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garyash
11-30-2006, 03:38 PM
A couple of you asked for some detailed pictures of the suspension and driveline under the Porsche-powered '59 Lark which is headed for the Studebaker National Museum. The car will be picked up in the next few days, so I have been trying to get a complete set of photos.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/porschelark_side.jpg
Here's the car from the side showing how the previous owner raised the trunk lid for better cooling.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/rear_suspension1.jpg
Right rear wheel removed to show ~3/4" thick plate to adapt Stude wheels to Porsche/VW bus drums. The flat bar locates the rear wheel for the swing axle system, just like the old VW bugs, and links to the torsion bar suspension. There are a couple of stops to limit travel.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/rear_suspension2.jpg
Looking down on right rear axle and drum. The half-shaft comes from the transaxle, links to the gear reduction box. I think the "underdrive" ratio is 1.39, so top speed is only 55-60 mph.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/engine_mounts.jpg
Just in front of the engine/transaxle assembly, a tube about 4" diameter was welded between the frame rails. I think this houses the torsion bars, but you old VW/Porsche people will have to fill in the blanks here. A steel tube assembly serves as the mount for the engine and transaxle.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/speedo_drive.jpg
A speedometer gear drive was added to the right front wheel, though the cable must have broken off long ago. The speedometer only shows 2375 miles, though this can't be correct. I think the bends were too tight and there was too much wheel travel to let this set-up survive too long.

I did find that there is a parking brake set-up on the rear wheels and it does work. On the other hand, the exhaust-heated boxes for heat in the car aren't connected to anything, so this would not be a car for winter.



[img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/gary_ash_m5_sm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
Dartmouth, Mass.
'48 M5
'65 Wagonaire Commander
'63 Wagonaire Standard
web site at http://www.studegarage.com

Roscomacaw
11-30-2006, 03:55 PM
Thanks Gary!!!;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
11-30-2006, 03:55 PM
Thanks Gary!!!;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Randy_G
11-30-2006, 05:29 PM
Thanks Gary I have enjoyed this very much! Great photos!

Randy_G
1959 Lark (project)
www.automotivehistoryonline.com
http://www.automotivehistoryonline.com/sedan4small.jpg

Randy_G
11-30-2006, 05:29 PM
Thanks Gary I have enjoyed this very much! Great photos!

Randy_G
1959 Lark (project)
www.automotivehistoryonline.com
http://www.automotivehistoryonline.com/sedan4small.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
11-30-2006, 06:09 PM
Thanks for the photos and description, Gary. We are very lucky here on the forum to get a "sneak preview" of this special car. The other 12,000 SDC members will have to wait for it to appear in the pages or TW and/or to see it at the Museum some time in the future. Thanks for sharing [^][8D]

http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

Dick Steinkamp
11-30-2006, 06:09 PM
Thanks for the photos and description, Gary. We are very lucky here on the forum to get a "sneak preview" of this special car. The other 12,000 SDC members will have to wait for it to appear in the pages or TW and/or to see it at the Museum some time in the future. Thanks for sharing [^][8D]

http://static.flickr.com/100/301465853_2dbe07b7c6_m.jpg
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

Guido
11-30-2006, 07:05 PM
Gary,

Thanks for sharing this bit of history. As Dick say, membership has it priviledges.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
11-30-2006, 07:05 PM
Gary,

Thanks for sharing this bit of history. As Dick say, membership has it priviledges.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Roscomacaw
11-30-2006, 08:03 PM
Yeah Gary - thanks for sharing with us. It looks less complicated than I would have guessed. Sure would like to see something like that done using a turbo-charged Corvair engine. I know - I know... not as intriguing as a Porsche motor but I'm thinking AMERICAN. Besides, I happen to have a warm spot of Corvairs, having owned a couple some time ago.[^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
11-30-2006, 08:03 PM
Yeah Gary - thanks for sharing with us. It looks less complicated than I would have guessed. Sure would like to see something like that done using a turbo-charged Corvair engine. I know - I know... not as intriguing as a Porsche motor but I'm thinking AMERICAN. Besides, I happen to have a warm spot of Corvairs, having owned a couple some time ago.[^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

lstude
11-30-2006, 08:25 PM
quote:http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/studpg.htm

Mr. Biggs, You should have been at our last Studebaker Meet. We had a couple of Corvairs show up, not to mention an old Chrysler. Having owned a 73 VW bus and a 73 VW Squareback in the 70s, I think the Lark would have needed a more powerful powerplant, also.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/NovemberStudebakerMeetfrontrow.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/NovemberStudebakerMeet001.jpg

Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

lstude
11-30-2006, 08:25 PM
quote:http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/studpg.htm

Mr. Biggs, You should have been at our last Studebaker Meet. We had a couple of Corvairs show up, not to mention an old Chrysler. Having owned a 73 VW bus and a 73 VW Squareback in the 70s, I think the Lark would have needed a more powerful powerplant, also.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/NovemberStudebakerMeetfrontrow.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/NovemberStudebakerMeet001.jpg

Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

showbizkid
11-30-2006, 10:25 PM
Man, I sure like those little Corvair 4-door hardtops. What a sweet body design.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

showbizkid
11-30-2006, 10:25 PM
Man, I sure like those little Corvair 4-door hardtops. What a sweet body design.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

garyash
12-01-2006, 08:54 AM
I've been trying to guess how much this Porsche Lark weighs. As someone posted earlier, a stock '59 Lark 6 with Flight-o-matic weighed in at 2577 lbs. My quick guess is that pulling the engine, transmission, driveshaft, Dana 27 axle, and rear springs would have removed about 1100 lbs, but I don't know real weights on those pieces. Anyway, the body shell would have been about 1500-1600 lbs. Add back about 500 lbs for the Porsche engine and transmission and we're at 2100 lbs. Not too bad, as a Porsche 356B coupe of that era weighed about the same. However, Curtis-Wright may have added back 200-300 lb of steel to stiffen the frame and body, as there is a 1/2" thick plate behind the back seat. Maybe the museum can get the car weighed.

I wondered why the headliner was all stained dark brown. I touched it and found it was "crunchy" behind the cloth. I think there are many mouse nests and nut shells up there. Ugh! It's bad to let a car sit too long. Otherwise, the car has survived well for 47 years. Reading the early service history on the car, the speedometer cable had broken and been replaced by 1967 at an indicated 1710 miles. The replacement couldn't have lasted long.

Gary Ash

garyash
12-01-2006, 08:54 AM
I've been trying to guess how much this Porsche Lark weighs. As someone posted earlier, a stock '59 Lark 6 with Flight-o-matic weighed in at 2577 lbs. My quick guess is that pulling the engine, transmission, driveshaft, Dana 27 axle, and rear springs would have removed about 1100 lbs, but I don't know real weights on those pieces. Anyway, the body shell would have been about 1500-1600 lbs. Add back about 500 lbs for the Porsche engine and transmission and we're at 2100 lbs. Not too bad, as a Porsche 356B coupe of that era weighed about the same. However, Curtis-Wright may have added back 200-300 lb of steel to stiffen the frame and body, as there is a 1/2" thick plate behind the back seat. Maybe the museum can get the car weighed.

I wondered why the headliner was all stained dark brown. I touched it and found it was "crunchy" behind the cloth. I think there are many mouse nests and nut shells up there. Ugh! It's bad to let a car sit too long. Otherwise, the car has survived well for 47 years. Reading the early service history on the car, the speedometer cable had broken and been replaced by 1967 at an indicated 1710 miles. The replacement couldn't have lasted long.

Gary Ash

DEEPNHOCK
12-01-2006, 09:56 AM
Thanks for the pic's Gary.
I forwarded them on to Ralph Nader...
(so he could fund his retirement, and not have to keep running for President;))
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by garyash

A couple of you asked for some detailed pictures of the suspension and driveline under the Porsche-powered '59 Lark which is headed for the Studebaker National Museum. The car will be picked up in the next few days, so I have been trying to get a complete set of photos.


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
12-01-2006, 09:56 AM
Thanks for the pic's Gary.
I forwarded them on to Ralph Nader...
(so he could fund his retirement, and not have to keep running for President;))
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by garyash

A couple of you asked for some detailed pictures of the suspension and driveline under the Porsche-powered '59 Lark which is headed for the Studebaker National Museum. The car will be picked up in the next few days, so I have been trying to get a complete set of photos.


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

lstude
12-01-2006, 07:34 PM
quote: Thanks for the pic's Gary.
I forwarded them on to Ralph Nader...
(so he could fund his retirement, and not have to keep running for President)
Jeff

I read somewhere that Ralph Nader had owned only one car in his life and that was a Studebaker.

Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

lstude
12-01-2006, 07:34 PM
quote: Thanks for the pic's Gary.
I forwarded them on to Ralph Nader...
(so he could fund his retirement, and not have to keep running for President)
Jeff

I read somewhere that Ralph Nader had owned only one car in his life and that was a Studebaker.

Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

mbstude
12-01-2006, 09:22 PM
Just curious Mr. Ash; is all the documentation there proving that this is THE Curtis-Wright built car?

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

mbstude
12-01-2006, 09:22 PM
Just curious Mr. Ash; is all the documentation there proving that this is THE Curtis-Wright built car?

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

gordr
12-02-2006, 04:15 AM
Gary,

The component called out as the torsion bar in the second photo is actually the trailing arm. It's made of spring steel, and it actually flexes as the wheel goes through its vertical travel. The torsion bars live in that 4" transverse tube. There are two, meeting in the middle in a splined anchor point. Inboard end splines and outboard end splines are made in a different pitch, so that one can get "1/2-spline" increments when adjusting ride height.

Transaxle looks like a (then) standard VW split-case model, but it could be a Porsche part, too. There is no provision for a speedo cable take-off, hence the drive at the front wheel. VW cars and transporters had a bored spindle to provide for this, and the square end of the cable core was anchored in a square hole in the bearing dust cap. I'm guessing here, but I suspect the speedo drive on the Lark has a rubber roller rubbing against the bearing housing on the inside of the brake drum.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

gordr
12-02-2006, 04:15 AM
Gary,

The component called out as the torsion bar in the second photo is actually the trailing arm. It's made of spring steel, and it actually flexes as the wheel goes through its vertical travel. The torsion bars live in that 4" transverse tube. There are two, meeting in the middle in a splined anchor point. Inboard end splines and outboard end splines are made in a different pitch, so that one can get "1/2-spline" increments when adjusting ride height.

Transaxle looks like a (then) standard VW split-case model, but it could be a Porsche part, too. There is no provision for a speedo cable take-off, hence the drive at the front wheel. VW cars and transporters had a bored spindle to provide for this, and the square end of the cable core was anchored in a square hole in the bearing dust cap. I'm guessing here, but I suspect the speedo drive on the Lark has a rubber roller rubbing against the bearing housing on the inside of the brake drum.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

garyash
12-02-2006, 12:21 PM
Gord, thanks for the details of the trailing arm and torsion rods. I never had to take those apart on my old Porsche or '72 VW bus. Does the trailing arm twist as the swing axle goes up and down when the wheel hits a bump? Your guess about the speedo drive in the front wheel is probably correct, but I didn't pull the front drum since it's not my car. A tach would have been a very useful instrument in this car, but there isn't one.

Matthew: It would be interesting if there were more than one of these cars; but, in fact, the original registrations to Curtis-Wright for this car still exist and match the serial number on this car. (see below) The car was first registered Feb. 17, 1959, just 13 days after it was built in South Bend. C-W still had the car - and registered it - three years later. I'm hoping that someday the Stude Museum finds the C-W test reports in the archives from the evaluations of the car with its original Champ 6 and Flight-o-matic and from after the Porsche engine was put in.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/lark_nj_reg_59-62_sm.jpg

These days, if you want an engine in the back, you could build a pretty hot Lark sleeper with some of the turnkey VW flat-4 engines up to 2275 cc that put out 150-200 hp.

Gary Ash

garyash
12-02-2006, 12:21 PM
Gord, thanks for the details of the trailing arm and torsion rods. I never had to take those apart on my old Porsche or '72 VW bus. Does the trailing arm twist as the swing axle goes up and down when the wheel hits a bump? Your guess about the speedo drive in the front wheel is probably correct, but I didn't pull the front drum since it's not my car. A tach would have been a very useful instrument in this car, but there isn't one.

Matthew: It would be interesting if there were more than one of these cars; but, in fact, the original registrations to Curtis-Wright for this car still exist and match the serial number on this car. (see below) The car was first registered Feb. 17, 1959, just 13 days after it was built in South Bend. C-W still had the car - and registered it - three years later. I'm hoping that someday the Stude Museum finds the C-W test reports in the archives from the evaluations of the car with its original Champ 6 and Flight-o-matic and from after the Porsche engine was put in.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/lark_nj_reg_59-62_sm.jpg

These days, if you want an engine in the back, you could build a pretty hot Lark sleeper with some of the turnkey VW flat-4 engines up to 2275 cc that put out 150-200 hp.

Gary Ash

Roscomacaw
12-02-2006, 01:31 PM
Interesting serial number! It's not a Studebaker serial number. They started out 59S or 59V. It doesn't jibe with any engine serial number either! Maybe, Gary, you could have a look-see and discren if this thing has a unique serial# plate or is it maybe serialized by the engine's number?

OH! What (assuming there is one) does the body tag say?????[:p]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
12-02-2006, 01:31 PM
Interesting serial number! It's not a Studebaker serial number. They started out 59S or 59V. It doesn't jibe with any engine serial number either! Maybe, Gary, you could have a look-see and discren if this thing has a unique serial# plate or is it maybe serialized by the engine's number?

OH! What (assuming there is one) does the body tag say?????[:p]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

garyash
12-02-2006, 09:01 PM
StudeBob: It's just the normal DMV mentality. The serial number on the door tag is 59S-36429. The NJ DMV people just left off the 59S part on the paperwork, doesn't even look like there was space for more than about 5 digits on the registration, which was part of an old-style IBM punch card. When the car came off the line in South Bend, it was just a "plain vanilla" Lark. There doesn't seem to be anything special that was done at Studebaker to make the car different from normal production. All of the changes were done at C-W.

Gary Ash

garyash
12-02-2006, 09:01 PM
StudeBob: It's just the normal DMV mentality. The serial number on the door tag is 59S-36429. The NJ DMV people just left off the 59S part on the paperwork, doesn't even look like there was space for more than about 5 digits on the registration, which was part of an old-style IBM punch card. When the car came off the line in South Bend, it was just a "plain vanilla" Lark. There doesn't seem to be anything special that was done at Studebaker to make the car different from normal production. All of the changes were done at C-W.

Gary Ash

gordr
12-03-2006, 01:06 AM
quote:Originally posted by garyash

Gord, thanks for the details of the trailing arm and torsion rods. I never had to take those apart on my old Porsche or '72 VW bus. Does the trailing arm twist as the swing axle goes up and down when the wheel hits a bump? Your guess about the speedo drive in the front wheel is probably correct, but I didn't pull the front drum since it's not my car. A tach would have been a very useful instrument in this car, but there isn't one.

Matthew: It would be interesting if there were more than one of these cars; but, in fact, the original registrations to Curtis-Wright for this car still exist and match the serial number on this car. (see below) The car was first registered Feb. 17, 1959, just 13 days after it was built in South Bend. C-W still had the car - and registered it - three years later. I'm hoping that someday the Stude Museum finds the C-W test reports in the archives from the evaluations of the car with its original Champ 6 and Flight-o-matic and from after the Porsche engine was put in.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/lark_nj_reg_59-62_sm.jpg

These days, if you want an engine in the back, you could build a pretty hot Lark sleeper with some of the turnkey VW flat-4 engines up to 2275 cc that put out 150-200 hp.

Gary Ash


Gary, the trailing arm HAS to twist, albeit only a little. As the rear wheel and swing axle moves over a bump, any point on the axle describes an arc in a vertical plane transverse to the car's center line. The center of that arc is within an inch or so of the exact center of the differential spider gears.

The end of the trailing arm, were it not constrained by the axle tube, would move in an arc parallel to the center line of the car as the torsion bar was twisted.

The effective length of the rear axle tubes is fixed; no sliding joint. They attach to the side of transaxle housing with a ball and socket arrangement. Geometry tells us that two arcs, each being in a plane normal to the other, can either be tangent to one another at a single point, or else intersect one another at two points, but in either case, the trailing arm will have to both twist and bend laterally to be able to follow the motion of the the axle tube (and hence the wheel). I suppose the springiness of the trailing arm factors into the spring rate of the torsion bar, too.

The rear torsion bars are round section steel forgings, and look like a piece of heavy shafting, with the splined ends being a larger diameter. Front torsion bars, at least on older beetles, are laminated square section units.

It's been a long time since I worked on any of the air-cooled VW cars.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

gordr
12-03-2006, 01:06 AM
quote:Originally posted by garyash

Gord, thanks for the details of the trailing arm and torsion rods. I never had to take those apart on my old Porsche or '72 VW bus. Does the trailing arm twist as the swing axle goes up and down when the wheel hits a bump? Your guess about the speedo drive in the front wheel is probably correct, but I didn't pull the front drum since it's not my car. A tach would have been a very useful instrument in this car, but there isn't one.

Matthew: It would be interesting if there were more than one of these cars; but, in fact, the original registrations to Curtis-Wright for this car still exist and match the serial number on this car. (see below) The car was first registered Feb. 17, 1959, just 13 days after it was built in South Bend. C-W still had the car - and registered it - three years later. I'm hoping that someday the Stude Museum finds the C-W test reports in the archives from the evaluations of the car with its original Champ 6 and Flight-o-matic and from after the Porsche engine was put in.

http://www.studegarage.com/images/porschelark/lark_nj_reg_59-62_sm.jpg

These days, if you want an engine in the back, you could build a pretty hot Lark sleeper with some of the turnkey VW flat-4 engines up to 2275 cc that put out 150-200 hp.

Gary Ash


Gary, the trailing arm HAS to twist, albeit only a little. As the rear wheel and swing axle moves over a bump, any point on the axle describes an arc in a vertical plane transverse to the car's center line. The center of that arc is within an inch or so of the exact center of the differential spider gears.

The end of the trailing arm, were it not constrained by the axle tube, would move in an arc parallel to the center line of the car as the torsion bar was twisted.

The effective length of the rear axle tubes is fixed; no sliding joint. They attach to the side of transaxle housing with a ball and socket arrangement. Geometry tells us that two arcs, each being in a plane normal to the other, can either be tangent to one another at a single point, or else intersect one another at two points, but in either case, the trailing arm will have to both twist and bend laterally to be able to follow the motion of the the axle tube (and hence the wheel). I suppose the springiness of the trailing arm factors into the spring rate of the torsion bar, too.

The rear torsion bars are round section steel forgings, and look like a piece of heavy shafting, with the splined ends being a larger diameter. Front torsion bars, at least on older beetles, are laminated square section units.

It's been a long time since I worked on any of the air-cooled VW cars.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Guido
12-03-2006, 05:28 AM
I love when the techie/toolie/scientist guys talk to each other! [:p]

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
12-03-2006, 05:28 AM
I love when the techie/toolie/scientist guys talk to each other! [:p]

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

mbstude
12-03-2006, 07:18 AM
gordr; you sound like my geometry teacher! :D

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

mbstude
12-03-2006, 07:18 AM
gordr; you sound like my geometry teacher! :D

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar_river.jpg

http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

garyash
12-03-2006, 09:49 AM
Gord, thanks for the explanation. It had never occurred to me how much flexing and twisting has to take place in the trailing arms. I'd love to see a video of the parts in motion. However, I am getting suspicious that this conversion must have included a bunch of parts from a VW Microbus or Transporter. I'd guess that the trailing arms, torsion rods, housing for the torsion rods, and gear reduction units all came from a Microbus, if only to accommodate the greater weight of the Lark and set ride height and spring rate. If the gear reduction boxes aren't used, the axle shafts won't line up with the wheel centers, so something has to be moved. Maybe the museum can figure it out. It needs a Porsche/VW expert to look it over and identify what components came from what car.

Gary Ash

garyash
12-03-2006, 09:49 AM
Gord, thanks for the explanation. It had never occurred to me how much flexing and twisting has to take place in the trailing arms. I'd love to see a video of the parts in motion. However, I am getting suspicious that this conversion must have included a bunch of parts from a VW Microbus or Transporter. I'd guess that the trailing arms, torsion rods, housing for the torsion rods, and gear reduction units all came from a Microbus, if only to accommodate the greater weight of the Lark and set ride height and spring rate. If the gear reduction boxes aren't used, the axle shafts won't line up with the wheel centers, so something has to be moved. Maybe the museum can figure it out. It needs a Porsche/VW expert to look it over and identify what components came from what car.

Gary Ash

skyway
12-05-2006, 12:55 PM
Tho I'm not sure why they didn't just move the engine even further rearward, methinks maybe those gear reducers on the rear axle were being used to make the axles to hit the wheel wells at the right spot.

Remember, in addition to limiting speed, on VW transporters the reducers were pointed straight down and so also raised the body hight.

skyway
12-05-2006, 12:55 PM
Tho I'm not sure why they didn't just move the engine even further rearward, methinks maybe those gear reducers on the rear axle were being used to make the axles to hit the wheel wells at the right spot.

Remember, in addition to limiting speed, on VW transporters the reducers were pointed straight down and so also raised the body hight.

8E45E
12-05-2006, 01:41 PM
[quote]Originally posted by garyash

A couple of you asked for some detailed pictures of the suspension and driveline under the Porsche-powered '59 Lark which is headed for the Studebaker National Museum. The car will be picked up in the next few days, so I have been trying to get a complete set of photos.


Thanks for sharing these photos. This air-cooled Lark must have been 'Step #1' in Studebaker's aborted Flat-Four project, given the date, and using a powerplant from another car manufacturer to do the primary feasability study. Perhaps this experiment could have been the deciding reason the engineers decided to devote their time and energy on a water-cooled engine instead of an air cooled one. I sure hope more 'Flat-Four' artifacts surface besides this Lark and the prototype water cooled flat four engine that is already in the museum. If anymore cars (such as the 100"wb sub-Lark), then a 'time-line' row of the rise and fall of the flat-four project would be an interesting asset to what is already in the museum.

Craig.

8E45E
12-05-2006, 01:41 PM
[quote]Originally posted by garyash

A couple of you asked for some detailed pictures of the suspension and driveline under the Porsche-powered '59 Lark which is headed for the Studebaker National Museum. The car will be picked up in the next few days, so I have been trying to get a complete set of photos.


Thanks for sharing these photos. This air-cooled Lark must have been 'Step #1' in Studebaker's aborted Flat-Four project, given the date, and using a powerplant from another car manufacturer to do the primary feasability study. Perhaps this experiment could have been the deciding reason the engineers decided to devote their time and energy on a water-cooled engine instead of an air cooled one. I sure hope more 'Flat-Four' artifacts surface besides this Lark and the prototype water cooled flat four engine that is already in the museum. If anymore cars (such as the 100"wb sub-Lark), then a 'time-line' row of the rise and fall of the flat-four project would be an interesting asset to what is already in the museum.

Craig.

Daan
12-06-2006, 07:30 AM
A friend of mine (aircooled Porsche nut) restored his 356 a few years ago. He was telling me that a large % of the parts were from Transporters/busses etc and were the exact same parts, minus the "Porsche" cast into them. Short answer being same part, less $. I don't know if Porsche was saving $ or re-using simnilar parts or what, but there seems to be lots of part interchangability between VW vehicles. Really short answer: "I don't have the exact info you want, but can't stop flapping my gums..."

http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i44/DansStudes/

Daan
12-06-2006, 07:30 AM
A friend of mine (aircooled Porsche nut) restored his 356 a few years ago. He was telling me that a large % of the parts were from Transporters/busses etc and were the exact same parts, minus the "Porsche" cast into them. Short answer being same part, less $. I don't know if Porsche was saving $ or re-using simnilar parts or what, but there seems to be lots of part interchangability between VW vehicles. Really short answer: "I don't have the exact info you want, but can't stop flapping my gums..."

http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i44/DansStudes/