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buckeye
11-13-2006, 09:13 PM
I have a 62 Champ 259 V8, AT, 3:31 rear end and would like to pull my 63 GT Hawk with a 2 wheel tow dolly. Is this advisable? Need your comments.

Guido
11-13-2006, 09:17 PM
There are certain topics that I defer to the experts on, towing with a dolly is one and used a rented Impala to haul Packard parts is the other. Our own BAMS 50 is "da man" to talk to on this.

My personal take is that I would want more weight and braking power than a Champ could provide as a tow vehicle.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
11-13-2006, 09:17 PM
There are certain topics that I defer to the experts on, towing with a dolly is one and used a rented Impala to haul Packard parts is the other. Our own BAMS 50 is "da man" to talk to on this.

My personal take is that I would want more weight and braking power than a Champ could provide as a tow vehicle.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

lstude
11-13-2006, 09:20 PM
I don't know about the Studebaker pickup, but I pulled my 52 Commander from Minnesota to Virginia with my 96 Dodge Ram. The only problem I had was when I got into a situation where I had to back up. It is impossible to back these things up with the car on it!
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/FamilyStudephotos005.jpg


Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

lstude
11-13-2006, 09:20 PM
I don't know about the Studebaker pickup, but I pulled my 52 Commander from Minnesota to Virginia with my 96 Dodge Ram. The only problem I had was when I got into a situation where I had to back up. It is impossible to back these things up with the car on it!
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/FamilyStudephotos005.jpg


Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

Swifster
11-13-2006, 09:35 PM
I pulled my Daytona from Lake Tahoe to Detroit, and the from Detroit to Central Florida. I used my Ford Ranger with a 3.0L V-6, auto and 3.73's. The truck came with a trans cooler and front disc brakes. U-Haul probably wouldn't agree with it as they advise that the towed car and dolly be no more the 75% of the weight of the towing vehicle.

I have exceeded this without a problem (towing a Dodge minivan). But here's few things I would suggest.

1) Pull the drive shaft on the Hawk.
2) Have a trans cooler on the Champ.
3) Keep speeds to no more than 55 MPH.
4) You have to make the decision on the braking system of the truck while going thru WV and VA.
5) That 3.31 will not make this a peppy package; leave lots of room when merging and for stopping.

Good luck.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

Swifster
11-13-2006, 09:35 PM
I pulled my Daytona from Lake Tahoe to Detroit, and the from Detroit to Central Florida. I used my Ford Ranger with a 3.0L V-6, auto and 3.73's. The truck came with a trans cooler and front disc brakes. U-Haul probably wouldn't agree with it as they advise that the towed car and dolly be no more the 75% of the weight of the towing vehicle.

I have exceeded this without a problem (towing a Dodge minivan). But here's few things I would suggest.

1) Pull the drive shaft on the Hawk.
2) Have a trans cooler on the Champ.
3) Keep speeds to no more than 55 MPH.
4) You have to make the decision on the braking system of the truck while going thru WV and VA.
5) That 3.31 will not make this a peppy package; leave lots of room when merging and for stopping.

Good luck.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

55s
11-13-2006, 09:53 PM
I just finished pulling a 1963 lark standard with a tow dolly behind my Villager van about 100 miles.

It was very easy and did not appear to tax my van at all, except on some very steep hills. I turned off the automatic's overdrive, so that it just used the three gears.

I highly recommend the use of wheel straps. If the Hawk is automatic, you will also have to disconnect the driveshaft.

Good luck. Paul

55s
11-13-2006, 09:53 PM
I just finished pulling a 1963 lark standard with a tow dolly behind my Villager van about 100 miles.

It was very easy and did not appear to tax my van at all, except on some very steep hills. I turned off the automatic's overdrive, so that it just used the three gears.

I highly recommend the use of wheel straps. If the Hawk is automatic, you will also have to disconnect the driveshaft.

Good luck. Paul

Guido
11-13-2006, 09:58 PM
A number of folks have responded about the use of tow dollies behind modern vehicles. The real question that Mel is asking is whether a Champ pickup is up to the challenge. Did anyone that went to Omaha possibly pull a trailer behind their Champ? If that can be done I think the dolly with its limited weight would then be doable.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
11-13-2006, 09:58 PM
A number of folks have responded about the use of tow dollies behind modern vehicles. The real question that Mel is asking is whether a Champ pickup is up to the challenge. Did anyone that went to Omaha possibly pull a trailer behind their Champ? If that can be done I think the dolly with its limited weight would then be doable.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

bams50
11-13-2006, 10:58 PM
I have logged somewhere around 50,000 miles towing with a tow dolly... but not having any Studebaker experience, I couldn't say how your Champ would do...

I will offer a few general tips:

1. Make sure your brakes are in no-expense-spared top condition!

2. ALWAYS leave a LOT longer stopping distance.

3. When you are towing, be patient on hills- don't floor it trying to maintain speed- get in the RH lane and let her seek her own speed going up at around 2/3-3/4 throttle.

4. I like the magnetic light sets attatched to the trunk lid better than the dolly lights.

5. Plan ahead as you approach stops- be sure you can drive in and out without backing!

6. Make turns as wide as possible.

7. Always try to tow with rear wheels down (driveshaft out if auto. trans)... if you have to tow with the front down it's impossible to completely lock the front wheels- even on newer cars with the locking columns... this means constant swaying, and a white-knuckle tow at 30-40 MPH...

8. Be sure to look at the rolling axle- make sure there's gear oil, and tires in good shape- plus a spare for it and, if possible, the dolly.

I'm a BIG fan of the dolly- hardly EVER use my trailers or rollback! I tow with a 3/4 ton Dodge Conversion van with the 318 engine- my trailers make it work hard due to the tongue weight- which you don't have with a dolly!

Good luck, and I'm betting if your Champ has all systems in good shape, it should handle the job just fine!



Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-13-2006, 10:58 PM
I have logged somewhere around 50,000 miles towing with a tow dolly... but not having any Studebaker experience, I couldn't say how your Champ would do...

I will offer a few general tips:

1. Make sure your brakes are in no-expense-spared top condition!

2. ALWAYS leave a LOT longer stopping distance.

3. When you are towing, be patient on hills- don't floor it trying to maintain speed- get in the RH lane and let her seek her own speed going up at around 2/3-3/4 throttle.

4. I like the magnetic light sets attatched to the trunk lid better than the dolly lights.

5. Plan ahead as you approach stops- be sure you can drive in and out without backing!

6. Make turns as wide as possible.

7. Always try to tow with rear wheels down (driveshaft out if auto. trans)... if you have to tow with the front down it's impossible to completely lock the front wheels- even on newer cars with the locking columns... this means constant swaying, and a white-knuckle tow at 30-40 MPH...

8. Be sure to look at the rolling axle- make sure there's gear oil, and tires in good shape- plus a spare for it and, if possible, the dolly.

I'm a BIG fan of the dolly- hardly EVER use my trailers or rollback! I tow with a 3/4 ton Dodge Conversion van with the 318 engine- my trailers make it work hard due to the tongue weight- which you don't have with a dolly!

Good luck, and I'm betting if your Champ has all systems in good shape, it should handle the job just fine!



Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-14-2006, 05:16 AM
An added point:

If you want to rent a dolly from U-Haul, know that their charts are very unrealistic! They'll take the tow vehicle and the subject vehicle and put them into a computer program, then tell you if your tow is "allowed"... they didn't want me to tow a Lincoln conv. without engine or trans. behind my 3/4 ton van! [}:)] The rental place said they'd just put a smaller car in the profile to make the contract doable... I preferred just buying my own dolly... who knows if your situation would pass muster with them- or if either vehicle would even be in their database! [:o)]

A one-ton truck behind a 4 cyl. S-10 p/u is not advisable; a Hawk behind a Champ certainly seems OK to me! The point is, use common sense in these matters, even if U-Haul doesn't! ;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-14-2006, 05:16 AM
An added point:

If you want to rent a dolly from U-Haul, know that their charts are very unrealistic! They'll take the tow vehicle and the subject vehicle and put them into a computer program, then tell you if your tow is "allowed"... they didn't want me to tow a Lincoln conv. without engine or trans. behind my 3/4 ton van! [}:)] The rental place said they'd just put a smaller car in the profile to make the contract doable... I preferred just buying my own dolly... who knows if your situation would pass muster with them- or if either vehicle would even be in their database! [:o)]

A one-ton truck behind a 4 cyl. S-10 p/u is not advisable; a Hawk behind a Champ certainly seems OK to me! The point is, use common sense in these matters, even if U-Haul doesn't! ;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

DEEPNHOCK
11-14-2006, 06:44 AM
I would advise against it.
Having had many miles experience flat towing with tow bars, towing with dollies, and towing with trailers, I would go get a trailer in a heartbeat. If you are trying to tow to save money, just have it delivered. You will be money ahead, insured, and your frayed nerves will thank you for it. I am sure that many will jump in and tell of their wonderful experiences towing with a dolly, but it is BOTH your Studebakers you are putting at risk. I wouldn't do anything to put my Studes' in harms way.
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by buckeye

I have a 62 Champ 259 V8, AT, 3:31 rear end and would like to pull my 63 GT Hawk with a 2 wheel tow dolly. Is this advisable? Need your comments.

DEEPNHOCK
11-14-2006, 06:44 AM
I would advise against it.
Having had many miles experience flat towing with tow bars, towing with dollies, and towing with trailers, I would go get a trailer in a heartbeat. If you are trying to tow to save money, just have it delivered. You will be money ahead, insured, and your frayed nerves will thank you for it. I am sure that many will jump in and tell of their wonderful experiences towing with a dolly, but it is BOTH your Studebakers you are putting at risk. I wouldn't do anything to put my Studes' in harms way.
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by buckeye

I have a 62 Champ 259 V8, AT, 3:31 rear end and would like to pull my 63 GT Hawk with a 2 wheel tow dolly. Is this advisable? Need your comments.

CHAMP
11-14-2006, 07:41 AM
I could tell a few horror stories from back in my racing days but I don't want to scare you. I would advise to stop often to check to make sure everything is secure and check the tires for heat and air pressure.

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

CHAMP
11-14-2006, 07:41 AM
I could tell a few horror stories from back in my racing days but I don't want to scare you. I would advise to stop often to check to make sure everything is secure and check the tires for heat and air pressure.

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

Jeff_H
11-14-2006, 07:56 AM
I've used a tow dolly several times, mostly behind my old '87 Ranger with 2.9 V6, 5spd, and 3.45 gears. Just some observations:

1st time it was a rented unit. The hitch was slightly bent and the dolly would fishtail when it was empty on the way to get the car I was going to tow. Seemed OK under load but the Ranger was pretty well maxed out at 55-60mph. I later bought my own unit and never had that problem. I found that if I went over 60 on the flats where the Ranger could manage it, it was not heavy enough to keep the load from swaying a little. A full size pickup probably would be a lot better.

As mentioned already, its impossible to back up more than a foot or so and forget any "tight" turns. You need to scope out gas stations carefully before pulling in or it can be a bear to get back out. Not much different than with a full trailer but at least you can back up the trailer....

In 2001 I took my '53 to Redwing MN for display as "work in progress" at the Int'l Meet that year via dolly since it was not yet running or complete. The car would self-steer too much and I was worried the rocker panels would hit the fenders on the dolly in turns so I made a "locking device" to keep the car steering from turning. Basically it was a angle iron with a U bolt that clamped around the end of the steering pitman arm and then bolted to the frame. The dolly's usually have a pivot in them to allow some steering swivel but not too much. You may have that same problem with the hawk.

I've now got a real trailer and full size truck and its a lot less stress to tow. On the other hand, trailer costs more and takes up a lot more space in the yard when not in use compared to the dolly.

Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop

Jeff_H
11-14-2006, 07:56 AM
I've used a tow dolly several times, mostly behind my old '87 Ranger with 2.9 V6, 5spd, and 3.45 gears. Just some observations:

1st time it was a rented unit. The hitch was slightly bent and the dolly would fishtail when it was empty on the way to get the car I was going to tow. Seemed OK under load but the Ranger was pretty well maxed out at 55-60mph. I later bought my own unit and never had that problem. I found that if I went over 60 on the flats where the Ranger could manage it, it was not heavy enough to keep the load from swaying a little. A full size pickup probably would be a lot better.

As mentioned already, its impossible to back up more than a foot or so and forget any "tight" turns. You need to scope out gas stations carefully before pulling in or it can be a bear to get back out. Not much different than with a full trailer but at least you can back up the trailer....

In 2001 I took my '53 to Redwing MN for display as "work in progress" at the Int'l Meet that year via dolly since it was not yet running or complete. The car would self-steer too much and I was worried the rocker panels would hit the fenders on the dolly in turns so I made a "locking device" to keep the car steering from turning. Basically it was a angle iron with a U bolt that clamped around the end of the steering pitman arm and then bolted to the frame. The dolly's usually have a pivot in them to allow some steering swivel but not too much. You may have that same problem with the hawk.

I've now got a real trailer and full size truck and its a lot less stress to tow. On the other hand, trailer costs more and takes up a lot more space in the yard when not in use compared to the dolly.

Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop

Guido
11-14-2006, 11:29 AM
After starting with a 16 foot equipment trailer almost 20 years ago (I still have it), I later moved up to a 28 foot dual tandem gooseneck. It would hold a load (3 tractors at once) but also weighed 6500 pounds empty so it saw limited use. I sold it and now own an International rollback. I can use it to move most anything I have too and it also has a nice radio out of a BMW and A/C too. Plus my wife never has to help unload anymore. :D

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
11-14-2006, 11:29 AM
After starting with a 16 foot equipment trailer almost 20 years ago (I still have it), I later moved up to a 28 foot dual tandem gooseneck. It would hold a load (3 tractors at once) but also weighed 6500 pounds empty so it saw limited use. I sold it and now own an International rollback. I can use it to move most anything I have too and it also has a nice radio out of a BMW and A/C too. Plus my wife never has to help unload anymore. :D

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

55s
11-14-2006, 11:37 AM
Studebaker experience (bear with me):

I have both a tow dolly and a trailer. I have used both, but I think I prefer the dolly, because it is lighter and can be towed behind a lighter vehicle. (I use a Villager). The dolly has a swivel and straps. (Make sure the tires on the ground are not rotten!)

I also have a 4.3 litre GM Astro van that I use for pulling a car trailer. Aside from eating through ignition parts (expensive), this van setup will tow just about any car with very little trouble on a trailer. This trailer setup is too heavy for the Villager van. The advantage with the trailer is that you don't have to worry about the condition of the tires, brakes, driveline or any moving parts.

I also have a '62 3 speed, 6 cylinder Champ pickup, that I have used to pull a stock car trailer. It pulled the trailer with some success, with a little difficulty. I made sure there was tons of stopping room. Corners seemed to come up fast, and the unbraked trailer seemed to overpower the six cylinder brakes if not careful. I made several trips with this setup and so did my dad.

My dad used his V8 Hawk to haul anything on a trailer. It performed very well. The tow vehicle was eventually replaced with a V8 Cutlass.

So, my feeling is that a Studebaker V8 pickup would easily handle a trailer, with the possible exception of braking power. You probably only have one braking system on your Champ, not a split braking system. Make sure the brakes are perfect. In addition, many stock car trailers now have adjustable brakes.

In the past, I believe this would be an easy tow. If your equipment is good, there should be no reason why you can't do it now.

Good luck, Paul

55s
11-14-2006, 11:37 AM
Studebaker experience (bear with me):

I have both a tow dolly and a trailer. I have used both, but I think I prefer the dolly, because it is lighter and can be towed behind a lighter vehicle. (I use a Villager). The dolly has a swivel and straps. (Make sure the tires on the ground are not rotten!)

I also have a 4.3 litre GM Astro van that I use for pulling a car trailer. Aside from eating through ignition parts (expensive), this van setup will tow just about any car with very little trouble on a trailer. This trailer setup is too heavy for the Villager van. The advantage with the trailer is that you don't have to worry about the condition of the tires, brakes, driveline or any moving parts.

I also have a '62 3 speed, 6 cylinder Champ pickup, that I have used to pull a stock car trailer. It pulled the trailer with some success, with a little difficulty. I made sure there was tons of stopping room. Corners seemed to come up fast, and the unbraked trailer seemed to overpower the six cylinder brakes if not careful. I made several trips with this setup and so did my dad.

My dad used his V8 Hawk to haul anything on a trailer. It performed very well. The tow vehicle was eventually replaced with a V8 Cutlass.

So, my feeling is that a Studebaker V8 pickup would easily handle a trailer, with the possible exception of braking power. You probably only have one braking system on your Champ, not a split braking system. Make sure the brakes are perfect. In addition, many stock car trailers now have adjustable brakes.

In the past, I believe this would be an easy tow. If your equipment is good, there should be no reason why you can't do it now.

Good luck, Paul

Guido
11-14-2006, 11:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by 55s
I believe this would be an easy tow.
I normally find that towing is not the problem, braking is. I never understand why someone can't see a 2 ton truck coming and then wait until you are almost upon them before deciding to sloooowly pull out. Both of my IH trucks are under CDL and have disc brakes all the way around. Just cost me $238 for a rear caliper and a set of pads, but I know when I hit the pedal it will stop.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
11-14-2006, 11:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by 55s
I believe this would be an easy tow.
I normally find that towing is not the problem, braking is. I never understand why someone can't see a 2 ton truck coming and then wait until you are almost upon them before deciding to sloooowly pull out. Both of my IH trucks are under CDL and have disc brakes all the way around. Just cost me $238 for a rear caliper and a set of pads, but I know when I hit the pedal it will stop.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

bams50
11-14-2006, 03:28 PM
The only advantage to a trailer is that neither axle of the towed vehicle needs attention... trailers are heavier, which means more gas used; but mostly the problem is tongue weight!! That means if you don't have heavy-duty rear suspension you will have the rear bumper dragging [xx(]... you can't move the car back to lessen tongue weight, b/cthat will make the trailer fish-tail like crazy![:0] MUCH more dangerous than a dolly, which in effect is a deluxe tow bar- VERY secure connection between the vehicles, easy to load and unload, and lightweight- which of course is easier to turn and stop...

Frankly I can't see how anyone could ever recommend a trailer over a dolly in your situation! If you have a heavy-duty, full-size truck with a big engine, heavy-duty suspension, class-3 hitch, and electric trailer brakes, then a trailer's a good choice. In any other case, in my extensive experience, the dolly's the only logical choice!! [^]

No offense intended, Jeff; just have to respectfully DISAGREE on this one! ;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-14-2006, 03:28 PM
The only advantage to a trailer is that neither axle of the towed vehicle needs attention... trailers are heavier, which means more gas used; but mostly the problem is tongue weight!! That means if you don't have heavy-duty rear suspension you will have the rear bumper dragging [xx(]... you can't move the car back to lessen tongue weight, b/cthat will make the trailer fish-tail like crazy![:0] MUCH more dangerous than a dolly, which in effect is a deluxe tow bar- VERY secure connection between the vehicles, easy to load and unload, and lightweight- which of course is easier to turn and stop...

Frankly I can't see how anyone could ever recommend a trailer over a dolly in your situation! If you have a heavy-duty, full-size truck with a big engine, heavy-duty suspension, class-3 hitch, and electric trailer brakes, then a trailer's a good choice. In any other case, in my extensive experience, the dolly's the only logical choice!! [^]

No offense intended, Jeff; just have to respectfully DISAGREE on this one! ;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

53k
11-14-2006, 05:23 PM
Some years ago I rented a dolly and pulled a '56 Skyhawk 400 miles behind my full size Dodge van with a 360. Immediately after that I bought a car trailer. 'Nuff said.
ANYone who pulls a dead tow with a vehicle lighter than the tow is asking to have the tow lead it down the road when it is least expected!

[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/64%20Daytona%20Convertible/Copy%20of%20DaytonaConvert7-20-06.JPG[/img=right]

Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

53k
11-14-2006, 05:23 PM
Some years ago I rented a dolly and pulled a '56 Skyhawk 400 miles behind my full size Dodge van with a 360. Immediately after that I bought a car trailer. 'Nuff said.
ANYone who pulls a dead tow with a vehicle lighter than the tow is asking to have the tow lead it down the road when it is least expected!

[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/64%20Daytona%20Convertible/Copy%20of%20DaytonaConvert7-20-06.JPG[/img=right]

Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

DEEPNHOCK
11-14-2006, 05:45 PM
That we have...
And it wasn't dry either....
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/CharlotteDayTwo71.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/StudeDragsatCharlotte200410.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/StudeDragsatCharlotte200428.jpg
(note: I am NOT flippin' off the photographer... That is a 'thumbs up';))
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Studedude
Horsefeathers! I've traveled with ya! :D


quote:I wouldn't do anything to put my Studes' in harms way.
Jeff[8D]


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
11-14-2006, 05:45 PM
That we have...
And it wasn't dry either....
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/CharlotteDayTwo71.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/StudeDragsatCharlotte200410.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/StudeDragsatCharlotte200428.jpg
(note: I am NOT flippin' off the photographer... That is a 'thumbs up';))
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Studedude
Horsefeathers! I've traveled with ya! :D


quote:I wouldn't do anything to put my Studes' in harms way.
Jeff[8D]


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
11-14-2006, 05:49 PM
No offense taken.
I'll stick with a trailer any old day.
Beats the rope in a pipe I used to tow Stude's home with;)
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by bams50

The only advantage to a trailer is that neither axle of the towed vehicle needs attention... trailers are heavier, which means more gas used; but mostly the problem is tongue weight!! That means if you don't have heavy-duty rear suspension you will have the rear bumper dragging [xx(]... you can't move the car back to lessen tongue weight, b/cthat will make the trailer fish-tail like crazy![:0] MUCH more dangerous than a dolly, which in effect is a deluxe tow bar- VERY secure connection between the vehicles, easy to load and unload, and lightweight- which of course is easier to turn and stop...
Frankly I can't see how anyone could ever recommend a trailer over a dolly in your situation! If you have a heavy-duty, full-size truck with a big engine, heavy-duty suspension, class-3 hitch, and electric trailer brakes, then a trailer's a good choice. In any other case, in my extensive experience, the dolly's the only logical choice!! [^]
No offense intended, Jeff; just have to respectfully DISAGREE on this one! ;)
Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
11-14-2006, 05:49 PM
No offense taken.
I'll stick with a trailer any old day.
Beats the rope in a pipe I used to tow Stude's home with;)
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by bams50

The only advantage to a trailer is that neither axle of the towed vehicle needs attention... trailers are heavier, which means more gas used; but mostly the problem is tongue weight!! That means if you don't have heavy-duty rear suspension you will have the rear bumper dragging [xx(]... you can't move the car back to lessen tongue weight, b/cthat will make the trailer fish-tail like crazy![:0] MUCH more dangerous than a dolly, which in effect is a deluxe tow bar- VERY secure connection between the vehicles, easy to load and unload, and lightweight- which of course is easier to turn and stop...
Frankly I can't see how anyone could ever recommend a trailer over a dolly in your situation! If you have a heavy-duty, full-size truck with a big engine, heavy-duty suspension, class-3 hitch, and electric trailer brakes, then a trailer's a good choice. In any other case, in my extensive experience, the dolly's the only logical choice!! [^]
No offense intended, Jeff; just have to respectfully DISAGREE on this one! ;)
Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

bams50
11-14-2006, 06:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude
[br Tongue weight can be adjusted by moving the car either way. It's just a matter of finding the sweet spot. Too far forward=too much tongue weight. Too far back, too little... and you will experience "fish tailing." You want some tongue weight, beyond where the truck normally rides without a trailer... but, very little. When I'm in a tow vehicle I'm not familiar with, I measure the bumper height empty, and allow for a 2"-3" "squat" once the car is loaded.



I agree with this- except depending on the truck, trailer, and cargo involved, it can be almost impossible to find that "sweet spot" [}:)]

Getting back to the original question- I still would not recommend a trailer with a light-duty truck like a Champ ;) Talk about an impossible-to-find sweet spot... [B)]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-14-2006, 06:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude
[br Tongue weight can be adjusted by moving the car either way. It's just a matter of finding the sweet spot. Too far forward=too much tongue weight. Too far back, too little... and you will experience "fish tailing." You want some tongue weight, beyond where the truck normally rides without a trailer... but, very little. When I'm in a tow vehicle I'm not familiar with, I measure the bumper height empty, and allow for a 2"-3" "squat" once the car is loaded.



I agree with this- except depending on the truck, trailer, and cargo involved, it can be almost impossible to find that "sweet spot" [}:)]

Getting back to the original question- I still would not recommend a trailer with a light-duty truck like a Champ ;) Talk about an impossible-to-find sweet spot... [B)]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-14-2006, 06:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

No offense taken.
I'll stick with a trailer any old day.
Beats the rope in a pipe I used to tow Stude's home with;)
Jeff[8D]



WOW, you had a pipe?

SWEEEET.......

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-14-2006, 06:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

No offense taken.
I'll stick with a trailer any old day.
Beats the rope in a pipe I used to tow Stude's home with;)
Jeff[8D]



WOW, you had a pipe?

SWEEEET.......

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Dick Steinkamp
11-14-2006, 06:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude
I have done it all; dollies, brakeless trailers, and trailers with brakes. I would use nothing but a trailer with brakes!


I've done all three also. You are dodging bullets with the first two. A trailer with 4 wheel brakes and a break away system and proper tow vehicle is the way to go. There is no way a tow dolly is going to stop when you need it to most. You certaily may "get away" with the use of a tow dolly" (like I did), but is it really worth rolling the dice?



http://static.flickr.com/100/292046667_cc1661ba0e_m.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
11-14-2006, 06:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude
I have done it all; dollies, brakeless trailers, and trailers with brakes. I would use nothing but a trailer with brakes!


I've done all three also. You are dodging bullets with the first two. A trailer with 4 wheel brakes and a break away system and proper tow vehicle is the way to go. There is no way a tow dolly is going to stop when you need it to most. You certaily may "get away" with the use of a tow dolly" (like I did), but is it really worth rolling the dice?



http://static.flickr.com/100/292046667_cc1661ba0e_m.jpg

Guido
11-14-2006, 07:30 PM
quote: It's just a matter of finding the sweet spot. Too far forward=too much tongue weight. Too far back, too little... and you will experience "fish tailing."
Dave,

You are correct. About 10 years ago when I was still heavily into tractors, I was buying all the Oliver OC-46 crawlers I could find. I normally used a 16 foot trailer behind my International flatbed, but in this instance the rig would not navigate the seller's driveway.

I ended up using my 4 wheel drive F-250. I was on the edge of being safe as the crawler and trailer were about 10,000 pounds. It was mostly interstate driving, but once I got on the highway and above 55 the trailer fishtailed horribly. I pulled over and moved it 6 inches forward and dogged it down and went 65 the whole way home with no problem.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
11-14-2006, 07:30 PM
quote: It's just a matter of finding the sweet spot. Too far forward=too much tongue weight. Too far back, too little... and you will experience "fish tailing."
Dave,

You are correct. About 10 years ago when I was still heavily into tractors, I was buying all the Oliver OC-46 crawlers I could find. I normally used a 16 foot trailer behind my International flatbed, but in this instance the rig would not navigate the seller's driveway.

I ended up using my 4 wheel drive F-250. I was on the edge of being safe as the crawler and trailer were about 10,000 pounds. It was mostly interstate driving, but once I got on the highway and above 55 the trailer fishtailed horribly. I pulled over and moved it 6 inches forward and dogged it down and went 65 the whole way home with no problem.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

dictator27
11-14-2006, 07:48 PM
Sorry guys but I couldn't help throwing this in here. Picture this: a 1938 Cadillac 7 passenger limousine being towbarred up a 1 mile long 10% gradient by a 1951 Nash Rambler. I was actually a party to this madness many years ago. The owner of the Caddy - and the Nash -had enlisted me to help by pushing this contrivance up the hill with my 54 Commander h/top! I was also supposed to supply extra braking effort going down hill by virtue of a short chain between my car and the Caddy!! This was done on a major 4 lane highway, too. I am much older and a whole lot wiser(I hope).[xx(]

dictator27
11-14-2006, 07:48 PM
Sorry guys but I couldn't help throwing this in here. Picture this: a 1938 Cadillac 7 passenger limousine being towbarred up a 1 mile long 10% gradient by a 1951 Nash Rambler. I was actually a party to this madness many years ago. The owner of the Caddy - and the Nash -had enlisted me to help by pushing this contrivance up the hill with my 54 Commander h/top! I was also supposed to supply extra braking effort going down hill by virtue of a short chain between my car and the Caddy!! This was done on a major 4 lane highway, too. I am much older and a whole lot wiser(I hope).[xx(]

dictator27
11-14-2006, 07:49 PM
Sorry guys but I couldn't help throwing this in here. Picture this: a 1938 Cadillac 7 passenger limousine being towbarred up a 1 mile long 10% gradient by a 1951 Nash Rambler. I was actually a party to this madness many years ago. The owner of the Caddy - and the Nash -had enlisted me to help by pushing this contrivance up the hill with my 54 Commander h/top! I was also supposed to supply extra braking effort going down hill by virtue of a short chain between my car and the Caddy!! This was done on a major 4 lane highway, too. I am much older and a whole lot wiser(I hope).[xx(]

dictator27
11-14-2006, 07:49 PM
Sorry guys but I couldn't help throwing this in here. Picture this: a 1938 Cadillac 7 passenger limousine being towbarred up a 1 mile long 10% gradient by a 1951 Nash Rambler. I was actually a party to this madness many years ago. The owner of the Caddy - and the Nash -had enlisted me to help by pushing this contrivance up the hill with my 54 Commander h/top! I was also supposed to supply extra braking effort going down hill by virtue of a short chain between my car and the Caddy!! This was done on a major 4 lane highway, too. I am much older and a whole lot wiser(I hope).[xx(]

Dick Steinkamp
11-14-2006, 07:55 PM
quote:Originally posted by dictator27

Sorry guys but I couldn't help throwing this in here. Picture this: a 1938 Cadillac 7 passenger limousine being towbarred up a 1 mile long 10% gradient by a 1951 Nash Rambler. I was actually a party to this madness many years ago. The owner of the Caddy - and the Nash -had enlisted me to help by pushing this contrivance up the hill with my 54 Commander h/top! I was also supposed to supply extra braking effort going down hill by virtue of a short chain between my car and the Caddy!! This was done on a major 4 lane highway, too. I am much older and a whole lot wiser(I hope).[xx(]


Yikes [:0]



http://static.flickr.com/100/292046667_cc1661ba0e_m.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
11-14-2006, 07:55 PM
quote:Originally posted by dictator27

Sorry guys but I couldn't help throwing this in here. Picture this: a 1938 Cadillac 7 passenger limousine being towbarred up a 1 mile long 10% gradient by a 1951 Nash Rambler. I was actually a party to this madness many years ago. The owner of the Caddy - and the Nash -had enlisted me to help by pushing this contrivance up the hill with my 54 Commander h/top! I was also supposed to supply extra braking effort going down hill by virtue of a short chain between my car and the Caddy!! This was done on a major 4 lane highway, too. I am much older and a whole lot wiser(I hope).[xx(]


Yikes [:0]



http://static.flickr.com/100/292046667_cc1661ba0e_m.jpg

bams50
11-14-2006, 07:56 PM
Heck, I've done stuff at least that crazy...

The safety and predictability of the tow dolly kinda takes the fun out of things....[:p];)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-14-2006, 07:56 PM
Heck, I've done stuff at least that crazy...

The safety and predictability of the tow dolly kinda takes the fun out of things....[:p];)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Guido
11-14-2006, 08:09 PM
Back in the late '70's I had a '62 Willys 4 wheel drive station wagon. It only had 42K on it when I bought it, but all those miles were on Nantucket :(. It had some rust, but not as bad as some Studes I had. At some point I added a $100 tow bar from Sears and pulled it with my '72 Dodge W-300 Power Wagon.

I had a couple of scares with it. The first time I looked in the mirror to see it tracking in the breakdown lane. Seems the bumper had been pulled loose. The second time I was pulling it in a rainstorm and had to slam on brakes. The Dodge ended up at a 90 degree angle to the road while the Jeep was still in the travel lane. This was on a busy 4 lane divided highway, it took me a couple of minutes to get things sorted out by unhooking, getting back on the road and then hitching up the tow bar again.



http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
11-14-2006, 08:09 PM
Back in the late '70's I had a '62 Willys 4 wheel drive station wagon. It only had 42K on it when I bought it, but all those miles were on Nantucket :(. It had some rust, but not as bad as some Studes I had. At some point I added a $100 tow bar from Sears and pulled it with my '72 Dodge W-300 Power Wagon.

I had a couple of scares with it. The first time I looked in the mirror to see it tracking in the breakdown lane. Seems the bumper had been pulled loose. The second time I was pulling it in a rainstorm and had to slam on brakes. The Dodge ended up at a 90 degree angle to the road while the Jeep was still in the travel lane. This was on a busy 4 lane divided highway, it took me a couple of minutes to get things sorted out by unhooking, getting back on the road and then hitching up the tow bar again.



http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

bams50
11-14-2006, 08:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude

Whatever you decide to do, take pictures, and let us know how it goes!



I'll second that!!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
11-14-2006, 08:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude

Whatever you decide to do, take pictures, and let us know how it goes!



I'll second that!!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Dick Steinkamp
11-14-2006, 08:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude
Just remember, at (more often than not very critical) times, the ability to stop, steer, or reverse can actually be more important than moving forward!


Words to live by [^]


http://static.flickr.com/100/292046667_cc1661ba0e_m.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
11-14-2006, 08:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude
Just remember, at (more often than not very critical) times, the ability to stop, steer, or reverse can actually be more important than moving forward!


Words to live by [^]


http://static.flickr.com/100/292046667_cc1661ba0e_m.jpg

lstude
11-14-2006, 08:51 PM
quote:Just remember, at (more often than not very critical) times, the ability to stop, steer, or reverse can actually be more important than moving forward!

I had a scarry experience like the one Gary and some others had back in the 70s. I bought some land, in the mountains, that had an abandoned Dodge truck on it. I had a fork lift because I was building a log cabin. I loaded the truck onto a hay wagon and hooked it to my 47 Willys Jeep. I was at the top of a mountain and I wanted to take it to a friend's farm at the bottom of the mountain. As I started going down the winding, gravel road the wagon kept pushing me faster and faster. When I hit the brakes, the Jeep would try to jack knife. I just held on and steered and prayed and somehow I got to the bottom. The road came to a hard surface road that was perpendicular. By then, I couldn't stop. Thankfully no one was coming and I crossed the road and into a cow pasture taking the fence with me. Of course I was young and stupid then.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/MeDebbieinJeep.jpg


Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

lstude
11-14-2006, 08:51 PM
quote:Just remember, at (more often than not very critical) times, the ability to stop, steer, or reverse can actually be more important than moving forward!

I had a scarry experience like the one Gary and some others had back in the 70s. I bought some land, in the mountains, that had an abandoned Dodge truck on it. I had a fork lift because I was building a log cabin. I loaded the truck onto a hay wagon and hooked it to my 47 Willys Jeep. I was at the top of a mountain and I wanted to take it to a friend's farm at the bottom of the mountain. As I started going down the winding, gravel road the wagon kept pushing me faster and faster. When I hit the brakes, the Jeep would try to jack knife. I just held on and steered and prayed and somehow I got to the bottom. The road came to a hard surface road that was perpendicular. By then, I couldn't stop. Thankfully no one was coming and I crossed the road and into a cow pasture taking the fence with me. Of course I was young and stupid then.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/MeDebbieinJeep.jpg


Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/Mein64Daytonasm.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/lstude/52inyardsm-1.jpg

buckeye
11-14-2006, 11:15 PM
Thanks guys for all the comments. This got everyone thinking. I live 6 miles off the turnpike near Toledo and I was thinking I may want to take both vehicles to South Bend next year for the International. I just put Turner disc brakes on the front of the Champ and both vehicles have new radial tires. 95% of the drive would be on the turnpike which has about a 2 foot rise or drop all the way to South Bend. I may rent a dolly for a few hours and test it out before I make a decision.

buckeye
11-14-2006, 11:15 PM
Thanks guys for all the comments. This got everyone thinking. I live 6 miles off the turnpike near Toledo and I was thinking I may want to take both vehicles to South Bend next year for the International. I just put Turner disc brakes on the front of the Champ and both vehicles have new radial tires. 95% of the drive would be on the turnpike which has about a 2 foot rise or drop all the way to South Bend. I may rent a dolly for a few hours and test it out before I make a decision.

imported_n/a
11-15-2006, 05:15 PM
I have an opinion on this topic--can you believe that?:)I have trailered, towbar-ed, and dollied vehicles. Rule one is that the tow vehicle needs to be in top condition, and larger than the vehicle being towed. #2 Lets rule out the towbar. I have towed quite a bit with a bar, but under the best of circumstances, handling of the tow vehicle is compromised. Also, it is a given that Studes don't lend themselves to being towbar-ed, due to their steering and suspension geometry. #3 if the chassis of the vehicle being towed is sound enough(tires, wheel bearings, no drivehaft)for the rear wheels to roll without problems , then definitely opt for the tow dolly. Trailers are the third choice. They add considerable weight, and downforce and drawn weight to the hitch on the town vehicle. Takes a lot out of your braking(even with trailer brakes) and handling, and for this purpose, a 1-ton dually is best. You'll notice that the Giant Motorhomes camping out at wal-mart usually use the tow dolly. I know, I know--one justification is that they are pulling late-model front-drive cars. But, the dolly is still your best bet for the long haul. That is, unless you can afford alternate #4, a rollback and the fuel costs to run it. Good Luck.

imported_n/a
11-15-2006, 05:15 PM
I have an opinion on this topic--can you believe that?:)I have trailered, towbar-ed, and dollied vehicles. Rule one is that the tow vehicle needs to be in top condition, and larger than the vehicle being towed. #2 Lets rule out the towbar. I have towed quite a bit with a bar, but under the best of circumstances, handling of the tow vehicle is compromised. Also, it is a given that Studes don't lend themselves to being towbar-ed, due to their steering and suspension geometry. #3 if the chassis of the vehicle being towed is sound enough(tires, wheel bearings, no drivehaft)for the rear wheels to roll without problems , then definitely opt for the tow dolly. Trailers are the third choice. They add considerable weight, and downforce and drawn weight to the hitch on the town vehicle. Takes a lot out of your braking(even with trailer brakes) and handling, and for this purpose, a 1-ton dually is best. You'll notice that the Giant Motorhomes camping out at wal-mart usually use the tow dolly. I know, I know--one justification is that they are pulling late-model front-drive cars. But, the dolly is still your best bet for the long haul. That is, unless you can afford alternate #4, a rollback and the fuel costs to run it. Good Luck.

Dick Steinkamp
11-15-2006, 06:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by Packebaker
You'll notice that the Giant Motorhomes camping out at wal-mart usually use the tow dolly.


Yes, but...the vehicle being towed is generally equipped with suplemental brakes.

http://www.koa.com/familyzone/camping101/articles/rvmaintenance_521.htm

http://www.hotrodparts.com/rv/mg-brakes.htm

I've used a tow dolly (with no brakes) with no problems what so ever...but I'll take my flat bed car carrier trailer with 4 wheel brakes, Tekonsha Prodigy brake controller, and full size pick up tow vehicle in an emergency stoping situation over the tow dolly...but that's just me.

http://static.flickr.com/100/292046667_cc1661ba0e_m.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
11-15-2006, 06:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by Packebaker
You'll notice that the Giant Motorhomes camping out at wal-mart usually use the tow dolly.


Yes, but...the vehicle being towed is generally equipped with suplemental brakes.

http://www.koa.com/familyzone/camping101/articles/rvmaintenance_521.htm

http://www.hotrodparts.com/rv/mg-brakes.htm

I've used a tow dolly (with no brakes) with no problems what so ever...but I'll take my flat bed car carrier trailer with 4 wheel brakes, Tekonsha Prodigy brake controller, and full size pick up tow vehicle in an emergency stoping situation over the tow dolly...but that's just me.

http://static.flickr.com/100/292046667_cc1661ba0e_m.jpg

redvoyager
11-15-2006, 08:25 PM
I swear by my dollie. It comes in handy nemerous times in the year. Of course I usually pull with my 7.3 diesel, but I had my brother tow my 56 Pres back to Fla from Colorado and it was just fine. The big disadvantage is that when towing it empty it bounces and thats really hard on the tires (like when we went empty to Dallas).
You just have to remember to drive like you are towing and plan ahead.

Norm
58 Transtar 1 ton dually PU
58 2 door wagon
Davenport, Fl

redvoyager
11-15-2006, 08:25 PM
I swear by my dollie. It comes in handy nemerous times in the year. Of course I usually pull with my 7.3 diesel, but I had my brother tow my 56 Pres back to Fla from Colorado and it was just fine. The big disadvantage is that when towing it empty it bounces and thats really hard on the tires (like when we went empty to Dallas).
You just have to remember to drive like you are towing and plan ahead.

Norm
58 Transtar 1 ton dually PU
58 2 door wagon
Davenport, Fl

studegary
11-15-2006, 09:19 PM
I have used chains and tow bars to move many Studebakers distances of more than a few miles. I haven't done this in many years (since I was about 45). Maybe I have gotten more safety conscious, or something. Now, I have most everything commercially transported. I have also used a goose neck trailer, with brakes, behind a full size pickup. The worst experiences with a tow bar that come to mind are towing a '56 Golden Hawk from CT to NY with a Corvair and a tow bar and using a tow bar to tow a Zip Van and having the tow bar snap off the Zip Van bumper when I crested a hill (I was able to keep the towing car, a '63 Cruiser, in front of the Zip Van until I got it stopped. The difficult part was the re-hook up because I was alone.). The net is; I would use the dolly behind your Champ to tow the Hawk short distances, but not for what you plan. How about just getting someone else to drive one of the vehicles?

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

studegary
11-15-2006, 09:19 PM
I have used chains and tow bars to move many Studebakers distances of more than a few miles. I haven't done this in many years (since I was about 45). Maybe I have gotten more safety conscious, or something. Now, I have most everything commercially transported. I have also used a goose neck trailer, with brakes, behind a full size pickup. The worst experiences with a tow bar that come to mind are towing a '56 Golden Hawk from CT to NY with a Corvair and a tow bar and using a tow bar to tow a Zip Van and having the tow bar snap off the Zip Van bumper when I crested a hill (I was able to keep the towing car, a '63 Cruiser, in front of the Zip Van until I got it stopped. The difficult part was the re-hook up because I was alone.). The net is; I would use the dolly behind your Champ to tow the Hawk short distances, but not for what you plan. How about just getting someone else to drive one of the vehicles?

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)