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studemaker
04-01-2008, 08:04 PM
Howdy All! As I have always been a little crazy..... I have made the plan for my '59 4E3 Deluxe Scotsman. I had planned a restoration to stock, but with the original engine, transmission missing. I have decided to go with an idea I was contemplating after getting the truck. A dual McCullough blown 289. I have a complete blower setup from '58 Golden Hawk, and have recently acquired the second VS57s. Heres a picture of my inspiration. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/studemaker/DualVS57s.jpg While I wont be using a dual quad setup like this 312, My plan is to use a 2x2 setup instead. I have a couple of different 2x2 intakes available, an Edmunds, and a VSD. As I am still in the planning stages, I am unsure which will get used yet. I would like to take two, GH aluminum airboxes and TIG them together to create a single airbox that would fit the 2x2. I will still need to acquire the second GH airbox if I go this route. If not, I will need to fab some bonnets for the Strombergs, but will I run into sealing problems with them? Am I going to run into problems on the variable rate pullies and solenoids in tandem, etc. Will the compression ratio need to be lowered with the addition of the second blower? If so, how much? Soooo many questions! Any ideas on the build would be appreciated. Thanks Tim

<div align="left">Tim Stevens Big Sky Country, Montana '59 4E7-122 Deluxe '59 4E3-112 Deluxe Scotsman '59 Silver Hawk '57 Parkview Wagon '41 Double Dater Coupe</div id="left"> http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/studemaker/Mergatroid/Mergatroid.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
04-01-2008, 08:49 PM
I like it, Tim [:p]. Something a little different when you open the hood [8D]. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I would think if you keep the boost low (&lt;5 pounds?) that problems should be minimal. It seems to be more "the look" that you are after rather than max performance...your plan will certainly get the looks!

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

JDP
04-01-2008, 08:58 PM
Forget the two pressure box idea, no room on the manifold. Use a pressure modified 4 barrel with a Y on the air horn to the two blowers. You could do it with 2 fours too, but not in a box.

JDP/Maryland

Dick Steinkamp
04-01-2008, 09:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Forget the two pressure box idea, no room on the manifold.


It sounded like Tim's main idea is to make a bigger, single air box to fit both carbs. Tim's got some very good fabrication skills. I bet that will be the "easy" part for him. A single 4 barrel would most likely work better, but wouldn't have the same "cool factor". :D

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

studemaker
04-01-2008, 09:04 PM
BINGO;)

<div align="left">Tim Stevens Big Sky Country, Montana '59 4E7-122 Deluxe '59 4E3-112 Deluxe Scotsman '59 Silver Hawk '57 Parkview Wagon '41 Double Dater Coupe</div id="left"> http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/studemaker/Mergatroid/Mergatroid.jpg

JDP
04-01-2008, 09:19 PM
Man, you will have to be skilled to do that. I think it would be easier to scratch build a box, since I have no idea how you'd refab the two bases to seal since the gasket surfaces won't match up.

JDP/Maryland

N8N
04-02-2008, 07:43 AM
I don't know that you would get a whole lot of benefit from two blowers in parallel, I'm thinking two blowers in series blowing into an R3 pressure box with a 4bbl is what most "dual blower" guys are doing. that way you get 10+ PSI of boost into the carb. reference boost pressure to fuel pump (if still using mechanical pump) or FPR (if using electric pump) comes from the last blower in the chain.

I have never done this, but I think Karl Sparks reads this forum occasionally and I think Ted Harbit was running a similar setup on the Chicken Hawk before he switched to turbos.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

studemaker
04-02-2008, 07:55 AM
Fabbing a box, bonnet, or bonnets shouldn't be the most difficult problem to solve in the long term, and will do what is appropriate when I get to thet stage of the project. I would like to go with the 2x2, because, well... as Dick said because of the look, and see no real problems with the idea. After all, I am just doubling the early Golden Hawks carburation, CFM, and am still basically building an R2, just with 2 bbl's rather than a single 4bbl. I guess the information I am really searching for from those with blower knowledge would be the pros and cons of, would it be better to go with fixed pully system like the Paxtons had, or would the solenoid system still be usable in tandem? How much full time boost for the pair would be usable if fixed. If so, what diameters for the Paxton pullies? Ideas, or photos of Paxton mounts to use for reference, for fabricating the mounts, since I dont have a later Paxton side mount. Would appreciate any and all input on this. Thanks, Tim

<div align="left">Tim Stevens Big Sky Country, Montana '59 4E7-122 Deluxe '59 4E3-112 Deluxe Scotsman '59 Silver Hawk '57 Parkview Wagon '41 Double Dater Coupe</div id="left"> http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/studemaker/Mergatroid/Mergatroid.jpg

DEEPNHOCK
04-02-2008, 08:01 AM
Note that your chosen pic is a blow through setup.
Sonny also had the dual GH blower setup idea a few years ago, and one visit up to Buffoonalo, we took the dual deuce 'Twin H' clone setup and set the GH air boxes on the dual deuce intake.
http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/41395/1263299961038087468S600x600Q85.jpg
I won't say it can't be done, but the air inlet for the rear carb box hits the front air box real hard.
One of two things needs to happen to get the air boxes packaged properly.
(1) Offset spacers for both carbs
http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/26921/1263300549038087468S600x600Q85.jpg
(Move the front a 1/2" to the right and the rear a 1/2" to the left.
or...
(2) Adapter plates to mount the carbs 'twisted' a little to align the air inlet.
I have built the adapters in my mind several times and I think the parrallel offset adapter plates would be the easiest (and the lowest). That would make the throttle linkage a whole lot easier.
Here's bunch of mock up pic's if you want to see them.
http://rides.webshots.com/album/263293310NXufNX
Sounds like a fun project.
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by studemaker

Howdy All! As I have always been a little crazy..... I have made the plan for my '59 4E3 Deluxe Scotsman. I had planned a restoration to stock, but with the original engine, transmission missing. I have decided to go with an idea I was contemplating after getting the truck. A dual McCullough blown 289. I have a complete blower setup from '58 Golden Hawk, and have recently acquired the second VS57s. Heres a picture of my inspiration.
&lt;snip&gt;

studemaker
04-02-2008, 08:51 PM
Great Stuff Jeff, much appreciated! Would it be a possibility to get a center to center of carb mount measurement on your manifold? I am hoping that my 2x2 intakes are approx. the same dimension as yours. Looking at the pics, the two boxes will work for fit, but will just need to be modified. It also looks as though it would be possible to leave them on the original mounts, but curf the inlets of the boxes to obtain the desired angles and TIG them back. Another option looking at the pics would be like I had originally planned, remove the rear inlet and close the opening, and TIG a 3" aluminum tube between the airboxes to make them a single airtight unit. Then Y into the front box with both blowers. Linkages look like they will be a piece of cake to fabricate. Thanks again for the input, Great Stuff! Still would like to get some information, pictures of the Paxton mounts, ideas on pressure totals, and fixed vs. variable pully ideas, if anyone has some input. Thanks, Tim

<div align="left">Tim Stevens Big Sky Country, Montana '59 4E7-122 Deluxe '59 4E3-112 Deluxe Scotsman '59 Silver Hawk '57 Parkview Wagon '41 Double Dater Coupe</div id="left"> http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/studemaker/Mergatroid/Mergatroid.jpg

DEEPNHOCK
04-02-2008, 09:30 PM
If you have the ability to cut out the rear air inlet, modify it and weld it back on (tig), then I will tell you that the air boxes will bolt onto the intake manifold.
You won't be able to adjust the idle mixture screws on the rear carb, but the boxes will fit.
Adapter plates are great, if you can stand the height they bring, or mill some off the top of the intake itself (which there seems to be a lot of elevation to play with.
Anything is possible...
Try doing a few passes of tig welding inside the air box to see what it takes to weld them.. Won't show from the outside after you polish the boxes.
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by studemaker

Great Stuff Jeff, much appreciated! Would it be a possibility to get a center to center of carb mount measurement on your manifold? I am hoping that my 2x2 intakes are approx. the same dimension as yours. Looking at the pics, the two boxes will work for fit, but will just need to be modified. It also looks as though it would be possible to leave them on the original mounts, but curf the inlets of the boxes to obtain the desired angles and TIG them back. Another option looking at the pics would be like I had originally planned, remove the rear inlet and close the opening, and TIG a 3" aluminum tube between the airboxes to make them a single airtight unit. Then Y into the front box with both blowers. Linkages look like they will be a piece of cake to fabricate. Thanks again for the input, Great Stuff! Still would like to get some information, pictures of the Paxton mounts, ideas on pressure totals, and fixed vs. variable pully ideas, if anyone has some input. Thanks, Tim

<div align="left">Tim Stevens Big Sky Country, Montana '59 4E7-122 Deluxe '59 4E3-112 Deluxe Scotsman '59 Silver Hawk '57 Parkview Wagon '41 Double Dater Coupe</div id="left"> http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/studemaker/Mergatroid/Mergatroid.jpg

studemaker
04-03-2008, 07:42 AM
Thanks Jeff! Going back and looking at my own mock up, and your pictures. I see now what your saying about the mixture screws and offsetting the boxes on adapter plates. Height clearance under the hood of the '59 shouldn't be a problem with them. It won't be a easy as first thought, but still looks do-able. Thanks again for your advice, pictures, and input, it is very much appreciated. Tim

<div align="left">Tim Stevens Big Sky Country, Montana '59 4E7-122 Deluxe '59 4E3-112 Deluxe Scotsman '59 Silver Hawk '57 Parkview Wagon '41 Double Dater Coupe</div id="left"> http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/studemaker/Mergatroid/Mergatroid.jpg

Jeffrotech
04-04-2008, 06:47 PM
Tying both boxes together is a great idea - give balance between the 2 S/C's, and adds volume to the box. Anything you can do to add to the volume will help. The air mass will "stack-up" above the carbs.

My guess? 10psi.

Good luck on the fab. Hope you're melting tires soon! [:p]