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smaclean
10-23-2008, 10:07 AM
I was on my way home last night and was wondering. Do most of the cars in the museum run? How about the last 64 South Bend Studebaker? I think it's kind of sad to see it there with only 30 some miles on it. It was meant to be driven.

mbstude
10-23-2008, 10:25 AM
I think most of them do, as many are show quality restorations that were driven, and later donated to the SNM.

There are a few that were restored specifically for the museum, such as the Zip Van. While the mail truck got a complete cosmetic redo, the engine was never touched. I think the engine might've even been stuck. :)

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/quadraportle005.jpg

Retired
10-23-2008, 12:22 PM
OK, Lets Hit It. The '64 is lucky to be alive, while in storage in various buildings in South Bend prior to the museum being housed in the Freeman Spicer building, parts were removed by unscrupulous individuals for what ever reason. Thirty miles on the clock of this significant vehicle is plus.

Richard

Avantidon
10-23-2008, 12:24 PM
The last South Bend Studebaker originally sold to Boyer Bros Motor Co in Moselem Springs (Fleetwood) PA does run but it has been awhile.

smaclean
10-23-2008, 12:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by Retired

OK, Lets Hit It. The '64 is lucky to be alive, while in storage in various buildings in South Bend prior to the museum being housed in the Freeman Spicer building, parts were removed by unscrupulous individuals for what ever reason. Thirty miles on the clock of this significant vehicle is plus.

Richard


What kind of parts were "removed"? I noticed last summer that the brake pedal pad was missing. I wonder if that was one of the "missing items"..

Don't get me wrong.. It's nice to see a new stude.. just sad that it was never driven. I guess it's just part of the sad studebaker story.

studeclunker
10-23-2008, 01:51 PM
There is a stationwagon at the National Automobile Museum in Reno NV. that also has'nt been driven. It has even less mileage, I think. Actually, I don't find this sad at all. It's nice to see these vehicles as they were when new. Many of the show cars are dolled up way past what they came out of the factory. Their paint is picture-perfect as is the upholstry. These two Museum vehicles give one a glimpse back into the time when one could go down to the dealership and pick up a factory done car. They exist with all the warts, runs, and wrinkles that a production car would have. Though, to be honest, it would be a more perfect world to see those cars and their museum located at the test-track so that they could be driven, as they were meant to be, and as their motor-trains would be better off doing from time to time.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

bams50
10-23-2008, 03:35 PM
I know that when I looked inside the 64 last week there was no shifter. Must be inoperable. Too bad, I love that red-on-red color combo[:X]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

smaclean
10-23-2008, 03:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

I know that when I looked inside the 64 last week there was no shifter. Must be inoperable. Too bad, I love that red-on-red color combo[:X]



Yeah I just noticed that from the picture I took of it last summer. I remember thinking that there was no shifter when I was there.

Here are some pics of the car from last years meet.


http://community.webshots.com/photo/2344209820104246819TGvDqB
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2267094090104246819dHdNUY
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2582962250104246819paEXSo

It's a very pretty car. Can't wait till my 4 door is done sometime this century..

A1956GoldenHawk
10-23-2008, 04:55 PM
quote:Originally posted by smaclean

I was on my way home last night and was wondering. Do most of the cars in the museum run? How about the last 64 South Bend Studebaker? I think it's kind of sad to see it there with only 30 some miles on it. It was meant to be driven.


I completely agree with you ...IT SHOULD BE DRIVEN!!!

...driven by the lucky "winner" of a raffle benefiting SNM Restoration Fund during the week of the 2012 SDC International Meet which happens to coincide with the 50th Anniversary of SDC. Hey, maybe the lucky "winner" could take a few dignitaries (SDC President, Museum Board President, Mayor or such V.I.P.s) on the short drive down Sample St. where it came off the assembly line, then past the Studebaker Administration Building and back to the SNM where it would wait to be driven again during SDCs 75th Anniversary in 2047.


The older I get ...the better I was!

smaclean
10-23-2008, 05:16 PM
[quote...driven by the luck "winner" of a raffle benefiting SNM Restoration Fund during the week of the 2012 SDC International Meet coinciding with the 50th Anniversary of SDC. [/quote]

Hey that's a great idea!!!! That would be a nice site to see.

bams50
10-23-2008, 05:32 PM
I thought the fit and finish on the 64 was pretty decent; not as much with the 66 (the last one ever). That one was pretty far out of whack

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

[b]"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

Retired
10-23-2008, 06:06 PM
OK. Lets Hit It. Motor components come to mind i.e. carburator for one.

Richard

bams50
10-23-2008, 06:22 PM
What is it you always want to "hit"??[:o)] Hitting isn't nice;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

[b]"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

StudeRich
10-24-2008, 03:22 PM
Bob; I think the reason the last South Bend '64 is so nice and the last Hamilton car is not, is that the '64 IS original, and the Corp. drove the wheels off of the Canadian one, and it had to be partially "restored", poorly I guess! [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

smaclean
10-24-2008, 05:13 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Bob; I think the reason the last South Bend '64 is so nice and the last Hamilton car is not, is that the '64 IS original, and the Corp. drove the wheels off of the Canadian one, and it had to be partially "restored", poorly I guess! [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA


I haven't looked that closely to the 66 one. What is wrong with it?

55s
10-24-2008, 05:31 PM
I have not looked at the last 1966 lately - it was driven about 30K and restored.

I believe that the fit and finish of most 1965 and 1966 cars was generally better, because Hamilton built a quality product. In addition, the interiors were much more plush. Alas, they did have a McKinnon motor, but many people still like them. In any case, maybe the old "made on Friday and Monday" lemon rules used to apply to Studebaker as well.

Paul

bams50
10-24-2008, 06:17 PM
I was referring mostly to panel fit; poor alignment. The RF door has been hitting on the fender, leaving some scrapes. The paint was also, to my eye, the equivalent of a quickie. I know the factory doesn't do what a resto would, and overall the car does of course look very nice; but compared to the 64, it looked substandard. I do love the interior in it- really luxurious[8D]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

Warren Webb
10-24-2008, 06:39 PM
Didnt they just fo a restoration on the last 66 in the past couple years? I seen to remember hearing something about that in Turning Wheels. when I saw the last 66 in 1994, I was surprized how much orange peel & how dull the paint was compared to the last South Bend car, although I couldnt get a real good look around it from where it was parked & roped off mostly.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

barnlark
10-24-2008, 09:20 PM
[quote]Originally posted by bams50

What is it you always want to "hit"??[:o)]


I thought maybe he was Otis Day and the Knights retired until I checked. Richard does have a great point; it's lucky not to have been completely trashed until it made it safely to The Museum if idiots were stealing parts off of it. Was it a 4 barrel carburetor that couldn't be had anywhere else??? Sad. We should count ourselves very lucky, could have been worse.
I have two strong, yet conflicting feelings about it as it sits; both I feel have merit.
One, it's only going to have 30 measly miles on it one time. Start it once and awhile and keep it as new if that's the plan. Preserve and protect for generations. But, not running with parts that are seen missing in a museum for display always concerns me. With a little effort it could look as it did off of the line with little stuff like that done. Why aren't things complete like a shifter? Enough picky Stude owners with the proper parts to change that, I would think. Are there that many projects in the donated fleet there? Wish I were closer to help out if it's needed.
Second, I enjoy driving my car in a drivers club a lot. Mine has low mileage, too, but I figure it sat for 37 years and it was about time to leg it out. 2K this summer and it loves me back. I guess if I owned the last SB car I would drive it a little at the very least, even with it's history. I like the idea of a raffle winner (outside of Lancaster so it's legal.)[:o)];) getting to take it on the proving ground test track for a loop and bring it back. A Studebaker Drivers Club should sponsor just such a thing.[^]



http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

mbstude
10-24-2008, 09:54 PM
Ya know, I can see why someone might steal the carb... To someone needing one, it would be an almost new AFB for an R1.

I like the idea of driving it around the block in 2012. After all, you could always unhook the speedometer. ;)

I call dibs on riding shotgun! I couldn't be the one to drive it. It's an R1, I'd at least have to smoke the tires a little. :D

Oh, was/is it a PowerShift car?

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/quadraportle005.jpg

barnlark
10-24-2008, 10:10 PM
Matthew, everything was brand new and pretty useful on that important car, but I just never forgive the why in a thief's mindset. It wasn't their car, or their parts. Inexcusable. I understand the why; they're low lifes. I know you're kidding, but the speedometer drop is also inexcusable in my book. That's something a guy across the street in one of Biggs' stories would do to unsuspecting 1958 car buyers! [V]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

R3 challenger
10-24-2008, 11:29 PM
The R1 Daytona HT in the museum is a four-speed car. I wrote an article about it in the May 1982, issue of TWs. Later, Don Curtis and I figured out the following scenario: After the car was completed for the PA dealer who ordered it, Studebaker must have realized that it was the last car (with the exception of a couple of Avantis and a few CKDs for export). They found another very similar car in stock, installed an R1, and shipped it to the PA dealer. That "other" car was featured in a short article in the September 1989, issue of TWs. It has been in Australia for many years.

You're right......it would be nice if some chapter would make the museum R1 their project and support mechanical restoration of the car. Years ago, the museum told me that the carb had been stolen along with some other parts.

George

george krem

barnlark
10-24-2008, 11:58 PM
George, how far away from running is it? Did they just rob the R1 specific parts? Has it been taken apart by the museum at all for little repairs while it's been there? What is your thought on how it should be preserved..drive it a little or not?
I'll have to find someone with a copy of that May '82 issue and buy it, thanks for the tip on it's information. Figured someone had the skinny on it.



http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

Warren Webb
10-25-2008, 12:51 AM
If any work that needs to be done to such an important car such as the last South Bend Daytona, then why not also record things like the length of the plug wires, markings on the frame ect, details that we wouldnt be privilaged to see if we were there, then put it together in a book form like the museum has done with "Super Studebakers" so it too would bring in needed cash for other such projects.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

A1956GoldenHawk
10-25-2008, 08:03 AM
quote:Originally posted by R3 challenger

The R1 Daytona HT in the museum is a four-speed car. I wrote an article about it in the May 1982, issue of TWs. Later, Don Curtis and I figured out the following scenario: After the car was completed for the PA dealer who ordered it, Studebaker must have realized that it was the last car (with the exception of a couple of Avantis and a few CKDs for export). They found another very similar car in stock, installed an R1, and shipped it to the PA dealer. That "other" car was featured in a short article in the September 1989, issue of TWs. It has been in Australia for many years.

You're right......it would be nice if some chapter would make the museum R1 their project and support mechanical restoration of the car. Years ago, the museum told me that the carb had been stolen along with some other parts.

George

george krem


George, welcome to the SDC Forum, but what took you soooo long to post??? Were you waiting to get one of B.P.s hand-me-down computers[?]:D[:o)]


The older I get ...the better I was!

HAWK64
10-25-2008, 08:31 AM
quote:Originally posted by R3 challenger

The R1 Daytona HT in the museum is a four-speed car. I wrote an article about it in the May 1982, issue of TWs. Later, Don Curtis and I figured out the following scenario: After the car was completed for the PA dealer who ordered it, Studebaker must have realized that it was the last car (with the exception of a couple of Avantis and a few CKDs for export). They found another very similar car in stock, installed an R1, and shipped it to the PA dealer. That "other" car was featured in a short article in the September 1989, issue of TWs. It has been in Australia for many years.

You're right......it would be nice if some chapter would make the museum R1 their project and support mechanical restoration of the car. Years ago, the museum told me that the carb had been stolen along with some other parts.

George

george krem


George,
That "other" car is still here in Melbourne with the same owner & sadly still awaiting restoration but is safe & secure under cover.

http://www.studebakercarclub.net/jim.jpg
"QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER"
MELBOURNE.

ClaymoreWW
10-25-2008, 08:32 AM
I have been negligent...here is a photo of Bob/bams50 looking over the subject Lark in October of this year.

http://www.teamwetworks.com/claymore/photos/images/1_-_studebakers/studebaker_national_museum/snm-2008-18.jpg

--george

1963 Lark Daytona HT - 63V J8 175
http://www.teamwetworks.com/claymore/larkkey.jpg

Bill Pressler
10-25-2008, 12:24 PM
I have been negligent...here is a photo of Bob/bams50 looking over the subject Lark in October of this year.

Man, that Daytona always makes me weak in the knees when I see it! What a beautiful car, and basically a NOS Stude! I'd put that up against any '64 Falcon, Valiant, or Chevy II (and Rambler Classic, IMHO, although I know others disagree) for styling that has stood the test of time. What a great (and economical) facelift from the '63 model.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

barnlark
10-25-2008, 01:01 PM
That is a beauty..(not Bams)[:o)] Too bad it was violated; great looking final car. Great idea Warren, btw. Terrific info on that car for '64 guys.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

kurtruk
10-25-2008, 01:07 PM
So you think it should be driven once in a while...I not saying I'm against that, but here are some things to consider:

We know about aging tires. Must replace them.
Replace brake hoses and go through entire braking system.
What's the condition of the gas tank?
Replace plug wires.
Carburetor?
All lubricating fluids (differential, steering box, wheel bearing grease, etc.)

And if you want to do it legally, will it need to be registered and licensed? What about insurance?
Just some things to think about. It would probably be pretty good publicity for all involved (marque, club, museum) though, to take the last Studebaker out for a spin!

KURTRUK
(read it backwards)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2617723594_889afb71cf_t.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2267352617_720245049a_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3286/2679715309_563ea85e42_m.jpg

barnlark
10-25-2008, 01:20 PM
Like I said and asked...what condition is it in right now? Are those the original tires? What's missing and how far from trailering it to the proving grounds is it? Not sure it needs licensed for that drive; insurance, yes.
It would be a pain to get it to that point, yes. Fun and a nos car drive of a lifetime, yes. The other side of of my brain that respects purists says leave it there and stare at it forever, thus my conflicted post above. :(

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

Bellingham Studenut
10-25-2008, 02:41 PM
George,

I had no idea the R1 carb, or other parts are missing on the Daytona. It surely should have the proper set-up and be able to show what's under that hood all dressed with R1 factory chrome.
I have an original spare R1 carb I can donate if someone is willing to complete the installation.
We have an exact twin to that car with an interesting story.
Perhaps some other members have everything else needed.
They deserve to be preserved.:)

James Bell

The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.

ClaymoreWW
10-25-2008, 05:26 PM
I don't want to start something no one wants - I'm a new guy and all - but since people are offering parts and many have stated the missing parts should be replaced by a club or such...what if the forum members were the sponsor of the "restoration", either through donations of parts or donations of money?

--george

1963 Lark Daytona HT - 63V J8 175
http://www.teamwetworks.com/claymore/larkkey.jpg

JGK 940
10-25-2008, 06:49 PM
quote:...what if the forum members were the sponsor of the "restoration", either through donations of parts or donations of money?

--george

Seems to me the Museum has an "Adopt a Project" program already in place. Kind of hard to lend a hand from out here in the middle of the Pacific, but if somebody's willing to do the research to get this car set up as an adoptable project and/or willing to get in there with some parts and turn a wrench or two I'm sure there's at least a handful of us who'd be more than happy to pitch in some bucks.

Keoni Dibelka / HiloFoto
In Hawai'i; on Hawai'i; on the Windward Side
If da salt air never chew 'em up bumbye da lava will...

8E45E
10-25-2008, 08:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by Bellingham Studenut


James Bell
The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.


Hey James & Stephanie!! Great to see you've finally posted here on the Forum!:D Hope to hear from you some more!

Craig

studegary
10-25-2008, 09:11 PM
The 1966 was not restored. An SDC chapter took on the project of making the car more presentable for museum display.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

studegary
10-25-2008, 09:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by Bill Pressler



Man, that Daytona always makes me weak in the knees when I see it! What a beautiful car, and basically a NOS Stude! I'd put that up against any '64 Falcon, Valiant, or Chevy II (and Rambler Classic, IMHO, although I know others disagree) for styling that has stood the test of time. What a great (and economical) facelift from the '63 model.

Bill Pressler




It is a nice car, but I think that you are off the mark comparing it to a Falcon, Valiant, etc. The price on that '64 hardtop was about the same as the price on my fully equipped '64 Fury hardtop with 330 HP 383, Sure Grip, Torqueflite and much more. I will agree that the styling has stood up well. I just disagree with what you consider to be the contemporary comparables. I only kept my '64 Fury for one year and three days, so the test of time was not important to me then.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

StudeRich
10-26-2008, 01:51 AM
I still think Bill is correct, after all those WERE the Lark Type's competition! I think if you loaded up a Falcon Sprint Hardtop with as many options as your full size Mopar, the price would be pretty close.
But regardless of the price, a top of the line Compact is a top of the line compact, and that is what they had to compete against, certainly not an overgrown tank like a Satellite or Fury.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

bams50
10-26-2008, 02:24 AM
I think the point is the money. If you could get a more substantial, stylish car like a Fury for roughly the same money as a smaller Lark, for the average buyer it's a no-brainer. And- if you're talking size, should you pay more than the other comparables for a car with a stodgy reputation that looks like it's about to go out of business?

I agree, the styling stills shows well 45 years later; but unless you were a hard-core Studebaker devotee, styling would not be enough to make most people buy... imagine this motto:

Studebaker... small-car size, big car price!

Tough to overcome.....

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

BobPalma
10-26-2008, 06:55 AM
:) Not to confuse this discussion with facts, but I believe the MSRPs support StudeRich and Bill Pressler's position.

Base MSRPs from The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975:

1964 Studebaker Daytona V-8 2-door HT: $2,443

1964 Ford Falcon Sprint V-8 2-dr HT: $2,425
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 V-8 2-dr HT: $2,430

1964 Chevrolet Chevelle Malibu V-8 2-dr HT: $2,484
1964 Chevrolet Nova 400 2-dr HT (six cyl): $2,271

1964 Plymouth Fury V-8 2-dr HT: $2,706

While Studebaker had some destructive price differentials in the middle 1950s, they were in line with their perceived competition by 1959 and following.

(Rich and Bill win.;)) :DBP

Bill Pressler
10-26-2008, 07:42 AM
Gary, a '64 Fury Hardtop is to my 50-year old eyes one of the best-looking Mopars ever made--along with any coupe variant of the '68 Belvedere/Satellite lineup. I also like the '64 Fury's instrument panel with the four large round instrument pods.

But in size, and pricing, that Daytona is closer to the other manufacturer's top-line compact hardtops. I think the R1 option really packs a wallop, comparatively-speaking, on that window sticker. Other than a 327 Chevelle (available only beginning mid-year), none of those other compacts could be had with 240 hp, in my memory, anyway.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

bams50
10-26-2008, 08:56 AM
I made my post based on what I've heard said over the years on this board. I didn't have the interest to go to a library for research, and don't have one in my home. I commented based on some overall impressions (mostly gathered here) that, head to head, Studebaker had problems being price competitive with the Big 3. Sorry, BP, and thanks for getting right after my 1:24 AM transgression;)

Of course, that still doesn't overcome the fact that the competitors mentioned had much newer, fresher, exciting offerings for the money, with no threat of becoming orphans literally any minute- and the accompanying unavailability of parts and folks to work on them which would surely follow (in the average buyer's mind). I'm saying this based not on my feelings, but what I'm betting would be the view of the average buyer in 1964.

I was 3 years old in 1964, but had I been 23, I can't imagine I would have opted for anything Studebaker, whether I loved the cars or not:(


Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

A1956GoldenHawk
10-26-2008, 09:05 AM
Since we've been kicking around the "LAST" Studebaker automobile produced in South Bend; when was the "FIRST" true 'Studebaker' automobile produced in South Bend[?]

What model was it[?]

Does it still exist today[?]

The older I get ...the better I was!

barnlark
10-26-2008, 09:28 AM
The first Studebaker automobile was made in Cleveland with Garford and there is one in the Crawford Auto Museum here, but it's not the first. Not sure about the first South Bend made.

8E45E
10-26-2008, 10:06 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


1964 Studebaker Daytona V-8 2-door HT: $2,443

1964 Ford Falcon Sprint V-8 2-dr HT: $2,425
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 V-8 2-dr HT: $2,430



The Daytona would be more comparable in interior appointments to the Mercury Comet Caliente as opposed to the Ford division's range of compacts. Remember, Studebaker had to compete with the GM and Ford's entire range of cars with one line that was broken up into two or more with the others. I don't have the list prices handy for the Comet, or the Pontiac/Olds/Buick A-body cars, but I bet they might be a bit more than the Daytona.

Craig

BobPalma
10-26-2008, 04:43 PM
:) Bill Pressler & Gary Lindstrom: Have either of you seen the new, December 2008 Collectible Automobile magazine? There's a pretty photo-feature spread on a 1964 Belvedere 426 Super Stock hardtop in dark blue. Very nice car.

Bob Andrews: Yes, Studebaker's price differential problems were pretty well over with beginning with the 1959 Lark.

Craig: I think we're splitting hairs, here, as to Studebaker's perceived competitors in 1964. Here are 1964 Mercury Comet prices. There is virtually no difference between these prices and those of the Fairlane:

1964 Mercury Comet Caliente 2-door HT (six cylinder): $2,375

(No V-8 option price is listed, but the base V-8 option back then was usually about $100, which would bring the V-8-powered Caliente hardtop to about $2,475, only $45 more than the V-8 Fairlane.)

1964 Mercury Cyclone 2-door HT with standard 289/210 V-8: $2,655.

The 289/210 HP Studebaker V-8 was a $35 option for the $2,443 Daytona V-8 hardtop, bringing it to $2,478 with an engine equivalent to the Cyclone.

(Well...equivalent in displacement, that is. In service with the same maintenance, the Studebaker V-8 would have lasted twice as long as the burned-valve-prone small-block Ford V-8 it's first couple years out. I know: I was trying to tune them up in service stations at the time, having to deliver the news of a low cylinder due to a weak valve to customers when they wondered why we couldn't make it run smoother with a tune-up!) :DBP

8E45E
10-26-2008, 05:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


Craig: I think we're splitting hairs, here, as to Studebaker's perceived competitors in 1964.


Bob, I am going by light blue colored 'Competitive Product Review' that was published by Studebaker and is in the gold 1963 Facts & Folio, and it does include the 'upmarket' compacts besides the low-priced Big Three compacts. Obviously, Studebaker considered the Comet and B-O-P cars to be their competition as well!!:)[:0]:)

Craig

BobPalma
10-26-2008, 05:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E


quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


Craig: I think we're splitting hairs, here, as to Studebaker's perceived competitors in 1964.


Bob, I am going by light blue colored 'Competetive Product Review' that was published by Studebaker and is in the gold 1963 Facts & Folio, and it does include the 'upmarket' compacts besides the low-priced Big Three compacts.:)[:0]:)

Craig


:) Studebaker's better value sure comes to light in these B-O-P prices, Craig:

1964 Buick Skylark V-8 hardtop: $2,751

1964 Pontiac Tempest Custom 2-dr HT (six; no V-8 price listed): $2,345

1964 Oldsmobile F-85 Cutlass Holiday V-8 2-dr HT: $2,807

(Geeze, Louise; the Olds is $101 more than the base price on Gary's 1964 Fury hardtop! But, hey; those were the days when GM could charge just about any price they d*mn well pleased and the customers still couldn't wait to start writing the check!) :DBP

R3 challenger
10-26-2008, 07:06 PM
The factory clone (now in Australia) to the museum R1 hardtop has serial number 64V-12414. Its final assembly date was 10-16-63, which is a long time before the museum car was built, so it sat around for over two months before being selected for the PA delivery. The original destination for 64V-12414 was Plainview, Texas....we don't know why it stayed at the factory, but the production order did not have "SOLD RUSH" on it.

Actually, the last complete (not CKD) Studebaker to officially leave factory assembly lines was Avanti R-5643. According to the production order, it was completed on December 26, 1963, six days after the museum Daytona HT. But the museum R1 HT is the last of the "bread & butter" models. Come to think of it, the clone might be the "last" car, if you allow the engineering department the honor of production status. Many would not.

I'd like to see the museum car completed, too, but my preference would be to keep the present mileage. Less than 30 miles comes only once!

George

george krem

barnlark
10-26-2008, 11:11 PM
"I'd like to see the museum car completed, too, but my preference would be to keep the present mileage. Less than 30 miles comes only once!"
george krem

I now think you are exactly right, George. As much as I'd like to have a chance to drive it, it needs to stay at 30. Thanks for more information on them from someone who's been there and back with this marque. Rebuilding my car and driving it after 37 years was just as much of a thrill to drive for the first time. Not like a NOS car, but pretty darn smile inducing.
Can you really consider a factory Daytona that the engineering dept. completed to the original order specs a clone? I think it's the real deal, maybe better, but I certainly respect your very erudite opinion on it's status. The last car "out of the door" and "off the line" may not be the same thing, but maybe the second built/finished car should just be called a "twin" to the Museum's car. They were separated at birth!

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

Bellingham Studenut
10-27-2008, 02:07 AM
The following are all the 10 Bordeaux Red 64 Daytona Hardtops made with R1 engine and 4 speed transmission.
Note: The one in the National Museum and Australia were ordered with red cloth seats, not all vinyl, so the museum car may be getting brittle to sit in (although I would have let the dealer sit in it).


Serial#, Engine#, Interior, Current Location
1378, H38, Brown Vinyl, Nevada, TX
1433, H313, Black Vinyl,
5669, J311, Black Vinyl,
9342, J330, Black Vinyl,
9705, J330, Black Vinyl,
11942, K310, Black Vinyl,
12414, K315, Red Cloth, "Vict Austr TW 9/89"
12694, K316, Black Vinyl,
17546, M314, Red Vinyl, Bellingham, WA
20202, ????, Red Cloth, Stude Museum

Anyone know the engine # of 20202?

James


The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.

R3 challenger
10-27-2008, 12:16 PM
Good points. One change the factory apparently did not make to the "conversion" car was to install front fender (oval) R1 ID tags. A production line R1 would have had those as standard equipment. The probably reason is that the conversion Daytona was originally made with a stock 289 engine, not an R1. As such, it would have had the stock 1964 V8 parallelogram emblems on the front fenders. I know from experience that when those are removed, they tend to leave small indentations in the paint, and those indentations are visible when an oval R-engine emblem is then installed. The factory likely did not want to send out a car with those imperfections, and at that late date, they probably didn't want to repaint the front fenders.

So 64V-12414 may be the only 1964 Lark-type Avanti powered car that left the factory with stock V8 fender tags.

George














george krem

StudeRich
10-27-2008, 01:43 PM
Hi James glad to see you here, thanks for posting that good info! [^]

I find it interesting that your car's Serial and Eng, number are way later than all the rest, except the one Museum car, I expect it to be a slightly later "M" November build date than yours, maybe!

In '63 they seemed to be going hand to mouth on the engines vs the car build dates, all of my '64 build slips show very close Eng. and car build dates. [:0]

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

studegary
10-28-2008, 02:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

I still think Bill is correct, after all those WERE the Lark Type's competition! I think if you loaded up a Falcon Sprint Hardtop with as many options as your full size Mopar, the price would be pretty close.
But regardless of the price, a top of the line Compact is a top of the line compact, and that is what they had to compete against, certainly not an overgrown tank like a Satellite or Fury.

StudeRich



Rich - I think that you may be confused on years and models. I do not have the dimensions here, but a 1964 Fury hardtop was not "an overgrown tank," I believe that a '64 Fury hardtop was not much larger, and probably not much heavier, than a '64 Daytona hardtop.
I traded my '64 Fury hardtop in on a new '65 Sport Fury hardtop. That was a big car (compared to the '64) as my 1963 Dodge Custom 880 was.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

studegary
10-28-2008, 03:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) Not to confuse this discussion with facts, but I believe the MSRPs support StudeRich and Bill Pressler's position.

Base MSRPs from The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975:

1964 Studebaker Daytona V-8 2-door HT: $2,443

1964 Ford Falcon Sprint V-8 2-dr HT: $2,425
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 V-8 2-dr HT: $2,430

1964 Chevrolet Chevelle Malibu V-8 2-dr HT: $2,484
1964 Chevrolet Nova 400 2-dr HT (six cyl): $2,271

1964 Plymouth Fury V-8 2-dr HT: $2,706

While Studebaker had some destructive price differentials in the middle 1950s, they were in line with their perceived competition by 1959 and following.

(Rich and Bill win.;)) :DBP



Bob P. - I was not comparing base prices, as you are doing. I was comparing two particular cars, the '64 Daytona in the SNM with an MSRP of $3256.33 and my personal 1964 Fury hardtop.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer