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BShaw
07-21-2008, 11:01 AM
Seeing as how Skip Lackie has done a great job of updating/correcting the V/8 engine ID data on our Tech Tips, Specs & Data page (see the topic in the General Discussion Forum) I decided to give an engine I acquired quite a while ago a closer look. What I saw has me confused to what I have so I come to you.

Where the number is supposed to be stamped at the right front it looks like this:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/DSCF0267.jpg

Back at the left rear it's stamped with this:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/DSCF0268.jpg

It has dished pistons marked L-2027 STD (I presume standard size):
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/DSCF0269.jpg

The heads are 527772, which, if the data is correct, makes it a 7.0:1 c.r. (51-54 with the small valves?)

At one time prior to my acquistition it supposedly had a VS57 supercharger on it.

Is this a 224 or 232 or what? I picked this up ($50 bucks, including 4-bbl intake with wcfb) thinking it would go in my 49 2R5 project. If it is an early V/8 I'm not so sure I want to use it...or should I?

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
webmaster@studebakerdriversclub.com
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

StudeRich
07-21-2008, 11:18 AM
Bob, '51 & '52 232's were I.D.'d on the rear, the Chassis Manual shows '52's started at V123001, so it's a '51. The heads also match a early 232, makes me wonder if they modified the valves. This is a modified engine, probably bored to 3 9/16" to accept 289 dished pistons, measure the bore to confirm this. The crank will be the answer to the mystery! We had a post or a website listing casting numbers on cranks to I.D. the crank, or you could attempt a rough guess measure of the stroke, but my guess is that it is a 289 crank.

Someone tried to use a 232 block to make a '57 GH clone 289, and it should work, but with limited power with the wrong heads and that could be easily fixed! [^] You know these blocks tend to be thicker walled and have less "core shift" than later engines, so they could be stronger and run cooler!

Does it have the early (232) timing gear cover (sheet metal, no fuel pump) or the cast Aluminum one with a fuel pump mount? That would confirm some of what they were doing with this engine.

So you have yer self a real HYBRID! It's a was-a 232, is a wanna-be 289 ! :D

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

BShaw
07-21-2008, 11:51 AM
Interesting, Rich. It does have the stamped sheet metal timing gear cover. One of these days I'll get it on the engine stand and see what I can find on the crank.

I was told that it had been recently rebuilt (by some unknown p.o.) but now it will not turn over. There is no apparent scorching, scoring, ridge or rust in any of the cylinders (that I can see). Funny that the gunked up water jackets suggest more usage than do the cylinder/piston appearance.

The heads are at another location so I can't look at the valves today but what might I look for to determine if some head/valve work was done?

Anyway, my "plan" is to soak it down with Marvel Mystery Oil and if it still won't turn I'll pull the rod caps and check each cylinder, crank, rod bearing, etc. to find out what's binding.

If it turns out I can use it, I'll need to get some 289 heads..anyone have a set all ready to go?

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
webmaster@studebakerdriversclub.com
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

BShaw
07-21-2008, 12:35 PM
The crank ID is 526832, which is a 232 crank according to Bob Johnstone's tech page, http://www.studebaker-info.org/text3/cranknum2007.txt

If I can find my calipers I'll measure the bore.

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
webmaster@studebakerdriversclub.com
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

StudeRich
07-21-2008, 12:37 PM
If any pistons appear to be all the way down (at BDC) and others all the way up at (TDC), measuring the difference should tell you something, since there is quite a bit of difference from a 232 stroke to a 289!

If the heads had some porting done the "valve shrouds" around the valves (sharp edged ramps) would be ground down and rounded, and you could measure the valves and someone will tell you if they are stock, if you are not familiar with V-8's.

The '57 to '60 V-8 heads are very plentiful and are all the same 259/289 many have been salvaged from the thousands of '59 Larks that were parted and scrapped being the largest production year of V-8's.
They are good heads with 8.5 to 1 with thin gasket or 8.0 with thick ones and are casting number 537555. Finding some with a fresh valve grind (ready to go) is a bit harder though. :)

Very interesting engine you have there, makes one wonder about the Cam grind (specs.)! [?]

Added 9:45 AM PDT: well that last info is really interesting! Now we need to know if they stroked the heck out of it or machined special pistons for it, because the pin location is way different from 232 to 289! Those "dishes" look very stock 289 to me!

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

BShaw
07-21-2008, 02:13 PM
Bore measures 3-9/16 (with a tape cuz my inside caliper is MIA).

As the engine is seized I can't get a stroke measurement. I'll have to just get off my duff, get it torn down and go from there. I suspect we won't really know wassup until then.

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
webmaster@studebakerdriversclub.com
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

StudeRich
07-21-2008, 03:08 PM
Well Bob, I can tell you one thing, if it has stock 289 Pistons and a stock 232 Crank, it would have had about 3 to 1 compression and IF it ran, maybe 50 H.P. so that would explain the no wear condition! :D

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Skip Lackie
07-21-2008, 03:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Bob, '51 & '52 232's were I.D.'d on the rear
StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

Bob-
Here's another datum I left out of the table. Thanks Rich!

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Dwain G.
07-21-2008, 04:09 PM
Member Dwight FitzSimons has decoded and compiled information on Studebaker date coding. The first photo in the first post is telling us that the block was cast in '1951, August, 6th day'. You might notice that date indicates the '51 model year ran quite late into the calendar year.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/images/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

bob40
07-21-2008, 05:10 PM
Bob...I have a NOS set of heads still in the factory wood boxes sitting at the house.Seem to recall they are '57 heads.I'll check the numbers later.I assume they are bare heads but I'm pretty sure I have a full set of NOS valves and springs around here somewhere too.

BShaw
07-21-2008, 07:13 PM
quote:Originally posted by bob40

Bob...I have a NOS set of heads still in the factory wood boxes sitting at the house.Seem to recall they are '57 heads.I'll check the numbers later.I assume they are bare heads but I'm pretty sure I have a full set of NOS valves and springs around here somewhere too.


If this block turns out to be usable, I'll definitely be interested.

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
webmaster@studebakerdriversclub.com
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

bob40
07-21-2008, 07:18 PM
Numbers on the crate are 536097.

StudeRich
07-22-2008, 04:50 PM
Those are low compression 7.5 to 1 export '59-'61 car heads, also used on trucks with thick gasket 7.0 to 1. Should work fine with only slightly less performance and you could mill them and use the thin gasket to get them to 8.0 or so.


quote:Originally posted by bob40

Numbers on the crate are 536097.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

bob40
07-22-2008, 05:50 PM
Hey Rich,I looked at this site:
http://www.studebakerparts.com/studebakerparts/store/s/agora.cgi?&&page=cyl-head.html
It says 56-60 with 7.5 ccr.Curious.
Either way they would work on Bob's engine and with those pistons and a set of thick gaskets wouldnt it be a candidate for a supercharger?

laughinlark
07-23-2008, 12:09 AM
Cool info on the 232's. So the running 232 that I put in my 64 Cruiser is casting #D 11 21 So its a 51, November, 21 day? Stamped #V5417. Head casting # 527772 7:1 comp ratio?

Gordon

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/gordsjsmk-1.jpghttp://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/11-28-07130-1.jpghttp://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/all283.jpg

StudeRich
07-23-2008, 01:16 PM
Sure; with the 535976 (Casting) part # 536097 head it would be the same as a '57 GH, but anything up to the Avanti R2 9.0 Comp. should work fine with a blower, but in that case it would be nice to find some NLA Avanti Clevite 77 Tri-Metal Rod bearings though! Also one would sure hope it turns out to have a 289 Crank! [:0]

Yes Bob, Chuck's info does say that the years could be correct, but they are export only on cars & Std. only on Trucks. Also his list I think was copied from the one Jon Myer created over 25 years ago and had lots of errors and still has a few, so it's a rough guess, and needs more Parts Catalog research.


quote:Originally posted by bob40

Hey Rich,I looked at this site:/cut/ It says 56-60 with 7.5 ccr. Curious./cut/
they would work on Bob's engine and with those pistons and a set of thick gaskets wouldn't it be a candidate for a supercharger?

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

BShaw
07-27-2008, 09:23 PM
I still haven't made the time to get the engine on the stand and dig into it but I did remove a rod cap. Here's the info stamped on the bearing.

D.A.B. 66
6-17
6785

Does this tell us anything further?

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
webmaster@studebakerdriversclub.com
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

Dwain G.
07-27-2008, 11:27 PM
The manufacturer is Detroit Aluminum and Brass. Their engine bearing line is known as Michigan Bearings. I think the 66 represents the bearing materials, and these are aluminum alloy. The 6-17 may be a date code? 6785 is the part number.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/images/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

BShaw
07-28-2008, 12:20 AM
Thanks, Dwain. Should there be any markings to indicate standard or undersize? I've only looked on the one half but maybe there's something on the other half? Trying to determine if that 232 crank has been worked on.

Also what is the bore and stroke for a 232?

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
webmaster@studebakerdriversclub.com
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

Dwain G.
07-29-2008, 03:56 PM
Each bearing shell should be identical. Standard size bearings aren't always marked for size but undersize bearings are always marked.
The standard bore for a 232 is 3 3/8", and the stroke is 3 1/4".

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/images/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

54-61-62
07-29-2008, 05:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by 54-61-62

[quote]Originally posted by Dwain G.

undersize bearings are always marked.




That may be your experience, but mine differs. I've encountered bearings on two engines that were under but not marked. It may be that the undersize was paint or ink stamped originally and not visable years later. With engine bearings, Don't assume. Measure.