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  • Pure Stock Drags

    Sorry for so long in posting this but when we got home from the drags we were getting ready to leave for the International meet in Pennsylvania the next day. Since the drags were rained out, I didn't think it was too important to post but here it is now.

    When we arrived at the track Friday morning it was raining and rained off and on most of the day. In between showers the track personnel worked at drying the track. We were called into the staging lanes twice but about the time the track was dry enough to run it started raining again.

    Finally about 5:30 the track was dry enough to do some running but a Vette, one of the first or second cars that went down the track, dumped antifreeze about half way down the track and that took almost another hour to clean that up.

    Some of the cars seem to get decent traction but most found the track was far worse than the traction on the road. I know it was that way for us.

    Most of the Stude guys were quite a bit off their normal times and many others seemed to be in the same situation. I think Richard Poe's best was in the 14.50 range and Peter Sant had a best in the 14.90's I believe but he found a bad rotor in the distributor later. Chuck Kerns with his '63 R 2 Avanti ran in the 14.70's. I don't think Doug Tjapkes or John Raab made any runs although I know they were there but must have gone home before this.

    George Krem's R 3 Challenger now has a Powershift instead of the four speed and at home on the road we could come off at an idle and the tires would spin about two revolutions and go. I thought at the track we could torque it up some and leave the same way. WRONG!

    The first run, we torqued it up to about 1500 and had a 2.491 sixty foot time and when going to second it started to go sideways. That run was 15.265 @ 101.28 mph. That run was against Peter Sant and he turned 15.331 on that run.

    The second run we come off just above idle and was not much better. Sixty foot was 2.430 but at least it didn't feel as "loose" going to second and got a 13.736 @ 104.67. This run was against a 427 Vette four speed. I think he must have missed a gear as he only went 15.494 @ 90.08 mph.

    By the third run the traction was getting better so we came off around 1800 and fethering the accelerator, was able to get a 2.121 sixty foot with a 13.132 @ 106.32 mph. The other car was a 442 Olds that turned 14.267 @ 95.79 mph.

    After making the three runs in the R 2 we went to the Tomato. The first run was a 2.281 sixty foot with 13.664 @ 106.29. This was against a '69 Pontiac Firebird 400/325/ four speed. I don't know what happened to him but he only went 18.912 @ 71.46 mph.

    The second run had a 2.245 sixty foot with a 13.433 @ 106.79 mph. This was against a '72 GTO 455HO automatic that went 13.455 @ 101.91 mph.

    That was it for the runs we made. When we showed up Saturday morning it was raining and the forecast was 90% chance of rain all day so it was cancelled and we headed home.

    Larry Mitchell from Missouri was there and took some video of what little we got to run. Mary Ann recorded it on a DVD. The DVD runs about 15 minutes and it is almost all Stude runs. If any one wants a copy, send $5 to us and we will mail you one. It is not real good but all we could get in the limited time. If I knew how, I would post it on here but I'm computer ignorant.

    Ted

  • #2
    Woooo baby! Sounds like there's some potential to be discovered in that Powershift yet![]

    Miscreant Studebaker nut in California's central valley.

    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe
    1957 President two door

    No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

    Comment


    • #3
      A correction: In the fourth paragraph from the bottom, it should read, "After making three runs in the R 3", not the R 2. Also our address is 18994N 125E, Summitville, IN 46070.

      Ted

      quote:Originally posted by Chicken Hawk

      Sorry for so long in posting this but when we got home from the drags we were getting ready to leave for the International meet in Pennsylvania the next day. Since the drags were rained out, I didn't think it was too important to post but here it is now.

      When we arrived at the track Friday morning it was raining and rained off and on most of the day. In between showers the track personnel worked at drying the track. We were called into the staging lanes twice but about the time the track was dry enough to run it started raining again.

      Finally about 5:30 the track was dry enough to do some running but a Vette, one of the first or second cars that went down the track, dumped antifreeze about half way down the track and that took almost another hour to clean that up.

      Some of the cars seem to get decent traction but most found the track was far worse than the traction on the road. I know it was that way for us.

      Most of the Stude guys were quite a bit off their normal times and many others seemed to be in the same situation. I think Richard Poe's best was in the 14.50 range and Peter Sant had a best in the 14.90's I believe but he found a bad rotor in the distributor later. Chuck Kerns with his '63 R 2 Avanti ran in the 14.70's. I don't think Doug Tjapkes or John Raab made any runs although I know they were there but must have gone home before this.

      George Krem's R 3 Challenger now has a Powershift instead of the four speed and at home on the road we could come off at an idle and the tires would spin about two revolutions and go. I thought at the track we could torque it up some and leave the same way. WRONG!

      The first run, we torqued it up to about 1500 and had a 2.491 sixty foot time and when going to second it started to go sideways. That run was 15.265 @ 101.28 mph. That run was against Peter Sant and he turned 15.331 on that run.

      The second run we come off just above idle and was not much better. Sixty foot was 2.430 but at least it didn't feel as "loose" going to second and got a 13.736 @ 104.67. This run was against a 427 Vette four speed. I think he must have missed a gear as he only went 15.494 @ 90.08 mph.

      By the third run the traction was getting better so we came off around 1800 and fethering the accelerator, was able to get a 2.121 sixty foot with a 13.132 @ 106.32 mph. The other car was a 442 Olds that turned 14.267 @ 95.79 mph.

      After making the three runs in the R 2 we went to the Tomato. The first run was a 2.281 sixty foot with 13.664 @ 106.29. This was against a '69 Pontiac Firebird 400/325/ four speed. I don't know what happened to him but he only went 18.912 @ 71.46 mph.

      The second run had a 2.245 sixty foot with a 13.433 @ 106.79 mph. This was against a '72 GTO 455HO automatic that went 13.455 @ 101.91 mph.

      That was it for the runs we made. When we showed up Saturday morning it was raining and the forecast was 90% chance of rain all day so it was cancelled and we headed home.

      Larry Mitchell from Missouri was there and took some video of what little we got to run. Mary Ann recorded it on a DVD. The DVD runs about 15 minutes and it is almost all Stude runs. If any one wants a copy, send $5 to us and we will mail you one. It is not real good but all we could get in the limited time. If I knew how, I would post it on here but I'm computer ignorant.

      Ted

      Comment


      • #4
        Ted, it was good to finally meet you. Hopefully next time it'll be more than 30 seconds[:I]

        If you want you can post the video on YouTube. You'd probably have to split it since I believe they limit it to 10 minutes. I did an hour's worth of video at Lancaster and posted it in several segments. You can see them here if you like:



        Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
        Parish, central NY 13131

        "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

        "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



        Comment


        • #5
          quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

          Woooo baby! Sounds like there's some potential to be discovered in that Powershift yet![]

          Miscreant Studebaker nut in California's central valley.
          Possibly, Bob, but it might not be realized. An unfortunate incident at the end of the day Friday, about 8:30PM just as the strip was closing practice, caused Cousin George to seriously entertain retiring The Plain Brown Wrapper from Pure Stock Drag Racing, "quitting while we're ahead," so to speak.

          Said incident was my brother Stanley's 1967 427 Fairlane trying to destroy itself just as it cleared the traps at well over 100 MPH. It was nighttime and hard to see, even though the strip had good lights, but shortly after tripping the 1320 counter, Stan's Fairlane disappeared in an enormous cloud of steamy smoke, so much so that I thought the engine had blown.

          You could no longer see the car's tailights for all the smoke. I was seriously concerned that oil or anti-freeze under the rear tires at that speed in the night air on a dew-drenched race track might have caused Stan to lose control and roll or damage the car at over 100 MPH. Gulp.

          We quickly unhooked The Plain Brown Wrapper's trailer from my Dakota and took off for the far end of the track. The car was there, intact, with the whole engine compartment and undercarriage bathed in coolant; dripping everywhere and a real mess. A track worker had already arrived and was taking the driver back. It turned out that it wasn't Brother Stan after all, but hot-shoe Pure Stock Ford driver ????? (can't think of his first name) Artes, who Stan had encouraged to see what it would do! I guess they found out....[xx(]

          Anyway, at this writing, they have determined it either blew a head gasket or, more possibly per Ford counsellors, split the block open at the top of one side (not good). Stan is removing the engine as I speak, to be returned to the high-dollar Ford Race Engine Master Builder in Michigan where it was built, who asked that Stan not dismantle it until it was back up there. Now, obviously, my brother has well into five figures in that engine alone....[8][V]

          The whole incident got Cousin George's attention, now more seriously considering something he's thought about for a couple years; retiring "The Wrapper" while we are ahead of the game. That R3, in true Studebaker V-8 fashion, has now been running hard over 10 years up there without as much as a head gasket change. In fact, the engine is still running all eight original ForgedTrue pistons[:0] that were installed at Paxton in Santa Monica in 1963!

          While The 'Wrapper might be good for another tenth or a couple MPH in the quarter-mile, the reality is that the car and engine have already proven that an R3 Studebaker at Ted Harbit's hand can do everything we thought they could, and more. What it's done up there has now been written up in every major enthusiast magazine. So the honest question, "Why risk blowing up that good R3 engine to pile even a thicker layer of frosting on the cake?" is being considered.

          George came up with this on his own, but I'll confess to having endorsed it when he ran it past me on the way back from Stanton ten days ago. Rare, broken, expensive pieces [V] have little appeal to most of us, especially when the point has already been made many times over...and Ted Harbit needs the time to finish and run his
          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

          Comment


          • #6
            "That R3, in true Studebaker V-8 fashion, has now been running hard over 10 years up there without as much as a head gasket change. In fact, the engine is still running all eight original ForgedTrue pistons that were installed at Paxton in Santa Monica in 1963!"

            Those are simply amazing facts, Bob. And it just proves what I've said (and been roasted for) in the past.
            We went to pick up my Cruiser this AM and my neighbor spots a '70 Malibu next door to where the Cruiser was. He let out a long whistle and opined that there was a car with super driveability and power potential. I was gonna light into a lecture about the Tomato and Poe's R1, but I held my breath. I know he wouldn't believe me or if he did he'd chalk it up to some anomaly or the right weather or whatever. That's the sad thing.
            Ted & the rest have PROVEN the superiority of our cars, but the die's so long cast that most who HEAR the facts, don't really make much (if anything) of them. They just go back to thinking like they always have that Studebaker's are some quirky thing's that crazy ol' Uncle Juster used to own. Anything but a seriously competitive piece of American iron. You know what I mean.[B)]

            No, I understand George's thinking. I think he deserves a medal for letting us believers revel in the magic reality that we've seen in the past decade - thanks to his daring and outlay. Hats off to George and Ted.[^]


            Miscreant Studebaker nut in California's central valley.

            1957 Transtar 1/2ton
            1960 Larkvertible V8
            1958 Provincial wagon
            1953 Commander coupe
            1957 President two door

            No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yep, I totally agree with George's decision and Bob P and Biggs' thoughts as well. [^]

              I think what needs to be done is for someone to replace the Brown Wrapper with an R3 Lark type clone at drag strips that is not so perfect and original that some fun cannot be had without worries! [:0]

              StudeRich
              Studebakers Northwest
              Ferndale, WA
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner
              SDC Member Since 1967

              Comment


              • #8
                quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

                Yep, I totally agree with George's decision and Bob P and Biggs' thoughts as well. [^]

                I think what needs to be done is for someone to replace the Brown Wrapper with an R3 Lark type clone at drag strips that is not so perfect and original that some fun cannot be had without worries! [:0]

                StudeRich
                Don't get too far ahead of us, Rich....! BP
                We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've been thinking it, typing it here, and saying it out loud for many years now. If I had to guess I'd say I fist got the idea back in 2001- after attending the PSMCDrags. My thought was that maybe a slightly heavier car and the slightly longer wheelbase might get it hook up a bit better. Could I be right? Let's build one, and find out!!!

                  An R3/4speed Super Cruiser would fit the bill real nice, I think.
                  Make it a green car- just for kicks...
                  [:0] [] [^]

                  StudeDave '57 [8D]
                  San Diego, Ca.
                  San Diego County SDC

                  The Official Website of the San Diego Chapter of the Studebaker Drivers Club. Serving San Diego County


                  '54 Commander Regal 4dr 'Ruby'
                  '57 Parkview 'Betsy' (she's a 2dr wagon...)
                  '57 Commander DeLuxe 2dr 'Baby'
                  '57 Champion Custom 2dr 'Jewel'
                  '58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
                  '65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

                  Part owner of the one and only
                  '55 PROTOTYPE panel van

                  StudeDave '57 [8D]
                  San Diego, Ca.
                  San Diego County SDC

                  The Official Website of the San Diego Chapter of the Studebaker Drivers Club. Serving San Diego County


                  '54 Commander Regal 4dr 'Ruby'
                  '57 Parkview 'Betsy' (she's a 2dr wagon...)
                  '57 Commander DeLuxe 2dr 'Baby'
                  '57 Champion Custom 2dr 'Jewel'
                  '58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
                  '65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

                  Part owner of the one and only
                  '55 PROTOTYPE panel van
                  StudeDave '57
                  US Navy (retired)

                  3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
                  SDC Member since 1985

                  past President
                  Whatcom County Chapter SDC
                  San Diego Chapter SDC

                  past Vice President
                  San Diego Chapter SDC
                  North Florida Chapter SDC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The annual all Studebaker Nationals and Orphan Car Drag Race is Saturday May 27th 2017 9:00 am at Brown County Dragway in Bean Blossom, Indiana. "Studebaker Drag Racing you can't beat it" For more information contact Richard Poe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by Studedude

                      From a purely selfish perspective, I'd hate to see George or Ted retire anything.

                      Selfishness aside, I certainly could respect the decision to do so!

                      If it ain't broke, why break it?

                      (Might that be an original quote?) [?]

                      DAVE, THE EVIL TWIN FROM OKLAHOMA
                      Yeah; I think that's an original quote, Dave! BP
                      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        With talk of retiring the PBW I think it should be noted that the car is capable of more than it has shown. As most know, the R 3's are engineered to run at least 7000 rpm and we never ran it past 6000 through the gears nor shifted as hard as it could have been.

                        With the 4.89 gears we tried once, it did go to about 6400 at the finish line. With the 4.55 gears it finished at about 6100.

                        If it had been driven as if it were stolen (or if I owned it), there is no doubt it would have gone quite a few tenths quicker but as has been noted here, this is a "one of a kind" and a too valuable automobile to try to wring every last ounce out of it. I think it would have handled more rpm's fine but since it was being run over a 10 year period the chances go up drastically of something negatively happening.

                        I just want to thank George for trusting me to drive it and providing the non Stude people a chance to see some of its potential. Also, thanks to all the support the Stude people provided and to Bob P. for donating his time, trailer, and vehicle hauling it to and from the PSMCDR.

                        Ted

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This has always been the dichotomy of The Studebaker Drivers Club. Harry Barnes was adamant Studebakers were for driving. As a result, over the years, the SDC did not have as many jewel-like restorations as most other marque clubs. That trend has been reversed and at International Meets, the number of show restorations and trailered cars goes up every year. Yes the PBW is an irreplaceable survivor car, but we'll be losing one of the irreplaceable touchstones of SDC pride when it is no longer racing in the PSMCD.

                          thnx, jack vines

                          PackardV8
                          PackardV8

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:Originally posted by PackardV8
                            Yes the PBW is an irreplaceable survivor car, but we'll be losing one of the irreplaceable touchstones of SDC pride when it is no longer racing in the PSMCD.
                            So true...but it opens the door for another to build an R3 car and campaign it. Ted says..."the car is capable of more than it has shown." This should be a good incentive for some one else to keep the ball rolling. Ted should know [^].

                            I fully support George's decision. I would agonize about it but then most likely do the same for the same reasons.

                            Thanks, George, for letting ALL of us enjoy your special car for these years [8D] .

                            Dick Steinkamp
                            Bellingham, WA



                            Dick Steinkamp
                            Bellingham, WA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My thanks also. I remember how hard it was to believe that you where willing to risk the car in the first place. Although I have never seen the PBW run, it has been encouraging to hear of the results. I am sure that you guys have saved a lot of Studebaker engines from the scrap heap by proving to the larger automotive world their real potential.
                              Do what you feel. It's your car and you don't owe anybody a say in the decision.


                              1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
                              "I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."
                              "In the heart of Arkansas."
                              Searcy, Arkansas
                              1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
                              1952 2R pickup

                              Comment

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