I need a little help with a decision.

[jeryst]

I have found two Silver Hawks.

The first, is a totally original car, with 12k miles. Runs and drives, but needs some brake work. 6cyl 3 speed. Has a few minor rips and tears in the interior, paint chipping in a few places. What you would expect of an original vehicle that has been kept in a garage for its entire life

The second, is a car that was restored a while back. Has around 70k miles. Supposedly needs nothing, but has some minor scratches in the paint, etc. V8 289 automatic. What you would expect of an older restoration.

Both cars are originally California cars with supposedly zero rust. Both look very nice in the photos, and appear very solid. Both cars are priced very close.

So here I set with a decision to make. I like the idea of having a completely original, low mileage, survivor class vehicle. Everything original. Nothing changed. But I'm not crazy about the 6cyl motor, doing brake work, etc. On the other hand, the restored vehicle is ready to go, and has a V8.

I've looked up the values on NADA, just as a reference, and there is very little difference, so that does not seem to be a big factor. I just keep oscillating back and forth.

So, I'm just looking for some opinons from the hundreds of collective years of experience on this forum, maybe to sway me one way or the other.

[Allan Songer]

I wouldn't touch a coupe or Hawk sportin' a flathead 6 with a 10 foot pole. I mean, these cars SCREAM "I'm FAST!" and when you have to floor the darn thing to get up a freeway onramp so as not to enter the buzzing traffic at 35 mph you'll just feel flat out embarrassed.

[bams50]

To start with, take brake work out of your decision. With any car of this age you WILL need to brake work, and do so much more frequently than with modern cars. The upside is, anything you need is available, and the systems are simple. But understand that you cannot escape brake work, no matter the car or condition.

With that out of the way, it will come down to mostly personal criteria:

What is your REAL purpose for buying a car? Do you want a frequent driver or occasional? Cruising along back roads/surface streets to shows and ice cream shops? Does your life and/or area require mostly blasting along Interstates? Think along those lines; many times we envision jumpin' in the Stude every day and driving to work, but find out it's not nearly as practical or comfortable, or dependable, as we dreamed. So the car is relegated to weekend cruising, for which a sweet-purring 6 is just fine.

Next, picture it at a cruise-in. How important to you is it to have an 8 under the hood to show? How important is it to you to have the atention/approval of onlookers, and if important, what do you THINK you need to have to get that approval?

Don't get too hung up on miles. It doesn't really matter on a car this age; and, it can be pretty difficult to conclusively prove low mileage on a car this old anyway. On a survivor it makes a difference in value, but that value is usually hard to determine for the above reason.

To me, old cars are pieces of history- rolling sculpture. If I need speed and noise, that can be gotten easily and cheaply. For me, I'd be more interested in the low-mileage survivor.If it's as represented, I'd get a lot of joy out of detailing it back to how she came from the factory and experiencing the flashback to those days; the reality is, most all highway driving I do require a modern car anyway; so my Studes will almost never be required to go fast.

In the end, my decision would be almost completely based on which car strikes a chord with me the most- color combo, interior, etc. Pick the one that tugs hardest at your heart strings, buy it, and enjoy. That's really what the hobby's about, right??[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

[BobPalma]

As Bob Andrews said, the cars are probably so close in "value" on the open market that it will come down to your preference as to color, equipment, etc.

That said, if you plan to drive it much at all, the restored V8 would be the better choice. Here's why:

The value of the six will depreciate more rapidly if you put many miles on it. Assuming it is a legitimate, 12,000-actual-mile "survivor," much of its current value is derived from that fact. If you buy it and do a whole bunch of work to it and run the miles up to 50,000 or 60,000 in the next 6 years, it will have lost more of its "value" than would have the 70,000-mile V-8 car over the same period of time and use.

Like the man said, "They're only original once." Most of that 6-cylinder Hawk's present value is predicated on that fact. Remove much originality and run the miles up and it will lose a higher percentage of its present "worth" because you will have used up much of its originality, if that is important to you.

I hope this makes sense. BP

[rusty65]

Yeah,I think bams50 nailed it.Your car is about YOU, not others in the hobby.IMHO I'd go with the six-banger just to be different.Everybody and their mommy has a V-8, or so it seems.BTW the last cruise-in I went to didn't have time trials.That being said, however,if you get the 6,be prepared to be snubbed by the Camaro/Mustang/tri5 Chevy crowd.They just won't 'get it',but a true car guy as well as most Stude lovers will appreciate it.'Nuf said.Let us know which one you end up with.

[Avantidon]

Jerry, as it has been stated it is a matter of opinion as to which to purchase. As has been said what do you want a screamer or a nice car? Both of these cars has their advantages and disadvasntages. The 289 Auto will draw attention just like the 6 will. With the 6 you have some options such as changing the manifold and adding two two brl carbs. Imagine being at a show opening the hood and Whamo there's this neat two card setup. Also you can add a dual exhaust system to the car and make it even more interesting. So as I said initially it's a matter of opinion and what you really want to accomplish. If it were me I'd take the flathead 6 modify it and blow folks away at a show. Good luck with what ever decision you make. They are both cars to have.

[Kdancy]

One of the best driving Studes I have driven was a 6cyl hawk that was driven from Fl to South Bend in 97. It wasn't a barn burner but was just a nice driving car.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8

[mbstude]

I'd take the 12K mile survivor. I'd rather have an unrestored, all original car than a restored one anyday. And those flathead 6's aren't hot rods, but they're not that bad with a 3 speed overdrive. But that's just me. If you want a car to drive the wheels off of, take the V8 one.

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

[tutone63]

Well, There are a lot of great points here, and I agree with Bams that cars are pieces of history, but I also agree with Bob Palma, that if you are going to drive it, you want the restored with the V8.

From my own personal perspective, owning my 259 V8, and having owned a few older cars with various sized V8's, I would go with the V8. It has more power and more "awe" power at shows and cruise-ins.

Yes, my car is a four door, and I don't mind owning four door classics, but I would not own one if it did not have a v8...unless it was built before they were an option and it was a genuine survivor.


1963 Lark Custom, 259 V8, TT, 4 doors, 2 tone paint, and garaged for the winter...I can't wait til spring!!

[Anne F. Goodman]

Well I just love my 185 6 cylinder. If you are a go fast kind of person and you want to slow down and appreciate life more. I say go with the 6 . Plus you have the stress factor of driving a restored car afraid to take it anywhere. Might get scratched too much stress. I love driving Mabel with her 185 now the 170 she came with is another matter just plain scary on the freeways. But your car your decision. Hope this helps.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
1955 President State
1957 Golden Hawk
Fresno,Ca

[buddymander]

Go with the six. A restored car has a higher level of scrutiny, but an original is expected to have some wear and tear, and you can always just say, "But, it's all original". This is only if you can obtain verification of the miles. Even if you drive it more than most drive their studebakers, it will still be a low mileage car.

[jackb]

Following your 2 threads, I assume you will "not" be inspecting either car in person. I think that is a mistake. For some on the forum here, they turn cars (flip) over frequently and don't care much about color, handling and some of the niceties needed in the old car owner. It is "their" car for a short time and they don't get attached to it unless they can't sell it ..for a while. You are buying the car for you. I'd go see the car(s). One other comment about survivors and other low mileage cars....they usually suffer from "unuse" or "disuse". What do I mean.......mice, cruise-only cooling systems, quasi-functioning systems.....On the other hand, the restored driver might have been driven and kept up better over time...bugs de-bugged and systems kept up for quasi-daily driving....your choice...oh...get the V8....!

[studegary]

I would recommend the V8. You are dealing with a 1957-1959 car. From your description, I doubt that there is much difference in appearance in the two. Figure that they are both going to need some time and money spent on them.
You didn't say what year the six cylinder is. If it is a 1957-1958 it has the 185 cubic inch engine which is not too bad from a driving standpoint, but if it is a 1959, it has the 170 cubic inch engine which in my opinion is too small for the weight of a Hawk.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

[Dick Steinkamp]

If you are not "crazy about doing brake work", you might have a tough time owning an old car.

ALL old cars take a lot more maintenance and there are far more "fix its" than any newer car. Unless you personally go through an old car 100% to include all subsystems during a restoration, you will generally spend almost as much time under the car or at least under the hood as you do driving it.

If you can't or don't like to "wrench", finding a mechanic who knows these cars will be tough. If you do find one, it will be an expensive proposition to keep the car on the road.

Most old car owners enjoy fixing them as much as they enjoy driving them. It's a good match. If you are not in that category, think long and hard about owning an old car. It can be an expensive and frustrating experience if you need to farm everything out.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[IMG][/IMG]

[Desert Explorer]

That would be a hard choice for me also. I would lean toward the Survivor if it is truly nice enough to polish and repair some of the interior... the brake work is a minimal issue really.

On the other hand, as several have pointed out, milage and "Survivor" status only go so far........... and how much more would you want the V8.... I would probably go for the V8 otherwise you'll find yourself down the raod saying: "WOW- I coulda' had a V-8!"