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stuvw2mny
08-15-2006, 11:27 PM
I recently aquired a 1950 2R5 truck with the usual non-running sicks cylinder engine and the 4.90 rear end. I also have a 1956 President 289 V8 with a T86 tranny and overdrive. I want to put the V8 and overdrive into the truck to make it usable and also safer on today's highways. I also have truck/V8 mounts and bell housing.

I can't be the first one in 50 years that wants to do this. It seems that there are holes in the 2R5 front and transmission mounting crossmember that might fit the V8/truck mounts. Has anyone done this? Do the existing frame holes fit the V8/truck mounting?

Does anyone have any experience with runnning the existing 4.90 rear axle at 75mph highway speeds? The rear axle input should be running at a slower speed because of the overdrive, but the wheel bearings should be running at higher speeds than they were ever designed for. All of the parts are also 56 years old.

Also, the stock 5 on 5" truck wheels are a pain/problem. I am wondering if I can swap the 56 President finned brakes (including backing plates and all parts, if necessary) onto the truck and thus use the Studebaker/Dodge/Ford passenger wheels. I do not have time to switch to front disk brakes before the Omaha meet, but probably could swap Studebaker brakes and wheels.

N8N
08-15-2006, 11:34 PM
I don't know why you consider the 5 on 5 brakes to be a problem, but I do seem to recall that the Prez brakes are the same diameter as the truck's, and that they are a more modern design than the truck. So if my memory is correct, you may want to swap the backing plates, shoes, hardware, etc. from the Prez but keep the truck drums. I think you will have to drill a couple holes in the backing plates to make it work.

someone please correct me if I'm misremembering before he actually takes my advice and screws up.

As for the wheels, there is a more modern 15" wheel that will fit but I don't remember what it's from.

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

PackardV8
08-16-2006, 12:19 AM
Several of the big GMs, including Buicks from the 60s, had 15" diameter 5-on-5" bolt circle wheels 6" wide. I ran them on my '59 pickup for years. Sure made the steering stiff at low speeds with those wide passenger car tires.

Best thing to do for a swap is find a later V8 truck and see exactly how the mounts fit, exactly what the cross-member looks like. Easiest swap you will ever do, but having pictures and a shop manual makes it a no-brainer.

Taking a 55-year-old set of wheel bearings out on the freeway is guaranteed to strand you somewhere between Omaha and home. Most old Stude trucks I work on for the first time have NEVER seen a regular by-the-book maintenance of wheel bearings, driveshaft u-joints, carrier bearings or any other moving part.

Your truck and do it the way you want, but don't let anyone tell you the Stude V8 drum brakes in all around good condition are not safe. I have driven many different years of Stude trucks hard in freeway and city traffic with absolutely no problem stopping when I needed to.

Do brake swaps or disc swaps if you have the money and just an itch to do something different, but they are not necessary to drive your truck safely when lightly loaded in everyday use. (Had to say that, because someone out there was warming up to tell about the time he was coming down Wolf Creek Pass carrying a ton of uranium samples and pulling a 24' Airstream and the brakes just gave out.)

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

StudeRich
08-16-2006, 03:12 AM
NO ! the truck drums will not fit the '56 Pres. backing plates because all 1/2 ton Stude. trucks have the '50 Commander 11 inch drums. The Pres. is 10 inches in the rear. I think the whole setup: drums, wheels and all just MAY work ! (someone please correct me, if I am wrong!)The only prob I see is the "E" brake cables etc. and they should be able to be custom made to reach. But then again, our knowledgeable posters here have said: when it comes to BRAKES do not second guess the Engineers! just leave them alone! Makes good SAFETY sense!


quote:Originally posted by N8N

I don't know why you consider the 5 on 5 brakes to be a problem, but I do seem to recall that the Prez brakes are the same diameter as the truck's, and that they are a more modern design than the truck. So if my memory is correct, you may want to swap the backing plates, shoes, hardware, etc. from the Prez but keep the truck drums. I think you will have to drill a couple holes in the backing plates to make it work.
someone please correct me if I'm misremembering before he actually takes my advice and screws up.
As for the wheels, there is a more modern 15" wheel that will fit but I don't remember what it's from. good luck, nate

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Transtar60
08-16-2006, 08:15 AM
Go to the Studebaker Truck Talk site and check out(search) this topic.
Bottom line is after a certain serial number frame, the holes are there to bolt in the V8, same as ones used for Commander six.

Also you can research many options for brakes on trucks.


http://www.network54.com/Forum/23885/

garyash
08-16-2006, 09:24 AM
You have several choices on brakes. Jim Turner [http://www.turnerbrake.com] makes a disk brake set-up that will plug in easily. You can also take the entire brake set-up from a '63 or '64 Champ truck. The backing plates will bolt on to any Studebaker 1/2 ton truck from 1941 up. The newer brakes work better and are easier to adjust. You may need to swap the front hubs as bearing diameters may have changed in later years. The basic 11" drums are the same from (at least) 1941 through 1964. I don't think any of the brakes from a Studebaker car will fit the spindles.

With new front wheel bearings and axle bearings in your Dana 41 axle, you should be OK at highway speeds of 65-70 with your overdrive transmission. With a 0.7 overdrive ratio and 4.82 rear end, your final drive ratio becomes about 3.37. With 28" diameter tires, the engine should be turning about 2430 rpm at 60 mph in overdrive and about 3470 rpm when you kick it back into regular 3rd to pass, which is a comfortable rpm range for the V8. But, remember that only the engine turns more slowly with overdrive, not the driveshaft or ring & pinion gears. You probably won't want to go much faster with the suspension and steering of a 1950 truck. There should be plenty of 15x6 Stude truck wheels out there with the 5-on-5 pattern, if you need new wheels.

[img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/gary_ash_m5_sm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
Dartmouth, Mass.
'48 M5
'65 Wagonaire Commander
'63 Wagonaire Standard
web site at http://www.studegarage.com

rockne10
08-17-2006, 09:15 PM
I'd be surprised if the bearings are original and, if they are, they can be replaced. People have been known to do that.;)

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
33 Rockne 10
51 Commander Starlight
53 Commander Starlight
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/51x2.jpg
previously: 63 Cruiser, 62 Regal VI, 60 VI convertible, 50 LandCruiser

skyway
08-22-2006, 01:25 PM
I'm with N8N.

On my 41 Commander (same stock 11 inch single servos front and rear brakes as your truck) we used late model Stud V-8 fronts as follows.

Strip the truck down to the spindles, and fit the late model backing plates. Move them around until 4 of the 6 mounting holes line up, and then use the 2 holes in the spindle to locate the 2 new holes you need in the backing plates. At this point you can use the late model WC's, shoes, springs and such.

Now your choice is to use the original drums so that this change will not be detected until they crawl underneath, or to use the V-8 drums.

Original drums preserve the original wheels or those from mid 1960's Buick/Cadillac. V-8 drums allow Studebaker/Ford/Mopar wheels.

I stayed went with the original drums, and did not change the rears at all. Result is better front braking, a nice balance between the stronger front and the weaker rears, all without a proprotioning valve, and original wheels and covers.

I've got about 30,000 miles on this setup.

Skip Lackie
08-22-2006, 02:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by stuvw2mny

I recently aquired a 1950 2R5 truck with the usual non-running sicks cylinder engine and the 4.90 rear end. I also have a 1956 President 289 V8 with a T86 tranny and overdrive. I want to put the V8 and overdrive into the truck to make it usable and also safer on today's highways. I also have truck/V8 mounts and bell housing.

I can't be the first one in 50 years that wants to do this. It seems that there are holes in the 2R5 front and transmission mounting crossmember that might fit the V8/truck mounts. Has anyone done this? Do the existing frame holes fit the V8/truck mounting?



To go back to this part of your original question, you might want to go through the 2R through 2E parts book and identify the places where the E5 and E7 differ in such areas as motor mounts, steering, and suspension. The 2R5 and E5 were nearly identical mechanically, so any difference noted between the E5 and E7 will be a difference you may have to address. At least you won't be surprised. I put a Commander 6 into a 3R5 many years ago (thanks, JDP!) and I believe I had to change the front springs and the Pitman arm (or was it the reach rod?), plus the drive shaft, motor mounts, radiator, etc. My 3R5 frame was already drilled in all the right places, but your 2R5 frame might not be drilled for the V8 motor mounts. Take some measurements from any 55 or later V8 truck and drill as necessary.
Skip Lackie

Roscomacaw
08-22-2006, 11:18 PM
What Skip said - ALSO!!! There's about 4 different styles of V8 motor mounts used on Stude pickups (please, don't ask me how I came to learn this!:() Make sure you get the ones that are appropriate for what you're working with.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

DEEPNHOCK
08-23-2006, 08:01 AM
Good info!
The early C-cabs might not be drilled (or have holes) for the V-8 since it wasn't out at that time. I eyeballed my 2R10 more than a few times for a Stude V8, but the lil' 6 in there ran too sweet to rip it out;)
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie


quote:Originally posted by stuvw2mny

I recently aquired a 1950 2R5 truck with the usual non-running sicks cylinder engine and the 4.90 rear end. I also have a 1956 President 289 V8 with a T86 tranny and overdrive. I want to put the V8 and overdrive into the truck to make it usable and also safer on today's highways. I also have truck/V8 mounts and bell housing.

I can't be the first one in 50 years that wants to do this. It seems that there are holes in the 2R5 front and transmission mounting crossmember that might fit the V8/truck mounts. Has anyone done this? Do the existing frame holes fit the V8/truck mounting?



To go back to this part of your original question, you might want to go through the 2R through 2E parts book and identify the places where the E5 and E7 differ in such areas as motor mounts, steering, and suspension. The 2R5 and E5 were nearly identical mechanically, so any difference noted between the E5 and E7 will be a difference you may have to address. At least you won't be surprised. I put a Commander 6 into a 3R5 many years ago (thanks, JDP!) and I believe I had to change the front springs and the Pitman arm (or was it the reach rod?), plus the drive shaft, motor mounts, radiator, etc. My 3R5 frame was already drilled in all the right places, but your 2R5 frame might not be drilled for the V8 motor mounts. Take some measurements from any 55 or later V8 truck and drill as necessary.
Skip Lackie

JRoberts
08-23-2006, 09:52 AM
I am not sure about the V-8 as a drop in in an early C-Cab truck, but I do know that the t-86 tranny has no problem going in. The drive shaft had to be shortened, however. I put one in a 1950 2R6 that I had. I left the stock rear end in. The t-86 made gear rations so that it cruised just fine down the highway. In fact I used the truck as a daily driver for almost two years.
Joe Roberts