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View Full Version : KILLER SuperHawk!



bams50
10-13-2008, 07:17 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-SUPERHAWK-PAXTON-SUPERCHARGED-CALIFORNIA-4-SPEED_W0QQitemZ200262404410QQihZ010QQcategoryZ6466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

I believe this belongs to TOMMO. Well-presented, stunning car, and my favorite color combo for that car[:p] Good luck- I think your best pitch nowadays is the investment angle; good call there.

As an aside, I always grin when I see bidding like this- there are 3 different bidders; but my favorite is the guy who bid $800 as his max...

"$810??? No way, not for that car- I'm out!!" [:o)]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

DEEPNHOCK
10-13-2008, 07:41 AM
I dunno about that.
I'll toss a low bid sometimes just to get it on my watch (bidding)list.
Right now I can tell you my $822 bid wasn't enough;):D
Neat car...
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by bams50
(snip>As an aside, I always grin when I see bidding like this- there are 3 different bidders; but my favorite is the guy who bid $800 as his max...
"$810??? No way, not for that car- I'm out!!" [:o)]

barnlark
10-13-2008, 08:02 AM
7 supercharged Studebakers??? We have to know who this is. Wonder how many rare, spare engines and parts he has? I'm not a GT Hawk buyer anytime soon, but wow, that's a beautiful car.

JDP
10-13-2008, 09:15 AM
I love the car, but would have liked to have more time spent discussing the details of the car and less on the boiler plate history.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Dick Steinkamp
10-13-2008, 09:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by bams50
Well-presented, stunning car,



It's most likely a stunning car but I think a car this special could be presented better to show that it's a stunning car...

The pictures are too dark and too small to see any detail. Almost like they were taken with a film camera and then scanned in at the wrong settings...either that, or taken after sundown.

The description all runs together. If you want to use HTML, <br><br> will separate the paragraphs into a more readable ad.

The $30k BIN is going to scare off folks that might otherwise become serious bidders toward the end.

I agree with JP that there is too much history and not enough about the car itself.

OTOH, if some one is really interested, they will probably contact the seller for some decent pictures and more info.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

PackardV8
10-13-2008, 09:55 AM
FWIW, I've spoken privately with more than a couple of sellers urging more detail, less history on their listings. I've even offered suggestions as to what was missing. Their answer, condensed but common thread, "Studebaker guys are cheapskates. To get my price, I've got to pitch it to car enthusiasts who know little or nothing about Studebakers."

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

sweetolbob
10-13-2008, 09:57 AM
As Matt would say-Ooooh! "orange whirly thingy". I must admit that of all the hawks I've looked at on Ebay, This one really fits my eye. Just looks right to me IMHO. If I didn't have such a Jones for 53-54 Hardtops and, of course, $30K, This would be my pick to add to my stable. Bob;)

lstude
10-13-2008, 12:36 PM
I think this was the same Hawk that was for sale at Hershey in 2006. They were asking $47,900 back then.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/HersheyFleaMarket64Hawkwhite.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/HersheyFleaMarket200664GTHawk.jpg


Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/MyStudebakernobackgroundsm.jpg

JDP
10-13-2008, 12:49 PM
Could be, it was another of the 2nd place GT Hawks at Charlotte with my old Goldie GT. That was back when a GT could not win a first.:)

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

A1956GoldenHawk
10-13-2008, 01:49 PM
Guys, us Stude geezers, flippers, experts or whatever we want to consider ourselves ...please recognize WE are [u]NOT</u>[:0] the audience the SELLER is targeting!!!

The way the SELLER constructed the description and provided those "teaser" pics., he is trolling for an International Buyer (Collector/Investor).
Hint ...Hint "Sells to: Worldwide"

:D


The older I get ...the better I was!

lexmale43
10-13-2008, 01:55 PM
As an aside, I always grin when I see bidding like this- there are 3 different bidders; but my favorite is the guy who bid $800 as his max...





That was my bid and I did just want to get it on my list where I can watch it easily. I love it, but can't afford the end zone.

small part of Studebaker heaven in Central Kentucky

studegary
10-13-2008, 01:59 PM
It seems like if Mr. Walker was making up that expensive sign posted above, he could have gotten the correct spelling of Gran Turismo off the doors of the car.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

wpsrea
10-13-2008, 02:19 PM
I am not sure that is the same car. Check the interior colors on both. Is the same seller that had the R2 Cruiser on e-Bay a few years ago?

bams50
10-13-2008, 02:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by barnlark

7 supercharged Studebakers??? We have to know who this is. Wonder how many rare, spare engines and parts he has? I'm not a GT Hawk buyer anytime soon, but wow, that's a beautiful car.


While I don't know him personally, he has been here previously. It seems like he had a car on eBay awhile back that was being critiqued and he called them on it. I becme aware of him a few years back when he listed what I believe was the only known
real-deal 63 r2 4-Spd.package 4 DOOR Lark! Gold
w/red interior, and near perfect condition[:p]



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

Dan White
10-13-2008, 02:52 PM
I don' think this is the Hershey car. I have seen that car at least twice over the last 10+ years and I seem to remember it had a black interior, not red. The owner of this car surely would have added the fact that this car was the one preped for the NY Auto Show, I remember the build sheet of the Hershey car note that as well as the display plaque. Also, I think it was an automatic as well.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

studegary
10-13-2008, 03:51 PM
The Hershey car is a New Jersey car and the eBay car is from the midwest.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

lstude
10-13-2008, 04:12 PM
Yeah, I can see the difference now, especially the upholstery color!



Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/MyStudebakernobackgroundsm.jpg

53k
10-13-2008, 04:22 PM
Why bid to get it on your watch list? Just click on "Watch This Item in My Ebay" (right under the item number at the upper right).

Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine
1962 Gravely Model L (Studebaker-Packard serial plate)
1972 Gravely Model 430 (Studebaker name plate, Studebaker Onan engine)

PackardV8
10-13-2008, 07:32 PM
quote:Why bid to get it on your watch list?

FWIW, sellers are much more inclined to answer questions from bidders. Sometimes they don't get around to answering from general inquiries.

thnx, jack vines


PackardV8

bams50
10-14-2008, 12:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

[quote]Originally posted by lexmale43



As an aside, I always grin when I see bidding like this- there are 3 different bidders; but my favorite is the guy who bid $800 as his max...

That was my bid and I did just want to get it on my list where I can watch it easily. I love it, but can't afford the end zone.



If you click "watch this item" you'll get that, plus notification when it's about to end. And, it'll be in your page even after the listing ends. Works great!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

studegary
10-14-2008, 02:54 PM
Refer to thread "1964 R2" for additional information/explanation.
It looks like a fantastic car at the price it is currently bid to, but who knows where the bidding will end. If anyone is really interested in this Hawk, I would suggest using the BIN. This is just my opinion. I do not believe that I know the seller.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

JDP
10-14-2008, 03:49 PM
As I predicted in the other thread, the reserve is met, the BIN is gone and it's off to the races.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

mbstude
10-14-2008, 04:18 PM
I don't get it. Why bid $25K and not hit the BIN?

It'll be interesting to see where it ends up...


I'm a little anxious to see how 'Sid' does as well. ;)

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/quadraportle005.jpg

StudeRich
10-14-2008, 04:36 PM
You are absolutely correct Matt, I need to sign you up as my financial counselor I think you would do better than my Stock Broker is right now! Lol!

That would have been the smart move, if you are going to spend $25,000.00 why not buy the cheap insurance for only 5000.00 that it will not go higher? [?] Especially knowing that this is a pristine example and one of 25 built, and 9 known remaining Automobiles on the Planet! [:0]

This car with a four speed, is the absolute epitome of the best of the best Studebakers ever built and a very fine example, even though very poorly presented! [^]

I think I could live with it having an extra underhood decal and an ugly generic battery! :D [:o)]


quote:Originally posted by mbstude

I don't get it. Why bid $25K and not hit the BIN?

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

64Avanti
10-15-2008, 01:46 AM
This is a nice looking car. You can see that it has the sway bar on the rear and the badges you would expect on a Super Hawk. However it doesn't have disk brakes. I never heard of a Super Hawk or Lark without disk brakes!

Anyone know any better?

David L

StudeRich
10-15-2008, 02:09 AM
David, you are correct the Disc Brakes were part of the "Package" It would have to be a VERY, VERY Special order or modified after production! The production order would tell the story!

I remember one time I walked into the back shop at the Dealer in Inglewood, Calif. where my Dad worked in new car sales to see two '64 GT's side by side on two hoists with their brakes all apart, I asked Dad "what is going on?" He said one was sold, that was the color and options the customer wanted except the Disc Brakes, so they were having their complete brake systems switched. One was Disc Brake equipped and was sold after the factory shutdown, so another new '64 Hawk gave up it's Drum Brakes! [:0] I do not remember one being a Super Hawk, but it is possible. [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

JDP
10-15-2008, 08:34 AM
It may not be a package car, many owners call any Avanti powered Hawk a SuperHawk, the serial number will tell the story. I'm tired of defending the difference at any rate.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

BobPalma
10-15-2008, 08:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

I remember one time I walked into the back shop at the Dealer in Inglewood, Calif. where my Dad worked in new car sales to see two '64 GT's side by side on two hoists with their brakes all apart, I asked Dad "what is going on?" He said one was sold, that was the color and options the customer wanted except the Disc Brakes, so they were having their complete brake systems switched. One was Disc Brake equipped and was sold after the factory shutdown, so another new '64 Hawk gave up it's Drum Brakes! [:0] I do not remember one being a Super Hawk, but it is possible. [:0]

StudeRich


:) Wow, Rich; that certainly is believable, but what a major change-over to make the sale. Not unheard of, though, given the anxiety the company and dealers experienced while looking at thousands of unsold, South-Bend-built 1964 models sitting around after January 1, 1964, with showroom traffic dribbling in slower yet.

Maybe ten years ago, I ran into a fellow who had been the Sales Manager at Meridian Motors in Indianapolis. That had been the biggest Studebaker dealership in Indianapolis when it was Charlie Stuart Studebaker and then, after Charlie Stuart bailed, Studebaker of Indianapolis as a factory-owned store during 1963, introducing the 1964 models.

Sometime in calendar year 1964, I don't know when, Studebaker Corporation found a group of investors looking for a legal way to loose money (seriously) and sold them the franchise, whereupon it became Meridian Motors until the end of production. (The name comes from Meridian Street, U.S.31 in Indianapolis, where the facility was located at 923 North Meridian St. The building still stands and is Finishmasters Automotive Paint & Supply.)

Anyway, that previous Sales Manager at Meridian Motors told me that, by early summer 1964, Studebaker was offering stripped, base, South-Bend built, 6-cylinder Challenger 2-doors to the dealership for a little over $1,200 apiece! Remember, these were 1964 models that had been sitting unsold in South Bend lots for maybe six months by that time. I still have a Meridian Motors newspaper ad from that time, offering your choice of base 1964 Challenger 2-doors for $1,695 FOB Indianapolis!

George Krem and I have no idea if The Plain Brown Wrapper was one of the Challengers so offered, in that it was a V-8, but it was sitting on that lot in July 1964 when we first saw it, among three Challenger V-8 2-doors and a host of sixes. If we had only taken photos of that lot at the time! :DBP

JDP
10-15-2008, 09:36 AM
Odd, you bring that up. Sid had every package option except disk brakes and a P.O. swore he had the disks now on the installed by the dealer. Wouldn't it be a kick if Sid swapped brakes with the ebay car ?:) They were both west coast 64's.
Of course, everyone says the "dealer did it"

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

64Avanti
10-16-2008, 01:56 AM
The more I think about the more I have to believe that it came from the factory that way. I don't think anyone would go to the trouble to remove and replace all of the brake lines to the Hydrovac unit.

However this was a crazy way to build a car - all of the options to make it a package car except the disk brakes. I don't even think I have ever seen an R2 car that didn't have the disk brakes.

Of course I remember someone posting that they had removed the disk brakes on an Avanti and thought it stopped better with drums. When I was 16 back in 1967 I tried a full speed stop from about 105 mph with a 1960 Hawk. I didn't like the way the faded so I took the car home put it up on blocks and converted to 4 wheel disks! I never had a problem stopping after that.

If this car was a Chevy it would be worth $100K. We should count our blessings that our Studebakers are under priced, at least when we are buying.

David L

Dan White
10-16-2008, 08:23 AM
Perhaps a look at the build sheet would answer the question about the brakes. I would think the seller would have this document. Although crazy things as has been noted do happen. My R1 Hawk was ordered with all the package options you order separately, except the TT rear and of the radius rods, why would someone do that, crazy!

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

studegary
10-16-2008, 02:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich


I think I could live with it having an extra underhood decal and an ugly generic battery! :D [:o)]

StudeRich -


Rich, I noticed the "caution fan" decal right off and didn't mention it because I felt that was nit picking a nice car and I figured that if I bought the Hawk, it would be a simple thing to change.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

289cruiser
10-16-2008, 02:31 PM
Productions orders are NOT always CORRECT!

The Cruiser that I bought from JIm Ferner has the production order with the documentation that he gave me with the car & it stated "63 electric windows" which I along with many of you know that the production line on 10/17/63 DID NOT have Cruiser electric windows available.(everything else is correct)

Louis Moore

studegary
10-16-2008, 02:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by 289cruiser

Productions orders are NOT always CORRECT!

The Cruiser that I bought from JIm Ferner has the production order with the documentation that he gave me with the car & it stated "63 electric windows" which I along with many of you know that the production line on 10/17/63 DID NOT have Cruiser electric windows available.(everything else is correct)

Louis Moore


Your production order is probably correct. 1963 Cruisers did NOT have power windows as an option. The option that is listed on the production order is for the electric windshield washer set up that turns the wipers on when you set off the windshield washer.

EDIT: Your production order probably doesn't state "63 electric windows" as you quote, but probably as an abbreviation like "elect wind" referring to the windshield washer system.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

JDP
10-16-2008, 03:43 PM
Many folks confuse the shortened line for electric window washers for power windows.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Laemmle
10-17-2008, 10:20 PM
Why preach to the converted....he is looking to sell to others.




quote:Originally posted by JDP

I love the car, but would have liked to have more time spent discussing the details of the car and less on the boiler plate history.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Laemmle
10-17-2008, 10:20 PM
Why preach to the converted....he is looking to sell to others.




quote:Originally posted by JDP

I love the car, but would have liked to have more time spent discussing the details of the car and less on the boiler plate history.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Laemmle
10-17-2008, 10:25 PM
When Peter Crisitello hosted his zone meet in Clark, New Jersey about ten years ago this car was there....owned by a fellow named Myles.....Peters friend.




quote:Originally posted by lstude

I think this was the same Hawk that was for sale at Hershey in 2006. They were asking $47,900 back then.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/HersheyFleaMarket64Hawkwhite.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/HersheyFleaMarket200664GTHawk.jpg


Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/MyStudebakernobackgroundsm.jpg

JDP
10-18-2008, 02:17 PM
Looks like he made a deal and sold it. The auction ended early.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

JDP
10-18-2008, 02:17 PM
Looks like he made a deal and sold it. The auction ended early.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

StudeRich
10-18-2008, 03:01 PM
Laemmie; we have already determined that this is NOT the Hershey car! It had a Black interior, this one is Red!


quote:Originally posted by Dan White

I don' think this is the Hershey car. I have seen that car at least twice over the last 10+ years and I seem to remember it had a black interior, not red. The owner of this car surely would have added the fact that this car was the one preped for the NY Auto Show, I remember the build sheet of the Hershey car note that as well as the display plaque. Also, I think it was an automatic as well.
Dan White 64 R1 GT 64 R2 GT

[quote]When Peter Crisitello hosted his zone meet in Clark, New Jersey about ten years ago this car was there....owned by a fellow named Myles.....Peters friend.[quote/]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

StudeRich
10-18-2008, 03:01 PM
Laemmie; we have already determined that this is NOT the Hershey car! It had a Black interior, this one is Red!


quote:Originally posted by Dan White

I don' think this is the Hershey car. I have seen that car at least twice over the last 10+ years and I seem to remember it had a black interior, not red. The owner of this car surely would have added the fact that this car was the one preped for the NY Auto Show, I remember the build sheet of the Hershey car note that as well as the display plaque. Also, I think it was an automatic as well.
Dan White 64 R1 GT 64 R2 GT

[quote]When Peter Crisitello hosted his zone meet in Clark, New Jersey about ten years ago this car was there....owned by a fellow named Myles.....Peters friend.[quote/]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA