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View Full Version : Recommended engine oil for R2 63 avanti



redbox
04-16-2008, 06:19 PM
I've done a lot of searching on all the posts, so I will start this all over again.

Which brand and rating of engine oil are you using with R2 '63 engines?



'56J
'53 Willys wagon
'02 Boxster
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc17/redbox02/DSC02155copy.jpg

63 R2 Avanti on the way

StudeMichael
04-16-2008, 07:13 PM
Valvoline 10w30

1957 Packard Clipper
1958 Golden Hawk
1963 Daytona Convertible
1963 R2 Daytona
1963 R2 GT Hawk
1963 R1 Wagonaire
1963 R4 Avanti
1964 Champ
1966 Cruiser

JDP
04-16-2008, 07:42 PM
Any CI-4 rated Diesel oil, or you may wipe a cam.

JDP/Maryland

Silent Bob
04-16-2008, 08:55 PM
Summer 20W-50

Winter 10W-30

Brand - makes no difference as long it has detergent.

If you plan to race it use Synthetic.

StudeRich
04-17-2008, 03:10 AM
So Silent; have you not heard about the ZDDP extreme pressure additives that before Nov. 2006 protected our lifters and Camshafts being removed from all regular oils? :(

We have been talking about that here for over a year, search "ZDDP" :)

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

DEEPNHOCK
04-17-2008, 01:23 PM
Here is what I run in all my old stuff...and why.
Jeff[8D]

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644#top


quote:Originally posted by redbox

I've done a lot of searching on all the posts, so I will start this all over again.
Which brand and rating of engine oil are you using with R2 '63 engines?


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/1937CEBearfootingArtwithLabelgif-1.jpg http://www.racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpg http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Silent Bob
04-17-2008, 03:34 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

So Silent; have you not heard about the ZDDP extreme pressure additives that before Nov. 2006 protected our lifters and Camshafts being removed from all regular oils? :(

We have been talking about that here for over a year, search "ZDDP" :)

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA


Yep, heard all about it.

The question is - does it make a difference? Maybe it does for cars that see 12000 miles per year or those under extreme stress like racing. But, I have not seen evidence of any engine fail in a collector car that sees the car show circuit. Many people remember the GM engines in the 80s that has cam shaft failure but that was proven to be poor oil supply to the cam lobes.

DEEPNHOCK
04-17-2008, 04:04 PM
Well, That's a hoot...
Is that what you do with your Stude's?
Show circuit trailer queen?
Ok for you, I guess.
I, for one, drive mine a lot.
(This is a drivers club...)
And if the oil companies reformulated their oil compounds for later engines with roller cams, and the new oil will damage my camshaft....
Do you think I am going to wait around and do nothing until my cam is shot?
Or just say it won't happen to my cam because it hasn't happened yet?
(and Stude camshafts aren't reproducing real well right now)..
Your attitude may serve you well, but it does not help the majority of active Studebaker drivers.
While I won't get into a frenzy of oil anxiety, I will buy an oil that suits my needs and does the job.....well.
Just my opinion.
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Silent Bob
Yep, heard all about it.
The question is - does it make a difference? Maybe it does for cars that see 12000 miles per year or those under extreme stress like racing. But, I have not seen evidence of any engine fail in a collector car that sees the car show circuit. Many people remember the GM engines in the 80s that has cam shaft failure but that was proven to be poor oil supply to the cam lobes.

stugatsr2
04-17-2008, 04:17 PM
Rottella 10w30--diesel oil

LarkVIII
04-17-2008, 06:21 PM
Jeff,have you had problems with leaks with the 20W50? I know some of the synthetics are known to seep through where regular oil won't,but they are mostly 0W20 or 10W30. I normally run 15W40 diesel.


quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

Here is what I run in all my old stuff...and why.
Jeff[8D]

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644#top


quote:Originally posted by redbox

I've done a lot of searching on all the posts, so I will start this all over again.
Which brand and rating of engine oil are you using with R2 '63 engines?


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/1937CEBearfootingArtwithLabelgif-1.jpg http://www.racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpg http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock



63VY4 Leakin' Lena Hagerstown MD

Lenny R2
04-17-2008, 10:40 PM
I have been using Shell Rotella 15-40 diesel ci-4plus in my
R2 Avanti.When i change my oil this weekend i am also going to
add a 4 oz bottle of ZDDPlus that i bought from Jon Myer.i think
a little extra wont hurt.

Lenny
Atlanta Ga.

DEEPNHOCK
04-18-2008, 09:09 AM
(warning...long reply[:0])

quote:Originally posted by LarkVIII

Jeff,have you had problems with leaks with the 20W50? I know some of the synthetics are known to seep through where regular oil won't,but they are mostly 0W20 or 10W30. I normally run 15W40 diesel.


No more than normal;)
As a former seal and bearing factory rep I was trained pretty well in what a synthetic lube can do in a former fossil based environment.
Where problems tended (note the past tense useage) to occur is using a pure synthetic lube on a brand new engine, and on gear oil lubed large truck hubs.
On the engine side, there was a break in period where the piston rings and cylinders needed a fossil based oil.
After that period, a synthetic lube could be successfully used.
As far as the truck hubs go, it was use one style lube [u]or</u> the other, but don't switch in the middle, as the seal would be conditioned and coated with fossil lube and the switch to synthetic would cause some seal leakage.
Note that truck hubs are using a 'gear lube' and not a 'motor oil'.
Same thing could occur on an engine that had long term use of fossil based oil and then switched to synthetic.
But....And it is a big 'but'..
The problem had more to do with the material the seal (in this case a timing cover crank seal, or a 2 piece rear main seal.
The oil companies were made aware of this 'seal conditioning' issue and most of them now formulate their lubes differently to minimize this issue.
Most of problems in the HD trucking industry were with high pressure additives added to extend gear life.
The rules still apply to gear oil in the trucking industry, so they 'should' be considered when replacing manual transmission and differential gear oil.
Especially older transmissions with bronze bushings.
The newer gear oil with 'EP' additives can be hard on the bronze (or brass) parts.
I switched to the Castrol specifically for the additive package, as I do not want to chase little bottles at every oil change on every piece of equipment I run.
And I run it in most everything I have.
But (there he goes again with the 'but' ;).....
I live in SE Georgia where it is pretty warm most of the year, and my stuff doesn't mind a 20w base stock motor oil.
I have seen no difference in leakage running the 20w50.
Remember, the 20 part of 20w50 id the pour characteristic.
The 50 part of 20w50 is the pressure additive chemicals.
So it will always 'flow' like a 20w, but it will 'protect' like a 50w.
Here at Deep-N-Hock Acres, everything gets the oil changes at the change of every season.
(I prefer months to miles as a maintenance interval).
And I don't keep a detailed logbook to try to remember when it's time for this tractor, or that car.
It's easier to just change them the first of spring, etc.
Sure, some pieces of equipment are probably over serviced, but I have only lost one rod bearing in my life.....
(and that was in 1972 on a well maintained 60,000 mile Stude 289 that had STP faithfully added at every oil change....from day one).
I rebuilt that engine, and when I tore it apart I was flabbergasted at the amount of silly putty gook in that engine. A chunk of that gook tore loose and jammed in the oil gallery up front and starved the fron rod journal.
Lesson learned.
Since then, I have never added a drop of STP (or any other additive) to anything I have ever owned.
Never have had a single engine failure since then either.
(bad Ju-ju Jeff...bad ju-ju...)
Still, it is a good question to ask.
I guess you just have to separate the sales pitch from fact.
My choice has always been experience based. My experience.
You should gather your own facts and make your own choice.
Hope the info helps,
Jeff[8D]
[img]http://i77.photobucke

LarkVIII
04-18-2008, 10:36 AM
Thanks Jeff,my only concern was more than normal leakage in a Stude.Oil and coolant is about the only things that don't leak now.Steering lube is another story...

63VY4 Leakin' Lena Hagerstown MD

Zitt
05-04-2008, 10:07 PM
You should tell us exactly how you feel about this subject!



quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

Well, That's a hoot...
Is that what you do with your Stude's?
Show circuit trailer queen?
Ok for you, I guess.
I, for one, drive mine a lot.
(This is a drivers club...)
And if the oil companies reformulated their oil compounds for later engines with roller cams, and the new oil will damage my camshaft....
Do you think I am going to wait around and do nothing until my cam is shot?
Or just say it won't happen to my cam because it hasn't happened yet?
(and Stude camshafts aren't reproducing real well right now)..
Your attitude may serve you well, but it does not help the majority of active Studebaker drivers.
While I won't get into a frenzy of oil anxiety, I will buy an oil that suits my needs and does the job.....well.
Just my opinion.
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Silent Bob
Yep, heard all about it.
The question is - does it make a difference? Maybe it does for cars that see 12000 miles per year or those under extreme stress like racing. But, I have not seen evidence of any engine fail in a collector car that sees the car show circuit. Many people remember the GM engines in the 80s that has cam shaft failure but that was proven to be poor oil supply to the cam lobes.

Zitt
05-04-2008, 10:10 PM
You should tell us your true feelings.



quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

(warning...long reply[:0])
[quote]quote:Originally posted by LarkVIII

Jeff,have you had problems with leaks with the 20W50? I know some of the synthetics are known to seep through where regular oil won't,but they are mostly 0W20 or 10W30. I normally run 15W40 diesel.

[b]
No more than normal;)
As a former seal and bearing factory rep I was trained pretty well in what a synthetic lube can do in a former fossil based environment.
Where problems tended (note the past tense useage) to occur is using a pure synthetic lube on a brand new engine, and on gear oil lubed large truck hubs.
On the engine side, there was a break in period where the piston rings and cylinders needed a fossil based oil.
After that period, a synthetic lube could be successfully used.
As far as the truck hubs go, it was use one style lube [u]or</u> the other, but don't switch in the middle, as the seal would be conditioned and coated with fossil lube and the switch to synthetic would cause some seal leakage.
Note that truck hubs are using a 'gear lube' and not a 'motor oil'.
Same thing could occur on an engine that had long term use of fossil based oil and then switched to synthetic.
But....And it is a big 'but'..
The problem had more to do with the material the seal (in this case a timing cover crank seal, or a 2 piece rear main seal.
The oil companies were made aware of this 'seal conditioning' issue and most of them now formulate their lubes differently to minimize this issue.
Most of problems in the HD trucking industry were with high pressure additives added to extend gear life.
The rules still apply to gear oil in the trucking industry, so they 'should' be considered when replacing manual transmission and differential gear oil.
Especially older transmissions with bronze bushings.
The newer gear oil with 'EP' additives can be hard on the bronze (or brass) parts.
I switched to the Castrol specifically for the additive package, as I do not want to chase little bottles at every oil change on every piece of equipment I run.
And I run it in most everything I have.
But (there he goes again with the 'but' ;).....
I live in SE Georgia where it is pretty warm most of the year, and my stuff doesn't mind a 20w base stock motor oil.
I have seen no difference in leakage running the 20w50.
Remember, the 20 part of 20w50 id the pour characteristic.
The 50 part of 20w50 is the pressure additive chemicals.
So it will always 'flow' like a 20w, but it will 'protect' like a 50w.
Here at Deep-N-Hock Acres, everything gets the oil changes at the change of every season.
(I prefer months to miles as a maintenance interval).
And I don't keep a detailed logbook to try to remember when it's time for this tractor, or that car.
It's easier to just change them the first of spring, etc.
Sure, some pieces of equipment are probably over serviced, but I have only lost one rod bearing in my life.....
(and that was in 1972 on a well maintained 60,000 mile Stude 289 that had STP faithfully added at every oil change....from day one).
I rebuilt that engine, and when I tore it apart I was flabbergasted at the amount of silly putty gook in that engine. A chunk of that gook tore loose and jammed in the oil gallery up front and starved the fron rod journal.
Lesson learned.
Since then, I have never added a drop of STP (or any other additive) to anything I have ever owned.
Never have had a single engine failure since then either.
(bad Ju-ju Jeff...bad ju-ju...)
Still, it is a good question to ask.
I guess you just have to separate the sales pitch

StudeRich
05-05-2008, 02:46 AM
Thank you Jeff for telling us how you really feel and why, I really don't care if some people can't accept the truth! [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

63Avanti
05-05-2008, 08:47 AM
I agree with Deep... more on my rationale at http://systems.engineering.associates.com/avocation.

One point, STP should be used to demonstrate loyalty to the Studebaker company. As an additive, it is basically 50w with inconsequential additives. Do not take my word for it, look up the VOA for any STP product.


Terry, North Texas
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
(in stage 1 resto "Project A")
http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
1999 Toyota rice burner
1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

New resolution.
I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

63Avanti
05-05-2008, 08:55 AM
I agree with Deep... more on my rationale at http://systems.engineering.associates.com/avocation.
bottom line, if you are adding additives...you have wrong oil!!!!!

One point, STP should be used to demonstrate loyalty to the Studebaker company. As an additive, it is basically 50w with inconsequential additives. Do not take my word for it, look up the VOA for any STP product.


Terry, North Texas
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
(in stage 1 resto "Project A")
http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
1999 Toyota rice burner
1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

New resolution.
I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...


Terry, North Texas
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
(in stage 1 resto "Project A")
http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
1999 Toyota rice burner
1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

New resolution.
I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

fmarshall
05-16-2008, 04:27 PM
I run Kendall GT-1 20W-50W in my R2. And I run Redline Synthetic Type F in the Paxton.

========================
63 Avanti R2, 4-Speed, 3.73 TT
Martinez, CA