PDA

View Full Version : okayyy.The Champ brakes are different, how much?



studeclunker
11-30-2006, 03:36 PM
Well, getting a look at this truck's brakes shows me that a Champ's brakes are considerably different than those on my Larks. Actually, they seem smaller, if that makes sense. Also, I can't seem to locate that little slot through which one can back off the brake shoes. I'd like to check the condition of the shoes. I can't get the drums off though.

So, this begs a few questions of the experts;

first, how do I back off the shoes?

Second, can the drums and backing plates from a Lark be installed on this truck? I have a wagon with the finned brakes all round. They're in good shape. Can I switch?

Thanks in advance...

P.S. I don't have the manual to this truck presently. So I'm kind of in the dark, chassis wise. Currently, there just isn't enough in the coffers for one either. So, if someone has it on disk and is willing to forward the appropriate pages....

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpghttp://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/red54wagon-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

Roscomacaw
11-30-2006, 04:45 PM
They ARE different. In fact, they pretty much date back to the 40s![:0] Stude PU truck brakes were pretty much the same from the 40s thru '62. With the 8E series, they went to "car brakes" in the sense that they used the same hydraulics and geometry, but everything else was different. Self-energizing they called the car setup - as opposed to what the 62 & earlier trucks had. There's no slot to back the shoes off thru because these shoes are adjusted by the two cams towards the top of the backing plates. You loosen the locknut on the camshaft and then turn the cam so that it's lobe pushes the top of the shoe out more to take up for wear. The cams won't even turn 360 or even half that, so don't expect to have to crank and crank them like the car's brake adjusters![:I]

I seems I've heard of folks MAKING the car brakes transfer over to a truck - but not without drilling the backing plates and maybe changing wheel bearings. Of course, if you get that far, remember that since your Lark's lug pattern is different from the truck's, you'll have to use Lark/Hawk (or some Brand X wheels with the same lug pattern) to match up to the drums.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

studeclunker
12-01-2006, 12:08 AM
Well, that explains why the 63&4 Champs I've seen have wheelcovers instead of the usual hubcaps, or baby moons. I don't understand what you're talking about, Mr. Biggs. The cams you're talking about, are they the two octagonal posts that stick out of the backing plates? If so, which way do I turn them? I'd like to get a look at the inside of these brakes.

Well, if replacing the brakes is that much of a project, I'll save it for another day. Still, if the brakes are that dated, I probably will replace them. After all, the purpose of a truck is to work. And adequate brakes are essential to handling a load.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpghttp://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/red54wagon-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

Transtar60
12-01-2006, 09:50 AM
The 8E 1/2 ton Champs have 11" brakes on all 4 corners.
The 8E 5 and 7 use shoe and lining set 1552122 which is same as car shoes for 61V cars and 62V cars. Like others have said the adjusters are similiar to car The wheel cylinders are the same 8E front(535583)as fronts for all 59-64 cars and rears are 535586 same as car rear for 62-64.
Things to keep in mind. The 8E 1/2 ton Champ basically has V8 car FRONT brakes at all corners. The backing plates are specific for 8E 1/2 tons.
Many parts from a car may work. But just look through the car parts book and truck parts book for 7E and 8E to see all the variations.

The easiest fix for you (and cheapest in the long run) is to find a 8E champ parts truck and rob it of its brake parts.

PS. Wheel covers and hubcaps have nothing to do with the brakes.



3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Roscomacaw
12-01-2006, 12:40 PM
Charlie's right about the changes to the late Champ's brakes - however, FINDING a 63-64 Champ to be the "donor" won't be as easy as you might think. The late Champs are popular for their changes in brakes AND steering geometry - which was also a change for the better. Further, some 43 years after the last of them were built, what ones that have been rendered parts hacks have already been plundered for their superior brakes.

Clunk, no difference can be assumed by whatever hub caps you've seen on Champs. While the lug pattern's different from a car's, the wheels are still 15" diameter so a 15" car wheelcover will fit a truck wheel.;) There WOULD be a difference between the "bottlecap" style of hub cap as the bottlecaps were different diameter between cars and trucks.

Which way do the cams turn? Either way. In fact, since a picture's worth a 1000 wards:

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/1/Champadjuster.jpg

Looking at the backing plate's backside:(See above photo)
In a perfect world, that big nut would loosen and allow you to turn the cam shaft with a suitably adjusted cresent wrench (or pliers as has obviously been done with this bruised example!). Count on that big nut to be reluctant to turn on the shaft's rusty threads. But the idea is to loosen the nut, adjust the cam until it actuates the shoes to where they've got proper orientation with the drum surface and then (while holding the cam so it doesn't move, tighten the big lock nut to hold the adjustment where you set it.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/1/Champlobe.jpg

LOOKING INSIDE:(See above phot)
Note the eccentric lobe of the cam. ("Eccentric" - off center, like me.)[:p] As you can see here, you could get away with turning the adjust either way to achieve shoe adjustment nirvana. On earlier car versions of this sorta brake setup, the cam can only be turned one way, but that has nothing to do with this setup. I only mention it so that if someone with a pre-54 car is hoping to learn from this, they won't screw up.[V]

Let me add that while the later Champ brakes are an improvment, these - properly maintained - are gonna be adequate if you drive the truck right and DON'T use overdrive in hilly areas. At least not with a load on board.[}:)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
12-01-2006, 03:30 PM
I didn't know that about the socket. Would be neat to have I suppose. Of course, after years of being mangled by pliers and cresent wrenches, I have to wonder if the sockets would even fit any more.[V][8][xx(]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

studeclunker
12-01-2006, 05:08 PM
Mr. Biggs, you are a gentleman and a scholar! Thank you!

No, Mine aren't chewed up. They do move quite easily. I'll see if they will back off. No fear on the overdrive issue, the truck doesn't have it. Just a three speed manual.

Thanks again fellas!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpghttp://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/red54wagon-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

studeclunker
12-03-2006, 12:26 AM
Worked like a charm, Mr. Biggs!:D Looks like the previous owner did a brake job on this baby before parking it under the ole oak tree (seriously, the bed was half full, up to the top of the wheel wells with oak leaves). So, now I have a really nice load of mulch and a great truck.

All I have to do is find out why the brakes won't hold pressure. This one won't bleed like the others, so I have to use the hose and container instead of my vacumn pump (don't even say it). I've done both front and the pedal is better. Not great, just better.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpghttp://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/red54wagon-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith