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curt
08-12-2006, 05:43 PM
On my 1955 President State the purple colored return springs are too stiff. They are aprox 3 1/2 inches long. The old springs are aprox 3 3/4 inches long. I'm not over streaching the spring and can not quite get them on.I have bent TWO 'finger hooks' where the return spring attaches to the brake shoe. Two venders say the purple springs are correct. Someone said I should have a Green colored Spring. Any one have green return springs or a source to get them???? I do note the Purple springs are not only shorter but thicker than my old return springs. Being a used vehicle I may have the wrong old spring. Any comments or advice about my situation?

bondobilly
08-12-2006, 07:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by curt
Someone said I should have a Green colored Spring. Any one have green return springs or a source to get them???? I do note the Purple springs are not only shorter but thicker than my old return springs. Being a used vehicle I may have the wrong old spring. Any comments or advice about my situation?

I got a can of green paint :)

http://bondobilly.com./1sdc.jpg Proud owner of the Hawk from Hell

curt
08-12-2006, 08:20 PM
Bill, with my luck on this project your can of green paint will be the wrong color.[V]

N8N
08-12-2006, 08:26 PM
Curt,

I don't know what the purple springs would be used for; I show a black spring with a free length of 3-23/32" for the rear of 6-cylinder cars, all other 6-cyl. front and V-8 F&R should use a green spring with 3-57/64" free length, studebaker part no. 535160, Wagner part no. 36428 more info on my web site (the brake section is a little sketchy, but most of the hardware came right off the Wagner web site so should work)

good luck

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Roscomacaw
08-12-2006, 08:35 PM
My old car book from NAPA lists their house brand (United) return springs for ALL Stude cars from '54 thru'66 as United #80321 (axle set - which means you should get 4 springs with that number)[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

ROADRACELARK
08-12-2006, 09:03 PM
Bob,
As usual, you're right on the money.;) IMMIC, I think Bendix makes the brake parts for NAPIE under the United label. It may very well cross over to other brands.:) Later
Dan

Road Racers turn left AND right.

farmhawk
08-12-2006, 11:40 PM
I just installed brakes all the way around on my 61 Hawk. I used the purple springs from SASCO and they fit fine. I know after I ordered them I ran across an article some saying I should be using green springs , but no problems.

61 Hawk

curt
08-13-2006, 10:28 AM
I have the black spring,they work fine,I will check out the numbers Mr. Biggs and N8N have supplied. Farmhawk, how do you stretch those purple springs? Just as I get one about to go over the bolt, the spring flies and after a few tries the attaching tab on the brake shoe is bent perpendicular to the brake shoe. My arm is strong and I have brake spring pliers.

bondobilly
08-13-2006, 10:00 PM
[quote]Originally posted by curt

I have the black spring,they work fine,I will check out the numbers Mr. Biggs and N8N have supplied. Farmhawk, how do you stretch those purple springs?

Have you tried assembling the brakes by putting everything together up on top of the backing plate, and then attaching the lower spring that goes over the adjuster. Thats how I do it, as it gives you more mechanical advantage, down at the bottom, and stretches the upper return spring further than you can trying to pull it.

Then you can move the entire assembly up down/left right. to center on the lower block.The other advantage in using the lower spring, is in removal of the brakes. By taking the lower srpring off first, and then the pivot pins, the entire assembly comes off as a unit.

BG

BG

http://bondobilly.com./1sdc.jpg Proud owner of the Hawk from Hell

farmhawk
08-14-2006, 12:13 AM
I installed them pretty much the way BondoBilly describes it.

61 Hawk

curt
08-14-2006, 07:48 AM
That is how I will try, that is how the book says to do it. I failed once with this method but will try that method again. All the help is great,thanks.:) I should be ready for Omaha.

N8N
08-14-2006, 03:18 PM
If I'm understanding Bill's post correctly, I've been installing the brake shoes a completely different way (that still works for me every time)

1) with wheel cylinder, anchor plate, and wheel cylinder pushrods already installed, install one shoe on backing plate.
2) hold the other shoe roughly in position and install the lower spring, put star wheel adjuster assembly in place by crossing the top of the loose shoe over the installed shoe, then put the loose shoe in place and install "nail" and clip.
3) install return springs - hook lower end on shoe, hook other end over the shank of a thin, flat blade screwdriver. Set the screwdriver on the opposite side of the anchor pin and lever it out. Spring will slide down shank of screwdriver and snap into place.
4) reinstall drums, adjust and bleed etc.

FWIW I have to admit that I have not tried to purchase new springs as both of my cars that I have done brake jobs on have had springs that appeared to be in good condition and I did verify that they were properly retracting the shoes. I know that that is not the right thing to do but I can only afford to replace so much stuff!

hope this helps,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

farmhawk
08-14-2006, 10:30 PM
I have to confess with the brake job I did on my Hawk, I had all of the backing plates off the car and on the bench. I am in the middle of a frame off restoration so it was alot easier doing the brakes this way.:)

61 Hawk

studegary
08-15-2006, 02:42 PM
Nate/N8N - I have been doing it your way for about as long as you have been alive <G>. I guess that our minds work alike <G>. I don't know what the books say, but this is the system that I used working in a garage and later working with a mechanic that had been the chief mechanic at a Studebaker dealership.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

N8N
08-15-2006, 03:14 PM
I can't take credit for that one, JDP showed me how to do it that way after watching me put the brakes together on my first Stude... I just automatically grabbed the brake spring pliers from the roll cabinet and after a couple rounds of streeeeettttch... TWANG! (curse) streeeeettttch... TWANG! (curse) streeeeettttch... TWANG! (curse) etc. etc. etc. he came over with a screwdriver and had the whole thing together in about a minute :)

I dunno how well that method works on other cars; only other cars I've rebuilt drums on were old VW's (completely different setup) and my '67 Dart (so long ago I don't really remember it)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

curt
08-20-2006, 06:41 PM
Bondobillies way worked. Attach the top spring to the shoe and post and leverage off the upper post, put the pin in; then do the other shoe the same way. Place the adjuster in its slots and then do the lower spring. Then push it all down into place. The color of springs was correct. Any other method of attaching the springs , in my hands, spelled PROBLEMS. Thank for all the help. I have been slow on this job, hurt the old back,that will slow young or old down. Thanks again.

White over yellow 1955 President.:):D[:I]:D

bondobilly
08-20-2006, 10:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by curt

Bondobillies way worked. Attach the top spring to the shoe and post and leverage off the upper post, put the pin in; then do the other shoe the same way.
Then you don't need the paint?

BG

http://bondobilly.com./1sdc.jpg Proud owner of the Hawk from Hell

curt
08-20-2006, 10:09 PM
No paint needed, hope to see you at the National.

Dwain G.
08-20-2006, 11:47 PM
Most brake spring pliers will have a kerf cut into one of the handle ends. It's there to be used the same way Nate used the screwdriver. A little dab of white lube on backing plate contacts and the ends of each spring helps prevent squeaks, helps the springs go on a little easier, and makes them last longer.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/9GQ2.jpg
Dwain G.