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Kdancy
03-08-2008, 07:17 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Studebaker-LOW-MILES-1964-STUDEBAKER-GRAND-TURISMO-HAWK-w-70k-MILES-LOADED_W0QQitemZ160216122231QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160216122231

The Nada book is almost 33,000.00 ??? A nice car but some one must be jacking up the Nada prices.

Dick Steinkamp
03-08-2008, 09:09 AM
Your link goes to a news story about troops loosing hearing, but...

I have also found NADA prices to be next to worthless on Studebakers. Some are way too high and some way too low (IMHO). Here's their web site for Studebakers....

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-0-5003-877-964-60027&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5006&c=7&m=1333&da=1

run a couple and see what you think.

I'd say their low would be the same as OCPG #4, average would be OCPG #3, and high would be OCPG #2.

Old Cars Price Guide is generally a tad low, but at least fairly consistently so.

I would guess that NADA just doesn't get enough data to be accurate and that they don't manipulate the data they do get (throw out the outliers, talk to knowledgeable car people, etc.).

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
03-08-2008, 09:09 AM
Your link goes to a news story about troops loosing hearing, but...

I have also found NADA prices to be next to worthless on Studebakers. Some are way too high and some way too low (IMHO). Here's their web site for Studebakers....

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-0-5003-877-964-60027&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5006&c=7&m=1333&da=1

run a couple and see what you think.

I'd say their low would be the same as OCPG #4, average would be OCPG #3, and high would be OCPG #2.

Old Cars Price Guide is generally a tad low, but at least fairly consistently so.

I would guess that NADA just doesn't get enough data to be accurate and that they don't manipulate the data they do get (throw out the outliers, talk to knowledgeable car people, etc.).

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

JDP
03-08-2008, 09:33 AM
NADA retail book on a show 64 GT with AC is 27K, which I think is ball park value. Isn't the 64 on ebay the one with the mouse motor though ? BTW, again, tell me which NADA values you think need adjusting. As a NADA adviser, you can help me adjust values when I make my quarterly reports on sale prices.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-08-2008, 09:33 AM
NADA retail book on a show 64 GT with AC is 27K, which I think is ball park value. Isn't the 64 on ebay the one with the mouse motor though ? BTW, again, tell me which NADA values you think need adjusting. As a NADA adviser, you can help me adjust values when I make my quarterly reports on sale prices.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

Dick Steinkamp
03-08-2008, 09:51 AM
If you had a couple of hours, JDP, it might be worth it to go through the whole list. Maybe even take a year or two a month. You would know best where things are out of line. I just ran a few and this is what I got...all are their "high" retail which I believe would be OCPG #2.

'58 Golden Hawk $29,400
'58 V8 Silver Hawk $29,800
(I would guess a Golden Hawk would be worth substantially more than a Silver Hawk...and I've NEVER seen a Silver Hawk bring $29.8)

'62 Lark Regal 4 door sedan $12,000
(We WISH [:0])

'55 Commander Hardtop (not Speedster) $26,400
'53 Commander Starliner $18,000
(50% premium for a '55 over a '53?)

These are the only 5 cars I ran. Run a few yourself. See what you think.




http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
03-08-2008, 09:51 AM
If you had a couple of hours, JDP, it might be worth it to go through the whole list. Maybe even take a year or two a month. You would know best where things are out of line. I just ran a few and this is what I got...all are their "high" retail which I believe would be OCPG #2.

'58 Golden Hawk $29,400
'58 V8 Silver Hawk $29,800
(I would guess a Golden Hawk would be worth substantially more than a Silver Hawk...and I've NEVER seen a Silver Hawk bring $29.8)

'62 Lark Regal 4 door sedan $12,000
(We WISH [:0])

'55 Commander Hardtop (not Speedster) $26,400
'53 Commander Starliner $18,000
(50% premium for a '55 over a '53?)

These are the only 5 cars I ran. Run a few yourself. See what you think.




http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Kdancy
03-08-2008, 01:38 PM
quote:[i]and I've NEVER seen a Silver Hawk bring $29.8)

'62 Lark Regal 4 door sedan $12,000
(We WISH [:0])

'55 Commander Hardtop (not Speedster) $26,400
'53 Commander Starliner $18,000
(50% premium for a '55 over a '53?)

These are the only 5 cars I ran. Run a few yourself. See what you think.


Sorry, I corrected the link in the first post.
Dick, does the above mean that for example- one 1953 Hdtp sells for 50,000.00, that that figure is now the NADA book price? doesn't make sense to me if the market as a whole is not backing up what one or two buyers spend. Market value is what I am thinking about and usually why one goes to the NADA price book for assessing value.

Kdancy
03-08-2008, 01:38 PM
quote:[i]and I've NEVER seen a Silver Hawk bring $29.8)

'62 Lark Regal 4 door sedan $12,000
(We WISH [:0])

'55 Commander Hardtop (not Speedster) $26,400
'53 Commander Starliner $18,000
(50% premium for a '55 over a '53?)

These are the only 5 cars I ran. Run a few yourself. See what you think.


Sorry, I corrected the link in the first post.
Dick, does the above mean that for example- one 1953 Hdtp sells for 50,000.00, that that figure is now the NADA book price? doesn't make sense to me if the market as a whole is not backing up what one or two buyers spend. Market value is what I am thinking about and usually why one goes to the NADA price book for assessing value.

Dick Steinkamp
03-08-2008, 02:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by Kdancy

Dick, does the above mean that for example- one 1953 Hdtp sells for 50,000.00, that that figure is now the NADA book price? doesn't make sense to me if the market as a whole is not backing up what one or two buyers spend. Market value is what I am thinking about and usually why one goes to the NADA price book for assessing value.


I really don't know. I have heard that the NADA book is based on actual sales and that JDP is one of the contributors, but I'm sure he isn't providing info on $12,000 4 door Lark sales to them ;).

On the eBay Hawk, NADA is showing a high value of $27k like JDP posted. I don't know where the seller is getting $33k. IMHO, even $27k would be a stretch for this car. I'd say if he got his opening bid, he would probably be doing good...and then you are taking the chance that the engine compartment and undercarriage isn't totally trashed since there are no pictures of them

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
03-08-2008, 02:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by Kdancy

Dick, does the above mean that for example- one 1953 Hdtp sells for 50,000.00, that that figure is now the NADA book price? doesn't make sense to me if the market as a whole is not backing up what one or two buyers spend. Market value is what I am thinking about and usually why one goes to the NADA price book for assessing value.


I really don't know. I have heard that the NADA book is based on actual sales and that JDP is one of the contributors, but I'm sure he isn't providing info on $12,000 4 door Lark sales to them ;).

On the eBay Hawk, NADA is showing a high value of $27k like JDP posted. I don't know where the seller is getting $33k. IMHO, even $27k would be a stretch for this car. I'd say if he got his opening bid, he would probably be doing good...and then you are taking the chance that the engine compartment and undercarriage isn't totally trashed since there are no pictures of them

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

JDP
03-08-2008, 03:14 PM
Maybe I'm thinking of another car, but I swore the last time it was listed it was "upgraded" a mouse motor. No mention this time though. BTW thanks for the NADA input, I'll get them to correct the Silver Hawk. Someone must have reported a high priced Silver Hawk sale more recently then a Golden.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-08-2008, 03:14 PM
Maybe I'm thinking of another car, but I swore the last time it was listed it was "upgraded" a mouse motor. No mention this time though. BTW thanks for the NADA input, I'll get them to correct the Silver Hawk. Someone must have reported a high priced Silver Hawk sale more recently then a Golden.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-08-2008, 03:25 PM
What a crook, it is the same car, but minus the mouse motor pictures and any mention of it unless I missed it. Here's the old listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6466&viewitem=&item=160194790958

If someone does bid and win, they are going to be ticked off if they thought they were buying a stock car.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-08-2008, 03:25 PM
What a crook, it is the same car, but minus the mouse motor pictures and any mention of it unless I missed it. Here's the old listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6466&viewitem=&item=160194790958

If someone does bid and win, they are going to be ticked off if they thought they were buying a stock car.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

StudeRich
03-08-2008, 03:38 PM
Yep, it's the same one, going around for about the fourth time![V] The beautiful Jet Green '64 GT Hawk with the "Hawk" nameplate stuck on the front fenders, the '53 Wire Wheel Covers, re-upholstered seats, the missing rear pan under the bumper with the exhausts hanging down too low and wrong extensions! [:0]

OH! did I mention they "used to say" it had a 283? and 350 THM Tranny, in which case some of the options that WERE shown on the Production order (now deleted) like wet air cleaner, viscous fan, original 4 Brl. Carb. and maybe Power Shift Auto. may NOT be there any more!:( And then there's the fact that as JDP said, they no longer mention the butchered engine, Mr. Schmitt may not be "Honest Joe" car Dealer! :(

And you ebayers get a deal, you don't have to pay the NADA $32,790.00,
you can have it for only $24,900.00 !
Quote: "this car has nearly every conceivable option available and is in collector quality throughout." -Yeah right, without the original engine, SHUUUUUUUURE![xx(]


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Maybe I'm thinking of another car, but I swore the last time it was listed it was "upgraded" a mouse motor. No mention this time though.

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

StudeRich
03-08-2008, 03:38 PM
Yep, it's the same one, going around for about the fourth time![V] The beautiful Jet Green '64 GT Hawk with the "Hawk" nameplate stuck on the front fenders, the '53 Wire Wheel Covers, re-upholstered seats, the missing rear pan under the bumper with the exhausts hanging down too low and wrong extensions! [:0]

OH! did I mention they "used to say" it had a 283? and 350 THM Tranny, in which case some of the options that WERE shown on the Production order (now deleted) like wet air cleaner, viscous fan, original 4 Brl. Carb. and maybe Power Shift Auto. may NOT be there any more!:( And then there's the fact that as JDP said, they no longer mention the butchered engine, Mr. Schmitt may not be "Honest Joe" car Dealer! :(

And you ebayers get a deal, you don't have to pay the NADA $32,790.00,
you can have it for only $24,900.00 !
Quote: "this car has nearly every conceivable option available and is in collector quality throughout." -Yeah right, without the original engine, SHUUUUUUUURE![xx(]


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Maybe I'm thinking of another car, but I swore the last time it was listed it was "upgraded" a mouse motor. No mention this time though.

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

JDP
03-08-2008, 03:46 PM
What a fraud, he must have thought. "Gee the engine swap may be hurting the value to a collector, so I'll pretend I forgot about it this time." It had to be intentional, because he dropped all the engine pictures.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-08-2008, 03:46 PM
What a fraud, he must have thought. "Gee the engine swap may be hurting the value to a collector, so I'll pretend I forgot about it this time." It had to be intentional, because he dropped all the engine pictures.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

Dick Steinkamp
03-08-2008, 08:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP
BTW thanks for the NADA input, I'll get them to correct the Silver Hawk.



Thanks, but you missed my point. I could look at 5 more NADA values and they would be just a bogus. Is the '62 Lark 4 door correct at $12k? If so, I'll sell you a bunch of them...and give you a $5k discount ;). A '55 hardtop worth 50% more than a '53 hardtop?

The prices really need to be ALL gone through in order for NADA to have any value to buying and selling Studebakers. Most are essentially worthless as is.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
03-08-2008, 08:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP
BTW thanks for the NADA input, I'll get them to correct the Silver Hawk.



Thanks, but you missed my point. I could look at 5 more NADA values and they would be just a bogus. Is the '62 Lark 4 door correct at $12k? If so, I'll sell you a bunch of them...and give you a $5k discount ;). A '55 hardtop worth 50% more than a '53 hardtop?

The prices really need to be ALL gone through in order for NADA to have any value to buying and selling Studebakers. Most are essentially worthless as is.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

JDP
03-08-2008, 08:39 PM
I wish it was that easy to fix, but advisor's are only part of the input. If a Ford guy reports a Speedster sale at 40K and misidentifies as a 55 hardtop, up goes the 55 hardtop value.I wish I had the time to report every error as it crops up, but I usually only do a dozen or so a year.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-08-2008, 08:39 PM
I wish it was that easy to fix, but advisor's are only part of the input. If a Ford guy reports a Speedster sale at 40K and misidentifies as a 55 hardtop, up goes the 55 hardtop value.I wish I had the time to report every error as it crops up, but I usually only do a dozen or so a year.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon