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Studeman
03-31-2008, 04:00 PM
I am in the process of restoring a '64 R2 GT Full-package car.
The owner and I have been discussing wheels lately... and he wishes to install real wire wheels. The style he likes has a 15" x 7" as the narrowest choice with the correct bolt pattern (McLeans). The backspacing is 3 5/8".
Is anyone running 7" wheels with 205 or 215 75R-15 tires? Any Clearance issues on a C/K?
I have run several different 6" wide wheels... without issue until I got up to 225's for tires.

What is the correct whitewall width for '64's? I'm getting conflicting info... Does anyone have actual Stude documentation on this?

Thanks,
Ray

http://www.ncsdc.com/TEMP/azavatar.gif
Specializing in Studebaker Restoration

Dick Steinkamp
03-31-2008, 04:11 PM
The Coker catalog says that for '62-'64 a 1" or less whitewall is correct.

My guess is that there is not enough backspacing in those wheels for them to fit on the rear without jacking up the rear and/or using a 205 60 or something like that. 3" of front space is about max in my experience.

I know the customer is the customer, but if those McLeans are the ones I'm thinking of, they are a little goofy looking on a GT IMHO...

http://www.starwheel.com/wheelpages/mclean/wheels/100spk.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

JDP
03-31-2008, 04:13 PM
205/75x15 with a 1 inch whitewall will work on the wheels you mention. I bought my radials from Coker tire. Here's the correct one inch whites on my old GT (15x7 mag wheels) BTW, I agree with Dick that those wires on a GT are a bit much. A bit too much pimping for my taste.

http://www.stude.com/Bermuda/main8.jpg

JDP/Maryland

N8N
03-31-2008, 04:31 PM
3-5/8" is not enough backspace to really make that work; you need something like 1/2" to 3/4" offset to run a 7" wheel with appropriately wide tires. You'll probably end up limited to running 205s or 215s at the most with the wheels you mention. not sure if they'd even work. can you find a set of junkyard rims with the same specs?

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

JDP
03-31-2008, 04:42 PM
That's all I could run on the Hawk pictured with 3 5/8's backspace.

JDP/Maryland

Studeman
03-31-2008, 04:54 PM
Actually, this is the wheel (80 spoke), though I am trying to get him into the 72-spoke T-Bird/Chrysler (more widths).
McLeans: http://www.mcleanwheels.com/images/bolt-on-se.jpg T-Bird: http://www.classicwirewheels.us/images/tBirdWhl1.png
With these spinners:
http://www.mcleanwheels.com/images/45.jpg

JDP- any clearance issues with your 7" mags? How was the sidewall on the 205's? I like to match the wheel width - with the tire ratio, so the sidewalls don't bulge. Having the sidewall as vertical as possible to emulate the old bias-ply tires. I hate a tire too small for the rim...

Dick... Customers... can't live with 'em (some of their decisions [:0])... can't live without them... (they are paying my bills)

N8N- I have already tried 7's (3.5" BS) w/ 205-70R15 on the rear of a Hawk without issue. Though it was very close on ONE side... but better on the other. No rubbing though.

Ray



http://www.ncsdc.com/TEMP/azavatar.gif
Specializing in Studebaker Restoration

N8N
03-31-2008, 07:17 PM
If you want to stick with 205's that might be OK. I've got 245's on mine however :) I wouldn't want to try it with that little backspace.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

JDP
03-31-2008, 07:29 PM
I don't recall any issues, but they were close both front and rear.

JDP/Maryland

Dick Steinkamp
03-31-2008, 07:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studeman
I am trying to get him into the 72-spoke T-Bird/Chrysler (more widths).
T-Bird: http://www.classicwirewheels.us/images/tBirdWhl1.png



Yea! Those T-Bird wheels are perfect [:p].

Let us know if we need to gang up on him. ;)

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

S2DSteve
03-31-2008, 08:24 PM
Especially when you include the Studebaker hubcap option.:)
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u57/S2DSteve/Convert051.jpg

Steve Hudson
The Dalles, Oregon
1937 Dictator Flatback sedan (for sale)
1949 "GMOBaker" 1-T Dually (workhorse)
1953 Commander Convertible (show & go)
1953 Champion Starliner (custom/rod project)
1954 Champion Coupe (daily driver)
1960 Hawk (future project?)

fstst56
03-31-2008, 09:01 PM
I bought some 15 x 8's at South Bend last May. I didn't think they would fit, but the price was too good to pass up. They fit on my '53 coupe with no problems, but I don't know what the backspacing is. I am running a narrow tire, which I don't really like the looks of but am afraid to try any much wider. If money is no object, I like the T-bird wheels the best.

Dick Steinkamp
03-31-2008, 10:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by fstst56

I bought some 15 x 8's at South Bend last May. I didn't think they would fit, but the price was too good to pass up. They fit on my '53 coupe with no problems, but I don't know what the backspacing is.


IMHO they would have to have 5" of backspacing to fit the rear, which would be very strange...and then they wouldn't have even a chance to fit on the front without hitting steering parts. Are you sure you are measuring them correctly? The width is measured BETWEEN the flanges...

https://www.rsracing.com/images/tech-wheelfit1.gif

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Allan Songer
04-01-2008, 12:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by fstst56

I bought some 15 x 8's at South Bend last May. I didn't think they would fit, but the price was too good to pass up. They fit on my '53 coupe with no problems, but I don't know what the backspacing is.


IMHO they would have to have 5" of backspacing to fit the rear, which would be very strange...and then they wouldn't have even a chance to fit on the front without hitting steering parts. Are you sure you are measuring them correctly? The width is measured BETWEEN the flanges...




I am having a devil of time finding a 7" wheel (let alone an 8" one) that will fit the back of the '56 Champion. A 7" rim will work with 4 3/4" backspacing--good luck finding one! But that same wheel won't even come CLOSE to working on the front end--4" backspacing is max, but I'd be far more comforatable with 3 5/8" or 3 3/4" --which means a 6" wheel for the front or MAYBE 6 1/2".

So, I'm going with 6" wheels with 4" backspacing on the rear and 6" wheels with 3 5/8" backspacing on the front. If Taylor Made isn't a whole lot cheaper than Stockton Wheel, I'm going to buy 5-spoke Halibrands, a set of which can be had for around $600. I'd go with American Racing Torq-Thrusts, but you can't get them with a 4" backspacing.

I will run 225/70 tires on the back and 215/70 on the front.

Jerry Forrester
04-01-2008, 07:49 AM
Here's what I have on the rear of Leo the '55 HT. One half inch clearance on inside and out.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/jerrystudebaker/LRWheel2.jpg

And my photo posting test using img in caps.

Jerry Forrester
Douglasville, Georgia
Be sure to check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/CHROME-CHROME-CHROME_ and my EZ33 store http://tinyurl.com/2g2j88
for your shiny Stude stuff

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/jerrystudebaker/11Sept2007e.jpg
More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu

Captain Billy
04-01-2008, 08:17 AM
The sales brochure I have for 62 hawks shows them with the wider 2 3/8" white walls, they would look as good on a 64.

Allan Songer
04-01-2008, 09:12 AM
quote:Originally posted by Jerry Forrester

Here's what I have on the rear of Leo the '55 HT. One half inch clearance on inside and out.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/jerrystudebaker/LRWheel2.jpg



It has been my expereince of late that the C/K Studebakers have about 1 1/4" more clearance to the rear fender lip than the sedans. Both have HUGE space (around 7") clearance at the back. So, if backspacing is a problem with a coupe, it's a nightmare with a sedan.

Dick Steinkamp
04-01-2008, 10:33 AM
Looks good Jerry! Did you have to "roll" the wheel well lip?



http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Flashback
04-01-2008, 04:21 PM
Jerry's set up does look good in pictures. But he is hiding something.
I have seen it in person. Pictures don't do it justice. Jerry, winter's over, are you working on this car?

Tex in Alabama
53 C Coupe

Tex E. Grier

Jerry Forrester
04-01-2008, 06:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

Looks good Jerry! Did you have to "roll" the wheel well lip?



http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg




As a matter of fact, yes I did.[}:)];) I just thought I could sneak that one by you. But I guess not. Heh, heh, heh. You know the sayin' "You can fool some of the people some of the time yada yada yada............

Jerry Forrester
Douglasville, Georgia
Be sure to check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/CHROME-CHROME-CHROME_ and my EZ33 store http://tinyurl.com/2g2j88
for your shiny Stude stuff

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/jerrystudebaker/11Sept2007e.jpg
More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu

Jerry Forrester
04-01-2008, 06:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by Flashback

Jerry's set up does look good in pictures. But he is hiding something.
I have seen it in person. Pictures don't do it justice. Jerry, winter's over, are you working on this car?

Tex in Alabama
53 C Coupe

Tex E. Grier

Hiding something????? Not me!!

Hello Tex, No, just haven't been in the mood. I think I will after the So. Ga. meet next month. Seeing other people out enjoying their Studes will probably make me jealous enough to start working on him. BTW, hope to see you there.

Jerry Forrester
Douglasville, Georgia
Be sure to check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/CHROME-CHROME-CHROME_ and my EZ33 store http://tinyurl.com/2g2j88
for your shiny Stude stuff

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/jerrystudebaker/11Sept2007e.jpg
More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu

StudeRich
04-01-2008, 06:51 PM
Sorry...no way would tires like S2DSteve has, look good on a '64!! :([V]

1962 was the last year for Wide Whites and they look like a pimpmobile on later cars, and some others as well, depending on their wheel choice, just ugly on the wrong car! :(


quote:Originally posted by Captain Billy

The sales brochure I have for 62 hawks shows them with the wider 2 3/8" white walls, they would look as good on a 64.


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

fstst56
04-02-2008, 10:55 PM
Mr Steinkamp, Yes I know how to measure a wheel, as I have 36 years experience. But, let me clarify. I'm running 15 x 8's on the back of the '53 coupe, not the front. The fronts are 14 x 7's. They fit with plenty of clearence, which really surprised me. Again, remember I am running a narrow tire on the rear or otherwise they might not clear the fender.

Mr Songer, I have had a '55 and a '56 wagon and could not get even a 6" wheel to fit on the rear. I have a '56 Golden Hawk and have Salt Flat Specials on it, 15 x 6 all around. You can get the Salt Flat Special in a 5" width which might help you clear your fender, if you like the look of that wheel.

Another idea. When I was 16, my Grandpa was the International Harvester tractor dealer in town. At that time I was installing a set of Cragar S/S wheels on my first car, a '61 Lark hardtop, in his shop. He gave me a set of Dunlop radials that were seconds that he had gotten cheap to use on farm implements. They weren't supposed to be used for street use, but he said they'd be OK, and they were. The wheels were 15 x 6 all around but the tires were pretty wide for that era. In '72 most people had never heard of radials. Anyway, when I let the car down the rears rubbed the fenders. While I was there scratching my head on what to do, a farmer that was in the shop loafing said "Come over here boys". He and two other farmers grabbed the rear fender and pulled until it "popped". Problem solved!!! Of course they knew it was just an old car back then and probably thought they couldn't hurt anything. And yes, I had more money in the wheels than the car was worth!

Allan Songer
04-02-2008, 11:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by fstst56

Mr Steinkamp, Yes I know how to measure a wheel, as I have 36 years experience. But, let me clarify. I'm running 15 x 8's on the back of the '53 coupe, not the front. The fronts are 14 x 7's. They fit with plenty of clearence, which really surprised me. Again, remember I am running a narrow tire on the rear or otherwise they might not clear the fender.

Mr Songer, I have had a '55 and a '56 wagon and could not get even a 6" wheel to fit on the rear. I have a '56 Golden Hawk and have Salt Flat Specials on it, 15 x 6 all around. You can get the Salt Flat Special in a 5" width which might help you clear your fender, if you like the look of that wheel.



Yep--the only way I can get a 6" wheel under the rear fenders is with a full 4" of backspacing, a combonation you don't see very often. I thought I would have to have some steel wheels made up, but it turns out Halibrand makes a 5-spoke (a la Torq Thrust) wheel in the configuration and I just ordered them. I am pretty sure I can fit a 225-70/15 under there, but if not a 215/70 will fit easy.

sals54
04-04-2008, 01:05 AM
I have 265-50-15s tucked under the stock rear fenders of my 54 Coupe. They are mounted on 8 inch rims now, but I have had them on 10 inch rims as well. I have a narrowed F**d 9 inch rear under the back though. It was narrowed especially for this purpose. I wanted to put a lot of rubber under the rear of the car.

N8N
04-04-2008, 11:05 AM
Just for everyone's information, the MoPar M-body cop car wheels are 15x7" with about 4-3/4" backspace, sidewall ends up real close to the tie rod in front but that's the only issue. a 1/4" spacer in front helps if your lug studs are long enough. The downside is that they are fairly heavy.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

barnlark
04-04-2008, 08:16 PM
Allan,
I know we are talking C/K's & larger sedans, etc., here, but I have 8" Torq Thrust II's on the rear and they make a custom 5.25 backspace for that wheel. It fit for the tight fit into my Lark rear fenders well. The max backspace for the 7" is less but both are available under their Vintage line. I found 235's worked on mine, but don't have pictures to show yet. I won't run more than 15X6 on the front though. So far so good.

quote:Originally posted by Allan Songer


quote:Originally posted by fstst56

Mr Steinkamp, Yes I know how to measure a wheel, as I have 36 years experience. But, let me clarify. I'm running 15 x 8's on the back of the '53 coupe, not the front. The fronts are 14 x 7's. They fit with plenty of clearence, which really surprised me. Again, remember I am running a narrow tire on the rear or otherwise they might not clear the fender.

Mr Songer, I have had a '55 and a '56 wagon and could not get even a 6" wheel to fit on the rear. I have a '56 Golden Hawk and have Salt Flat Specials on it, 15 x 6 all around. You can get the Salt Flat Special in a 5" width which might help you clear your fender, if you like the look of that wheel.



Yep--the only way I can get a 6" wheel under the rear fenders is with a full 4" of backspacing, a combonation you don't see very often. I thought I would have to have some steel wheels made up, but it turns out Halibrand makes a 5-spoke (a la Torq Thrust) wheel in the configuration and I just ordered them. I am pretty sure I can fit a 225-70/15 under there, but if not a 215/70 will fit easy.

Allan Songer
04-04-2008, 08:22 PM
8" with a 5.25 backspacing won't cut it on a '56 sedan. I doubt you could go with more than 2.25" in the front unless you ran a tire too small for the wheel which would look terrible. So, with an 8" wheel you'd need 5.75" backspacing and NOBODY makes those! With a 7" wheel you'd need 4.75 and NOBODY makes those! I was going to have 7" wheels made up, but for the same price I could buy the 6" Halibrands which made it a no-brainer for me . . .

barnlark
04-04-2008, 09:43 PM
Are we talking the front wheels here? No way was I suggesting that. Everyone I talked to said not to even go 7" on the front for stable steering, just stay with 6" wheels. They, AR, have several backspacing options to get the positive offset correct, but I found that the 7" rims on the REAR with their max back space (4.25?) was the same offset as my 8" customs. Mine, as others, are a tad closer to the wheel well on the driver's side, but playing with tire size finally worked out. '60 Lark wheel wells are so different though, I'll stay out of it, sorry. Of course staying stock takes all the guess work out. I have a set of those, too. BTW, are proper WW, though radials accepted yet?

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN0087-1.jpg

Allan Songer
04-05-2008, 12:06 AM
quote:Originally posted by barnlark

Are we talking the front wheels here?


Nah, I meant frontspacing of the rear wheel. On a '56 sedan there's only about 3.50 inches from the wheel mounting surface to the inner fender lip. Add 1/2 inch for the wheel lip and 1/2 for tire bulge and you're into the fender.

barnlark
04-05-2008, 12:28 AM
Ok, same page now. '60 Lark has the same problem and may be even closer. I went with lower tires and those wheels and they don't rub high up or hit the lip now. It drove me nuts geting it to work in there. I have a talented SDC friend who cut and welded his chrome steel wheels to create his own backspacing after he got the correct offset wheels out "front" for the rear of his car. He now has a '52, so he knows how to make it work.