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jngregory
10-30-2006, 09:23 PM
I am a newbie to this forum, so please forgive any breaches of protocol.

HELP! I have a 1953 Commander with a later model 289 V8. I am rebuilding the 289 V8 after a bearing failure. I believe it is an Avanti engine with a partial flow block. The existing crankshaft is damaged and bent, and the machinist feels it is best to replace the crankshaft.

The old crankshaft has a casting #537424. I have obtained a replacement crankshaft with a casting #1556444 from Lionel Stone. They are both listed as casting numbers for 1955-64 289 V-8 (3-5/8" stroke). All measurements are identical, but the new crankshaft (#1556444) is 1/2" longer from the main bearing to the front of the shaft. The same measurement on my old crankshaft is 2-3/4".

I thought the two crankshafts would be identical. I know that on cars with air conditioning or power steering, a longer crankshaft screw and retaining screws were used to accommodate the extra pulleys. But this engine has neither. Is the extra length a problem?

Thanks

John G.

imported_n/a
10-30-2006, 09:34 PM
Yes, to an extent. I believe You need the pulley hub(I can't really call it a Harmonic Balancer) that is the right length to match this crankshaft. The "snout" on some of those cranks does vary in length. Or, so I've read here.

klifton1
10-30-2006, 09:38 PM
The 55 engine is a 259, shorter stroke then a 289. 259 is a 3.250 stroke and the 289 is a 3.625 stroke. Are you sure you have a 289 engine ? What are the engine numbers ?
Klif

55 Speedster
42 Champ Coupe

jngregory
10-30-2006, 10:07 PM
Yes, for certain it is a 289.

John G.



quote:Originally posted by klifton1

The 55 engine is a 259, shorter stroke then a 289. 259 is a 3.250 stroke and the 289 is a 3.625 stroke. Are you sure you have a 289 engine ? What are the engine numbers ?
Klif

55 Speedster
42 Champ Coupe

Roscomacaw
10-30-2006, 11:07 PM
No partial flow "Avanti engines" were made.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Anne F. Goodman
10-30-2006, 11:32 PM
I will pray for you.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion
Gus 1958 Transtar

studegary
10-31-2006, 03:21 PM
As Bob/MrBiggs stated, there is no such thing as a partial flow Avanti engine. It sounds as though you have a 259 or 289 from 1955 to mid-1962. Please post the stamped engine number so that we know what we are dealing with and we are all talking about the same thing.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

imported_n/a
10-31-2006, 04:20 PM
It may be that the problem is a misidentification of the engine you are working on. It may well be a 289, but it is not an Avanti engine if it isn't a full-flow block. And, if Lionel sent you a crank that fits an Avanti 289, because you specified that, therein may be the problem. I believe I've read that they have the different length crank snout.

1956 Hawk
10-31-2006, 04:45 PM
I would think that the longer snout crankshaft would work, but a pulley spacer or an extra pulley might need to be added so that the crank bolt tightens up. I think the longer crank was used on air conditioned cars and Avantis because of the extra pullies.
Anyway measure the assembled pullies and vibration damper and make sure that they are thicker than the length of the crank snout.
David

Dwain G.
10-31-2006, 05:13 PM
The crankshaft snout was lengthened in 1963 to accomodate more pulleys for engine driven accessories. These crankshafts superceded the earlier ones. To use a new crankshaft in an earlier engine you got a new spacer (goes behind the pulley up against the outer rubber of the vibration damper) and a longer bolt. They called it a crankshaft 'kit'. The new spacer has a larger center hole. The old spacer will not fit onto the new style crankshaft. Using the old spacer allows about an 1/8" of crankshaft end play. Since the old spacer won't go onto the crankshaft, everything behind it is allowed to 'float'.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/53C.jpg
Dwain G.

whacker
10-31-2006, 05:58 PM
You should be able to get the install kit from Wisconsin Studebaker. I know they used to have them. One comes with each of the 259 NOS crankshafts that they sell. It also includes a longer crankshaft bolt.

jngregory
11-01-2006, 01:37 AM
Thanks for all the advice. The block is at the machine shop, but I'll drop by and check on the engine number to verify the year of the engine. It must have been a version of the 289 with the shorter crank.




quote:Originally posted by whacker

You should be able to get the install kit from Wisconsin Studebaker. I know they used to have them. One comes with each of the 259 NOS crankshafts that they sell. It also includes a longer crankshaft bolt.

jngregory
11-01-2006, 08:30 AM
The engine number stamped on the machined area at the front of the block, to the left side of the oil hole reads "F72140". This doesn't correspond to any of the V8 engine numbers on this website. I thought the "F" might be a partly obliterated "P", but it is pretty clearly an "F". The casting number on the right side of the block is "53601", if this helps.

I'm new to this, and forgive me if I'm missing something. Can anyone suggest what engine this is?

If I can figure out how to do it, I'll post some pictures.

John G.

jngregory
11-01-2006, 10:43 AM
Here are two pictures of my engine. If you look at the picture of the top of the engine, you can see the engine number (F72140) in the top left corner. This doesn't appear to correspond to any Studebaker engine number. Can anyone enlighten me?

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/jngregory/studeengine240.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/jngregory/studeengine226.jpg

GTtim
11-01-2006, 11:31 AM
John, those numbers were stamped by hand. There weren't any that were ever stamped with an 'F' that I know of. So, I'm going to say that either the 'P' that the worker was using that day had part of the letter broken off or altered or when they held it, it was tipped enough to one side to not show all the letter. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. :)

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

Roscomacaw
11-01-2006, 12:28 PM
There IS one possibility to this thing truly being stamped with an "F". This could have been a replacement block that some mechanic restamped the engine number onto and mis-read the "P" for an "F".

F was not used as a Studebaker engine number prefix - at least, not in post-WWII years. B, C, H, I, J, P, R, V, some numerals and even S (in the case of the '56 Golden Hawks's 352cu.in. Packard motor), were used as first code digits. No "F" tho.

On the assumption that the letter IS supposed to be a P, this number would pin it as a 1960 Stude 289. Same basic innards as a later Avanti engine, but technically lower compression and not full-flo oil filtration.
Of course, that doesn't mean it couldn't have BEEN rebuilt to match an Avanti's potential with the right pistons, heads and cam by someone along the way.[8D]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Dwain G.
11-01-2006, 12:39 PM
535601 is the casting number on 224, 259, 289 engine blocks used from 1955 to 1962. That's why it has a by-pass oil filter. I see the second '5' is missing on this block.
I can only guess at the 'F' engine number. I thought maybe it was supposed to be an 'E' (truck engine), but then there would need to be a number prefix.
That sure does look like a good, sharp 'F', but I too think it was supposed to be a 'P'. A simplistic explanation perhaps, but maybe a worker just picked up the wrong stamp that one time.
The numbers '72140' are within the range of model year 1960.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/53C.jpg
Dwain G.

jngregory
11-01-2006, 01:15 PM
Thanks guys. The engine was built by Dave Thibeault, and the information I was given is that it was built as an Avanti R1 with lower compression (9:1). There are R3 valves (1.875 intakes) and a few other modifications. I have sent him an email to Dave Thibeault asking if he can shed some light on this. I tried calling him but his phone is always busy.

John G.

whacker
11-02-2006, 12:06 AM
While I am sure that we are all praying for you, I think you will have better luck if you use the install kit. You wouldn't have run accross a mark that looks something like a three leaf clover on the block somewhere would you? That would identify it for sure as a replacement block.

Anne, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!

JDP
11-02-2006, 12:16 AM
Dave, may have built it, but not as a R1. It's has none of the R1 goodies, no Avanti damper or oil pan for example. Might have the R1 cam inside though.

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Arnold Md.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Lark 2 dr.
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark convert
60 Hawk
59 3E Truck
56 truck
55 Starlight
53 Starlight
52 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Roscomacaw
11-02-2006, 02:27 PM
R1s had flat-topped pistons as opposed to the dished pistons of standard 289s. If this thing was built with lower compression, maybe the valves and cam was all it got from an R1. R1s had aluminum timing gear on the camshaft too. 289 used a fibre (plastic) gear.;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe