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Dick Steinkamp
01-06-2009, 10:28 PM
George introduced us to this special car on this thread...

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24815

Here's some pictures and a short description he sent me...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/clip_image001.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/clip_image002.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/clip_image003.jpg

"Here are three engine photos of my '60 Lark 2-door; thanks for your offer to post them. There is a filter element where the heater used to be.... makes a nice fresh/ram air setup, since the air is picked up from under the right front parking light. Externally, the car looks 100% stock....I'll send photos of it when I can get it out to take some. Brief engine description:

259 bored .100", for 274 CID (a 7,000+ rpm engine)
Variable ratio blower, blueprinted by Ted, curved vane impeller, R2 AFB carb, matched intake ports
On a flow bench, the heads flow 15% better than stock R3 heads, w/titanium valves....R3 intake, 1.60" exhaust.
R2 cam, forged Ross pistons, balanced.
R3 headers w/ internal work & matching, 2 1/4" exhaust.
Aluminum flywheel, OD trans, 4.27 TT rear end, HD rear springs.
And much more. Everything is freshly built, and I'm just getting it broken in. Auto Machine built the engine (they built Ron Hall's 185 mph stock R3 Bonneville engine and the R3 in the Plain Brown Wrapper plus at least 50 Stude V8s for various Stude guys, so they know the Stude V8 very well).

In doing this car, I had three concepts:

1. Make a visual duplicate of my dad's 1960 Lark that he bought new...it had V8, power kit, no radio or other options, and it was Colonial Red. I was with him when he ordered it...sure enjoyed that car....I still have the original window sticker.
2. Build a '60 very similar to the Holman & Moody racing Larks that did so well, plus blower.
3. See what I could get out of a 259 for street use. The variable ratio blower gives quite a bit more low and mid-range power than a Paxton fixed ratio. They're about the same over 5,000 rpm when the VR pressure regulation runs out.

A '59/'60/'61 Lark 2-door sedan is the lightest car that Studebaker put a V8 in."





Pretty neat!! [:p] [8D] :D



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/finished044.jpg

barnlark
01-06-2009, 11:31 PM
Wow, is that an incredible engine. That composition looked familiar...but, without any serious guts like that. So, that is what it is supposed to look like when done right!
Somebody's cousin must be very proud. ;)[^]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN0015-1.jpg



http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

ChampTrucking
01-06-2009, 11:39 PM
DROOL SLOBBER DROOL!!!!!!!

58PackardWagon
01-06-2009, 11:43 PM
Where is Auto Machine located. Please advise phone #. I would like to talk to them about rebuilding a motor. Thank you

58 Packard Wgn (Parade Red)
58 Packard Wgn (Park Green)
58 Packard Sdn (Shadowtone Red)
62 Daytona (White)
63 R2 Lark (Super Red)
57 Packard Wagon parts car
57 Packard sedan parts car
58 Packard 2 dr hdtp parts car

R3 challenger
01-07-2009, 12:52 AM
Wow, Barnlark....I thought I was seeing double for a minute until I started looking for the blower. You'll have to fix that, OK? The whole engine compartment looks better than mine....great job!

Auto Machine is located in the far West Chicago suburb of St. Charles. Their telephone number is 630-584-1188; ask for Kim....he's the shop foreman and knows Stude V8s extremely well. They have a fully-equipped machine shop and other goodies such as a sonic tester for checking cylinder wall thickness.

I forgot to mention that another one of my concepts when building the supercharged '60 Lark was to create what Studebaker could have done--but didn't--in 1959: Make the first Super Lark. The year 1958 was a recession year, and only 878 supercharged Golden Hawks were made (compare that to over 4,000 GHs in 1957). I'll bet they had some leftover blown GH 289s that would have fit beautifully in the new '59 Lark 2-door. That engine plus other common Stude options such as Twin Traction, HD springs & shocks and the T-85 GH overdrive would have made one of the very fastest 1959 cars available. Carter introduced the AFB four-barrel carb in 1957, so even that would have been possible instead of the Golden Hawk 2-barrel. In building more or less a duplicate of what they could have done, I tried to make it look like the factory did it....black valve covers, etc. Nothing fancy, just all business.

Thanks for the post, Dick.

George

george krem

sals54
01-07-2009, 02:47 AM
C'MON NOW... BREAK THAT BEAST IN SO WE CAN SEE WHAT IT'LL DO ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! HURRY ! ! ! ! ! ! ! MY BLOOD'S BOILING JUST THINKIN' ABOUT IT. ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !!

sals54
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/sals54/NewSignature.jpg

StudeRich
01-07-2009, 03:37 AM
Dave that is one impressive looking Engine Compartment, I like it![:p]

It may not be as fast as Georges, but it sure looks pretty! [:0]

One thing does really jump out at me though, I probably should mention it, not to be picky, but it does look wrong to me!

The heater hose from the upper part of the water manifold (the hot one) looks like it is going directly to the heater core! [:0] You can not turn off the hot water with the valve, unless you run it to the Valve.
You have the Return hose coming from the water control Valve to the suction side of the pump.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/My64Daytona.jpg
StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

Swifster
01-07-2009, 10:26 AM
Dave and George, both engine compartments look great. You should both be very proud. And thanks to Dick for posting the pictures of George's car. I can't wait for the exterior pics!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/rollingpi.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/01-01-05TheStartingPoint.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/07-17-07FrontClipRemoved.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/04-11-08CoolingFan.jpg

JLasvegas
01-07-2009, 11:18 AM
very inspiring, looks clean, simple and fast

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/3053270621_acbec95891_t.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3027/3053282963_80ff432e9c_t.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3289/3053279651_46c4f7971f_t.jpg
1964 Daytona Wagonaire
259cid flight o matic

silverhawk
01-07-2009, 11:21 AM
That is awesome! I hope someone gets a video of it going and puts it on youtube.[8D]

Dylan
'61 lark deluxe 4dr wagon
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr200/1961lark/DSC001581.jpg

Allan Songer
01-07-2009, 11:23 AM
I love EVERYTHING about this car!!!! EVERYTHING!!!!

PackardV8
01-07-2009, 12:09 PM
As always, George and Ted do Studes right. That build is good science, good philosophy and great execution; determine what Stude could/should have done and make it happen. Naturally, I agree with that concept as that is what I am doing on a couple of my own. Can't wait to see some strip times from it.

As an aside, history shows Studebaker would have made the Super Lark option so expensive, few would have been sold. Stude was not alone in wildly overpricing the performance options on their cars. Ford was just as short-sighted back in the day. A base 1965 Mustang could be bought for around $2300. A full-performance K-code 271HP, 4-speed, limited-slip, chrome-wheel, disc brake car cost nearly $4,000. There was only $250 difference in the actual cost of components, but $1,000 more net profit built into the selling price.

Could'a, should'a, would'a, the unoffical Studebaker lover's mantra.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

barnlark
01-07-2009, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by StudeRich
One thing does really jump out at me though, I probably should mention it, not to be picky, but it does look wrong to me!

That's not picky and you're right. That picture is from when I had just dropped it in the car in the fall of 2007. For installation, I had been going by old pictures from when I got it that also had it installed wrong and quickly realized it wasn't right. Should have caught that. [B)] I don't drive it ever needing heat, that's for sure, but I worked pretty hard on that engine bay and the little stuff is now worked out. I am still not happy with the inner fender paint job and plan to fix that this spring.
Don't want to detract from George's engine...HOLY MOLY does that look sweet.
One question George: Does a 1958 289 engine have a unique ID number to distinguish if it was an original blown engine? I have one and just wondered.




http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

Desert Explorer
01-07-2009, 12:40 PM
What a beautiful build!!!

quote:Externally, the car looks 100% stock
Now that is the dictionary defintiton of "Sleeper".

Someone pulls up beside you at the local stoplight, revs the motor, and when the light goes green they wonder where you went........

Not to mention the open mouthed gaoping stares at the dragstrip!

BobPalma
01-07-2009, 01:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by barnlark
One question George: Does a 1958 289 engine have a unique ID number to distinguish if it was an original blown engine? I have one and just wondered.[/b]



:) Dave: I just noticed your question and thought I'd jump in. Yes, an originally-supercharged 1958 289 would have a unique identifying stamped number on the front of the block. Instead of P for a normally-aspirated "regular" 289, the supercharged engine will have PS for a Golden Hawk, or LS for a Packard Hawk. :D[b]BP

JDC
01-07-2009, 02:39 PM
A question about Auto Machine in St Charles. What did it cost people to have a motor rebuilt there. I called them and they said they won't look at it for less than 3K. That made me a little nervous since mine runs and just smoke. It does need an overhaul but man, just don't want to spend 4k for a stock 259 2v.

Allan Songer
01-07-2009, 03:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDC

A question about Auto Machine in St Charles. What did it cost people to have a motor rebuilt there. I called them and they said they won't look at it for less than 3K. That made me a little nervous since mine runs and just smoke. It does need an overhaul but man, just don't want to spend 4k for a stock 259 2v.


You get what you pay for.

JDC
01-07-2009, 03:22 PM
Not always. I remember that little R2 Museum piece thread we had here. You usually get ripped off. That is becoming more the norm. My question should be, what is the average cost for a rebuild Studebaker engine?

PackardV8
01-07-2009, 03:51 PM
Lets look at the extremes:
1. $500 - JDP, with his years of experience and his parts stash can do a functional re-build for one of his own cars. Would he do one for you or an infinite number at that price? Course not.
2. $3000+ for Auto Machine's expertise. The best shops don't have to take on any CASO work. They have the reputation to attract those who want the best.
3. For around $2k-to-2.5k we can do a stock Studebaker V8 rebuild correctly; with all new wear parts; bearings, pistons, rings, valves, guides, assuming all core parts are re-usable.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

StudeRich
01-07-2009, 03:58 PM
If you start with the PARTS to do a complete Stock rebuild, (with bore & new pistons) at at least $2000.00 it is not too hard to see how the machine work and labor to do the build would put the total at between 3 & $4,000.00 pretty easy. [:0]

One would think they could chop off 1000 to $2000.00 for an overhaul, IF they do them, but I think they are telling you that they will NOT! :(

JDC
01-07-2009, 04:50 PM
I do not want to sound like I want something for free. I am just saying that I don't want to spend 4k on junk. I also worry when I get no sort of estimate other than 3k and then we start charging. Ballpark is nice. When I did electrical on the side, I never got by with, 1k to start. People run. I understand that quality and shop time is expensive.

Allan Songer
01-07-2009, 05:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDC

I do not want to sound like I want something for free. I am just saying that I don't want to spend 4k on junk. I also worry when I get no sort of estimate other than 3k and then we start charging. Ballpark is nice. When I did electrical on the side, I never got by with, 1k to start. People run. I understand that quality and shop time is expensive.


I have OVER $4000 in my R1. But it was done RIGHT (Valley Head Service, Los Angeles, CA)

PlainBrownR2
01-07-2009, 05:28 PM
Auto Machine has been ours(and the club's) goto blockwork guys for many years. If I'm not mistaken, they've even went over a rebuild for a block for one very famous R3 Avanti(numero uno). They're reputation around these here parts is very good. Therefore, at 4K, there shouldn't be any doubt you should get your money's worth.

[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left][img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg[/img=left][IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

Dick Steinkamp
01-07-2009, 06:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDC
I also worry when I get no sort of estimate other than 3k and then we start charging.


A shop never knows exactly what they will get into until they tear down your motor and start cleaning, measuring, examining. You could have a cracked block, cracked heads, crank out too far to turn, rocker arm shafts worn, heads too warped to true up, cylinders bored too many times to bore again, mains not true and align boring needed...probably 20 other "gotchas".

$3k with no surprises sounds fair. Count on $4k and you probably won't be disappointed. Probably.

As Jack indicated, there are cheaper ways to freshen your motor and if yours is a low performance motor that will only be used for the occasional drive, I'd sure look at those options.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/finished044.jpg

sals54
01-07-2009, 07:24 PM
I'm afraid I have to agree with the majority party here. You DO get what you pay for. Studes just cost more to rebuild than the Ch*vys. Even the F*rd engines are expensive, though not as high as a Stude. Good Luck with your build tho.

sals54
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/sals54/NewSignature.jpg

PackardV8
01-07-2009, 09:30 PM
For a reality check, the rebuilt kit shops use for a basic 350" SBC comes with new pistons, valves, rockers and balls, lifters, cam, timing set, all the bearings, rings, new oil pump and a gasket set for $199 delivered.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

barnlark
01-07-2009, 09:57 PM
[quote]Originally posted by BobPalma

[quote]Originally posted by barnlark
One question George: Does a 1958 289 engine have a unique ID number to distinguish if it was an original blown engine? I have one and just wondered.[/b]

:) Dave: I just noticed your question and thought I'd jump in. Yes, an originally-supercharged 1958 289 would have a unique identifying stamped number on the front of the block. Instead of P for a normally-aspirated "regular" 289, the supercharged engine will have PS for a Golden Hawk, or LS for a Packard Hawk. :DBP

[b]Rats, I was hoping for a diamond in the dirt on that engine. :( Thanks, Bob

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/100_2016-1.jpg

bams50
01-07-2009, 10:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDC

I also worry when I get no sort of estimate other than 3k and then we start charging. Ballpark is nice. When I did electrical on the side, I never got by with, 1k to start. People run.

I understand what you're saying here. Obviously I know nothing about the shop referenced, so I could be wrong- but it sure sounds like a type I've experienced: They act like you're an annoyance to them and fire off an arrogant comment like that without even looking up from what they're doing. If that's what they are, forget them- they don't deserve your business. Based on what others said it's seems it's not the case here, but it sure sounds suspect to me. What Dick said about the process and the "gotchas" is right on the money- but it still doesn't justify that type of treatment.


Just do your research, ask around (especially here) and don't open your wallet until you're comfortable, and you'll be just fine.


Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

58PackardWagon
01-07-2009, 11:23 PM
I will have to include them on my list. They are closer than the other two being that I am in MN. Have they done a number of R2's....does anyone know?

58 Packard Wgn (Parade Red)
58 Packard Wgn (Park Green)
58 Packard Sdn (Shadowtone Red)
62 Daytona (White)
63 R2 Lark (Super Red)
57 Packard Wagon parts car
57 Packard sedan parts car
58 Packard 2 dr hdtp parts car

R3 challenger
01-08-2009, 12:17 AM
Dave: Bob is right...my '58 Golden Hawk has engine number PS-6323. It's the original block.

I used to live near Auto Machine, so I got used to going there out of habit. I'm sure there are many engine builders that can do a nice job, but since I got comfortable with AM, I just kept going there. As for price, I waited and saved up for years to do this project, and I sold some things to help finance it. I decided to do it as well as possible, and not to think about the cost. Most of my builds during my lifetime have been low dollar, so this was an exception. But I'm glad I took that approach....I really enjoy the car, and it still cost a whole lot less than the average new brand X. I just wish my dad were still here so he could get a ride in it....he always did have a weak spot for high-performance, having purchased a new 1964 R2 Super Hawk and the power kit '60 Lark. Guess I got it from him.

George

george krem

barnlark
01-08-2009, 01:17 AM
George, my '60 convert came with the power kit option. Wish it looked like yours, though. It was much more tame.
How many 289's were commonly found in anything other than a Hawk in 1958? I thought the above '58 engine might be from a Hawk, just knew they weren't stamped true "JT" yet and wondered how one could tell. Never a doubt about you or Bob being right when it concerns the high performance questions. I figured any two teenagers who peeked through fences to see new Studebakers rolling out the factory doors would have the answer to that simple '58 question. [^]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

BobPalma
01-08-2009, 07:17 AM
quote:Originally posted by barnlark

George, my '60 convert came with the power kit option. Wish it looked like yours, though. It was much more tame.
How many 289's were commonly found in anything other than a Hawk in 1958? I thought the above '58 engine might be from a Hawk, just knew they weren't stamped true "JT" yet and wondered how one could tell. Never a doubt about you or Bob being right when it concerns the high performance questions. I figured any two teenagers who peeked through fences to see new Studebakers rolling out the factory doors would have the answer to that simple '58 question. [^]



:) Dave: 289s in cars other than Hawks in 1958? Well, all Presidents had the 4-bbl/225HP naturally-aspirated 289 standard equipment, and some trucks would have had heavy-duty 289s. All Silver Hawk V8s had naturally-aspirated 289s and, of course, Pursuit Marshal police cars. (All the above is for domestic production only; export and Canada varied.)

The JT stamping to denote an R1 (JTS = R2) didn't come along until late 1962, as you probably realize, for the 1963 model year.

George and I didn't limit ourselves to peeking through fences to see new Studebaker production. We availed ourselves of factory tours and occasionally took advantage of open doors and unattended loading docks when security was lax, to appoint ourselves JT (that would be Joint Tour) Guides for personal "inspection"[:0];) of ongoing production.

The latter "tours" were limited by the number of uneaten doughnuts in the guard shack, to be consumed before said employee's assigned duties resumed.;) :DBP

JDC
01-08-2009, 10:05 AM
Sorry for messing up your thread George. I love the car. Sorry to everyone else too. I've just had quotes from 2k to 5k and it is a bit confusing. Just watching out for my pocketbook.

barnlark
01-08-2009, 11:18 AM
:)" Dave: 289s in cars other than Hawks in 1958? Well, all Presidents had the 4-bbl/225HP naturally-aspirated 289 standard equipment, and some trucks would have had heavy-duty 289s. All Silver Hawk V8s had naturally-aspirated 289s and, of course, Pursuit Marshal police cars. (All the above is for domestic production only; export and Canada varied.
George and I didn't limit ourselves to peeking through fences"..

Well, that certainly extends the likelihood of it being a common engine. I thought 259's were much more common. I would love to have my original 259 done to George's specs, but I'd have to save for many years for that, as George did. I'd be happy with it done correctly with minor updates. My plan is to tackle the grunt work myself and go farm out the expert stuff when I can afford it. Right now, my 21K mile early '62 289 will have to suffice. ;)

R3 challenger
01-08-2009, 12:39 PM
Bob and I probably hold the record for getting "lost" in Studebaker factory tours. We also hold the record for getting kicked out for unauthorized entry, but the times we got away with it more than made up for the slight embarrassment of getting caught.

Our most successful security breach occurred in 1963, when, after getting kicked out of the front entrance of the truck/Avanti building a couple of times, we walked around back. There we found a nearly empty RR boxcar sitting next to the building with doors open on both sides. We climbed into the boxcar, walked through it and right into the middle of the factory building, walking past a very large carton of Paxton superchargers (that got our attention). After telling each other "Act like you know what you're doing", we approached the assembly line and struck up a conversation with a worker who was doing something on an almost completed 1963 Avanti. He was grousing about not having enough time to complete his jobs, and I suppose we slowed him down even more. Hope that Avanti didn't have any warrantee problems because of us.

George

george krem

64 Stude
01-08-2009, 06:21 PM
George did you have the engine dynoed?

Bellingham Studenut
01-09-2009, 12:41 AM
Great job on that engine combination George!
Did you use a T85 OD?
I once knew someone who would only run orphan performance power and people would say it was not only quick, but had lots of character. He and his car were later referred to as "The Quick Character".
If you need to break in the Lark more, you should bring it to the Northwest Overdrive on Vancouver Island! There is a group going from Bellingham WA and always a guest room to stay along the way. Didn't you have a Stude Story about once being in Victoria area with your 64?

James

The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.

R3 challenger
01-09-2009, 07:38 PM
The car will be put on a chassis dyno this spring for super tuning. It'll be at a well-equipped shop that belongs to a friend of mine. Time to run racing gas!

James: I used a fresh T-86 overdrive, and I make sure that the OD handle is pulled out before getting on it. Ted Harbit apparently used a T-86 during the years he was winning those national championships, and I don't think he had any failures. And that's with drag slicks and launching the Chicken Hawk hard at 4,000-5,000 rpm. Also, in 1964 when I installed the R3 in my Challenger, I had to borrow money to buy the car and the engine, so I didn't have any bucks for a transmission. Therefore, I had to use the T-86 that came with the car. With a 3.73 TT axle and an R3, everyone told me that the trans wouldn't last, but it did. In '69, I finally ordered an NOS T-10 4-speed (the one we've been using at the Pure Stock Drags), but the T-86 lasted for five years, 6,000 miles, and many hard runs. I know some guys have torn up T-86s, but I've always had good luck with them. Also, street tires and a light weight car help. That plus no wheel hop.

I lived in Victoria in 1974-75; played in the Victoria Symphony and taught at the university. My only car there was a 1964 Commander 2-door sedan with a genuine R3...had lots of fun.

george krem

tstclr
01-10-2009, 08:06 PM
That's just AWESOME George!

Bellingham Studenut
01-13-2009, 11:44 PM
George,

That is great testimony of the T-86 strength and durability!

Did the same Auto Machine in St Charles IL do some work on R3SH320 out of the 1st R3 Avanti?

I can only imagine (and heard 1 tale of) your R3 Lark haunting all other cars on the Island. I've even seen legendary Totem Poles there with Larks replacing Thunderbirds [}:)]
You should seriously think about bringing your 60 Lark up as a guest of honor for the NW Overdrive tour and always have an open invite to stay here in Bellingham along the way. We even have a couple o them funny B engines and interesting cars to see.
PS- My Grandfather played in the Vancouver Symphony and I played Trombone through high school.

James

The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.

StudeDave57
01-14-2009, 01:45 AM
quote:Originally posted by Bellingham Studenut

We even have a couple o them funny B engines and interesting cars to see. James
And that, my friends, would be the understatement of the year!!! ;) :) [^]
Yes, I know- it's still pretty darn early into 2009 to say such a thing,
but until YOU see the Bell Collection with your own eyes~

YOU HAVE NO &$%@%#@*@ IDEA!!!!

Trust me-
I got to see a portion of it in the middle of a blizard last month!!! [:0] ;) [:p]

Hopefully (one day) I'll get to see the rest during slightly better weather...


StudeDave '57 [8D]
San Diego, Ca. (for now...)
San Diego County SDC
www.studebakersandiego.com

'54 Commander Regal 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview 'Betsy' (she's a 2dr wagon)
'57 Commander DeLuxe 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion Custom 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

Part owner of the one and only
'55 PROTOTYPE panel van

R3 challenger
01-15-2009, 12:30 PM
Thanks for the invite, James. For now, we've got to get my wife past some long-term health problems, so I won't be taking any trips that require lots of time (like driving a couple thousand miles). Sure sounds tempting, and I'd like to see your collection sometime; sounds like quite a collection.

Auto Machine had the block for the first R3 Avanti for several years. I'm not sure why it hasn't been built up yet, unless it's finances. I remember something about the block having problems, but I can't remember what they were/are. I haven't asked them about it lately. They've got an R1 there for rebuild right now.

The '64 R3 Commander I had years ago was a real sleeper...I ended the exhaust system at the end of the mufflers (used Hemi mufflers) and faked everyone out by hanging the last foot or so of a single exhaust pipe from a Lark 6 on the right side of the bumper. The car also had standard looking white walls and full 1964 wheel covers. All intentionally the opposite of the "hot car" look of the day. I even painted the car Moonlight Silver to keep it looking innocent. No fender emblems. All that was worth a couple hundred horses...by the time the guy in the next lane caught on, I was gone. I sold that R3 engine to Ron Hall, he rebuilt it at Auto Machine, and it was the first engine he used at Bonneville when he went 172 and 185 mph in the first two years.

George

george krem

barnlark
01-16-2009, 12:35 AM
"Auto Machine had the block for the first R3 Avanti for several years. I'm not sure why it hasn't been built up yet"

That's a line that terrifies anyone ready to plunk down a few K "before we start charging"...at least to me. The good ones are backed up, I guess, but I've lost money and parts when things are left for long periods of time. If it's going to be "years" tell me up front.

PlainBrownR2
01-16-2009, 12:47 AM
The R3 block has been completed to my current knowledge. It is back in the hands of its owner and is just awaiting to be returned to the car. The block if some of us remember, was left outside with the chambers exposed. The block was carefully went through, as it had to be preserved as much as possible. To put fears to rest for the time being, no parts were lost, nothing is missing, etc. This is a block where there is history behind, so if it's damaged permanently, that's it, there's no reset on things of this nature(well with original equipment anyway). Therefore, the block was very meticulously assembled. Also, there was also alot of back and forth about how the block was to be put back together, and what needed to be done to it, which is partially why it took so long.

[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left][img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg[/img=left][IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

billslark
01-16-2009, 01:07 AM
George,
Was the 64 Commander yet another one of you're R3 engine installations, besides the Challenger? Did it also use a T-10 four speed?

I really like you're 60 Lark, that McCulloch blower looks right at home under the hood. You did a great job building the car.

Bill

barnlark
01-16-2009, 01:13 AM
Are there any pictures of that? I would love to see it finished. Satisfied customers are all you can go by for a job mostly hidden inside a block.
I'm ready to get mine done and while it's certainly no R3, I want to chose the right place to do it. BTW, I've lost parts during those "years" at a chrome plater, never an engine rebuilder.[V]

PlainBrownR2
01-16-2009, 01:49 AM
Unfortunately, it's still "under wraps", as they say, the stuff they ship the blocks in.

Bellingham Studenut
01-16-2009, 01:54 AM
I heard R3SH320 would need at least .030 overbore, so it might require sleeving the cylinders. Hopefully the internals that were swapped into an R1 were returned.
Auto Machine is the same company that did Ron Hall's engines, so no doubt they did a great job.

George, that sounds like one heck of a sleeper and no wonder everyone on Vancouver Island got surprised!
Having a single 6 cyl tail pipe on a stock looking Lark (hiding a R3) is beyond normal fun!
You and Ted have always been my inspiration. You are both what Legends are made of!
Would that engine from it be the same engine that was rebuilt by Auto Machine for Ron Hall's record breaking Car?
Was the same Lark part of a trade with your car trailer and gold Avanti for your White R3 Avanti?

Dave, you only spent 5 hours looking at Studebaker's. There are 2 more buildings to go through when you get back up here.
We just added a overhang in front of the Diner this week (where the gas pumps will go).
I'm heading to CA next week, so I will be "Studeless in San Jose".
Maybe I can get over to see how Dick is Utelizing his time.

James





The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.

Lark259
01-16-2009, 11:20 AM
WOW !!
That is exactly what I have dreamed of doing for years ! I cannot wait to see how it performs.How about some more pictures ???

R3 challenger
01-17-2009, 09:26 PM
Bill: Yes, that R3 '64 Commander was a different build project from my R3 Challenger (Plain Brown Wrapper). And yes, it had a T-10 with Hurst shifter. I also owned the Wrapper at that time (mid-70s), but since the mileage was so low, I decided to build more or less a duplicate for street use, and to make it a sleeper.

As for the first R3 block at Auto Machine, James, my impression from Kim (the shop manager) was always that they were ready to work on the engine given any reasonable lead time, but the owner wanted to thoroughly research the situation before starting on it. In other words, Auto Machine was not the hold-up. But AM knew exactly what that block was, and there was no security danger. That car has been in pieces for decades, and I haven't asked about it lately, but I'm sure somebody out there knows its status.

I'll try to post some external photos of my '60 soon. When I was doing the blower installation on my '60 Lark, my biggest concern was the tube under the hood that stiffens the hood by running diagonally under it. It appeared that it would run very close to the back/top of the blower. I used a Golden Hawk blower mount setup, which positions the blower higher than the later R2 Lark/Hawk setup. I had measured things before starting, and it appeared that it would fit, and it did. The brace tube misses the back upper part of the blower by about 1/2", and there's plenty of room in terms of height. Larks are good that way.

Sleepers-R-Us,

George

george krem