Hanging pedals on a '56 sedan?

[Allan Songer]

The time has come to run brake lines and fab up a master cylinder arrangement for the '56 F4 hot rod. I was going to use the little Wilwood dual master with the remote resevoir--the one with the 1" bore with NO booster and 2# residual valves to the front and rear for the Corvette discs. I was thinking of ordering Jim Turner's kit for the master--it looks well engineered to me and would save me a lot of messin' around.

But then I was over at Bill Oliver's place and saw a '53 K with a 500 inch Caddy and hanging pedals out of a Lark with a firewall master and little booster. It was a bit "shadetree" with angle-iron reinforcements under the dash, but other than that it was pretty slick. The clutch set-up was straight-up '63 Lark from what I could tell. In the sedan I might be able to get away without moving the battery . . .

I've got to make a decision this week in order to stay on track. What do you guys think? Anyone out there put hanging pedals from a Lark into an earlier car?

[Dick Steinkamp]

I really like the under floor system. You probably won't find a more robust mount for a brake pedal anywhere (well, Porsche used the same system in the 911). That means no "spongieness" induced from the mount flexing. Bracing that firewall to adequately support a hanging pedal system properly will be tough.

The stock set up is also super simple. No "monkey motion" linkages...just a rod from the bottom of the pedal to the MC.

One other benefit is that it keeps the engine compartment "clean". The MC and booster hanging on the firewall is not an attractive addition to the engine compartment (IMHO).

The downside is that it is difficult to mount a booster AND a dual circuit MC. There are dual circuit remote power boosters available (aftermarket/hot rod). They are big and ugly, however, and best mounted out of sight in the trunk. You might be able to fit a hot rod under floor combo MC/booster in a Stude, but it would take some re-engineering of the body mounts. Maybe less, however, than engineering firewall bracing.


Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[sweetolbob]

Hopefully some of the more knowledgeable will correct this post if I'm mistaken comparing my 54 to a 56, but I put an 1989 Camaro IROC power brake master cylinder setup in my 54 hardtop including the proportioning valve. There was no way I would install the master cylinder assembly on the stock fire wall. Just to flimsy. I'd be concerned with the flexing under hard braking. I used a 3/16" plate installed behind the fire wall supported by a framework of 1-1/2" angle. It is now rock solid and provided mounting points for other items. The other thing that needs to be done to install the power vacuum assembly is to put a relief in the inner fender wall but not necessary without the power system. This install puts the Camaro pedal in the proper position and looks like an OEM install.

[Allan Songer]

I've run disc/drum setups WITHOUT a booster with no problems, so I'm thinking I can run this disc/disc system without one as well. There was BARELY enough room for an frame rail mounted booster on the '55 pickup, but there's no way it will fit under the sedan without some MAJOR surgery.

Do you guys see any problems running the disc/dsic setup with a 1" bore master and no booster? I know the pedal will be pretty firm, but that's of no worry to me . . .

[ROADRACELARK]

If you're gona' have PS, there's always the hydraboost system. Lots of street rodders with big cam motors (low vacuum) use these a lot. They are compact in size. Just another suggestion.

Dan Miller
Auburn, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

[PackardV8]

Hi, Allan,

Agree with DS, the underfloor Stude brake linkage is hell-for-stout and the swinging pedals require mucho bracing to make them work. I stayed with the underfloor system for brake and added a hydraulic clutch. The only downside to the underfloor system is sealing it from water and noise. The new Classic repro cover may be the way to go.

No problem to run without a booster IF you use OEM pads. The hard racing pads won't work without a booster. Also, you won't need the residual valves with the underfloor location.

If you insist, I've got a complete '64 Daytona pedal system on the shelf.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

[Rosstude]

Allan,
Although I do not have disk / disk, I know the 1" master is "firm", that is it takes some leg pressure to lock-um-up with disk/drum.
Been looking at this for the wifes 57.

http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html

Worth a look.

[img=left]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/OldWorld2005002.jpg[/img=left]
Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar

[Allan Songer]

quote:Originally posted by Rosstude

Allan,
Although I do not have disk / disk, I know the 1" master is "firm", that is it takes some leg pressure to lock-um-up with disk/drum.
Been looking at this for the wifes 57.

http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html

Worth a look.

[img=left]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/OldWorld2005002.jpg[/img=left]
Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar

I like a firm pedal, so I've decided to stay with my first inclination--usually the best idea anyway!!!

[Dick Steinkamp]

You may also want to think about slightly modifying the pedal geometry to give you more leverage...if you decide to go without the booster.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[Jeff_H]

Here is what I did with my 53K:



First picture shows the cut down and modified pedal hanger from a '63 lark. The left end was cut off and ground down. Then I welded a plate with slots to mate up with the steering column bracket so this pc sandwiches with it to the bottom of the dash with the steering column bolts. There is a trangular shaped brace that bolts to the upper firewall that was stock to support the steering column and dash and that bolts to the extra hole visible in the plate just to the right of the slots. The right end of the bracket has 2 nuts welded to it and 2 bolts (as studs). Holes were cut in the firewall and the 2 bolts stick through for the master to attach to. Then, there is the wedge-shaped filler pc (visible between the bracket and the master) that goes on the firewall on the engine side. The firewall leans backwards in the K body so the filler is there to get a vertical mount for the master cylinder to sit on. I started by drilling out the spotwelds from the little reinforcement plate on the lark and then welding pcs of electrical conduit to it and a sheet metal sidewall. Those then got ground and filed down to fit. Only way I could make this myself without a mill and some billet. I had to cut the pushrod in half and add about 1" to it to compensate for the filler panel thickness. Also had to tweak a little bend in it since it would bind a hair due to the angle change.



The 2nd picture shows the engine side installed in the car. This all worked "ok" but I found it took too much pedal pressure and I was getting some firewall flex. If I had to do it over again, I'd put a big plate with some ribs on the back side of the firewall to stiffen it up. What I did do is add a power booster to the system as seen in the 3rd picture. The brakes now work pretty well.



You may want to check out the Salt2Salt website. I think I saw some pictures of the pedal setup they used for the bonneville car.


Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop