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StudeRich
08-05-2006, 02:22 AM
Hey Biggs or somebody on West Coast (as in still awake) !:D:D
Have you ever tried installing new outer bushings into the upper arms and had them not want to go in? They feel like they are crossthreading, Is that normal? Will it damage the upper arm if we force them in?

Rich.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

64V-K7
08-05-2006, 08:37 AM
The outer side of the trunnion bushings are threaded, but to a very shallow depth. These outside threads bite into the control arm as you tighten the bushings onto the pins. The pin and bushings are made of a much harder steel than the control arms and a new control arm has NO thread marks on the inside of the ear. The pin bushing actually galls the thread marks into the ear as you tighten them onto the pin.

When you removed the old bushings, you may have noticed the impression left from the old bushing threads. These are not threads that were cut into the arm before it was used, the first time.
Although you can reuse the control arms a couple times, when you install a new pin, it's unlikely that you will align the new pin threads and the old ear markings. So, this resistance you are encountering is actually the new bushing tearing into the ear and probably cross threading the old marks. This is a good thing, since once you have little or no resistance, you can't use the arm any longer.
If bushings aren't installed using the spreader tool, they will be torqued tight onto the pin and when the suspension moves, the entire assembly will rotate inside the control arm ear, wearing it out.

Roscomacaw
08-05-2006, 12:25 PM
I concur with what 55 Prez says. It's not a case of following the "threads" from before. NEW arms have no "threads" whatsoever.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

StudeRich
08-05-2006, 12:43 PM
Thanks to 55 Prez and Mr.Biggs for the info. Now, does anybody know how far apart the upper outer control arms are supposed to be? I have one thats farther apart than the other. I need to know if I should spread one or pinch the other.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Roscomacaw
08-05-2006, 01:01 PM
So, you're saying you want me to go out and measure an NOS one, eh?[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

StudeRich
08-05-2006, 01:19 PM
Well, if ya hafta go out in the 100 degree sun for over 10 min., maybe not !!:D:D



quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

So, you're saying you want me to go out and measure an NOS one, eh?[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Alan
08-05-2006, 02:31 PM
2.750" or 2 3/4"

Roscomacaw
08-05-2006, 03:09 PM
I'm glad Alan came up with that. I'd gone out to where I was confident those new A-arms were and they weren't.:( I know's I gots 'em. Somewhere............

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Alan
08-05-2006, 06:26 PM
I have a lot of parts like that, usualy find them when looking for something else.

StudeRich
08-08-2006, 07:51 PM
Thanks much, 55prez and Alan for all your help. -See continuation on new post: "Todays episode of the Great Outer Pin Repair".
Thanks, Rich.

sbca96
08-08-2006, 08:06 PM
Wow, what a pain. I havent inspected my Avanti yet, but so far I have
been lucky in not needing to get into that area. My Hawks suspension
was in pretty good tight shape. I guess with the ease of aligning the
front on a Stude, there has to be a downside. We dont have to deal
with shims, but we have extra to deal with on a rebuild.[V]

Tom

wagone
08-09-2006, 12:02 AM
A LOT extra to deal with. Has anyone but me given thought to the cost of two ball joints compared to the expense of producing a king pin front suspension--the comparsion is mind boogling, at the least. No wonder Stude went under trying to compete with Detroit. I can only hope the guy that invented the ball joint front suspension died a rich man. Course the likely result was that all the Detroit shareholders each got a little richer! And the engineer responsible was left thinking that he should have been an independent afterall. Course if he had been on his own Detroit would have found a way to screw him out of his idea--that's life!

wagone

Dick Steinkamp
08-09-2006, 12:05 AM
quote:Originally posted by wagone

A LOT extra to deal with. Has anyone but me given thought to the cost of two ball joints compared to the expense of producing a king pin front suspension--the comparsion is mind boogling, at the least. No wonder Stude went under trying to compete with Detroit.


What car had the first "modern" ball joint suspension and when? (Not a quiz...I don't know)



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

wagone
08-09-2006, 01:02 AM
Good question, Dick. I can't answer it either!

wagone

CHAMP
08-09-2006, 07:49 AM
Chevy was 1955, Ican't recall if anyone had balljoints suspension before then.:)

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

studegary
08-09-2006, 03:20 PM
I can't imagine Chevrolet having a first with this, but on the other hand, no earlier examples come to mind. I bet that DaimlerChrysler wishes that they never heard of ball joints. First there was a problem with Durangos and now about 600,000/800,000 Jeep Libertys are being recalled for ball joints. Last month, I took Cathy's PT Cruiser in for an NYSI and oil change. In the short time that I was there, two Jeeps came in on flatbeds. The second one was a new looking Liberty. I took a closer look and discovered that the lower, right ball joint had separated. The guy said that he was just pulling into a parking space. A few days later, I saw the announcement of the recall.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

Mike
08-09-2006, 04:11 PM
Ford had ball joints in '54; Lincoln in '52. Here's a picture:
http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/54Lincoln/Chassis/140203LMChass/CChasLinc_5469.html . Note it's the '52 to '55 parts book.
Mike M.

Jeff_H
08-09-2006, 07:40 PM
Seems to me I read someplace that the ball joint was invented by a ford engineer named McPherson (sp?). Same guy who gave us the "McPherson Strut" front end used on countless later models.

I've got a '54 Mercury brochure that sings the praises of the new ball joints.

'53 Champion Hardtop

wagone
08-10-2006, 12:41 AM
Thanks for the info on who started the ball joints--actually I'm kinda glad it was Ford and not GM, though why it should make any difference escapes me--but at 11:30 pm I might come up with just about anything off the wall.:D:D:):)

wagone and the R2 Avanti

StudeRich
08-10-2006, 02:31 AM
OK Dick, for helping get way OFF-TOPIC we are going to have to punish you severely like a lot of Forums do...NO,NO,NO we're NOT going to throw you out of the Forum. Since you helped ruin my post, I GET TO DRIVE THAT BLACK BEAUTY OF YOURS FOR A WHOLE WEEK -as in 7 days!!:D:D:D[}:)]
I'll be over to get it, the day you return from Calif.!
Rich.

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
What car had the first "modern" ball joint suspension and when? (Not a quiz...I don't know)
http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg
StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

wagone
08-10-2006, 01:54 PM
I'm in line behind StudeRich for my turn at a whole week. Actually one day wouldn't be bad! Hey Dick, is that "thing" coming to Omaha?

wagone

StudeRich
08-10-2006, 02:20 PM
Dick is in Calif. but he has been thinking of trailering it to Omaha if we can find him some TT 4.56 gears to do the Drag Race thing!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA