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  • Vapor Lock??

    Its Mardi Gras Season here in Louisiana and tonight my wife's krewe is having their Ball. My daughter got off school early and had a friend over and she was showing him the Hawk and started it and let it run for about 10 minutes at high idle. I got in the car and drove it to to where the the Ball will be. It was noon and traffic was heavy. The temperature gauge showed 180 - 190 degrees F. I figured it was getting hot, but thought I would be through traffic before it overheated. Suddenly it started running like it was out of fuel and ultimately died. It wouldn't start again and I pushed it to a parking lot. I have a clear fuel filter in the line going to the carb from the fuel pump and I saw no fuel in it. It sat there for a couple of hours, till I had a friend go with me to get it and tow it home. He saw there was no fuel in the filter either and having a can of gasoline in the back of his truck, he put about 3 gallons into my tank. I tried starting the car and it started! Thinking I might be out of gas (didn't think I was, the gauge showed full and I had just filled the car up Monday), I quickly drove to the gas station and put gas in it. I could only put about 3 gallons in the tank, so it obviously had fuel in it when it died on the road.

    I have had Studebakers develop vapor lock before, but only after I stopped the engine, not when I'm driving it!! Could this have indeed been vapor lock? Any suggestions for remedies, short of shaking a dead chicken over the car?[)]



    Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker
    Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

  • #2
    Yes, sounds like vapor lock, or maybe a fuel line clog. I assume the gas tank has been cleaned? Since you are in Louisiana, I recommend the chicken gris-gris ceremony first, then an electric fuel pump. Bon chance!

    Comment


    • #3
      Sounds like vapor lock. Also, have you used 10% alcohol fuel. The first tank full is a fuel delivery system cleaner and plugs up filters and sometimes the carb, in my opinion. The lower vapor pressure gas of today seems to easily vapor lock when the temps get into the 80's. I mounted an electric fuel pump near the tank and turn it on when apor lock strikes. This wors fine for me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Check your Turning Wheels there is a good article about it in the latest issue. In addition to what the article says it also helps to reroute the fuel line from the pump to the carburetor. Move the line out away from the block. The stock routing takes the line between the power steering pump and the block, move it out towards the inner fender and then up to the carb. Also, if there is any weakness in your fuel pump, vapor lock will occur more readily. Check the pumps pressure.
        If all that seems too hard you could carry a spray bottle of water to hose down the fuel pump to get things going again. Some people I know keep a cooler of beer with them, when vapor lock strikes they first drink a beer then use the empty bottle to pour cold water from the cooler onto the fuel pump, then away they go!

        Tim K.
        '64 R2 GT Hawk
        Tim K.
        \'64 R2 GT Hawk

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        • #5
          Last summer I had a lot of problem with both my 55 Commander and 62 Hawk vapor locking. I installed electric fuel pumps in the line just ahead of the tank, connected it through a togal switch to the acessory side of the ignition switch. Turn it on to prime the cars when they have been setting for awhile and until the car starts. After it is running I turn the electric pump off and let the mechanical one do the work.

          I have had ocasions when the car would sputter when it was warm. When this happens turning the electric pump back on resolves the problem. No problem so far with the electric pumping through the mechanical or the mechanica sucking through the electric. This may work for you.

          Comment


          • #6
            After regaining my composure from hysterics, after reading the Chicken and beer comments, I have two questions.

            I just finished rebuilding my entire engine but never understood what vapor lock was till now.

            I have these questions, my Champion is 6 volts so I assume I can buy a good fuel pump of that voltage? Also, my concern that once the electric pump is in the line, and turned off, can the mechanical pump overcome the friction or obstruction of the electric if electrically OFF? Finally, with a new fuel pump, rebuilt carberator am I protected from this happening?

            You can see I don't understand the nature of the problem!!

            I am sure I will encounter this some day soon as I plan to drive quite south into hot weather. and will keep my eye on this.

            Thanks Guys,

            Jim

            James Caspi
            1950 Champion Regal Deluxe-2 dr.
            New York, NY.

            Comment


            • #7
              This has been discussed before. Use the search function at the top of the page (search for simple "molecules")and you should get what was said then.
              /H

              Comment


              • #8
                I know the topic of vapor lock has been covered before, but my original question was 'Is this vapor lock?' Apparently it was and a lot of new knowledge was obtained, for which I appreciate.

                It concerns me that some folks claim vapor lock when the outside temperature is in the 80's. That presents a problem for us in Louisiana, because there are very few days that the temperature is in the 80's. That means that the only time I could drive the Hawk is during the dead of winter and even then there are days that are in the High 80's!! Forget the summer months because when the temp is in the 80's it usually means that we are experiencing a cold front of some sorts... or we're in the middle of a hurricane!

                I will reroute the fuel line and replace the rubber hose with a metal line. Right now I have a rubber hose that is lying on the valve cover... probably not a good idea.[:I] Also including an electric fuel pump close to the tank is another thing I need to do to remedy the situation.

                I do like the idea of carrying around cold beer. I guess I will have to make sure that I keep ice in the ice chest now and not just leave the loose beer rolling around to get hot![)] The beer would taste better cold anyway... I guess. It would also be a good place to keep the chicken relatively fresh!




                Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker
                Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think there is a Louisiana exception to the chicken. Maybe like Boudain, Gator, or Nutria. Whenever mine has done it, I have loosened the fuel line at the carb, and got the gas going again. It is beginning to happen so often now with this fuel (it isn't gas any more), that I will try some of the more drastic remedies.

                  In everyone's experience, is the Edelbrock better about this, or not? My carb is so worn out that it is going to be replaced, come what may.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It may help some to understand vapor lock by thinking of the physics of it. I'm no physicist, these are only my best guesses, so anyone can feel to correct me.
                    Most pumps work by having having suction on one side and pressure on the other. The problem occurs when gasoline reaches the boiling temperature. At that point suction tends to lower the temperature at which gas will boil. When boiling occurs vapor is released and vapor will expand and contract with the action of the pump. This when gas stops flowing to the carb. With the gas going to vapor on the suction side of the pump, no pumping can occur. It seems to me the critical thing to control is the temperature of the gas when it is on the suction side of the pump. More air flow, fewer pieces of metal to conduct the heat to the pump should help the situation. Alcohol lowers the boiling point and diesel fuel will raise it. Keeping the fuel moving by recirculating the gas to the tank via a return line will help it keep its cool.
                    Everyone should feel free to question or correct anything I said.

                    Tim K.
                    '64 R2 GT Hawk
                    Tim K.
                    \'64 R2 GT Hawk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'll go along with what Tim said, he's right. That's why the return line, just downstream from the pump is important. When at idle or stopped, the heat from the engine can heat the fuel in the line, just ahead of the pump to the point that it's vapor, and the pump is useless. With a return line, there is always a flow of fuel (except when the motor is off) and it is always cool enough to keep it from vaporizing.

                      [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
                      Tom Bredehoft
                      '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
                      '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
                      (Under Construction 571 hrs.)
                      '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
                      All Indiana built cars

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        O.K. so I'll carry some boudin with the beer, they always go good together, especially boudin rouge!

                        I also like the idea of the return line... but how would you fabricate such a thing. What would the plumbing circuit look like? If my wife or daughter are driving the car, it would be a lot simpler if they didn't have to worry about flipping a switch to start the electric fuel pump, thus the return line sound like there is no worry and nothing has to be "switched on".

                        While writing this I looked at this month's Turning Wheels and saw the article on the subject. Sounds good.





                        Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker
                        Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have been thinking about the return line to the fuel tank. How would you fabricate a "bung" as described in this month's Co-Operator? I know it says to 'solder' it to the tank, but my concern is its durability... soldering to such a metal tank doesn't sound like it would hold very well and welding??... well, I wouldn't want to be around when that's done! Even if you first fill the tank with CO2 gas...


                          Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker
                          Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I plumbed my return line to the lower end of the fill tube. I drilled and tapped a hole in the side, put a compression fitting in it and brazed it in place. Since there is no pressure on the line, there's no problem with leaks.

                            [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
                            Tom Bredehoft
                            '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
                            '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
                            (Under Construction 571 hrs.)
                            '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
                            All Indiana built cars

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have run the electric pumps as auxiliaries for years- first did it when I was pulling a 3800 pound travel trailer with the 259 overdrive Wagonaire. On a long hard pull it could starve for gasoline- electric pump solved that. As far as six-volt pumps- I bought one from my FLAPS several years ago. I think most would have them. I think J.C. Whitney still carries them too. However, next time I need one I think I'll buy from 5th Avenue in Clay Center, KS- SDC guy with all kinds of vintage 6-volt stuff (including alternators).

                              Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
                              Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
                              '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

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