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Rosstude
11-22-2006, 11:13 PM
I am now in need of a source, and references, for a rebuild kit (seals, plates, bands, etc) for the trans in the Provincial. A search came up with http://www.autotran.us/#S, David Edwards, and http://www.transtarindustries.com/ as possible sources, any feedback on these?
It may well be that I end up needing some other hard parts as well.
My wife gave me a description in her language, that told me it made a noise prior to dying. But my teenage daughter really came through with good solid observations, it is becoming apparent that in spite of not showing much interest in getting greasy, she has been listening, watching (and likely reading the co-op column in T.W. knowing my little bookworm), and learning all along. Anyway, she reports that after backing out, and upon going from reverse and into drive, she heard a metallic “pop” followed by a “bell ringing sound”, and then the trans engaged into drive unusually quickly, and unusually firmly. Then she reports that the 1-2 shift gradually got softer, and progressively slipped more and more upon take off from a stop, but worked “OK” in 2nd and 3rd. No drive, no reverse = flat bed ride home. They got to work fine, thankful for that. Rear band let go, if I had to guess. I plan on overhauling the unit at this stage. I have to wonder if my 1st gear start change caused this failure, or just expedited the demise of the trans. O-well, now I know what I am doing this long weekend, should have it on the bench Friday afternoon. I plan on giving this a go on my own.
Thanks.

Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1963 Lark. F.S.

Chicken Hawk
11-23-2006, 09:46 AM
Probably is the transmission but I would first check the U joints, rear axles (assuming you still have tapered axles), and be sure the U bolt nuts are tight. Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker has transmission overhaul kits.

Ted


quote:Originally posted by Rosstude

I am now in need of a source, and references, for a rebuild kit (seals, plates, bands, etc) for the trans in the Provincial. A search came up with http://www.autotran.us/#S, David Edwards, and http://www.transtarindustries.com/ as possible sources, any feedback on these?
It may well be that I end up needing some other hard parts as well.
My wife gave me a description in her language, that told me it made a noise prior to dying. But my teenage daughter really came through with good solid observations, it is becoming apparent that in spite of not showing much interest in getting greasy, she has been listening, watching (and likely reading the co-op column in T.W. knowing my little bookworm), and learning all along. Anyway, she reports that after backing out, and upon going from reverse and into drive, she heard a metallic “pop” followed by a “bell ringing sound”, and then the trans engaged into drive unusually quickly, and unusually firmly. Then she reports that the 1-2 shift gradually got softer, and progressively slipped more and more upon take off from a stop, but worked “OK” in 2nd and 3rd. No drive, no reverse = flat bed ride home. They got to work fine, thankful for that. Rear band let go, if I had to guess. I plan on overhauling the unit at this stage. I have to wonder if my 1st gear start change caused this failure, or just expedited the demise of the trans. O-well, now I know what I am doing this long weekend, should have it on the bench Friday afternoon. I plan on giving this a go on my own.
Thanks.

Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1963 Lark. F.S.

rockne10
11-23-2006, 10:25 PM
Kits and bands are also available from FATSCO but I'd deal with Studebaker vendors first. These are the guys that keep us alive.

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
33 Rockne 10
51 Commander Starlight
53 Commander Starlight
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/51x2.jpg
previously: 63 Cruiser, 62 Regal VI, 60 VI convertible, 50 LandCruiser

Rosstude
11-24-2006, 12:13 AM
Thanks all,you are great:) I did peek under the wagon while my wife had it in gear, no movement on the shafts, its the trans:(
Stude vendors it is, come Monday

Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1963 Lark. F.S.

Roscomacaw
11-24-2006, 01:15 PM
Ross, get some photos of what you find and what you do regarding this venture.:)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Rosstude
11-24-2006, 11:34 PM
I plan on taking lots of pictures, mainly for my own reference, I have never taken one of these apart, and it will be spread on the bench for over a week, so the pictures will help jog my mind. I will post some pic's of the carnage. Did not get it out today, had to do some brake, and routine maintenance work to the Transtar as it will be in daily service for a while.
Harbor Freight has a trans adapter on sale, so I am doing a little shopping first:D

Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1963 Lark. F.S.

64V-K7
11-25-2006, 07:22 AM
Hi Ross,
Back in 1985(?), Stan Gundry wrote an article for Turning Wheels on doing, just what you are about to. There were some technical points, but mostly stressed being patient, using a clean workspace and follow the shop manual.
The article opened with "Well I used to advise against doing this yourself...."
So it appears the task isn't overwhelming. If you ake pics andmake a few notes, this, might well, be a good supplement to that article. Best of luck

Rosstude
11-25-2006, 10:52 PM
My back hurts[xx(]
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/TransFolly11-25-06005.jpg

I got it out with no problem, no injuries, boy that puppy is heavy. I am too tuckered out to peek inside, Monday night is my next window. The fluid smelled bad, burnt and brown. The harbor freight trans adapter did not work out, had to jury rig a plate for the floor jack, and then insert wedges to get it just right. I will fabricate an improved adjustable plate come time to re-install, it’s just too heavy monkey with. I fabbed up 2 alignment dowels from long bolts for the top bolt holes, as directed in the manual, special tool #1 was a snap. Did I mention that it is heavy, much heaver than I expected. I need a day of rest, today was a doozy, I did some work on the Transtar prior to the trans thrash, but that is another story.

Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1963 Lark. F.S.

64V-K7
11-26-2006, 10:47 AM
Ahhhh, off to a good start. I'll keep your notes and pics for reference. I have one of those, plus a long tail unit and a Powershift, all waiting in the wings..

Roscomacaw
11-26-2006, 05:16 PM
NOT for the faint of heart, eh Ross?[xx(] From that blue-colored data plate, I'd gather this is an AS2-5J or maybe a 5P Will you confirm for me? I wanna know if it jibes with what the Hollanders says.:D

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Swifster
11-26-2006, 06:20 PM
I'm not that familiar with FOM's. Is that a cast iron case or aluminum?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

John Kirchhoff
11-26-2006, 06:45 PM
Since it died slowly and the fluid is burnt and stinky, it could very well be a band that was slipping. It's probably not the front pump but if for some reason it is, it very difficult to get all the metal shavings out of every nook and cranny. Putting a new one in is risky because of the shavings still hanging around.

Roscomacaw
11-26-2006, 06:52 PM
It's a cast iron case.[xx(]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

StudeRich
11-26-2006, 07:14 PM
Ross; that Turquoise Green nameplate looks just like all our '56 & '57's were. I think it is the correct trans, not that it matters. You will find the most common damage in these is the clutch drum piston seals, which of course looses pressure and wipes out the clutches. Really thats about all that normally goes bad in these except the steel rings and front case bushing, front & rear seals, all normal rebuild stuff, none of which will cause failure. I think/hope you will find it to be in pretty good shape, especially after 49 years! Go for it, Ross! [^]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Rosstude
11-26-2006, 07:19 PM
Definitely cast iron, and moving it from the jack to the dolly was a wake up as to how heavy it is, and then onto the bench was indeed a job for the cherry picker. It is a AS2-5J. I have studied the manual, searched extensively here and the NG, read several Chiltons, and a Motors Manual, and I understand the need for cleanliness, and approaching the task a subassembly at a time, rather than blowing all the bits apart at once. If I find metal shavings I most definitely will pull the converter, if not....maybe a good flushing of the converter..still undecided on that however, first things first. I will be ordering a parts tomorrow morning.

Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1963 Lark. F.S.

Rosstude
11-27-2006, 10:07 PM
Got the main gunk off, a good hot bath (for the trans), a little work space cleaning, and I will open her up.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/Trans%20rebuild%2011-0/1stclean11-27-64.jpg
Thanks for the help, I am taking notes from your input.

Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1963 Lark. F.S.

Rosstude
12-02-2006, 08:36 PM
The cause of the failure became obvious early in the disassembly process. The lever on the rear servo broke. The photo may not show it well, but it looks like it was ˝ way broke for some time, one side was stained dark, and the other was fresh silver grainy metal. The strain of adding first gear start accelerated the inevitable it seems. The needle bearings were in the pan, but no metal shavings came on a magnet passed around during disassembly .
Take a look,
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/Trans%20rebuild%2011-0/Transapart12-2-060071.jpg
I got it all torn down, and even cleaned the case, extension housing, pan, and started to clean the control valve, not too bad of a day all and all.
All the seals and “O” rings are hard and brittle. Really quite clean inside, just darkened the fluid.
The front bushing, in the case shows some wear, I plan on replacing this.
The rear ball bearing (short tail shaft) is questionable, has a bit of rust on what was the bottom, must have got past seal. Will replace this too. The key for the rear pump is very worn, easy one.
The center support has some galling ( not as bad as a needle bearing would have done) and wear on the soft metal bushing, not sure how critical this is, any thoughts on the center support wear?
The front band has quite a bit of wear, the grooves are gone. The rear band looks good. I am replacing both either way. The cylinder for the rear band has a bit of discoloration, but buffs right off with crocus cloth.
The thrust was out of limits by .022" will order correct washer.
The shop manual really breaks it down well. I found a little boo-boo in the manual where the extension housing removal happens, it missed removing the seal housing and speedo drive. I opted to pull the snap ring off the rear bearing, and pull the extension off over the bearing, then the bearing. It would have worked as per the shop manual, but I chose to do it this way.
More pictures here,
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/r_rither/album/576460762358662284
More next week.


Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1963 Lark. F.S.

Roscomacaw
12-02-2006, 09:16 PM
Damned cheap parts! Only lasted 49 years. Good thing for Studebaker you can't twist their arm to make good on this!:( On the bright side, you'll be good for another 48 years of cruisin', eh?[^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe