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52-fan
06-30-2008, 06:45 PM
I began having trouble with the clutch in the Daytona not wanting to disengage and then the starter quit working. :( I decided since the weather was nice today I would get the car up and find out what was going on. I was not prepared for what I found. When I took the starter out a tiny bit of water dripped out and when I loosened the dust shield water poured out! [:0] At least now I know why I was having the two problems.
Anyway, I am very disappointed and unsure of how to proceed. I looked at one of the Stude V-8s at the garage and I see two plugs in the back of the block. I guess at least one of these goes into the water jacket? I am really bummed out because now that I have tires I had hoped to at least drive the car around the block a few times before doing anything else major. It's like two steps forward two back (brakes and tires vs starter and clutch + leak).:(
I guess now I'll be pulling the engine and sealing it up and while it's out I'll clean out the water passages, have the radiator rodded out and painted, and paint the engine. These are all things I would eventually do anyway, but I hoped it wouldn't come so soon. :(

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

Alan
06-30-2008, 07:13 PM
There is no plugs for water in the rear of a Stude V8. The one on the right is a 3/8" pipe plug that is on the pass. side oil galley and the other soft plug is just to get to the plug on the drivers side.

52-fan
06-30-2008, 07:41 PM
[:0] Then where could the water be coming from? This sounds bad.:(

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

JDP
06-30-2008, 07:41 PM
The cowl vent drain hose may be missing, pouring water down into the inspection hole on the bell housing.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."

Thomas Jeffereson

52-fan
06-30-2008, 07:50 PM
I decided to come back and edit this post. I went outside and ran water into the cowl vent and it looks like JDP is right. There was no baffle or hose and the water ran straight out onto the engine. I did not know there was a drain there. I wondered why there was a plastic clip on the right side of the firewall with nothing in it and now I know it was to support the drain hose. Thanks John. :D I still have a lot of work ahead, but if I had repaired the damage without fixing the cause it could have happened again.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

mbstude
06-30-2008, 07:51 PM
What John said. The same thing had happened to the '62 before I started driving it.

I wish someone would repop those hoses. They are a VERY vital part if your car ever sees water.

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar-9.jpg

52-fan
06-30-2008, 08:09 PM
What do you do if you don't have one?


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

JDP
06-30-2008, 09:08 PM
Make one.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."

Thomas Jeffereson

mbstude
06-30-2008, 09:18 PM
While you have it apart, get some of that metal-backed 'duct tape' and cover up the hole in the top of the bellhousing.

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar-9.jpg

bams50
06-30-2008, 09:24 PM
Just con Matthew out of the one on his newly-acquired parts car;)



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

mbstude
06-30-2008, 09:53 PM
Actually Bob, I'm saving that one as a spare. [:o)]

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar-9.jpg

52-fan
06-30-2008, 10:15 PM
I wondered about the wisdom of covering that hole in the bellhousing. I'm not likely to be using it to inspect anything after I fix the clutch.
BTW Has anybody got a clear picture of one of these ducts? I've looked at the picture in the parts book, but it does really show much detail for building a facsimile.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

wolfie
06-30-2008, 10:22 PM
I will get you a pic tommorrow but looks like a plumbing 90 and a short piece of stiff water hose would work well.Good luck,Steve

bams50
07-01-2008, 04:33 AM
Look at the underhood picture in Matthew's thread- shows it very clearly:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20203



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

DEEPNHOCK
07-01-2008, 07:41 AM
What about adding a small drain hole in the bottom of the bellhousong?
Say...1/4" diameter..
Jeff[8D]

bams50
07-01-2008, 07:52 AM
I would think it would be preferable to stop the water from
coming in in the first place.



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

tomnoller
07-01-2008, 08:25 AM
I'm glad I read this thread. My 63 didn't come with that hose either, so I'll be making one too. (I thought that was a dumb way to drain off rain - right over the bell housing.)

Western Washington, USA

52-fan
07-01-2008, 08:35 AM
Is a 62 duct different than a 63? The pipe I see in the picture looks different from the picture in the 62 parts book. Or am I missing something?

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

mbstude
07-01-2008, 11:13 AM
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/Daytona%20wreck/daytona_wreck026.jpg

Yes, the '62 setup is different. Whereas the '63 has a round outlet hole, the '62 has a long, rectangular hole.

Maybe one of the vendors will have the hoses repopped. :)

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar-9.jpg

showbizkid
07-01-2008, 12:08 PM
quote:Originally posted by mbstude

Maybe one of the vendors will have the hoses repopped. :)

Maybe if we keep askin' ;)


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

52-fan
07-01-2008, 03:26 PM
I am still hoping someone will post a clear picture of the 62 duct and hose. I have looked on this site and googled for pictures of 62 larks, but all the pictures I find are of the outside except one where a six cylinder blocks the view. Anybody got a picture that shows this thing?

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

showbizkid
07-01-2008, 06:33 PM
Here's one:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q26/clarknovak/misc/factory-fresh62LarkV8enginecompartm.jpg

This is a '62 Lark Dick Steinkamp had last year, I think.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

52-fan
07-01-2008, 09:25 PM
Thanks, this helps some. Too bad the air cleaner was in the way. At least I can see the length of the tube. I hope my car looks that good under the hood some day.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

Dwain G.
07-01-2008, 11:56 PM
[quote]Originally posted by 52-fan

What do you do if you don't have one?
__________________________________--

A 1961-62 should only need a length of straight radiator hose. The housing, or water collector, is probably still in place, and hopefully the adapter, a short metal tube, is still there also.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/images/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

52-fan
07-02-2008, 02:21 PM
My car has nothing but an opening where the water omes out of the cowl vent. My parts car in the woods did not have any part of the ducting either.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

bams50
07-02-2008, 03:02 PM
The fitting in the cowl is a plastic rectangular funnel with a 90 degree bend, as shown in the white engine compartment picture. The piece pushes into the opening and has an ear that wraps around the lip above it and is held in by two spring clips. Went out and looked at my Larks and here's what I found:

60- doesn't have
61 & 62 look the same
63- different cowl piece

There were a few in the NOS inventory I bought from a Stude dealership 2 years ago. I sold one to Jim Turner, and have two more- both of which I need for my 62s...

The hose looks to be a garden-variety 1" rubber hose, maybe a foot long. The cowl fitting is the tough part to find.

It would be a nice piece to see re-popped, being that most I've seen are shot. The ones that came off my 2 cars I'm working on just crumbled and came off in bits.



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

showbizkid
07-02-2008, 03:28 PM
Like Bams says, they're all pretty much toast after 40 years. Mine was sprayed black when the PO painted the engine compartment [xx(] and I'm afraid to touch it for fear the paint is the only thing holding the rubber together...


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

Dwain G.
07-02-2008, 10:29 PM
The drain you are missing was introduced in mid-late '61 production. The factory also sold it as a retro kit for early '61s. You might see if any vendor still has the kit #1339709. I would expect Sasco to be the most likely source.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/images/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

52-fan
07-03-2008, 04:24 PM
That sounds like the kind of number that might get overlooked by the masses. Like when my brother was disappointed to find that there were no more wiring harnesses for the C cab trucks and then someone put him onto the harnesses for the right hand drive versions. There were plenty of right hand drive harnesses. Almost the same,just with a different part number.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

DEEPNHOCK
07-03-2008, 05:53 PM
Well no kidding[|)]...
But if the lower bellhousing is holding water, it makes sense to allow the water to get out.
I know putting the correct hose on will stop 'that' water from getting in, but what about all the 'other' water?[:0]
It was just a common sense comment...
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by bams50

I would think it would be preferable to stop the water from
coming in in the first place.


What about adding a small drain hole in the bottom of the bellhousong?
Say...1/4" diameter..
Jeff[8D]

52-fan
07-03-2008, 07:56 PM
Drilling a hole in, or notching the bottom edge of, the dust cover shouldn't hurt and might help. It seems that some of my other brand cars have had a small hole in the dust cover. I will certainly cover the top hole in the bell.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

kpcoupe
07-03-2008, 10:22 PM
as far a other water getting in wouldn't the temp cause it to evaporate before it could build up?

Kevin Phillips
Jacksonville,AR
57 Silver Hawk

52-fan
07-04-2008, 10:38 AM
For a car driven every day it might not make as much difference. Also if the car was kept in a nice dry garage it wouldn't be in the rain much except when being driven. Unfortunately my car does meet either of those requirements.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

52-fan
09-02-2008, 08:29 PM
I thought I would post an update on the clutch situation. My brother and I caught the same day off Monday and pulled the engine. I thought I was being smart by getting pictures, but once again I forgot to check if I was on close-up. Anyway, you can get the idea.
I had the front cap off and most of the linkages and wires already disconnected several days ago. We started about 10:00 AM and I thought the engine would be out by noon. All we had to do was disconnect the exhaust, clutch linkage, and remove the carb and we would be ready. If you had asked me I would have guessed 2 hours to get the engine out would be plenty. [:p]
We got the exhaust off after I managed to break two of the studs. The clutch linkage took much longer to remove than I thought and the only part that came off like it should was the carb. We were in 2 hours already and stopped for lunch.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/S4010016-1.jpg
We nosed the car into the garage so we could have the engine hoist on a concrete floor. We attached the hoist and started lifting the engine and transmission, but the rear mount did not clear the cross member. [V] No problem we'll just remove the cross member because it needs some straightening anyway!
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/S4010017-1.jpg
The cross member removal was a nightmare! :( Joe started on one side and I on the other. A few of the nuts came off easily, but some were almost impossible. Both of us had a terrible time keeping a wrench on the bolt from the top while turning the ratchet from the bottom. Joe tried an air chisel with no success, ruined his Dremel tool and finally ground away enough of the last bolt with a air grinder to get it out. It was now about 6:30 and we were just beginning to lift the engine.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/S4010019.jpg
Finally we eased it out past the front cross member and away from the car! :D
Then another fight started. Although we unbolted the transmission it did not want to come out! After much tapping with a hammer and prying and pushing the transmission finally came free, bringing the throwout bearing with it. The throwout bearing sleeve was firmly stuck on the bearing retainer.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/S4010021.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/S4010022.jpg
When we got the bellhousing off we found the cross shaft stuck in it's place. It is now soaked with solvent waiting for disassembly.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/S4010024.jpg
At last, after carrying an engine block around behind the garage, moving the car back outside, putting up lots of tools and storing the parts I had removed, we were able to put Joe's truck back in the garage. Joe looked like he had mopped the floor and we were both sweaty and VERY tired! Notice it is now dark.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/S4010025.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/S4010026.jpg
We ate supper at about 8:00 PM. What a day! [:0]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

JDP
09-02-2008, 11:01 PM
Why do you guys keep pulling the X member when doing a swap ? I never have unless I intended to detail the darn thing or swap in a brand X engine.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

showbizkid
09-02-2008, 11:43 PM
Thanks for posting the pics and story, 52-fan. Like Deepnhock, I love seeing the "in process" photos! In this case, it all looks very familiar (except my fenders stayed on).

When you put it back together, that x-member will be just as much of a booger. You'll need to bolt in in loosely so you can move it around to allow the mounts to line up. By the way, SASCO still has some thicknesses of the rubber shims that go on the outboard bolts, if you need 'em.

Good luck!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

55pres
09-02-2008, 11:52 PM
Oh geez, I hate to be "that guy" BUT..... I hope no one was under that car when you had the front wheels up on concrete blocks, please say no.

Randy Wakefield
----------------------
1955 President sedan

"For the future that we wait..."

52-fan
09-03-2008, 12:14 PM
I would not have ordinarily pulled the cross member, but it is bent and needs straightening. I could have pulled the distributor so we would have had more jiggle room and gotten it out. It is the first time I ever pulled an engine with the transmission attached. If I had to do it again I would probably strip more of the engine ahead of time and not mess with the cross member, but once we started we hated to leave it half out.
What looks like concrete blocks in the fuzzy picture is blocks of wood nailed together and the car was well shaken and pushed before anyone went under it. A solid stack of wood like that won't collapse, but I am very aware of the possibility of the car coming off if it is not secure.
The attachment points for the body to the cross member will have to be rebuilt along with some of the floor before I can shim and adjust the fit. The rest of the floor is excellent.


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

mbstude
09-03-2008, 08:01 PM
A Stude mechanic friend sent me this...

Saw the thread about the "mouse hole" and cowl vent drain...
Here are some things you might add...
The early (61-2) indeed are different than the later (63 up) as the cowl changed completely in 63. The "tray" that attaches to the cowl with funky clips is not rubber (may have been at one time but I never seen one) but appears to be plastic that falls apart after all these years (imagine that!) and no longer holds the hose, which has a metal end sleeve that connects the hose and the tray. The tray have been
unobtainium for a while now, Danny and I tried to find one with no luck. It is hard to find in the parts book, I found it in a strange place and showed it to Danny but can't remember exactly where....think it was in the "accessory" section or in the back somewhere. I sure wish the tray would get repopped as EVERY 61 or 2 needs a new one! The later (63 up) hose has a formed end on it and doesn't use the stupid tray....
The "mouse hole" is not only for ventilation, it is a relic from the old days when you could stick a grease gun in it and grease the release bearing. ALSO....if the water is left in there for a long time it will fill up the tranny and kill it. The 3 speeders have no front seal, just return grooves....water goes right in. Water also rusts the discs to the shaft and the release bearing to the collar and makes the tranny a real bear to remove...
I like Jeffy's idea to drill a hole in the lower dust plate but many do cover the mouse hole with something. BTW, it isn't called a mouse hole for nothing, either! -George

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/andy-1.jpg

52-fan
09-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Maybe if I'm lucky, someone at the Branson show will have a 61 or 62 with a stock drain box I can look at. When I make a replacement I would like it to appear that it belongs and not just cobbled up.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s186/52-fan/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg
1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

gordr
09-05-2008, 10:52 AM
I didn't realize that the '61 and '62 cars used a different cowl drain than the '63 and later ones.

If authenticity is not an issue, now is the time to fabricate a replacement for the unobtainium part. I'm not a big fan of the later-style drain hose, either. It has two drawbacks: one, the end is formed like a grommet, so it can really only drain the cowl down to the lower edge of the I.D. of the hose, leaving a residue in the cowl, and secondly, a drain in the center is really only effective if the car sits 100% level. The best setup, IMHO, would be to have drains on both ends of the ventilator box, formed as depressions in its floor.

As far as the mousehole in the bellhousing goes, seems to me it would be prudent to fabricate a little cap for it, like a louver. Envision a shallow tray of sheet metal 2" by 2", with a 3/8" flange on 3 sides. Make it 1/4" deep. Form it to the curvature of the bellhousing, and screw it on over the mousehole using 6 little self-tapping screws, the open side pointed down, of course. It could be sealed with silicone so water couldn't seep in from the topside. Would still provide a little ventilation, although I note that other makes do not ventilate their bellhousings.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands