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showbizkid
10-13-2006, 05:46 PM
Hey guys,

I'm shooting for the first week of November to pull the 259 out of my Lark and schlep it up to StudeKen.

I want to pull just the block and leave the trans in the car, so I've been reading the proceedure in the shop manual and am stumped by its description of how to separate the engine and the trans. The engine removal proceedure says "Remove the converter drive plate-to-torque converter bolts as described under Flightomatic in the Transmission section", but when I get there all I can find is proceedures for pulling the trans, and lots of talk of removing crossmembers and such.

Can anyone tell me, in a simple fashion that will penetrate my thick, thick skull [:o)] , what's the proceedure for doing this?

Thanks!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Alan
10-13-2006, 06:19 PM
Save yourself a lot of work, smashed fingers and swearing, just pull both engine and tranny. Easier and faster.

whacker
10-13-2006, 11:30 PM
Alan is right on this. If you pull the engine and tranny together, you just need to unbolt and lift the doghouse out of the way, remove the radiator and support frame as a unit, unbolt the engine and tranny, put a chain and hoist on it and lift. Believe me, it is also a lot easier to assemble the engine and tranny outside of the car when you put it back together. I have done this job alone twice, just needed help lifting the front clip and hood out of the way, and that only because I didn't want to damage the paint. Keep track of the shims under the radiator and the front fenders to help with body panel realignment when you put it back together.

GTtim
10-13-2006, 11:49 PM
One of the big advantages to doing it this way is when you go to put it back together, it is a lot easier to get the torque converter mated up to the engine and trans without damaging the seals.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

showbizkid
10-14-2006, 01:02 PM
OK, this is interesting :D

How do you go about removing the front clip as a unit? What do you unbolt and where?


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Roscomacaw
10-14-2006, 01:59 PM
Well, unbolting and removing the front clip WILL make it easier to remove the engine, BUT.... I don't think it's necessary. Just remove the hood - take out the radiator and remove the distributor before lifting out that engine. Take the starter off too - makes it easier to get around the exhaust pipes if you've got a single exhaust setup.
Be prepared with a big pan to catch what runs outta the tranny tailshaft as you hoist the engine upwards.
But the trouble of reinstalling that front clip and the chances of chipping and scraping the paint would make me leave it in place.[8D]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

studegary
10-14-2006, 03:04 PM
I agree with Bob/Mr.Biggs. That is the way that I have done it.

Scribe mark the hood bolts and then remove them to facilitate hood realignment. Pull the distributor and remove the radiator and fan. Remove engine and transmission as a unit. Of course, first you have to disconnect anything attached to the engine/transmission, like exhaust, wiring, linkage, etc.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

JDP
10-14-2006, 03:22 PM
Just lift it out way nose high. Once it's clear of the firewall you may have to lift the tailshaft over the crossmember.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
Arnold Md.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2 (Sold)
63 Daytona HT
63 Lark 2 dr.
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark convert
60 Hawk
59 3E Truck
57 Silver Hawk
53 Starliner
52 Starliner
51 Commander

hank63
10-15-2006, 09:06 AM
One thing to remember - when you split the engine & gear box, make sure the torque converter stays with the gear box. Also, make a bracket to hold the converter, so it doesn't rest solely on the g.box input shaft. I use a piece of scrap angle-iron and some packers, bolt it to the bell housing and the converter.
The auto-specialists explained it to me as a precaution to avoid potential converter seal problems. If you are going to refurbish the auto, it doesn't matter. The converter has to come off anyway, and will need a new seal.
/H

BeeJay
10-15-2006, 11:55 AM
You might also want to see about finding a front driveshaft yoke. Put it in the trans after you remove driveshaft. Keeps the fluid where it belongs and not all over the floor.
Bob

Own '53 Commander Starliner. Red w/beige top. 350 Chev/700R4. Tilt,cruise,A/C.

tstclr
10-15-2006, 03:51 PM
An old plastic bag over the tailstock held in place with rubber bands will do in a pinch too.
Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

Roscomacaw
10-15-2006, 04:20 PM
I picked up my 321cu.in. Stude engine from StudeKen this morning (where Clark's gonna have his engine redone). Thought you might appreciate seeing it in all it's glittering glory. Note that I chose to use a 232 timing cover I had chromed since I plan on using an electric fuel pump on it.
It's overbored and uses AMC 304 slugs to fill up the 3&3/4" holes. These have been decked (the pistons) and the rod little ends reworked to grip the larger pins of the AMC pistons.
R3 valves play in concert with ported & polished heads and intake manifold. R3 headers let it exhale better. All this upper end stuff is orchestrated by a genuine Isky cam that is roughly equivalent to an R1. Of course, fuel is delivered by an AFB.
I'm hoping this'll put some zip in the '58 wagon soon. I've got an NOS HD flight-o-matic and a fresh high stall torque convertor to go with it. It should prove to be fun. [}:)][:p]:D
BTW, the engine had been overbored before I got it. The heads had been tweaked as well. In fact, it bears TWO serial numbers on it's block. One's an RS number and the other indicates it was modified to an R3 subsequently (and this is KNOWN to have happened in several cases). ;)

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/10/15/wagonmotor.jpg

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Alan
10-15-2006, 04:25 PM
Looking good Bob. Is that the block you were selling for $450 a while back?

Roscomacaw
10-15-2006, 04:57 PM
Nope! That R2 block is still waiting for someone to give it a home![V]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

showbizkid
10-15-2006, 07:25 PM
Wow - that engine looks sweet [:p] Got my juices really running now to pull that sucka and get it built!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

John Kirchhoff
10-16-2006, 04:34 PM
That thing seems too pretty to put in a car and get dirty. Is there any way the little woman would let you display it in the living room? That way when your buddies come over, you don't have to go outside for show and tell. It seems show and tell is one thing us guys never out grow, is it?

Roscomacaw
10-16-2006, 07:23 PM
John,

We gearheads think alike. With those oil filler tubes out (and they're not solidly mounted yet[}:)]) I could lay a bevel-edged piece of tempered glass across the valve covers (maybe secure it with some silicone adhesive!).
We could lounge around and set our beers on the glass while we speculated (BS'd each other) about how fast we could be goin' if'n that motor was in a Studebaker.:D

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

skyway
10-17-2006, 01:16 PM
Bob,

Great looking engine. Let us know how the 5 liter Mustang bunch reacts to your wagon after a couple of traffic light encounters.

We must think alike, those old timing covers are real clean on electric pumped cars. The one on my GT Hawk, along with water pump pulley, was part of an ancient dress up kit.

Skip Lackie
10-17-2006, 03:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff

That thing seems too pretty to put in a car and get dirty. Is there any way the little woman would let you display it in the living room? That way when your buddies come over, you don't have to go outside for show and tell. It seems show and tell is one thing us guys never out grow, is it?


A bit off topic, but here's a short little story for John and MrBiggs. A number of years ago I was working for a few days in the San Jose area, and noticed an ad in Hemmings for a pre-War Cadillac for sale a few miles away. So a friend and I drove over to look at it. I didn't buy the Caddy, but was impressed with a V16 limo that ostensibly had been owned by Bette Davis. Anyway, we started talking about cars, and the owner offered us beers. So we went into the kitchen to get a couple. On the way out of the house we walked through the living room, which was devoid of furniture except for a TV and a chair. The floor in the rest of this rather large room (with nice beige carpet) was covered by nice neat rows of Cadillac bumpers and chrome trim. In the corner was a spotless early Cad OHV V8 sitting on an engine stand made out of lumber. I couldn't think of anything intelligent to say except "wow!". My friend turned to the owner and said, "You're single, aren't you?". The owner responded with "Yeah, divorced -- how did you know?".

Sometimes, we're lucky to have women around.

Skip Lackie

Roscomacaw
10-17-2006, 05:06 PM
Years ago, I had a neighbor (this was in an apartment complex) who rebuilt the engine from his Porsche in the living room - and this was in an upstairs apartment![:0] I wasn't there when he got that thing down the spiral staircase out front![B)]

Hell, ask Dick Steinkamp about my office and spare bedroom. When he's stayed here overnight, he had to be happy with the couch.[8D] Yes, an understanding wife is essential for someone such s myself.;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

gecoe
10-17-2006, 06:54 PM
Unfortunately Bob, there's not nearly enough understanding wives to go around. In fact, there's a severe shortage of them!

Gerry
NE Colorado

Jeff_H
10-17-2006, 07:31 PM
I used to read posts on a web board devoted to the mid 80's mustang SVO. Friend of mine had one for a while and its similar to the thunderbird turbo coupe (of which I have a really ratty example) of the same era. Some years ago, a poster was having a new house built and being a apparently well healed collector of mustangs and memorabilia he was having the house designed to showcase his collection. Each room would have a car and appropriate "stuff" on display. Fancy having a car sitting in the living room, another in the den, one in the dining room, etc.... Don't know if it was a put-on or not. I used to work for a guy who once talked about heating up motorcycle engine blocks in the kitchen oven to separate some pressed together parts. Could be the reason he was on wife #2 when I knew him.

Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop

Roscomacaw
10-17-2006, 09:58 PM
Hi Jeff, we talked a bit in Omaha, right? You're the one that had the binder full of photos to show what your 53 looked like before youbecame it's savior, right?

Folks, Jeff's a Miracle Worker as far as I'm concerned! He took a car that I would have relegated to donor status at best, and made a really beautiful example of a 53K.;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

John Kirchhoff
10-17-2006, 10:17 PM
Hmmm, motorcycle block in the oven....I've had dry sleeves in the freezer before. Actually I've considered putting painted objects in the oven to decrease the drying time but I figured DuPont flavored brownies probably aren't good on my health. Maybe that's why I'm also divorced..........

Roscomacaw
10-17-2006, 10:44 PM
Ah yes - cast iron part in the oven - steel bushing in the freezer and then marry them quite easily. (Welding gloves required!):D

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

mapman
10-18-2006, 12:22 AM
A few years ago I reversed the ring gear on the flywheel of my TR3. The manual said to just heat it to 300 in the oven to put it back on. worked like a charm.
Rob

Jeff_H
10-18-2006, 08:49 AM
Mr Biggs,

Yup, that was me. 2-tone green '53. Not to be confused with the other 2-tone green '53 at Omaha that was a commander. That project falls into the "what was I thinking?" catagory for sure... Not even much of a parts car since I had to replace all the parts :(

Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop

Roscomacaw
10-18-2006, 11:57 AM
Depends on how you look at it, Jeff. You built it from parts - ergo, it's a "parts" car.[}:)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Guido
10-18-2006, 01:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff

Hmmm, motorcycle block in the oven....
Off topic, but it reminds me of when I had a summer job during college back in the '70's working maintenance at the University of Virginia. It seems that an outside contractor was hired to do roof work on some older apartments. It was a cool day and they placed a 5 gallon bucket of tar in a gas oven to warm it up. It ended up exploding and the resulting fire damaged several units.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
[b]Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

imported_n/a
10-19-2006, 10:26 PM
Asphalt roofing tar in the oven--that was brilliant![:0] Well, I have to own up to the time I had the engine for my 69 Buick GS out and apart in my ground-floor motel room in the south part of Dallas, Texas. I got the engine rebuilt & back in the car, and drove 'er home. The Motel manager was much too busy shooing away the drug dealers and various sleazeballs to worry about my car project.

Dick Steinkamp
10-19-2006, 10:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Folks, Jeff's a Miracle Worker as far as I'm concerned!



I agree. Not only a beautiful car, but very nicely engineered also.

Here's my favorite picture of it...

http://static.flickr.com/86/256012909_4e4249dc16_o.jpg

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Roscomacaw
10-19-2006, 11:01 PM
WOW! Nice photo of a NICE car! Reach around and give yourself another pat on the back, Jeff!

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

showbizkid
10-20-2006, 02:22 AM
That's truly lovely :D[:p][^]


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Jeff_H
10-20-2006, 07:47 PM
Thanks for all the kind remarks! What Biggs is talking about my '53 being "rough" is best explained here:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/554987313cxutEP

Someday I need to write up a little article about that project....

Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop

chocolate turkey
10-21-2006, 10:28 AM
The Chocolate Turkey was built in the house, that was 1974. Body in the bedroom piece by piece, wiring harness on the living room floor.....dishwasher did an amazing job with wire wheels and other cast stuff. If you are welding cast iron, an oven works well for pre-heating.......(what wife??????????????)

Brian

Brian K. Curtis

Roscomacaw
10-23-2006, 01:43 PM
In keeping with the original topic of this thread, here's the V8/auto combo just as it emerged from the '54 hardtop I've just sold.
I actually used 2 different sling attachment points to get this out easier. Once the four mounts were loose, I slung it from somewhat aft of the engine's center. This allowed me to get the tranny pan over the crossmember that serves to support the rear motor mounts. Once that the combo was lifted and pulled forward in the engine bay (Radiator and fan removed), I set it back down and slung it from the bolt that a PS pump would mount to and one of the bolt holes that's at the rear of the cylinder head. This makes the combo sit nose high when the hoist lifts it again and you can see how the combo emerges from the bay. [^]

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/10/23/Engout.jpg

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Guido
10-23-2006, 05:24 PM
I love your cardboard and plywood "shop" floor! :D;)

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R16A grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures".

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Roscomacaw
10-23-2006, 10:16 PM
Yeah - well, the shops FULL of Studes and Stude stuff (ask Dick - he's been here)so I lifted the engine and just kept nudjing the car back with my knee instead of trying to wrestle the hoist backwards.;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe