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View Full Version : Right car, right place, wrong timing ... d'oh!



jnewkirk77
10-11-2008, 12:12 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200262074219

If the moon, the stars and all the planets had properly aligned (and unfortunately they haven't), I'd have jumped all over this Lark, especially since it's only 20 minutes from my house, since I'm fairly sure I know (by casual acquaintance) who owned it, and I also know it hasn't been hurt. It does need some cleanup as the ad states, probably a paint job, tires and brakes, but when I last laid eyes upon it (which was a number of years ago, maybe the late '80s or early '90s, I wasn't of driving age yet and I'll be 31 in a couple of weeks), it was solid through and through. Can't say if the 17K miles is actual, but probably so.

I think it'll make someone a real good car, especially if a basic six-cylinder stickshift '61 Lark is what sets your heart on fire.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

EDIT - MORE INFO ADDED -- This Lark is, as I'd suspected, owned by Mr. Ken Shourds, who has for many years owned a Ford (now New Holland) farm equipment dealership on Old US 231 (visible from the new 231) north of Rockport, IN. I saw his '72 Continental Mark IV on eBay as well, and that's what fixed in my mind that the Lark really was his, because they were parked next to each other. Ken seldom sells anything of his own, vehicle-wise, so I'll have to try and get my Dad to investigate. He does business with the implement place pretty regularly in the course of his work.

StudeDave57
10-11-2008, 12:23 AM
It happens to all of us at some point at one time or another~
Sometimes it happens more then our fair share...

StudeDave '57 [8D]
San Diego, Ca. (for now...)
San Diego County SDC
www.studebakersandiego.com

'54 Commander Regal 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview 'Betsy' (she's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander DeLuxe 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion Custom 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

Part owner of the one and only
'55 PROTOTYPE panel van

jnewkirk77
10-11-2008, 12:30 AM
Yep ... consider me in the "more than our fair share" category ... I just hope the "little feller" goes to a good home, though. Maybe it'll stay close so I can at least keep tabs on it.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

bams50
10-11-2008, 05:08 AM
That car caught my eye until I saw it was a dealer selling it, then I dismissed it... not a thing wrong with being, or buying from, a dealer- it just means they'll likely expect top buck, and quite possibly much more than it's worth. Probably no bargain to be had on this one:(

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

bob40
10-11-2008, 06:06 AM
Interesting comment Bob,especially since you are a dealer yourself.
Common perception of who people will buy from

bams50
10-11-2008, 07:21 AM
There's a big difference from a modern car dealer (which I am) and a collector car dealer (which I am not). Modern dealers have plenty of competition with similar product in most every town, competing to buy their inventory from the same sources every day. This means the sales prices have to be competitive to survive, and the actual market value- both when they buy, and when they sell- is market-set, and obvious.

Collector car dealers have a much different situation. Their inventory is much rarer, not readily available on every street corner; so there's nothing to keep their prices realistic if they choose not to be. There is a much higher incidence of basing price on emotion and/or percieved value- either of which is frequently unrealistic. Remember the $1K-plus paid for an Avanti AM-FM radio? No tape, no CD, and ancient technology- and 5 times what one can get a modern unit for with 10 times more features; and quality. Same for B-J getting hundreds of thousands for a big block Camaro- really just a cheapo Chevy with cool sheet metal...

This applies in a few different ways: Folks get unrealistic ideas based on emotion or uneducated comparisons with B-J cars; or false hearsay info; or any number of factors not applicable to modern car sales. Same with dealers; they frequently base reserves on what they guess is the value, absent of hard data; or what they've promised their consignors.

So how does this apply to the subject situation? I've found that dealers expect top buck for their product. Not saying it's unjustified, but I've yet to see a classic car of ANY make that couldn't be duplicated for a much cheaper price through a private sale. Yes, there are exceptions- JP sells his for true market value, determined by eBay; the proof of that is the high percentage of sales made. Very rarely does he have one not meet reserve; but that's the product of knowing your specialty and market. Most collector car dealers don't operate that way. Not so critical for high-end cars, but it's a problem on the lower-priced stuff.

My comment speaks to this observation.

The current price is very good, but odds are very high that it will not meet reserve- leaving the dealer disappointed and unable to understand why such an extremely rare car didn't draw the 5 grand it's gotta be worth[:I]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

DEEPNHOCK
10-11-2008, 07:22 AM
Coulda shoulda woulda?
Interesting comments all around.
But....
Those that have prepared for 'that moment' can take advantage of 'that moment'.
Those that haven't can only watch from the sidelines.
This is true in most every venue and walk of life.
Not a slam... Just a comment.
(I'm mixed in there somewhere, too;))
Jeff[8D]

BobPalma
10-11-2008, 07:37 AM
:) Bams: Do you really think this person is that serious a dealer? I mean, a "real" dealer with an ounce of brains would have found a way to pull the snow tires off a supposedly 17,000-mile car, eh...and then at least position the brake pedal in the "up" position, while disclosing the brakes are down...eh?

Man, that car is a stripper. I'm straining to see an overdrive handle but can't find one. The only option may be a heater...and mandatory undercoat. With the brake pedal on the floor and reading between the lines of the other work needed, wouldn't it have to be selling for no more than the high hundreds to be worth going after in today's economy?[:0][V];) :DBP

jnewkirk77
10-11-2008, 09:07 AM
The agent handling this sale has sold a wide variety of stuff (not just cars), and if I had to guess, she's either related to Mr. Shourds, or one of his kids hired her. Probably the latter.

I'm figuring if one farmed out fixing the brakes and put decent radial rubber on it -- and let's just say that is all it needs mechanically -- just a quick semi-educated guess puts that work at about $700 around here, if you can find anyone willing to do it. I'd suggest it probably also needs a carb rebuild after sitting all these years, and I still haven't even approached the paint and interior yet.

Bob, it would not have been unusual for that car to have snow tires even with the low mileage. Roads in Spencer County used to turn to mush during the winter, and they stayed that way until well into springtime, making any kind of deep-tread snow tire a very desirable commodity just for getting around. Folks out in the rural areas (like Mr. Shourds) would sometimes leave them on longer, even year round in some cases, so long as they were not studded tires.

But since Mr. Shourds is well known to part with nothing without putting up a fight, I'd be completely unsurprised to find the original tires in the trunk or, at a minimum, somewhere on site.

Do I still think this car is worth buying? Yeah, I do, but I'd pay no more than $1,000, if I had it to spend. And that's only because I know who it belongs to.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

bams50
10-11-2008, 12:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) Bams: Do you really think this person is that serious a dealer? I mean, a "real" dealer with an ounce of brains would have found a way to pull the snow tires off a supposedly 17,000-mile car, eh...and then at least position the brake pedal in the "up" position, while disclosing the brakes are down...eh?



Well observed, and plays right into my theory. The seller is presenting herself as a dealer, or at least a business proprietor; but demonstrates very little marketing knowledge (at least where this car is concerned). We see this very often on eBay- folks trying to be in business selling items they have little knowledge of, or how to properly market. Odds are she's told the owner something along the lines of, "Wow, Studebaker! That's so rare, I never even heard of one before! If you put that on eBay it'll make you a fortune!" To which the owner rubs his chin and responds, "Hmmm... how much ya think she'll do??" And she responds (after a slight hesitation and stammer), "Oh, I'd say probably a few thou at least!!"

So, the owner, hearing what he likes and liking what he hears, thinks, "Dang, I knew that fella that only offered me nine hunnert was trying to rip me off!!" and promptly lists it with the professional eBay seller.

Next up: Owner's big disappointment, seller's face covered with egg[:I]

Sure, it's all just a theory; but more likely to be the case than not;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

jnewkirk77
10-11-2008, 01:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

Man, that car is a stripper. I'm straining to see an overdrive handle but can't find one. The only option may be a heater...and mandatory undercoat. With the brake pedal on the floor and reading between the lines of the other work needed, wouldn't it have to be selling for no more than the high hundreds to be worth going after in today's economy?[:0][V];) :DBP


I'm fairly sure it does not have OD, Bob. Until recent years, it wouldn't have made much sense in that part of southern Indiana. Very few places where one might've needed it, given all the hills and curves that conspire to keep one's speed well under 55 in the rural sections. Of course, with the new non-stop four-lane US 231 gradually snaking its way northward from Owensboro across the river through Spencer County to I-64 as part of Gov. Daniels' "Major Moves" initiative, OD would be very desirable.

Given what I've seen and what I remember of the car, I think it'll make it to around a grand. Will that meet the reserve? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

studegary
10-11-2008, 01:32 PM
In multiple places in the eBay listing, this Lark is referred to as a "Regal" model. This Lark is not a Regal, it is a low-line Deluxe model with the dual headlight option.

It is also the rare 1981 Studebaker (refer to the VIN listed) <G>>

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

jnewkirk77
10-11-2008, 02:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by studegary

It is also the rare 1981 Studebaker (refer to the VIN listed) <G>>


I was gonna leave that one alone, Gary, but I admit it gave me a pretty good chuckle! :D:D

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

jd-stude
10-11-2008, 06:54 PM
I bought a car from this seller and it was a very misrepresented vehicle. She may be relying on the owners description and doesn't know anything about cars or just leaves out the details about anything bad.

jnewkirk77
10-13-2008, 09:35 PM
I wondered about that, jd ... she's had a number of vehicles, most of which I have looked at (can't help it!). Her descriptions are lacking in solid information at best, and downright wrong at worst, based on what can be seen in the accompanying pictures.

But I will be the first to admit that I was wrong -- last time I checked, the bidding had topped $1100 ... maybe someone sees something in this that I wish was actually there.

Another thing: I had to zoom in on the picture of the rear, but the car has not been licensed since May of 1985 ... so it's been longer than "about 20 years" since it was last driven regularly. Try 23. :( In southern Indiana, you can almost watch a car deteriorate, what with the wild swings in temperature and humidity we get pretty much year round. If you need proof of that, look at the '72 Mark IV that is also up for bids right now. It's been covered under a carport for about two decades, and you can see what damage that did ... it's REALLY rusty, and while she claims it's just "surface rust," the spots where the rust has taken hold would indicate otherwise to me.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

sals54
10-13-2008, 10:27 PM
That car is like the car my sister had in high school. Hers was white. She drove the wheels off that car then sold it to my brother. He finally killed it and left it for the voltures. That was from '69 through '75.

sals54
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/sals54/NewSignature.jpg

barnlark
10-14-2008, 08:17 AM
Interesting car. I seriously doubt, especially by the wear on the steering wheel and look of the engine that the 17K is correct. $500-$600 max with the tail lights if the aren't cracked.

4961Studebaker
10-14-2008, 08:51 AM
A bit of a side note,

Did all the radio delete plates look like the one in the listing? Someone previously cut into mine to make way for the radio. The lark logo on there is cool.

ChopStu
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q14/kkad0711/IMG_5406-1.jpg

fargoguy
10-14-2008, 01:26 PM
That's the way the delete plate looks in mine.....
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b386/fargoguy66/1961%20lark/ESCAPEWARRANTY011.jpg

Evan Davis
Prairie Bulletin
Saskatchewan Chapter
Prince Albert, Sk
http://www.saskstudebaker.ca/Studebaker.html