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bondobilly
03-10-2008, 08:41 PM
Two people mentioned to me that they had never seen so much sheet metal in one place as there was this past York. One had a feeling that "all the cars that will be built, are built". He feels that at this point in time you simply cannot afford to restore a car as prices have sky rocketed, and that the sheet metal that showed up, will now just sit until needed for insurance work.

Just an idea that was discussed today as we worked on the Hawk.

52 Ragtop
03-10-2008, 08:48 PM
Well, I still have a 64 ragtop to do. And my Avanti needs to be re painted.

Jim

52 Ragtop
03-10-2008, 08:48 PM
Well, I still have a 64 ragtop to do. And my Avanti needs to be re painted.

Jim

Guido
03-10-2008, 08:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by 52 Ragtop

Well, I still have a 64 ragtop to do. And my Avanti needs to be re painted.
Jim,

I wish that you were at York as I had NOS front fenders, a NOS hood and 2 good doors for a '64 convertible. If Bob Palma ever comes this way again, I can send them back with him.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/62/562/2/21/69/2353221690097493054hwathP_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/60/460/3/91/1/2433391010097493054nAMBKh_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/24/565/2/49/65/2603249650097493054XvpTUI_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/64/564/6/89/77/2752689770097493054skXzAT_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/24/565/5/22/8/2609522080097493054ZNRJeA_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/69/169/4/66/56/2729466560097493054oBZsXT_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive, a 1970 Dodge W-200 Power Wagon and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

See pictures here: http://community.webshots.com/user/GuidoSalvage

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
03-10-2008, 08:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by 52 Ragtop

Well, I still have a 64 ragtop to do. And my Avanti needs to be re painted.
Jim,

I wish that you were at York as I had NOS front fenders, a NOS hood and 2 good doors for a '64 convertible. If Bob Palma ever comes this way again, I can send them back with him.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/62/562/2/21/69/2353221690097493054hwathP_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/60/460/3/91/1/2433391010097493054nAMBKh_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/24/565/2/49/65/2603249650097493054XvpTUI_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/64/564/6/89/77/2752689770097493054skXzAT_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/24/565/5/22/8/2609522080097493054ZNRJeA_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/69/169/4/66/56/2729466560097493054oBZsXT_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive, a 1970 Dodge W-200 Power Wagon and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

See pictures here: http://community.webshots.com/user/GuidoSalvage

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

rockne10
03-10-2008, 08:56 PM
There was a great selection there, and Heiples only brought half of what they usually do.

I've seen no dearth in new projects. What I could have done for $5000 twenty years ago now costs $20,000. And, ten years from now will cost...?

I guess the message is, if you have a goal it requires action sooner, rather than later.

rockne10
03-10-2008, 08:56 PM
There was a great selection there, and Heiples only brought half of what they usually do.

I've seen no dearth in new projects. What I could have done for $5000 twenty years ago now costs $20,000. And, ten years from now will cost...?

I guess the message is, if you have a goal it requires action sooner, rather than later.

STEWDI
03-10-2008, 09:00 PM
In the past year or two more than one old car guy has said to me that the price of restoration is now so high that the current project will be the last project.
On the other hand, this is being said by car guys who are middle-aged (like a lot of us), not younger hobbyists. On the next hand (?), the are a lot fewer younger hobbyists, so there may be a shred of truth in the opinion that there will be fewer future restorations.

Roger "153624" Hill

55 Champion
47 M-5
Izzer Buggy
Junior Wagon

STEWDI
03-10-2008, 09:00 PM
In the past year or two more than one old car guy has said to me that the price of restoration is now so high that the current project will be the last project.
On the other hand, this is being said by car guys who are middle-aged (like a lot of us), not younger hobbyists. On the next hand (?), the are a lot fewer younger hobbyists, so there may be a shred of truth in the opinion that there will be fewer future restorations.

Roger "153624" Hill

55 Champion
47 M-5
Izzer Buggy
Junior Wagon

bams50
03-10-2008, 09:02 PM
No, not even close. In fact, I submit that it will never happen. There will always be forgotten barn finds turning up, just as there are today. Right now somewhere there are decent restored or original cars going into storage, and due to death or just apathy they will be abandoned and forgotten for 10, 20, 40, whatever number years.

My r2 Super Lark was a victim of just this type of scenario; parked in the back of a big barn and eventually hidden by farm equipment and hay bales. It's just what I wanted- red/red 4-spd., straight and solid- really well preserved! And amazingly, less than a half-hour from my home!!

I hope to go after it in the very near future. I'd go tomorrow, but it hasn't turned up yet... but I'm sure it's out there;)

Anyway- there will always be motivation- and therefore money- for cars to be restored. I think the sheet metal sellers are more interested in avoiding packing and shipping it. Most anything else is easy to sell on eBay.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

bams50
03-10-2008, 09:02 PM
No, not even close. In fact, I submit that it will never happen. There will always be forgotten barn finds turning up, just as there are today. Right now somewhere there are decent restored or original cars going into storage, and due to death or just apathy they will be abandoned and forgotten for 10, 20, 40, whatever number years.

My r2 Super Lark was a victim of just this type of scenario; parked in the back of a big barn and eventually hidden by farm equipment and hay bales. It's just what I wanted- red/red 4-spd., straight and solid- really well preserved! And amazingly, less than a half-hour from my home!!

I hope to go after it in the very near future. I'd go tomorrow, but it hasn't turned up yet... but I'm sure it's out there;)

Anyway- there will always be motivation- and therefore money- for cars to be restored. I think the sheet metal sellers are more interested in avoiding packing and shipping it. Most anything else is easy to sell on eBay.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

Swifster
03-10-2008, 09:13 PM
I still need some sheet metal for the Daytona due to minor collision damage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $1826.83)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/rollingpi.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/01-01-05TheStartingPoint.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/07-17-07FrontClipRemoved.jpg

Swifster
03-10-2008, 09:13 PM
I still need some sheet metal for the Daytona due to minor collision damage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $1826.83)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/rollingpi.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/01-01-05TheStartingPoint.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/07-17-07FrontClipRemoved.jpg

rockne10
03-10-2008, 09:32 PM
The swap meets are where the sheet metal shows up. Folks who can't make the trip need to network with their local Chapter members. Someone knows someone who's going. Someone knows someone who has the steel.

Anyone need pistine hood sides for a '32 Rockne 65? I've got'em!

rockne10
03-10-2008, 09:32 PM
The swap meets are where the sheet metal shows up. Folks who can't make the trip need to network with their local Chapter members. Someone knows someone who's going. Someone knows someone who has the steel.

Anyone need pistine hood sides for a '32 Rockne 65? I've got'em!

Lincoln77
03-10-2008, 10:56 PM
I don't know about the rest of ya'll but I all four of my cars need sheet metal of some sort. One of my Wagonaires to most of ya'll would be a parts car. Restore? No! Make decient drivers, Yes! I plan on trying to make my own floor pans. I can get a 4x8 sheet for $45.00. We'll see. I love Studebakers .

1963 Cruiser, 2-1963 Wagonaire, 1952 Champion. Based Willamette
Valley Oregon.
1952 Ford F-1, 1977 Lincoln Continental (all works in progress)
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s273/Lincoln77/63LARK14.jpghttp://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s273/Lincoln77/IMG_2902-1.jpg

Lincoln77
03-10-2008, 10:56 PM
I don't know about the rest of ya'll but I all four of my cars need sheet metal of some sort. One of my Wagonaires to most of ya'll would be a parts car. Restore? No! Make decient drivers, Yes! I plan on trying to make my own floor pans. I can get a 4x8 sheet for $45.00. We'll see. I love Studebakers .

1963 Cruiser, 2-1963 Wagonaire, 1952 Champion. Based Willamette
Valley Oregon.
1952 Ford F-1, 1977 Lincoln Continental (all works in progress)
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s273/Lincoln77/63LARK14.jpghttp://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s273/Lincoln77/IMG_2902-1.jpg

barnlark
03-10-2008, 11:36 PM
Keith,
I just found a pair of good, used front fenders in Oregon this week. If you know of anyone with parts hauling room going to South Bend in May, or Lancaster in September, please let me know. The sellers think the inner fenders make them hard to pack and ship at a reasonable price. They have a few Studes they are parting out, so I can turn you on to them when I complete my purchase and verify their honesty. They seem to have decent prices with little knowledge of Studebaker parts, but seem to be quality folks. They have a good '63 vanity dash, and... maybe a good, more supportive floor pan to cut out?

barnlark
03-10-2008, 11:36 PM
Keith,
I just found a pair of good, used front fenders in Oregon this week. If you know of anyone with parts hauling room going to South Bend in May, or Lancaster in September, please let me know. The sellers think the inner fenders make them hard to pack and ship at a reasonable price. They have a few Studes they are parting out, so I can turn you on to them when I complete my purchase and verify their honesty. They seem to have decent prices with little knowledge of Studebaker parts, but seem to be quality folks. They have a good '63 vanity dash, and... maybe a good, more supportive floor pan to cut out?

sals54
03-11-2008, 12:46 AM
One thing I'm noticing right here on the forum is the fact that there a whole bunch of new guys here. Some with Studes for the first time and some just here on the forum for the first time. The main theme though, seems to be a love for Studes and a lot of people doing what ever it takes to either restore, hotrod or make daily drivers out of their cars. By the looks of things here, parts are going to be in demand for some time. More power to all of you who are making it happen.

sals54
03-11-2008, 12:46 AM
One thing I'm noticing right here on the forum is the fact that there a whole bunch of new guys here. Some with Studes for the first time and some just here on the forum for the first time. The main theme though, seems to be a love for Studes and a lot of people doing what ever it takes to either restore, hotrod or make daily drivers out of their cars. By the looks of things here, parts are going to be in demand for some time. More power to all of you who are making it happen.

bams50
03-11-2008, 04:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by bondobilly

He feels that at this point in time you simply cannot afford to restore a car as prices have sky rocketed.

I said earlier that there will always be money for restorations; for proof, see the thread about the fools bidding a primitive Stude AM/FM radio over a grand[:0]

Restorations will always happen for a number of reasons: Emotional attatchment to a specific car (or model), appreciation for a given car or model, or folks just looking for something to do. There will also always be those looking to build a show car to compete at shows, and fathers looking for a project to do with their sons. And there will always be those looking to build customs and street rods; I think Studes, Ramblers, Nashes, etc. will continue to increase in popularity beyond the bullet noses with the rodders who (like me) have tired of the multitude of Vettes, Camaros, etc. We could probably come up with several more scenarios as well.

So I think restorations will continue to thrive indefinitely; high-dollar, concours-type restos may slow from time to time with the ebb and flow of the economy; but there will always who find bringing some old relic back to life and their former glory to be not just fun, but therapeutic.[^] As in racing, some will sacrifice almost everything, including some necessities, for their old car. I don't think that will ever change![8D]



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

bams50
03-11-2008, 04:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by bondobilly

He feels that at this point in time you simply cannot afford to restore a car as prices have sky rocketed.

I said earlier that there will always be money for restorations; for proof, see the thread about the fools bidding a primitive Stude AM/FM radio over a grand[:0]

Restorations will always happen for a number of reasons: Emotional attatchment to a specific car (or model), appreciation for a given car or model, or folks just looking for something to do. There will also always be those looking to build a show car to compete at shows, and fathers looking for a project to do with their sons. And there will always be those looking to build customs and street rods; I think Studes, Ramblers, Nashes, etc. will continue to increase in popularity beyond the bullet noses with the rodders who (like me) have tired of the multitude of Vettes, Camaros, etc. We could probably come up with several more scenarios as well.

So I think restorations will continue to thrive indefinitely; high-dollar, concours-type restos may slow from time to time with the ebb and flow of the economy; but there will always who find bringing some old relic back to life and their former glory to be not just fun, but therapeutic.[^] As in racing, some will sacrifice almost everything, including some necessities, for their old car. I don't think that will ever change![8D]



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

Commander51
03-11-2008, 06:13 AM
Those of us who have been wrenching on cars since our 'teens can't imagine the possibility of diminished interest in restoring older cars-- but for 99.99 % of current teenagers, the concept is borderline laughable. Once the Boomers reach "lighten-up, down-size age", (coming SOON) the bottom is going to fall out of the old car market. When that happens, buying a finished car will cost a small fraction of what finishing a barn find will, and that, as they say, will be that.

Commander51
03-11-2008, 06:13 AM
Those of us who have been wrenching on cars since our 'teens can't imagine the possibility of diminished interest in restoring older cars-- but for 99.99 % of current teenagers, the concept is borderline laughable. Once the Boomers reach "lighten-up, down-size age", (coming SOON) the bottom is going to fall out of the old car market. When that happens, buying a finished car will cost a small fraction of what finishing a barn find will, and that, as they say, will be that.

Flashback
03-11-2008, 07:37 AM
Being 63 years old and still new to the SDC, puts me in the group some of you are talking about. I have seen trends change over the years, but I believe restoration will go on. When I was a teen, I could drive a few miles in any direction and there were cars being restored. people restoring their own vehicles. A lot of the people have passed away, and trends changed with them. Now I can drive the same roads and find vehicles being restored by professionals for people. A lot of over restoration. I see most of the younger generations, making the big bucks, and paying someone else to restore their "whim" dream car, and selling it and then they have another "dream" car and on and on. Just like drag racing, that I was once a part of. Work all week on the car, go race on the weekend. It was cubic inches, now it's cubic dollars. Same with old cars. Even though it's slow because of money,I am doing my own, and enjoying every minute of it. I built my first 53 C body in 1960, at a total cost of $650.00. My current project has already cost me over ten times this and will probably cost twenty times by the time I finish.
Where is the sulplus 53 C-K sheet metal? Like it or not, some of you are in the group wih me. A dying breed.

Tex in Alabama
53 C coupe

Tex E. Grier

Flashback
03-11-2008, 07:37 AM
Being 63 years old and still new to the SDC, puts me in the group some of you are talking about. I have seen trends change over the years, but I believe restoration will go on. When I was a teen, I could drive a few miles in any direction and there were cars being restored. people restoring their own vehicles. A lot of the people have passed away, and trends changed with them. Now I can drive the same roads and find vehicles being restored by professionals for people. A lot of over restoration. I see most of the younger generations, making the big bucks, and paying someone else to restore their "whim" dream car, and selling it and then they have another "dream" car and on and on. Just like drag racing, that I was once a part of. Work all week on the car, go race on the weekend. It was cubic inches, now it's cubic dollars. Same with old cars. Even though it's slow because of money,I am doing my own, and enjoying every minute of it. I built my first 53 C body in 1960, at a total cost of $650.00. My current project has already cost me over ten times this and will probably cost twenty times by the time I finish.
Where is the sulplus 53 C-K sheet metal? Like it or not, some of you are in the group wih me. A dying breed.

Tex in Alabama
53 C coupe

Tex E. Grier

bondobilly
03-11-2008, 07:57 AM
quote:[i]
What shape is the plastic? The electronics?
Those (to me, anyways) are going to be the two biggest restoration hurdles in the future.
Plastic and electronics....


That is why we are holding on to my mother's old 1989 Buick Reatta, for the electronics and plastics. Parts are scarce as hell for that car, took us four weeks to find a windshield and the windshield was $2300 installed, about $100 less than the car was worth, but the insurance company paid for the glass.

bondobilly
03-11-2008, 07:57 AM
quote:[i]
What shape is the plastic? The electronics?
Those (to me, anyways) are going to be the two biggest restoration hurdles in the future.
Plastic and electronics....


That is why we are holding on to my mother's old 1989 Buick Reatta, for the electronics and plastics. Parts are scarce as hell for that car, took us four weeks to find a windshield and the windshield was $2300 installed, about $100 less than the car was worth, but the insurance company paid for the glass.

DEEPNHOCK
03-11-2008, 08:42 AM
Interesting points...and well taken.
I don't see 'restorations' dying off... But I do see them evolving.
As the new vehicle market has changed in the last 30+ years (production-wise),
the disposable nature of the vehicle themselves comes into play.
For example...
If you parked your 1961 Hawk in a shed (in 1972) and dug it out last year, you could pretty much find what you need to restore it.
(note I said nothing about cost)
But the reason you could restore it is that a great majority of the vehicle was steel.
You'd swap out the interior pieces, and rebuild the drivetrain, and all that was left was some trim, glass, rubber and sheet metal repair.
Look at the modern cars as a comparison.
Park a 2000 Whatchacallit in a barn and dig it out in 2040.
What could you rebuild?
What shape is the plastic? The electronics?
Those (to me, anyways) are going to be the two biggest restoration hurdles in the future.
Plastic and electronics....
But....
Betcha they said the same thing when they went from babbit bearings to newfangled shell bearings, too;)
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Flashback

Being 63 years old and still new to the SDC, puts me in the group some of you are talking about. I have seen trends change over the years, but I believe restoration will go on. When I was a teen, I could drive a few miles in any direction and there were cars being restored. people restoring their own vehicles. A lot of the people have passed away, and trends changed with them. Now I can drive the same roads and find vehicles being restored by professionals for people. A lot of over restoration. I see most of the younger generations, making the big bucks, and paying someone else to restore their "whim" dream car, and selling it and then they have another "dream" car and on and on. Just like drag racing, that I was once a part of. Work all week on the car, go race on the weekend. It was cubic inches, now it's cubic dollars. Same with old cars. Even though it's slow because of money,I am doing my own, and enjoying every minute of it. I built my first 53 C body in 1960, at a total cost of $650.00. My current project has already cost me over ten times this and will probably cost twenty times by the time I finish.
Where is the sulplus 53 C-K sheet metal? Like it or not, some of you are in the group wih me. A dying breed.
Tex in Alabama

DEEPNHOCK
03-11-2008, 08:42 AM
Interesting points...and well taken.
I don't see 'restorations' dying off... But I do see them evolving.
As the new vehicle market has changed in the last 30+ years (production-wise),
the disposable nature of the vehicle themselves comes into play.
For example...
If you parked your 1961 Hawk in a shed (in 1972) and dug it out last year, you could pretty much find what you need to restore it.
(note I said nothing about cost)
But the reason you could restore it is that a great majority of the vehicle was steel.
You'd swap out the interior pieces, and rebuild the drivetrain, and all that was left was some trim, glass, rubber and sheet metal repair.
Look at the modern cars as a comparison.
Park a 2000 Whatchacallit in a barn and dig it out in 2040.
What could you rebuild?
What shape is the plastic? The electronics?
Those (to me, anyways) are going to be the two biggest restoration hurdles in the future.
Plastic and electronics....
But....
Betcha they said the same thing when they went from babbit bearings to newfangled shell bearings, too;)
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Flashback

Being 63 years old and still new to the SDC, puts me in the group some of you are talking about. I have seen trends change over the years, but I believe restoration will go on. When I was a teen, I could drive a few miles in any direction and there were cars being restored. people restoring their own vehicles. A lot of the people have passed away, and trends changed with them. Now I can drive the same roads and find vehicles being restored by professionals for people. A lot of over restoration. I see most of the younger generations, making the big bucks, and paying someone else to restore their "whim" dream car, and selling it and then they have another "dream" car and on and on. Just like drag racing, that I was once a part of. Work all week on the car, go race on the weekend. It was cubic inches, now it's cubic dollars. Same with old cars. Even though it's slow because of money,I am doing my own, and enjoying every minute of it. I built my first 53 C body in 1960, at a total cost of $650.00. My current project has already cost me over ten times this and will probably cost twenty times by the time I finish.
Where is the sulplus 53 C-K sheet metal? Like it or not, some of you are in the group wih me. A dying breed.
Tex in Alabama