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curt
03-27-2008, 03:41 PM
I know CJ oil is a no, no, bad. If the label has SJ on the container and NOT CJ, would this SJ only labeled oil be OK?

glen
03-27-2008, 04:13 PM
They use it in motorcycles....that is one of its applications.
Maybe someone else has a better clue what it could be used
for.

glen Brose - Perkinsville, AZ
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/glen_05/Studebakersign.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
03-27-2008, 05:37 PM
C=compression ignition. Formulated for diesel engines.

S=spark ignition. Formulated for gasoline engines.

The "C" oils prior to CJ had additives in them that some feel are good for older, flat tappet gas engines. When new car diesel engines became "clean" this year with the advent of ULSD (ultra low sulfur diesel) and catalytic converters, most of these additives were removed. My guess is that they still contain more of the additives than SJ oils.

(if this starts ANOTHER oil thread, I'll be sorry I contributed :(. Use the search function to find >30 threads on this subject)

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Mike Van Veghten
03-27-2008, 05:43 PM
Yea...here it goes again.

And my ol 259 Lark keeps chuggen along, on plain ol Castrol GTX 20-50....no oil related problems in the last 7ish years on the road as a daily driver.
Though I have reciently started adding Valvolines synthetic additive.
That's what probably saved the engine during the 9+ miles home with zero water!
And STILL...no oil related problems!

Mike

glen
03-27-2008, 05:54 PM
Bob....Mr. Shaw....Oh "great master" of this forum!
can we put a lock on this thread now! :)

glen Brose - Perkinsville, AZ
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/glen_05/Studebakersign.jpg

StudeRich
03-28-2008, 02:47 AM
I am not a chemist, I only know what the expert petroleum engineers have said, and that is that SJ is not suitable for flat tappet engines since about Nov. 2006, so not quite long enough for your cam to go flat YET! :(


quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

And my ol 259 Lark keeps chuggen along, on plain ol Castrol GTX 20-50....no oil related problems in the last 7ish years on the road as a daily driver.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Dan Timberlake
03-28-2008, 11:45 AM
There are flat tappets, and flat tappets. The life of brand new parts subjected to stout performance springs is real tough while breaking in. Back when oil was "good" racers would install soft springs to help survive break-in.
A well worn lo-po engine might not need nearly as much protection against going metal-to-metal.
I'll probably start using some kind of booster additive in any of my OHV or flathead engines

Dwain G.
03-28-2008, 11:46 AM
I had a hard time remembering which suffixes were 'good' and which were 'bad'. I finally came up with 'MoJo'. In alphabetical order, anything from S M or C J on, should be used in conjunction with a ZDDP additive.


http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/images/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

StudeRich
03-29-2008, 08:10 PM
Here is the information again, that someone posted before about where to buy good oil for flat tappet engines:

Classic Car Club of America, Indiana Chapter Ellen Vogel 317 225 0040 in Indianapolis. It is 15W-40 for $42.00 a case of 12, which is only $3.50 a Qt. there will be shipping cost to your door. :)

I have no connection to these people, just passing on that I got a couple cases from them with no problems because it was posted here.
It is made by D-A Lubricant, who does not sell it direct.

Also, I just bought some 30Wt. Koler small engine oil formulated for the higher temp. use in air cooled engines, which also could be a good oil to use in our cars, I do not know. I just bought a few Qts. for my Briggs & Stratton 23HP. V Twin on my rider mower, got it at the mower & saw shop.

mycatz2fat
03-29-2008, 11:23 PM
I've got to say this about you rich. For an old guy you really know your lubricants! I guess that's one way to keep momma and the car running well beyond their warranty date.

colt45sa
04-05-2008, 08:36 AM
By Kit Sullivan, The Director of Operations & Training for a 55-unit chain of quick-lubes and full-service automotive repair centers. He is also a consultant for the sales and technical side of the quick-lube/ car wash industry and has about 20 years experience in the automotive lubrication and repair fields, and holds a 'Master Tech' certification form 'A.S.E.'
All you ever wanted to know about oil for your BOSS 302 (and your daily driver).
Multi-Viscosity is the way to go. There are two types of lubrication that motor oil gives to your engine. The first type is called a 'Hydro-Static Boundary Layer'. That simply means the viscosity of the oil, which is defined as resistance to flow, is what is causing the oil to cling to the inside surfaces of your engine while the engine is turned off and the oil pump is not operating. When your engine is first started, this 'Static' layer of protection will give the engine adequate lubrication for a few minutes (5 or so) until the oil pump has the ability to create enough oil pressure to get the heated oil moving up into the upper parts of your motor. At this point, the second type of lubrication takes over. The oil pump is forcing the moving oil in between the engine's internal components, creating what is called a 'Hydro-Dynamic Boundary Layer'. That simply means oil is moving around by way of the oil pump. With a single-grade oil, the heat from operation thins the oil that is clinging to the upper parts of the engine quickly, much more quickly than the oil in the pan. This reduces its viscosity, or ability to flow and causes the engine to lose its 'Hydro-Static Boundary Layer' of lubrication. Unfortunately, the relatively thick single-grade 30-weight has not warmed up enough in the pan to be easily pumped up to the upper-engine before the 'Static' layer is depleted. So what you have is an engine that has lost its 'static' lubrication, but is not receiving any adequate 'dynamic' lubrication yet. This creates and abundance of wear and tear. This is why most engines from the 50's and 60's would be all used up at around 50,000-75,000 miles. That, and the high sulfur and phosphorous trace elements in the oil. Multi-viscosity oil nearly perfectly solves this problem. By starting out at a relatively thin weight, such as 5 or 10, the oil will be very easily and quickly pumped up to the critical parts of the engine, creating the 'dynamic' layer of protection long before the 'static' layer of protection is gone. Through the use of man-made additives called 'Viscosity Index Improvers' (long chain coil polymers, which are temperature-reactive), the oil will increase its viscosity as it heats up to its full operating temperature. Operating temperature for motor oil is 150 degrees. This 'overlap' of boundary layers of protection is what has enabled engines to go for 250,000-400,000 miles on a regular basis, along with much better refined oil. Basically, it has taken almost all of the wear and tear out of the warm-up phase of engine operation, which is where 75% of all internal engine wear comes from. All is not perfect, however: The V.I. Improvers are man-made additives and are VERY susceptible to the mechanical and very destructive 'shearing' action of the engine. This 'shearing' action actually tears apart the additive package, including the V.I. Improvers after a certain amount of time. Driving habits, engine type and condition make an enormous difference in how long the additive package will function adequately, but 3 months-3,000 miles is a good rule of thumb for the typical city and highway driven vehicle. All city driving (stop and go, idling, etc...) will shorten the oils life dramatically by as much as 33%. Oil changes every 2,000 miles may not be excessive under those circumstances. On the other hand, mostly highway driving at relatively steady speeds on flat paved and dust-free roads is the best condition for your engine and its oil. This may allow you to increase the drain interval by as much as 100%. The wider the range of viscosities on the oil, the less durable and resistant it

tomnoller
04-05-2008, 11:49 AM
Wow, great piece! Thanks for posting!

Lark Parker
04-05-2008, 02:37 PM
[quote]quote:Originally posted by colt45sa

By Kit Sullivan, The Director of Operations & Training for a 55-unit chain of quick-lubes and full-service automotive repair centers. He is also a consultant for the sales and technical side of the quick-lube/ car wash industry and has about 20 years experience in the automotive lubrication and repair fields, and holds a 'Master Tech' certification form 'A.S.E.'
All you ever wanted to know about oil for your BOSS 302 (and your daily driver).
Multi-Viscosity is the way to go. There are two types of lubrication that motor oil gives to your engine. The first type is called a 'Hydro-Static Boundary Layer'. That simply means the viscosity of the oil, which is defined as resistance to flow, is what is causing the oil to cling to the inside surfaces of your engine while the engine is turned off and the oil pump is not operating. When your engine is first started, this 'Static' layer of protection will give the engine adequate lubrication for a few minutes (5 or so) until the oil pump has the ability to create enough oil pressure to get the heated oil moving up into the upper parts of your motor. At this point, the second type of lubrication takes over. The oil pump is forcing the moving oil in between the engine's internal components, creating what is called a 'Hydro-Dynamic Boundary Layer'. That simply means oil is moving around by way of the oil pump. With a single-grade oil, the heat from operation thins the oil that is clinging to the upper parts of the engine quickly, much more quickly than the oil in the pan. This reduces its viscosity, or ability to flow and causes the engine to lose its 'Hydro-Static Boundary Layer' of lubrication. Unfortunately, the relatively thick single-grade 30-weight has not warmed up enough in the pan to be easily pumped up to the upper-engine before the 'Static' layer is depleted. So what you have is an engine that has lost its 'static' lubrication, but is not receiving any adequate 'dynamic' lubrication yet. This creates and abundance of wear and tear. This is why most engines from the 50's and 60's would be all used up at around 50,000-75,000 miles. That, and the high sulfur and phosphorous trace elements in the oil. Multi-viscosity oil nearly perfectly solves this problem. By starting out at a relatively thin weight, such as 5 or 10, the oil will be very easily and quickly pumped up to the critical parts of the engine, creating the 'dynamic' layer of protection long before the 'static' layer of protection is gone. Through the use of man-made additives called 'Viscosity Index Improvers' (long chain coil polymers, which are temperature-reactive), the oil will increase its viscosity as it heats up to its full operating temperature. Operating temperature for motor oil is 150 degrees. This 'overlap' of boundary layers of protection is what has enabled engines to go for 250,000-400,000 miles on a regular basis, along with much better refined oil. Basically, it has taken almost all of the wear and tear out of the warm-up phase of engine operation, which is where 75% of all internal engine wear comes from. All is not perfect, however: The V.I. Improvers are man-made additives and are VERY susceptible to the mechanical and very destructive 'shearing' action of the engine. This 'shearing' action actually tears apart the additive package, including the V.I. Improvers after a certain amount of time. Driving habits, engine type and condition make an enormous difference in how long the additive package will function adequately, but 3 months-3,000 miles is a good rule of thumb for the typical city and highway driven vehicle. All city driving (stop and go, idling, etc...) will shorten the oils life dramatically by as much as 33%. Oil changes every 2,000 miles may not be excessive under those circumstances. On the other hand, mostly highway driving at relatively steady speeds on flat paved and dust-free roads is the best condition for your engi

Dan Timberlake
04-05-2008, 08:28 PM
"'Hydro-Static Boundary Layer'. That simply means the viscosity of the oil, which is defined as resistance to flow, is what is causing the oil to cling to the inside surfaces of your engine while the engine is turned off and the oil pump is not operating.

The oil pump is forcing the moving oil in between the engine's internal components, creating what is called a 'Hydro-Dynamic Boundary Layer'. That simply means oil is moving around by way of the oil pump."

I think the definitions of hydrostatic and hydrodynamic lubrication that are widely accepted in US and foreign industry and all levels of technical academia are much different than in that article.

Dan Timberlake

DEEPNHOCK
04-06-2008, 07:42 AM
Once I saw the word 'Quick Lube' followed by 'consultant'..all my defense shields went to maximum;)..
Without offering a brand or spec preference,
I think what the average Stude guy/gal wants is a simple 'use this' recommendation
for an oil that will not hurt a Stude engine for the driving we do.
What clouds the issue is the additional Stude caso factor that it must be cheap oil that can be found in Wal-Mart/K-Mart/7-11.
There are inconguities in life, and this is one of them;)
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by colt45sa

By Kit Sullivan, The Director of Operations & Training for a 55-unit chain of quick-lubes and full-service automotive repair centers.

[u]&lt;snip the longest post ever on this forum[:0]...and I did read it;)&gt;</u>

StudeRich
04-06-2008, 08:10 PM
Wow that is quite a dissertation to say the least! [:0]

It does make me wonder just how recent this Boss 302 site post was?

Completely missing from this, is any mention of how to protect our flat tappet lifter engines in todays environmentally friendly world!

He says to break your new engine in on dino oil and switch to synthetic at 12,000 miles, but by then you would have ruined the engine with todays ZDDT starved recommended 10-30 oils! [:0]

This makes me think it was written before the change in the SJ oil formulas, OR he is totally ignoring the most important issue!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA