) and passes it on as "fact" without ever verifying its accuracy. Personally, I would like to limit the misinformation about South Bend products.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
01-07-2007, 07:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by Sonny
WHAT the hell is the difference if it's the gospel or not?
This is [u]exactly</u> how "urban legends" get started, someone sees "information" on the internet (or elsewhere) and passes it on as "fact" without ever verifying its accuracy. Personally, I would like to limit the misinformation about South Bend products.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Challenger
01-07-2007, 09:07 PM
This thread has demonstrated what I've known for quite awhile: That there is a certain clique on this board that will use any excuse to gang up on Newbys that come along, if they feel like it. These guys post constantly, trashing peoples' cars, giving their opinions loudly about anything and everything--but as tough as they act, they are actually so hypersensitive and need the emotional support of their buddies to back them up if someone challenges them. Absolutely no doubt about it. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;read it again until you get it!

Challenger
01-07-2007, 09:07 PM
This thread has demonstrated what I've known for quite awhile: That there is a certain clique on this board that will use any excuse to gang up on Newbys that come along, if they feel like it. These guys post constantly, trashing peoples' cars, giving their opinions loudly about anything and everything--but as tough as they act, they are actually so hypersensitive and need the emotional support of their buddies to back them up if someone challenges them. Absolutely no doubt about it. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;read it again until you get it!

StudeDave57
01-07-2007, 09:16 PM
That's why I've stayed out of it till now. When he's got more info, I'll gladly read it. I'm not going to try and dis-credit anyone without his proof first. I sure can't wait to see a pic or two of this thing!!!
I've also 'bumped heads' with those who you speak of, and know exactly what you're talking about... ;) [:0] :( [V] :(

StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

StudeDave57
01-07-2007, 09:16 PM
That's why I've stayed out of it till now. When he's got more info, I'll gladly read it. I'm not going to try and dis-credit anyone without his proof first. I sure can't wait to see a pic or two of this thing!!!
I've also 'bumped heads' with those who you speak of, and know exactly what you're talking about... ;) [:0] :( [V] :(

StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

tstclr
01-07-2007, 09:23 PM
I don't know if this fellows story about Granddads Studebaker is true or not. What I do know is that you should never say never. I remember as a teenager in the 80's reading all the "urban legends" about 4 door Hemi cars and COPO Chevelles or Z10 Camaro's. At that time, none had been seen in the mainstream. Since then documented examples have been discovered. You see all sorts of strange Mopars all the time. Why not Studebakers? Maybe not 50, but a one off is in my opinion believable. I remember reading an article about Chrysler in the 60's. If you wanted it, they'd pretty much build it. Green exterior with Orange interior? No problem. Sometimes a phone call from the DSO would be placed to the dealer to make sure the wrong option box wasn't ticked. A more recent example happend when I worked at a Chevy dealer in 2000. A customer wanted a Millenium Yellow Corvette with Torch Red interior. Have you ever seen how bright Millenium Yellow paint is and how bold Torch Red interior is? Well, GM said no at first, but after 4 or 5 other requests, they decided to do a one time build of all 5 in a row. I saw the car when it came in and it was [xx(][xx(][xx(] but in 20 years it will probably fetch big bucks at Barrett Jackson!
Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c351/tstclr/larkavitar.jpg
64 Daytona 4dr Sedan
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c351/tstclr/64daytonaavitar.jpg

tstclr
01-07-2007, 09:23 PM
I don't know if this fellows story about Granddads Studebaker is true or not. What I do know is that you should never say never. I remember as a teenager in the 80's reading all the "urban legends" about 4 door Hemi cars and COPO Chevelles or Z10 Camaro's. At that time, none had been seen in the mainstream. Since then documented examples have been discovered. You see all sorts of strange Mopars all the time. Why not Studebakers? Maybe not 50, but a one off is in my opinion believable. I remember reading an article about Chrysler in the 60's. If you wanted it, they'd pretty much build it. Green exterior with Orange interior? No problem. Sometimes a phone call from the DSO would be placed to the dealer to make sure the wrong option box wasn't ticked. A more recent example happend when I worked at a Chevy dealer in 2000. A customer wanted a Millenium Yellow Corvette with Torch Red interior. Have you ever seen how bright Millenium Yellow paint is and how bold Torch Red interior is? Well, GM said no at first, but after 4 or 5 other requests, they decided to do a one time build of all 5 in a row. I saw the car when it came in and it was [xx(][xx(][xx(] but in 20 years it will probably fetch big bucks at Barrett Jackson!
Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c351/tstclr/larkavitar.jpg
64 Daytona 4dr Sedan
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c351/tstclr/64daytonaavitar.jpg

mbstude
01-07-2007, 09:26 PM
You're right, Todd. My grandad had a '71 Polara 4 door sedan with a 440. A pilot car. [:0][8D]

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Scotsman%20pickup/cool_man_3.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/

mbstude
01-07-2007, 09:26 PM
You're right, Todd. My grandad had a '71 Polara 4 door sedan with a 440. A pilot car. [:0][8D]

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Scotsman%20pickup/cool_man_3.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/

8E45E
01-07-2007, 09:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) Well, Craig, Studebaker may have had some stiff booze at the press reception that day: Joe also reported 1959 Hawk Six acceleration as being, "...not drag strip times, but not sluggish transportation, either." [:0]

And then you wonder why I prefer to read English car mags like Autocar, Auto Express, etc. They're 'tell it like it is'


Geeze, if a 1959 Hawk Six wasn't sluggish transportation in 1959, what was?

A Toyopet Crown.

Craig

I remember driving a friend's very nice 1959 Hawk Six automatic 60 miles to an SDC meet in the early 1970s...and worrying that I'd not get there until most of the folks had gone through the banquet line and taken all the pecan pie!


[:0][8D] BP

8E45E
01-07-2007, 09:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) Well, Craig, Studebaker may have had some stiff booze at the press reception that day: Joe also reported 1959 Hawk Six acceleration as being, "...not drag strip times, but not sluggish transportation, either." [:0]

And then you wonder why I prefer to read English car mags like Autocar, Auto Express, etc. They're 'tell it like it is'


Geeze, if a 1959 Hawk Six wasn't sluggish transportation in 1959, what was?

A Toyopet Crown.

Craig

I remember driving a friend's very nice 1959 Hawk Six automatic 60 miles to an SDC meet in the early 1970s...and worrying that I'd not get there until most of the folks had gone through the banquet line and taken all the pecan pie!


[:0][8D] BP

BCampbell
01-08-2007, 03:24 PM
Well son....I just got off the phone with Grandpa. He's headed to look for the VHS and photos so we can get this posted for you. I think it's great that you are so interested in keeping this alive for him especially since it had to skip a generation before he had someone who had the same fire as he did. It's all he could talk about the two weeks he and mom were here visiting. Although when did the conversations never not center around cars. You and grandpa are so much alike!!!!!

I was fortunate enough to get to grow up and ride in some of those monster cars unlike you. I hope you two succeed in finding one of those cars still out there somewhere. It would be a grand finale to a fine memory. Let me know what I can do to help!!!

BCampbell
01-08-2007, 03:24 PM
Well son....I just got off the phone with Grandpa. He's headed to look for the VHS and photos so we can get this posted for you. I think it's great that you are so interested in keeping this alive for him especially since it had to skip a generation before he had someone who had the same fire as he did. It's all he could talk about the two weeks he and mom were here visiting. Although when did the conversations never not center around cars. You and grandpa are so much alike!!!!!

I was fortunate enough to get to grow up and ride in some of those monster cars unlike you. I hope you two succeed in finding one of those cars still out there somewhere. It would be a grand finale to a fine memory. Let me know what I can do to help!!!

rockinhawk
01-08-2007, 04:39 PM
Matthew refered to my 71 Polara, I got a deal on it when it was two years old. Drove it for 5 yrs and traded it on a ford picup.Found out 20 years later it was one of 50!! it was hard on 727's and grandma kept the rear tires slick. Other than that it was a great ride. Hated to let it go but needed a truck to go into the masonry business.Still in the business but don't drive Fords any more. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg

rockinhawk
01-08-2007, 04:39 PM
Matthew refered to my 71 Polara, I got a deal on it when it was two years old. Drove it for 5 yrs and traded it on a ford picup.Found out 20 years later it was one of 50!! it was hard on 727's and grandma kept the rear tires slick. Other than that it was a great ride. Hated to let it go but needed a truck to go into the masonry business.Still in the business but don't drive Fords any more. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg

8E45E
01-08-2007, 05:53 PM
[quote]Originally posted by rockinhawk

Matthew refered to my 71 Polara, I got a deal on it when it was two years old. Drove it for 5 yrs and traded it on a ford picup.Found out 20 years later it was one of 50!!


There's a plain white '68 Valiant 4 door that regularly appears at car shows here in the summer. It has a 273, single exhaust with a 4 speed on the floor. It's the only four-door four-speed Valiant that was made in Canada for 1968 out of a total of 7 produced in total in that combination.

Craig.

8E45E
01-08-2007, 05:53 PM
[quote]Originally posted by rockinhawk

Matthew refered to my 71 Polara, I got a deal on it when it was two years old. Drove it for 5 yrs and traded it on a ford picup.Found out 20 years later it was one of 50!!


There's a plain white '68 Valiant 4 door that regularly appears at car shows here in the summer. It has a 273, single exhaust with a 4 speed on the floor. It's the only four-door four-speed Valiant that was made in Canada for 1968 out of a total of 7 produced in total in that combination.

Craig.

PackardV8
01-08-2007, 07:40 PM
FWIW, If you want to experience vituperation, flaming, name-calling and feuds galore, just visit a few other auto groups, especially those which attract the younger import crowd. We can always strive to be more civil, but this is a more gentle and tolerant club forum than most. As a generality, Studebaker owners are older than the average car guy and thus, more mellow. Having said that, everyone here has opinions, but some have the experience and the facts to back them. It should not be considered a personal insult or an attack to request documentation of a statement. We all are here to learn and read about Studebakers. Just read and watch and which is which will sort itself out.

Just a note on a side topic which has taken off here, the 4-door 440 V8 Mopars were made by the thousands for the CHP and other state highway patrols. At an auction in Oakland, CA, in 1973, I saw dozens of them for sale, all with heavy duty suspension, trans, alternator, brakes, tires and wheels. Less than a thousand dollars would get you a well-maintained example guaranteed to run 140 MPH.

thnx, jv.



PackardV8

PackardV8
01-08-2007, 07:40 PM
FWIW, If you want to experience vituperation, flaming, name-calling and feuds galore, just visit a few other auto groups, especially those which attract the younger import crowd. We can always strive to be more civil, but this is a more gentle and tolerant club forum than most. As a generality, Studebaker owners are older than the average car guy and thus, more mellow. Having said that, everyone here has opinions, but some have the experience and the facts to back them. It should not be considered a personal insult or an attack to request documentation of a statement. We all are here to learn and read about Studebakers. Just read and watch and which is which will sort itself out.

Just a note on a side topic which has taken off here, the 4-door 440 V8 Mopars were made by the thousands for the CHP and other state highway patrols. At an auction in Oakland, CA, in 1973, I saw dozens of them for sale, all with heavy duty suspension, trans, alternator, brakes, tires and wheels. Less than a thousand dollars would get you a well-maintained example guaranteed to run 140 MPH.

thnx, jv.



PackardV8

rockinhawk
01-08-2007, 08:03 PM
True, but most of them were Plymouth Fury 111. My car was sold in Florida and had a tag under the hood that said SPECIAL ORDER.and another that said PILOT CAR. Most Polaras in 71 were 4 dr ht. Mine did have the police suspension and disc brakes. A friend had a regular Polara 4 dr ht, and there was no comparison.


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg

rockinhawk
01-08-2007, 08:03 PM
True, but most of them were Plymouth Fury 111. My car was sold in Florida and had a tag under the hood that said SPECIAL ORDER.and another that said PILOT CAR. Most Polaras in 71 were 4 dr ht. Mine did have the police suspension and disc brakes. A friend had a regular Polara 4 dr ht, and there was no comparison.


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg

BShaw
01-09-2007, 09:37 AM
As this thread has taken off in any number of directions, there is no need for it to continue. I have therefore locked it. Move on, please.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/Lockdown.gif

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

BShaw
01-09-2007, 09:37 AM
As this thread has taken off in any number of directions, there is no need for it to continue. I have therefore locked it. Move on, please.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/Lockdown.gif

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota