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Nitram
01-04-2009, 04:28 PM
decided to wind it up a bit to "blow the spiderwebs out of the carbeurator".
Before I was ready to shift into second, there was a tremendous bang and she jumped out of gear. You woulda thought the trans was laying out on the road.
At the next red-light when I wanted to start out, I noticed it wanted to keep jumping out. I had to literally hold it in to get started. Now, there is not chance of it staying in. The minute you go to let the clutch out, you can feel it wanting to jump out. I did make it home to the shed.
1. Did I loose 1st gear or is it synchronizers?
2. Will I have to yank the tranny?
3. Can this be fixed in the truck?
Any advice is appreciated before I start wrenching.
Somebody please tell me this is an inexpensive/easy fix.

Oh...it's a 57 Transtar V8, fresh motor, with an overdrive 3speed on the column.



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/360197307_8639ee4a46_m.jpg[/img=left]
[i]~Nitram~
57 Transtar

tbredehoft
01-04-2009, 04:33 PM
Will it start out in second? If yes, you've lost teeth off the first gear. The synchronizers only let it go into gear easily, have nothing to do with staying in gear.

No. 2 Yes

No. 3 No

Expensive only if you pay someone to do it. A good large, clean work bench, a shop manual and a parts list will get it fixed if you think you can. Gears should be available, but That's not a promise. Check with our vendors.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
'55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
(Under Construction 571 hrs.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

N8N
01-04-2009, 04:34 PM
well, there *ARE* no synchros on first gear in either a T-85 (which I assume you have) or a T-86 (the logical other option) SOOO... it's gotta come out and get torn down before I'd even hazard a guess as to what your issue is. Unfortunately, while a 6-cyl no O/D trans can be easily lowered from under a truck and balanced on one hand (I have experience with this) I suspect that a T-85/OD is not quite so easy to remove, so you may want to procure a floor jack and some lumber before proceeding...

hey, at least it's a truck, you probably don't even need jackstands to drop the trans :)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nitram
01-04-2009, 04:38 PM
quote:Originally posted by Tom B

Will it start out in second?

Yes it will start out in second. It was the only way I could get it to move at my last redlight. It would absolutely not stay in first.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/360197307_8639ee4a46_m.jpg[/img=left]
[i]~Nitram~
57 Transtar

gordr
01-04-2009, 04:49 PM
Does it go into reverse OK, and stay in? If you have severe trouble with reverse, too, then either you have knocked teeth off the first-reverse sliding gear, or the fork and/or linkage are broken.

If it's only first gear, could still be broken teeth on the sliding gear, but just on the front edge, or broken and/or badly worn teeth on the mating gear of the cluster gear.

Severe wear on the mating parts of these gear teeth is common on hi-milers, the result of not enough double clutching, or dragging clutch issues left un-repaired.

Unless it is something really simple and obvious, like a problem with the exterior linkage, the transmission will have to come and fully torn down; in which case you might as well treat it to a complete overhaul. New bearings, new cluster gear, new first-reverse sliding gear, new synchros, new seals, and other new hard parts as needed.

Check the ads in TW. There may be a vendor who sells rebuilt overdrive trannys on an exchange basis, which would be the way to go if you don't want the hassle of doing it yourself.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Nitram
01-04-2009, 04:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by gordr

Does it go into reverse OK, and stay in?
Gord Richmond

All other gears seem to work ok. I was able to back it into the garage no problem.

Before this happened, I noticed when I pulled out in first, with the overdrive locked out(disengaged), it would "sing like a church choir".
If I had the overdrive lever pushed in (engaged), it didn't make near as much noise.
Is this any help or indication now?


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/360197307_8639ee4a46_m.jpg[/img=left]
[i]~Nitram~
57 Transtar

Warren Webb
01-04-2009, 08:42 PM
I had this problem years ago with another make 3 speed stick trans & ended up replacing the cluster, first/reverse main & reverse idler gears. Not a hard fix once the trans is out of the vehicle.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

clonelark
01-04-2009, 08:53 PM
I would at least inspect the U-joints after fixing the trans. easy fix while you have the trans out. It's about like anything else, if you play, you gotta pay.

Nitram
01-04-2009, 08:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by clonelark

I would at least inspect the U-joints after fixing the trans. easy fix while you have the trans out. It's about like anything else, if you play, you gotta pay.


This was not a pop the clutch slam some gears thing. I did a typical clutch engagement at the normal rpms. It was only after I got moving that I pushed the accelerator down hard.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/360197307_8639ee4a46_m.jpg[/img=left]
[i]~Nitram~
57 Transtar

gordr
01-04-2009, 10:39 PM
"Before this happened, I noticed when I pulled out in first, with the overdrive locked out(disengaged), it would "sing like a church choir".
If I had the overdrive lever pushed in (engaged), it didn't make near as much noise.
Is this any help or indication now?"

You've got me. My best guess is that the position of the overdrive lockout lever is somehow affecting the side load on the mainshaft bearing between the OD case and the tranny proper. When transmissions get worn bearings, it's very typical for them to be noisy in first and second gear, and go quiet in direct, because the side load on the worn bearings is greatly diminished in direct.

Is this a T86 or a T85 transmission? Former has a stamped steel top cover, with 6 mounting screws. Latter is a side-loader, with the left side of the case, complete with shift levers, forming the case cover. Former uses an R10 3-planet overdrive; latter uses an R-11 4-planet overdrive.

I really think you are going to have to tear that tranny down. Fortunately, in a pickup, the removal/replacement process is pretty easy.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

JRoberts
01-04-2009, 10:52 PM
Might this tranny also be a T90? I believe they were used in mid-'50's V-8 pickups.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

Avantidon
01-05-2009, 07:09 AM
Nitram unless you are inclined to remove the tranny and do the repairs yourself, take it up the road from you to the Wiymer's and let them do it for you. It will be done quicker and with less hassle to you. IMHO that's what I'd do with it especially since you can at least get it to move in 2nd gear.[}:)]:D

Nitram
01-05-2009, 03:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by Avantidon

take it up the road from you to the Wiymer's and let them do it for you.
A phone call to the Witmers is definitely in order.
If first gear is gone, would it be cheaper to get a rebuild than repair? Some other responses were hedging me on in that direction. I guess it will be hard to tell what cost will be till I get it openend up.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/360197307_8639ee4a46_m.jpg[/img=left]
[i]~Nitram~
57 Transtar