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52-fan
08-24-2008, 03:24 PM
I talked with a man at the Springfield swap who said he was getting out of Studebakers and wanted to sell his parts. He has several engines. Some engines are complete and some torn down. The engine that I personally am most interested in is one that he said came out of a 63 Hawk he parted out. He tells me that the car has an automatic with a floor shift. Two questions. Does that mean that it has to be a powershift and was the powershift available behind standard Stude V-8s?

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

JDP
08-24-2008, 04:01 PM
Yes, and yes.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

StudeRich
08-24-2008, 04:06 PM
The Power Shift was never limited to R Series engines at all! You see many '64 GT's with Std. 289 & Power Shift, and any other model that was ordered with it in late '63 and '64.

Even though it most likely IS a Power Shift, because it came from a '63 Hawk (late), however, I would look and see if the Trans has the cooling line fittings on the pass. side front and middle of case and 6 detents on the shift lever to be sure it is a H.D. Trans. and not a Flight-O-Matic with an aftermarket floor shift.

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

52-fan
08-24-2008, 04:29 PM
Thanks for the info. I suspected that the powershift was available with the other V-8s, but I've had no reason to ask before. It will be a while before I could go look at any of this stuff as he is over 4 hours away. I knew how to identify an R block, but now I know what to look for on the transmission. He is supposed to email me some pictures.
I would really like to drive a powershift car sometime. My 62 GT with the standard automatic was not too exciting on acceleration, but a fine road car. My wife has trouble driving a standard anymore and I have considered an automatic.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

StudeRich
08-24-2008, 04:48 PM
The Power Shift will perform exactly the same, (2nd. gear start & all) as the Flight-O-Matic, UNLESS you manually shift it!

The main diff. is it was built to "take" the manual shifting (wide front band) can hold 2nd all the way down to 0 MPH, and being the H.D. case with cooling lines, it also runs cooler for longer life.

The only way to get it going quicker, is with a lower axle ratio at the expense of MPG. It should have a 3.31, if it is a 3.07 or a 259 engine, I would correct it!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

CKOT
08-25-2008, 10:19 AM
My '63 GT in my signature photo is a std 289 with powershift

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u317/chief120865/signature9_07_final.jpg

PackardV8
08-25-2008, 10:58 AM
FWIW, when driving a PowerShift it soon becomes automatic for me to start in Low, bump it into Drive with my thumb between 2-3k. In an Avanti with 3.73s, medium throttle application will squeek the rear tires going into second.

IMHO, the PowerShift is an under-appreciated unit. We've come to demand an overdrive or two these days, but it is a solid, durable performance transmission.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

52-fan
08-25-2008, 07:08 PM
Does the powershift have the same gearing as the standard flightomatic? On the occasions that I did pull my Hawk into low the gearing seemed awfully low and I didn't hold it long. Was I just not bold enough to take advantage of the low gear takeoff?

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

PlainBrownR2
08-25-2008, 07:22 PM
I have found 1st gear to be awefully low with the Powershift in my Lark. I would do the same thing, where I wouldn't hold the gear too long either as the gear just runs out of steam after 30 mph(I'm getting passed if I don't shift). It is humorous though that I have drawn a couple of conclusions after discovering the low gear:
Any racing is done in second. I could leave the line but I won't hold a lead for very long [:o)]
NEVER shift down into first after 20 mph when downshifting. The engine will either try to spit tranny parts out from the car, which luckily hasn't happened yet(and its never done on purpose and its not condoned), or it will launch your personal self toward the windshield when the car lurches into low low gear [:o)]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]
[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=left]

52-fan
08-25-2008, 07:51 PM
That's rather disappointing. The powershift feature does not sound very useful except for the stronger band and cooler.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

showbizkid
08-25-2008, 08:00 PM
And the floor shift! That's a big plus in my book.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

52-fan
08-25-2008, 08:15 PM
I would certainly like the look of a floor shifter in a performance oriented car. I much preferred my slap stick to a column shift in my old Dodge Charger back "in the day". I have just lost some of my interest in this particular transmission.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

PlainBrownR2
08-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Oh yes, can't forget the floor shifter. I've never had too many problems with the Powershift(well okay the flexplate), but I've come to know it as a very stout tranny. I guess the thing I have found with the tranny though is its a very tough, yet a seemingly simple little unit. It's also a design thats been found in everything from Acura to Zimmerman [:o)]

PlainBrownR2
08-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Oh yes, can't forget the floor shifter. I've never had too many problems with the Powershift(well okay the flexplate), but I've come to know it as a very stout tranny. I guess the thing I have found with the tranny though is its a very tough, yet a seemingly simple little unit. It's also a design thats been found in everything from Acura to Zimmerman [:o)]

Dick Steinkamp
08-25-2008, 08:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by 52-fan

That's rather disappointing. The powershift feature does not sound very useful except for the stronger band and cooler.



The Flightomatics in the jet thrust cars were also water cooled as were the Flightomatics in the Chevy powered 65 and 66's.



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

BobPalma
08-25-2008, 10:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

The Flightomatics in the jet thrust cars were also water cooled as were the Flightomatics in the Chevy powered 65 and 66's.

Dick Steinkamp


:) Easy there, Dick. Believe it or not, there were quite a few R-engined cars built with "normal," air-cooled Flightomatics...more than we'd like to admit, quite frankly.

And not just early '63s, either, although they are the bulk of them.

For example, 64V7089 was (or is, I hope it's still around!) a 1964 Daytona convertible, Laguna Blue with blue vinyl interior (individually-adjustable front seats), R2 with standard-duty, column-shift Flightomatic!

Here you had a car with both the power (R2) and weight (convertible) to kill a standard-duty Flightomatic in short order, but they did build and ship the thing[:0]...and while it is an exception, it is one of a handful.[V]

(Yes, to answer your next question: You would have known the above factoid had my article in Collectible Automobile already been published. Hang on, itsa' comin!) :DBP

PackardV8
08-25-2008, 11:03 PM
Hi, Plain Brown R2,

Am going to have to disagree:


quote:I have found 1st gear to be awefully low with the Powershift in my Lark. I would do the same thing, where I wouldn't hold the gear too long either as the gear just runs out of steam after 30 mph(I'm getting passed if I don't shift). It is humorous though that I have drawn a couple of conclusions after discovering the low gear:
Any racing is done in second. I could leave the line but I won't hold a lead for very long

I've raced Studes for forty years. You start in second, I'll start in first. I'll jump a lead just long enough, shift at the horsepower peak; you'll never catch up. Even in normal driving, I start in first gear, glance at the tachometer, shift at the torque peak and keep pulling ahead of the pack. Your car, your choice, but first gear start IS faster.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

Dick Steinkamp
08-25-2008, 11:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


:) Easy there, Dick. Believe it or not, there were quite a few R-engined cars built with "normal," air-cooled Flightomatics...


If you say it, Bob...I believe it [^].



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

StudeRich
08-26-2008, 01:17 AM
Yep, I too can verify that! The beautiful Rose Mist '63 Cruiser of Stephanie and James Bell's that is quite famous up here in the Northwest, and was at the recent Pacific Northwest Can-Am Meet in Oregon City, OR is one of those not R2, but an Original Jet Thrust R1 Air Cond. Cruiser is in fact a Std. Flight-O-Matic. [:0]

The way that car runs with a freshly rebuilt Studebakers Northwest engine and a new Edelbrock AFB clone, I don't think it would take too many full throttle 1/4 mile runs before some pretty serious wear would show up! In the "normal" driving (cruising) it gets, I think it will last quite a long time however! [^]


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

PlainBrownR2
08-26-2008, 02:24 AM
That's nice Jack but in the years of owning this vehicle 1st gear is pretty much a towing gear. Remember now in Drive the vehicle starts in 2nd gear as 1st gear shifts at lightning speed. There's little leeway in that gear as after 20 mph the guy who I just got the lead on is now moving fast to play catch up. With second gear and shift to 3rd at 3000 I have a little less ratio but in stoplight to stoplight races it has proven itself well to pull ahead of the pack. Yes, my car, my choice, and I need the use 1st gear like a hole in head a majority of the time.

I've also found 2nd gear an effective engine brake in curves, something most people out here haven't figured out. If you decide to come tailing me through a curve, don't expect brake lights, as well as a quick pull to the next hill with a shift from 2nd to 3rd. At that point it becomes He** in a nose heavy car to keep pace for those who have to use the brake.... [}:)]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]
[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=left]

Mr. Bill
08-28-2008, 07:46 PM
Would it have cost Studebaker much to change the Flight O Matic shift pattern from PNDLR to PRNDL ?

Bill Sapp
Hamlet, NC

Dick Steinkamp
08-28-2008, 07:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich
The beautiful Rose Mist '63 Cruiser of Stephanie and James Bell's...


I lust after that car! [:p] It is beautiful [8D]

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

StudeRich
08-29-2008, 01:48 AM
Probably very little, all they had to do is order Ford-O-Matics from Borg Warner instead of Flight-O-Matics! [:0]

But the question is: why would they! [?]

They had a safer, better shift pattern already that was developed to be able to rock the car forward & back from Rev. to Low per your Owners handbook in snow, mud etc. which is IMPOSSIBLE to do with the "conventional" pattern! [:0]


quote:Originally posted by Mr. Bill

Would it have cost Studebaker much to change the Flight O Matic shift pattern from PNDLR to PRNDL?Bill SappHamlet, NC

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

studebaker-R2-4-me
08-29-2008, 11:02 AM
I think someone in the past has played with your powershift!

I always start out in 1st. Drive her up to 3000-4500 RPM and flip it into 2nd. Chirps the tires every time. My Powershift is a geared just the way I like to drive. If I start out in 2nd I'm just taking a Sunday drive!

When I build another drivetrain for a '63 HT, My spare Powershift will be behind the powerplant.


quote:I have found 1st gear to be awefully low with the Powershift in my Lark. I would do the same thing, where I wouldn't hold the gear too long either as the gear just runs out of steam after 30 mph(I'm getting passed if I don't shift). It is humorous though that I have drawn a couple of conclusions after discovering the low gear:
Any racing is done in second. I could leave the line but I won't hold a lead for very long
NEVER shift down into first after 20 mph when downshifting. The engine will either try to spit tranny parts out from the car, which luckily hasn't happened yet(and its never done on purpose and its not condoned), or it will launch your personal self toward the windshield when the car lurches into low low gear

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/Side.jpg

1964 GT Hawk R2 Clone
Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter
See you at the PSMCDR in Stanton Michigan September 12& 13

Dick Steinkamp
08-29-2008, 11:29 AM
quote:Originally posted by PlainBrownR2

I have found 1st gear to be awefully low with the Powershift in my Lark. I would do the same thing, where I wouldn't hold the gear too long either as the gear just runs out of steam after 30



Low gear is 2.40 (I believe) in a PowerShift. With a 3.54 rear end and 27" tall tires, 5000 RPM is 47 MPH with that combo. You should still be pulling strong at 5,000 RPM.

So you either have a 5.50 rear, or a sick motor to be running out of steam at 30 MPH

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

PlainBrownR2
08-29-2008, 07:17 PM
3.31 open rear with 205 75 R15 Control TA's. The engine is an R2, supercharged, overbored .030 with milled heads, composition gaskets and Pertronix ignition. The ignition has been advanced in the typical fashion. I'm sorry but I'm not gonna wind out a daily driver more than necessary, lest I feel like replacing something that's broken. The engine is also well maintained mechanically, and the way it runs on the interstate(you know left lane at and over 70 mph) it pulls FINE. In 1st gear anything over 3000 is overreving(which makes it near useless for me in this respect) and it comes on quick so it's not necessary when I leave the line. So I use 2nd gear which has shown a better effect than 1st gear has. If it's a sick motor tell that to more than a few of the Mustang GT guys and Honda guys who couldn't get me from their front fender [}:)]. The method works just fine for me as done as such for the past 6 years of owning the car.....

PS, I'm well aware of the open differential as opposed to the TT so don't bother pointing that out......

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]
[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=left]

Green53
08-29-2008, 10:30 PM
I frequently use low to start out from lights in my R1 powered 64 Avanti & 64 R1 convertible. I have never seen any need to change them to low start when it is so easy to slip it into 2nd when moving.
Denny L

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Daytona64/53Stude2015.jpg