knocking 59 flattie

[63larkcustom]

Ok, my little rescue lark did what all good Studebakers will do, I put a battery in, changed the fuel filter, cleaned the carb, put some fuel down the car and she fired right off.. Settled into a nice smooth idle. There is a knocking noise though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a rod bearing is going bad, you pull the plug wire and the offending rod(s) should quiet down a bit. There was no change in the knock. The knocking noise is coming from the front of the engine. Could this be the fiber timing gear? Its making a steady knock and when you accelerate the engine it gets much louder. Any thoughts before I start tearing in?
Thanks,
Bob
(ok Dave, I got it going)

[sbca96]

I have heard the spark plug wire trick too, though when we tried it on
a late model Ford "MOD" 4.6L V8, the knock got WORSE. Try removing
the belts and starting it back up. See if the noise goes away. There
is a chance its the water pump. Just dont run it LONG!

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

[Chucks Stude]

There is also a wrist pin knock that can be intrusive. Replacing the piston is the only way that I know how to fix it. Others may have other ideas, also.

[BobPalma]

If it is from the front of the engine and if removing one spark plug wire at a time results in no change whatsoever, it is a fiber timing gear "going out" on a six. BP

[jclary]

Just a quick suggestion. I once had a noisy fuel pump. I was stumped by it until playing around with one of those mechanics stethoscopes. You might also want to check the oil pressure with a gauge. Years ago I brought home a lark V8 that ran OK. I put a gauge on it and found that it only had 12psi oil pressure warm. Like the idiot I can sometimes be, I ignored it and "only" shredded the timing gear. The rebuild was very educational. Have fun with your new toy!
[img][/img]

John Clary
Greer, SC
SDC member since 1975

[Carl Purdy]

I have one here with a similar problem. But when you give it the gas the knock goes away.


7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2
As soon as you find a product you like they will stop making it.

[Ron Dame]

I had that happen with mine, and it was the fiber timing gear. I don't know how to verify that without pulling the timing cover, but I bet it would make the ignition timing bounce around...then again a worn dizzy will as well, and most are. You might drain the oil and see if there are fiber chunks in the pan or oil, but the junk may not have moved that far down in the pan.

Here's an idea that might work, might not: Take the distributor cap off, put a wrench on the crank bolt and rock the crank back and forth. I'm guessing if it is the gear, there will be some slop between the movement of the crank and the movement of the rotor....but that may also happen with a worn distributor.

Another idea (rambling, I know) if you can get your hands on a small borescope, you could pull the pressure releif valve (which probably needs cleaning anyway) and have a peek at the gear as you rotate the engine. The pressure relief valve has a small hole that supplies oil to the gear, so it's right where you need to look. Of course, if the valve is clogged, there's a real good chance that the gear has been oil starved and gone bad.

Best of luck!

quote:Originally posted by 63larkcustom

Ok, my little rescue lark did what all good Studebakers will do, I put a battery in, changed the fuel filter, cleaned the carb, put some fuel down the car and she fired right off.. Settled into a nice smooth idle. There is a knocking noise though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a rod bearing is going bad, you pull the plug wire and the offending rod(s) should quiet down a bit. There was no change in the knock. The knocking noise is coming from the front of the engine. Could this be the fiber timing gear? Its making a steady knock and when you accelerate the engine it gets much louder. Any thoughts before I start tearing in?
Thanks,
Bob
(ok Dave, I got it going)

Ron Dame
'63 Champ

[sbca96]

quote:Originally posted by jclary

I was stumped by it until playing around with one of those mechanics stethoscopes.

You can also try the poor mans stethoscope, take a wood stick (a push
broom handle works nicely) put one end to the area you want to focus
on, and cup your hand on the opposite end. You will be amazed on how
well this works. Be careful when moving the stick around as to avoid
hitting anything spinning.

Tom

[63larkcustom]

I have a new water pump and fuel pump that were spares. I going to order a fiber gear/gaskets and pressure reiief valve and do all of these at once. I usually like to do the pumps for peace of mind anyway. I think I'm gonna start there and if i need to go deeper, then will do so. These are all parts that would need to be replaced anyway. Are any special tools needed to do the fiber gear?

[63larkcustom]

Oh yeah, the oil pressure cold is 60 and once warm drops to 30 at idle. Based on the pressure, I think the above fixes should take care of it.

[jclary]

[63larkcustom]

I found part of the problem last night. The old water pump didnt look right, it was much shorter from the impeller to the fan pulley. it had a spacer between it and the fan pulley. The new pump didnt require that. The impellor on the old one was all chewed up. I would imagine that was a good portion of the noise. I"ve not seen that before. Were there two styles of pumps?

[American Lead]

my 55 olds had a washer inside the piston from the air clener that made a terrible racket

You can't Spell Studebaker without STUD!

[63larkcustom]

Ok, new pump is in and got it started.. the knock is still there. I got out the trusty broom handle and started pokin and listening. The engine was quiet... The fuel pump was knocking a little, but the timing cover sounded like morse code. I'd say I have my answer now. How hard is the timing gear replacement procedure? Do both gears need to be replaced at the same time or just the fiber gear? As always, thanks in advance.
Bob

[Ron Dame]

Just the fiber gear. It's easier if you remove the grill and radiator, then the fan then the harmonic balancer, the cover then the gear.

Drain the oil, flush as much of the old gear as you can out.

The shop manual speaks of using a tool to re-install the balancer, but just heat it up (take off the rubber pads) to about 200F, and it'll slip right back on.

quote:Originally posted by 63larkcustom

Ok, new pump is in and got it started.. the knock is still there. I got out the trusty broom handle and started pokin and listening. The engine was quiet... The fuel pump was knocking a little, but the timing cover sounded like morse code. I'd say I have my answer now. How hard is the timing gear replacement procedure? Do both gears need to be replaced at the same time or just the fiber gear? As always, thanks in advance.
Bob

Ron Dame
'63 Champ