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riversidevw
12-19-2008, 01:16 PM
Anybody have suggested source for NOS or restored original equipment seat belts for the '56 model year?

I don't have old belts to restore. I had these long ago on a '57, I have no illusions about their practicality or the wisdom of using 50 year old fabric.



Gil Zimmerman

1955 Speedster
1956 Golden Hawk
1958 Packard Hawk
1958 President

wolfie
12-19-2008, 01:21 PM
They are available from either SASCO or Stude int,not sure which it was.I dont have my paperwork handy but I think they are repros.I bought a set for Tracys lark at Lancaster this year.There were several colors and styles if my memory is still working.Steve

Retired
12-19-2008, 01:24 PM
Studebaker International has them in stock.

Richard

mbstude
12-19-2008, 01:26 PM
Here's the 'correct' seat belt for a '56 Golden Hawk. I doubt that's available from vendors.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Daytona%20Rod%20Run%202007/Daytona_2007205.jpg

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/StudeDriveLogo_small.jpg

riversidevw
12-19-2008, 01:32 PM
Thank you.

I'm aware of those repros, I have them (from S-I) on the '58 President, quite happy with them.

For the '56, I was thinking of the original equipment type. These were similar if not the same as those used in old Douglas passenger planes, the outboard belts mounted on the front doors. Only came in gray fabric, as I recall. I guess NOS belts surface occasionally (but that fabric is getting really old). I'm also told that they can be restored with new fabric.

Gil Zimmerman
Riverside, CA

1955 Speedster
1956 Golden Hawk
1958 Packard Hawk
1958 President

studegary
12-19-2008, 01:56 PM
Makes me think of a '56 Golden Hawk that I passed up for $50 because it was missing the hood and carb., and I am not talking ancient history. I should have bought the car for some of the parts, like those door mounted seat belts, but I figured that no one would want those.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

N8N
12-19-2008, 02:29 PM
I believe JDP has the door mounts for those seat belts, they will need rechroming however. I used to have the rest of the stuff (including at least one belt in decent condition) and it all went to JDP with my 56J, but I suspect that they either went with the car or was sold off.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

riversidevw
12-19-2008, 02:49 PM
Thanks, Nate.

Door mounts and door belt clips would be a good start.

Gil Zimmerman
Riverside, CA

1955 Speedster
1956 Golden Hawk
1958 Packard Hawk
1958 President

wolfie
12-19-2008, 02:57 PM
Hi,I am pretty sure they had that 56 style in Lancaster.We talked about what would be best for my 53 if I added belts to it.As said earlier I know they had several different styles and I am pretty sure one mounted to the door.I know we discussed that style because the vendor did not like them and suggested something different for a driven car and said for a 100% correct show car it should have no belts.Since my 53 will be a trailer queen anyway I will have none in it.Good Luck,Steve

58PackardWagon
12-19-2008, 03:46 PM
Over the years I have pulled a sets sets of these early belts. The engineering concept is very interesting. I hope to install these in my 58 Packards one of these days.

58 Packard Wgn (Parade Red)
58 Packard Wgn (Park Green)
58 Packard Sdn (Shadowtone Red)
62 Daytona (White)
63 R2 Lark (Super Red)
57 Packard Wagon parts car
57 Packard sedan parts car
58 Packard 2 dr hdtp parts car

bondobilly
12-19-2008, 07:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by riversidevw

Thank you.

Only came in gray fabric, as I recall. I guess NOS belts surface occasionally (but that fabric is getting really old). I'm also told that they can be restored with new fabric.


No, they were avaialble in a multitude of colors. A pair of Green ones sold on E-bay recently. To further confuse things, there were/ are TWO different mounting plates for the doors. One type has the bend in the bracket on an angle and the other at 90 degrees.

If you do happen to come across a set and truly intend to use them, may I suggest that you have somebody make up two thick metal plates that fit inside the door and use nuts and bolts rather than the machine screws. Adding athe plate will add a huge amount of strength.

As I have stated almost everytime this subject comes up, using these belts without a method of locking the seat back is akin to suicide.

Somebdoy out there surely can come up with a way that woud lock the seat backs.

If you are not a purest you can use the door mounting hardware and secure it to the floor. When we had those belts on our 56 Hawk they got ruined because they use to fall down and get dragged.

BG

Jeff_H
12-19-2008, 07:40 PM
I've heard about these belts before but never saw a good picture until now.

Does the stock installation have NO reinforcement plate inside the door at all and the 5 screws are just sheet metal screws into the door [:0] If so, seems that it could pull right out!

I wonder what happens in a crash here if the door latch pops open. Does the belt (if buckled) keep it closed sufficiently? I am reminded of some 80s or 90s cars (GM ?) where the shoulder belt was mounted to the door I think. Those must have passed the crash testing.

Jeff in ND
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/ee-engineer/Snowscenetiny.jpg
'53 Champion Hardtop

bondobilly
12-19-2008, 07:54 PM
quote:[i]Does the stock installation have NO reinforcement plate inside the door at all and the 5 screws are just sheet metal screws into the door [:0] If so, seems that it could pull right out!



The five screws are the only means of attachment. That is why I suggest another plate inside the door. in a crash two things happen. The door flies open, and the seat back moves foward. Because of th elegth of the door mounted belt the door is free to move outward about two to three feet as the othe belt is quite long.

Bottom line, in a crash, you are basically cut in half.

Ford used the same belts in the 55 and 56 T-birds and then stopped and used two floor mounted sets.

BG

JDP
12-19-2008, 08:10 PM
Bondo would know, but they were used in a aircraft. DC 3 or something. Yes, I have the used brackets, $40 for the pair. BTW, it cost me about $400 to do the belts in my 57 Golden.

JDP/Maryland
Please vote for Sid (64GT)in the NYT contest.
http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/Contest/

8E45E
12-19-2008, 08:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by riversidevw

Anybody have suggested source for NOS or restored original equipment seat belts for the '56 model year?



I would try these guys. They are in England, but appear to have the correct material.

http://www.quickfitsbs.com/seat_belts.asp

Craig

barnlark
12-19-2008, 09:30 PM
Gil,
I have a set of those brackets for the door opening. Email me if you are interested. They may be correct, but as Bill said...ouch!

58 PackardWagon,
Do you have the aircraft seat belt latches with the quarter size indentation for the S-P sticker? I have a nice front set, but my other two have rusted shut springs. Not sure what the options were in '56, but the belt fabric only came in grey in '59-'60. I have the original factory code and option list..only grey belts were offered.

JDP
12-19-2008, 09:35 PM
Craig, those belts are not correct for the early cars.

JDP/Maryland
Please vote for Sid (64GT)in the NYT contest.
http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/Contest/

big jim
12-20-2008, 07:20 AM
Per topic- SP50060-65 seat belts, front available at extra cost $ 24.65.jg

58PackardWagon
12-20-2008, 07:23 AM
Barnlark, I really don't know. I know where I have them stored in the shed. I will have to look. I do recall that none of them have rust, but some need new cloth webbing. I have three sets for the front. Two grey and one blue.

barnlark
12-20-2008, 08:37 AM
I found a place that has almost exact replacement fabric for the belts in any color and they sew them correctly, too. They even have the stainless clip to press on the end of the belt. Very reasonable. I used black since I think the gray ones would detract from a black interior presentation.
'58, are yours for that door application, or for the floorboards?

riversidevw
12-20-2008, 10:58 AM
Yeah, I was spectacularly wrong about the "gray-only" thing. Parts book shows gray, black, red, green, blue, brown...

I've seen only a few of these, they all happened to be gray. Those in that black '57 Hawk I purchased back in my school days in '65 were gray, a really awful match for the interior. (Might have been the only choice the El Monte, CA dealership kept in stock.) The fabric and poorly chromed door hardware hadn't aged very gracefully, either. I quickly hid the rear belts and inboard front belts under the seat cushions, had a local dealer install the 60's style floor-mounted front belts (the ones with garish gold medallion). Car still had the newer and original belts in place when I sold it 25 years ago.

I'm still tempted by the "distinctive" appearance of these somewhat weird things. Bill's safety admonitions are much appreciated. My wife has a deep and somewhat blind faith in lap belts. Seems like the mounting brackets are available but decent buckles will be big problem to find. In the end I may just go with the floor-mounted belts (already have 'em around here somewhere) out of regard for bringing family members home alive.

Engineering for safety was definitely a minor afterthought in the 50's. Probably best I can do is careful attention to brakes and tires, hopefully fewer than usual lapses of judgement

Gil Zimmerman
Riverside, CA

1955 Speedster
1956 Golden Hawk
1958 Packard Hawk
1958 President

barnlark
12-20-2008, 11:57 AM
Gil,
I don't have a 50's parts book, just the 59-64 version, which of course has the muilti-colored belt options in it for later Larks, etc., and Hawks after 1960. Does the parts book for 1956 give a multi-color option, too? If so, why would they go back to only gray by late 1958? None of my cars came with belts originally, so I can see why there are confusing applications found later. Dealers must have used anything on hand, or whatever the owners wished color, or fastener-wise.
The two pics below show a Myer family '60 Lark with original gray belts, etc., that I use for reference. Sorry, fasteners are upside down and was using film in 1996. I noticed the seat back panels are gray also in a beige interior. The second one is mine. Do these look like the '56-'58 fasteners?

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSC_0007.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN0058-1.jpg

bondobilly
12-20-2008, 12:17 PM
Yes they are 56 buckles. Best way to check is to turn them over. See if they say "Aircraft Specialties" Terterboro NJ. or Air Associates Buckle Assembly. One other thing I forgot. The top of the buckle came two ways. One as shown in photo shown, and also in "brushed" metal, both with the SP reflective decal. Either are correct for 56.
http://bondobilly.com/beltbox.jpg

58PackardWagon
12-20-2008, 01:38 PM
Barnlark, mine are for the front door application. Are you able to provide details and where one can source the new webbing and metal end cap for the belt?

N8N
12-20-2008, 01:52 PM
if you already have the belts and need them to be restored, these guys can probably do it (for a price)

http://ssnake-oyl.com/

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

barnlark
12-20-2008, 03:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by 58PackardWagon

ABarnlark, mine are for the front door application. Are you able to provide details and where one can source the new webbing and metal end cap for the belt?


Sure, email me and I'll try to get you a sample. I just stop in. They have another business and they just happen to have everything. What color?

riversidevw
12-21-2008, 10:29 AM
Even if I use the replica floor-mounted belts for the '56, I'm still thinking about getting together a pair of front seat belts for the Packard (probably more for display than use). How available are the small metal retaining clips for the front portion of the door-mounted outboard belts?

Gil Zimmerman
Riverside, CA

1955 Speedster
1956 Golden Hawk
1958 Packard Hawk
1958 President

58PackardWagon
12-21-2008, 10:53 AM
N8N thanks for the lead. The name scares me a little....my Grand Father used to sell Snake Oil when he was not doing his baudville (spelling?) act.

BarnLark car one would be my Park green Packard Wagon. The interior looks like a sea foam green color.
Thank you

58 Packard Wgn (Parade Red)
58 Packard Wgn (Park Green)
58 Packard Sdn (Shadowtone Red)
62 Daytona (White)
63 R2 Lark (Super Red)
57 Packard Wagon parts car
57 Packard sedan parts car
58 Packard 2 dr hdtp parts car

barnlark
12-21-2008, 11:10 AM
I'm on vacation, but will check when I get back in town, '58.