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6 volts to 12 volts. It cant be that easy?

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  • 6 volts to 12 volts. It cant be that easy?

    Hey guys, I just got some information from Dave Carter. It cant be that easy. Look at this:



    Tell me what you think.

  • #2
    Yes, it really is that easy. I'm converting my 51 Commander, the tough parts are the windshield wiper motor and the heater and defroster motors. The wiper motor is only hard because it is a ***** to get to - a newer 12 volt motor is a bolt in if you are young and spry (I'm not). Get a runtz from 5th avenue auto for each gauge. I like the Honda alternator and the 60's Mopar voltage regulator, but there are others that work also. The starter circuit works by taking the starter to ground - I needed to replace the starter switch, as the original switch won't let you reverse it. No real need to do it, unless you want to run modern accessories. I did it so I could install air conditioning.

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    • #3
      Whacker, Where are you located? I have a special interest in what you are doing. I am converting 6 volts to 12 volts on my 1951 Bus. Coupe. What I going to do is the following: I ordered a new wiring harness from Studebaker West. They modified it so that it will use a 3 wire Alternator. I ordered an alternator that has it post at 3pm. You need to install a fuseable link from the alternator to the ammeter.
      ammeter does not car if is 6 or 12 volt. I will step down the light on the dash and step down the ascending gas unit using this plan. The heater and radio will also be stepped down. The rest will run on 12 volts. Of course, I am putting a rebuilt full flow 259 motor. I do have information on stepping down the heater. With the changes that I will make, I can not use Halogen lamps. What else have I forgotten. Oh, Wiper motor can be changed using 12 volt motor from a 1960 vintage car.

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      • #4
        Roy, I am in Iowa. Right now it is 5 degrees in my unheated garage, so I am not getting much done. I am using the Honda alternator, which is a three wire setup, however the Toyota one is also very popular. There are others. Look up alternator conversions on Bob Johnstone's page to get the details. Your setup should be pretty easy, just remember to swap out the starter switch. Run a 12volt wire to one side of the switch, and run the other lead from the switch to the solenoid. I used a Jeep CJ2 starter switch, and put a 3/8 inch spacer under it to put the button in the right location under the clutch pedal. I used the 60's Mopar coil resistor with my six volt coil (needs to have the leads reversed), but you can also just use a 12 volt internally regulated coil. If you can find 1956 heater and defroster, they are supposed to be bolt in 12 volt replacements, but I haven't found any.

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        • #5
          Whacker, Lets keep in touch.

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          • #6
            I went to Radio Shack this morning with the list of items needed. they had three of them, one tantalum capacitor and two 470 ohm resistors. Suggested looking on line for the rest.

            [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
            Tom Bredehoft
            '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
            '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
            (Under Construction 571 hrs.)
            '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
            All Indiana built cars

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            • #7
              Hey Tom, for the ELECTRONICALLY challenged, what are those and what purpose do they serve?

              I assume you were trying to build a Volt-a-Drop for the gauges? I get that the 470 OHM Resistors will reduce voltage, but what the *&%% is a tantalum capacitor and it's use? [?]
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner
              SDC Member Since 1967

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              • #8
                Rich, I got it off an on-line source. I have no idea what the things do. The information comes with photos and schematics, I can build it, hope it works. Maybe it's something like a flux capacitor, I don't know. From my working days, I can talk about cutting feeds and speeds in differing alloys, but when it comes to moving electrons I'm a dunce. The link above says I can expect to get 6 amps out of the thing, up to 10 amps for short bursts with a good heat sink. For under $10, I can use my clock and my Anti-creep valve.

                I'm having troubles finding components, sources want to sell quantities, not ones and twos, or parts just can't be found with Google.

                [edit] additional info.
                [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
                Tom Bredehoft
                '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
                '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
                (Under Construction 571 hrs.)
                '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
                All Indiana built cars

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                • #9
                  Get ahold of 5th Ave auto in Turning Wheels. Randy Rundle makes a device called a "Runtz" that will step the current down for 1 gauge at a time. I needed two of them, one for the fuel gauge and one for the temp gauge. You also need to reverse the wires going to the ammeter, otherwise it will be correct but it will read backwards. If you want to spend your time building the stepdown device, you can buy the parts on-line from Radio Shack, but Randy's solution is so much easier. You can use reverse wires and step down resisters for the heater, defroster, and the wiper motor, they are not as picky about their voltage as the instruments are. Look on N8's website for a list of light bulb interchanges and the 12 volt turn signal flasher.

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                  • #10
                    Tom, checker with Mouser Electronics for the components you need. I believe they sell single units. They are on line.

                    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                    • #11
                      Tom B, Let me know if you build one of these units. Dave Carter sent me a picture of what his looked like. Also, Whacker can you post the contact information for 5th Ave auto. It sound pretty good. Whacker, Why are you using a drop on the temp. gauge.

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                      • #12
                        Here is where you contact Randy Rundle:



                        I use a drop on the temp gauge because otherwise it will read exactly double what it really is.

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                        • #13
                          I took a look at the article in the link.

                          The circuit shown IS simple. Not very good performance I suspect, however. I suppose it works OK for many people.

                          One problem with it is a pretty high "dropout" voltage. What this means is if your battery voltage is less than about 10V, it won't work very well. The output will droop below the set point. The other problem is there is no reverse polarity protection or short circuit protection. Do not reverse the battery and ground wires going into it! Will likely fry that 7808. With the external transistor on the output for the current boost, I suspect the overcurrent detect on the 7808 won't work well or at all so if there is a short to ground on the output, things will just overheat until failure. I'd suggest a fuse on the input. Maybe 10A or so. It will need a big heatsink since this is a linear regulator. The power is directly proportial to the current you draw. For rough numbers on the wattage, assume its 7 X I where I is in amps. So for 1A, 7W and 5A is 35W. The author mentions a light bulb analogy for the heat and its a good one.

                          I doubt you will be able to find that 2N3881 transistor easily. That is a OLD part, no longer made by the major mfgs. The only data I could find on it was from the sort of "grey" market. In the photo in the article notice the number "7739" ? That is the date code that particular part was made; 39th week of 1977. Wonder if the author had a big stash of them. A similar part that IS available is a 2N3055. Those are still being made by several major mfgs. In this application that part is not real critical.

                          Sorry if I sound like a wet blanket on this circuit. You can build it and it will work, just be careful with the issues I mentioned.

                          I am suprised nobody seems to make a good high current voltage drop unit for this sort of application. I know I looked myself at one time. Using modern parts a really robust unit can be made. Maybe the demand is too low or the price is too high.

                          Jeff in ND

                          '53 Champion Hardtop

                          Jeff in ND

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                          • #14
                            Whacker, I have looked and read the information from 5th Ave. It states that I really can not step down the 6 volt radio. They state, I would need to convert the guts and make it a 12 volts. I already have a NOS Radio for my 51. Are there any way I could use it. Also, who converts these radio's? Whacker, Can you post pictures and share what you are or have done on your 1951 stude?

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                            • #15
                              Well, Roy, I don't have a radio. I do have one in stock, but it doesn't work and isn't installed. I think you'll have to ask elsewhere about that, I've heard there are several places that do the conversion. I intend to install a satellite radio this spring, but I haven't bought one yet. I could post pictures, but it is -14 right now and no relief in sight. High today was -5, and this is supposed to last at least a week. I am a snow weenie, so I will do it when it warms up some.

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