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View Full Version : V8 vs 6 cylinder again



sals54
03-02-2008, 03:03 PM
I'm going to open a can of worms again. I just drove a 6 cylinder 56 wagon about 100 miles. There were no major hills or mountains to traverse. It was in the nice sunshine of Northern California on a beautiful 65 degree day. It was Saturday, so traffic was light, but it is California. Everyone is in a hurry around here. Traffic often moves at a dizzying rate of 80 MPH. The Highway Patrol seems to have an understanding. As long as you're not cutting in and out and trying kill yourself or others, they leave well enough alone.
Anyway, the point is that with the 6 cylinder in that wagon, it was downright dangerous to stay on the freeway. I know some here will say that the 6 is a great engine and will offer many thousands of trouble free driving, and I will agree with them. My only beef is that I like to drive my car as a normal car in everyday conditions and sometimes that means to stay with or overtake other cars on the road.
Hence, my argument that if anyone is readying a car for normal use instead of just for show, then I would most strongly suggest that they use a V8 to power their car. Preferably a 259 or 289.
If the wagon I was driving had a V8, I would not have needed to plow along in the slow lane, dodging Semi Trucks and all the traffic which is always entering and exiting the freeway. I could have been flying along with the fast lane of cars and trucks doing 80. I was so jealous.
What are your thoughts?

StudeRich
03-02-2008, 03:11 PM
Exactly Sal![^] Those hummers should be relegated to in-town driving and they work fine! If you are leaving the town or city, you need a V-8![:0]

As someone said here recently, you can just barely keep up with 65-70 MPH traffic, if you have Overdrive and if you just about floor it, but it is hard on the engine and uses more fuel than big 350 GM V-8!:(

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

StudeRich
03-02-2008, 03:11 PM
Exactly Sal![^] Those hummers should be relegated to in-town driving and they work fine! If you are leaving the town or city, you need a V-8![:0]

As someone said here recently, you can just barely keep up with 65-70 MPH traffic, if you have Overdrive and if you just about floor it, but it is hard on the engine and uses more fuel than big 350 GM V-8!:(

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

52hawk
03-02-2008, 03:12 PM
Not just in CA-anybody plodding along at 60mph on the interstate is creating a hazard. Too bad everybodys in such a hurry,but that's the way it is.


Oglesby,Il
61Hawk "Studebaker? It must be hard to find parts for those!"

52hawk
03-02-2008, 03:12 PM
Not just in CA-anybody plodding along at 60mph on the interstate is creating a hazard. Too bad everybodys in such a hurry,but that's the way it is.


Oglesby,Il
61Hawk "Studebaker? It must be hard to find parts for those!"

Clem64
03-02-2008, 03:38 PM
I hear ya on that freeway driving. Once a month I make a 100 mile round trip to our Cascade Chapter meeting in Cottage Grove on I-5. Even though this is rural Oregon, those big rigs don't care and one really needs to be at least keeping up with them in the slow lane. Last year I was trying to cruise up there at 60mph(2500rpm w/3.31gears), but this last meeting I stepped it up to 65mph(2750rpm) and Clem's ol 289 was hummin. Don't like to run it that hard but believe I wil have to continue to do so for safety sake:(. I like having a FOM for overall driving, but for the freeway OD would be cool. One of my fellow chapter members has a 55' Pres w/OD and a 259, and he just blows by me on the way up and back every time[:I].

Dean Croft
Roseburg,OR

CLEM
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/Clem64Forum1A.jpg

Clem64
03-02-2008, 03:38 PM
I hear ya on that freeway driving. Once a month I make a 100 mile round trip to our Cascade Chapter meeting in Cottage Grove on I-5. Even though this is rural Oregon, those big rigs don't care and one really needs to be at least keeping up with them in the slow lane. Last year I was trying to cruise up there at 60mph(2500rpm w/3.31gears), but this last meeting I stepped it up to 65mph(2750rpm) and Clem's ol 289 was hummin. Don't like to run it that hard but believe I wil have to continue to do so for safety sake:(. I like having a FOM for overall driving, but for the freeway OD would be cool. One of my fellow chapter members has a 55' Pres w/OD and a 259, and he just blows by me on the way up and back every time[:I].

Dean Croft
Roseburg,OR

CLEM
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/Clem64Forum1A.jpg

PackardV8
03-02-2008, 03:41 PM
Agree with Sal on this one. I had a '56 Flight Hawk with 4.56 gears and the T96 overdrive. The long-stroke 185" would run 75 MPH @ 3000 RPMs, as long as the throttle was pretty close to the floor. Because it self-destructs at that speed, I had to replace the rings, but it needed valve guides by 75kmi and would suck up a quart of oil in 100 miles at that speed. I ran it pretty much wide open all the time and a head gasket finally started to let go about the time I sold it.

On the other hand, it depends on the driver. Many of my SDC friends who drive '56 and '57 Golden Hawks, R2 Avanti and the like, some of the fastest, strongest stuff Studebaker ever made, are perfectly happy puttering along at 60 MPH, waving at everyone who passes them. They wouldn't notice the difference if someone stole their R2 engine and replaced it with a Champion.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

PackardV8
03-02-2008, 03:41 PM
Agree with Sal on this one. I had a '56 Flight Hawk with 4.56 gears and the T96 overdrive. The long-stroke 185" would run 75 MPH @ 3000 RPMs, as long as the throttle was pretty close to the floor. Because it self-destructs at that speed, I had to replace the rings, but it needed valve guides by 75kmi and would suck up a quart of oil in 100 miles at that speed. I ran it pretty much wide open all the time and a head gasket finally started to let go about the time I sold it.

On the other hand, it depends on the driver. Many of my SDC friends who drive '56 and '57 Golden Hawks, R2 Avanti and the like, some of the fastest, strongest stuff Studebaker ever made, are perfectly happy puttering along at 60 MPH, waving at everyone who passes them. They wouldn't notice the difference if someone stole their R2 engine and replaced it with a Champion.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

556063
03-02-2008, 03:49 PM
Normal everyday conditions vary from region to region. In rural flatlands, a six can survive ok. In an area where 80 mph is the norm, and you regularly have to get there fast, it would not. I have plenty of stories of people moving to Indiana from California who spend much time the first year or two along the side of the road meeting our fine law enforcement officers until they adjust to local driving patterns. That may explain why there is such a difference in opinion.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

556063
03-02-2008, 03:49 PM
Normal everyday conditions vary from region to region. In rural flatlands, a six can survive ok. In an area where 80 mph is the norm, and you regularly have to get there fast, it would not. I have plenty of stories of people moving to Indiana from California who spend much time the first year or two along the side of the road meeting our fine law enforcement officers until they adjust to local driving patterns. That may explain why there is such a difference in opinion.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

Mark57
03-02-2008, 03:50 PM
When it comes to cruising down the highway at 80 mph, I would be much more worried about my brakes, steering, tires and other mechanical aspects of my Stude before I thought about my engine. I suppose if all mechanical systems were modernized, then it would not be much of an issue, but if one was to make all of those changes, why be concerned about having a Stude 6 or V8 as the powerplant? For highway cruising rear axle ratio and transmission type (o/d) is far more important to me unless the vehicle is a "working" one (then I'd lean towards the Stude V8).
Personal Choice, I would say. As an aside, I do have a 289 in the truck, but (as stated earlier) I know I would not feel comfortable in cruising at 80 mph as all of the mechanical systems are pretty much original. :)


<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar
3E-6/7-122 </h5>
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/IMG_0028a.jpg

Mark57
03-02-2008, 03:50 PM
When it comes to cruising down the highway at 80 mph, I would be much more worried about my brakes, steering, tires and other mechanical aspects of my Stude before I thought about my engine. I suppose if all mechanical systems were modernized, then it would not be much of an issue, but if one was to make all of those changes, why be concerned about having a Stude 6 or V8 as the powerplant? For highway cruising rear axle ratio and transmission type (o/d) is far more important to me unless the vehicle is a "working" one (then I'd lean towards the Stude V8).
Personal Choice, I would say. As an aside, I do have a 289 in the truck, but (as stated earlier) I know I would not feel comfortable in cruising at 80 mph as all of the mechanical systems are pretty much original. :)


<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar
3E-6/7-122 </h5>
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/IMG_0028a.jpg

StudeDave57
03-02-2008, 04:05 PM
I'd be more then happy to take that car off your hands (if it's the '57 I think it is) but someone doesn't seem to want that to happen...

Just don't get talked into ruining it by dumping a V8 in it, please!!!


StudeDave [8D]

StudeDave57
03-02-2008, 04:05 PM
I'd be more then happy to take that car off your hands (if it's the '57 I think it is) but someone doesn't seem to want that to happen...

Just don't get talked into ruining it by dumping a V8 in it, please!!!


StudeDave [8D]

JDP
03-02-2008, 04:25 PM
It can happen this week, it should be prepped for ebay in a few days.BTW, looks like a 57 wagon to me.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-02-2008, 04:25 PM
It can happen this week, it should be prepped for ebay in a few days.BTW, looks like a 57 wagon to me.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-02-2008, 04:28 PM
It can happen this week, it should be prepped for ebay in a few days.BTW, looks like a 57 wagon to me.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-02-2008, 04:28 PM
It can happen this week, it should be prepped for ebay in a few days.BTW, looks like a 57 wagon to me.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

tutone63
03-02-2008, 04:37 PM
I realize in many places, it is hard to avoid the and interstates, but for me, I try to avoid them whenever possible when I drive my Stude. Not just for the traffic reasons, but you get a speeding semi who likes to chuck a piece of ashpalt or a rock at you, say goodbye to your nice windshield...or grille, or headlight.
Overall, I am appalled at the drivers these days and the speed that they think they have to go. What gets me the most I guess is the fact that driving faster uses more gas, and for some reason, the higher the gas prices go, the faster people want to drive (of course, the federal highway commision doesn't help by raising the speed limits on the freeways either.) Do you think that there is a connection? No one has to answer that, just a thought.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/tutone63/63larkside-1.jpg
She may have bugs and she may have dings, but that just proves I drive this thing!!

tutone63
03-02-2008, 04:37 PM
I realize in many places, it is hard to avoid the and interstates, but for me, I try to avoid them whenever possible when I drive my Stude. Not just for the traffic reasons, but you get a speeding semi who likes to chuck a piece of ashpalt or a rock at you, say goodbye to your nice windshield...or grille, or headlight.
Overall, I am appalled at the drivers these days and the speed that they think they have to go. What gets me the most I guess is the fact that driving faster uses more gas, and for some reason, the higher the gas prices go, the faster people want to drive (of course, the federal highway commision doesn't help by raising the speed limits on the freeways either.) Do you think that there is a connection? No one has to answer that, just a thought.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/tutone63/63larkside-1.jpg
She may have bugs and she may have dings, but that just proves I drive this thing!!

556063
03-02-2008, 05:13 PM
I think most of the 80 mph driving takes place in areas with lower posted speeds. It was the norm in California when I had to travel to the LA area on business, back in the late 80's and early 90's, during the days of the Federally Mandated 55 mph limit. Government regulation seemed to have little impact on personal behavior.

I did not buy my six cylinder Studes to participate in that arena, but rather to get away from it. If you want to run with the big dogs, get a V8.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

556063
03-02-2008, 05:13 PM
I think most of the 80 mph driving takes place in areas with lower posted speeds. It was the norm in California when I had to travel to the LA area on business, back in the late 80's and early 90's, during the days of the Federally Mandated 55 mph limit. Government regulation seemed to have little impact on personal behavior.

I did not buy my six cylinder Studes to participate in that arena, but rather to get away from it. If you want to run with the big dogs, get a V8.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

tutone63
03-02-2008, 05:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by 556063

I think most of the 80 mph driving takes place in areas with lower posted speeds. It was the norm in California when I had to travel to the LA area on business, back in the late 80's and early 90's, during the days of the Federally Mandated 55 mph limit. Government regulation seemed to have little impact on personal behavior.

I did not buy my six cylinder Studes to participate in that arena, but rather to get away from it. If you want to run with the big dogs, get a V8.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

I see your point. And I forgot to mention in my reply...I have a 259, so I can run with the big dogs:D

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/tutone63/63larkside-1.jpg
She may have bugs and she may have dings, but that just proves I drive this thing!!

tutone63
03-02-2008, 05:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by 556063

I think most of the 80 mph driving takes place in areas with lower posted speeds. It was the norm in California when I had to travel to the LA area on business, back in the late 80's and early 90's, during the days of the Federally Mandated 55 mph limit. Government regulation seemed to have little impact on personal behavior.

I did not buy my six cylinder Studes to participate in that arena, but rather to get away from it. If you want to run with the big dogs, get a V8.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

I see your point. And I forgot to mention in my reply...I have a 259, so I can run with the big dogs:D

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/tutone63/63larkside-1.jpg
She may have bugs and she may have dings, but that just proves I drive this thing!!

gordr
03-02-2008, 06:38 PM
Sal, is this wagon equipped with overdrive? My long-gone '54 Champion coupe with overdrive could easily cruise at 75 mph, but it sure took its time getting there. I'd expect a wagon with 185 and overdrive to be capable of near the same speed, using a slightly taller axle.

IMHO, you can cruise at the prevailing Interstate speed, but the sixes lack the acceleration for passing at that speed. Requires a change in driving style. Once you get used to the lack of power, your driving habits change a bit, and you don't let yourself get into situations where only a surge of raw power can get you out. (I drove old VW Beetles for years, doncha know.)

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

gordr
03-02-2008, 06:38 PM
Sal, is this wagon equipped with overdrive? My long-gone '54 Champion coupe with overdrive could easily cruise at 75 mph, but it sure took its time getting there. I'd expect a wagon with 185 and overdrive to be capable of near the same speed, using a slightly taller axle.

IMHO, you can cruise at the prevailing Interstate speed, but the sixes lack the acceleration for passing at that speed. Requires a change in driving style. Once you get used to the lack of power, your driving habits change a bit, and you don't let yourself get into situations where only a surge of raw power can get you out. (I drove old VW Beetles for years, doncha know.)

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

showbizkid
03-02-2008, 07:47 PM
Being a lifelong California resident, I've noticed that the more congested the freeways get, the faster people want to go. As if that somehow makes up for being bumper-to-bumper all the time. I've even noticed myself doing it when I'm not thinking! And it's not that I want to drive fast, just that I want a patch of clear road in front of me.

Of course, if you leave three or four carlengths open, that is just an invitation for some jerk to run up on you 20mph faster and dart into it. [V]


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

showbizkid
03-02-2008, 07:47 PM
Being a lifelong California resident, I've noticed that the more congested the freeways get, the faster people want to go. As if that somehow makes up for being bumper-to-bumper all the time. I've even noticed myself doing it when I'm not thinking! And it's not that I want to drive fast, just that I want a patch of clear road in front of me.

Of course, if you leave three or four carlengths open, that is just an invitation for some jerk to run up on you 20mph faster and dart into it. [V]


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

Anne F. Goodman
03-02-2008, 08:48 PM
Well as someone who regularly drives on the freeway with her 6 cylinder I can tell you it does get scary at times but we upgraded from a 170 to a 185 in the 49 Champion and she just purrs along. People ask me how I can drive a 6 when my old car is a 350 chevy 69 El Camino. Well The 49 makes you think when you drive you have to anticipate and drive ahead of the pack. Mabel makes people slow down to look at her. So not a problem as far as I can see. Now we need to upgrade the brakes thats what concerns me. Low oil pressure now thats another story too. The guys think she's sick still I'm in denial. She's just fine 20 oil pressure down the road now and about 7 at an idle when warm.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
1955 President State
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpghttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/GusMater.jpghttp://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/th_DSCN17232008-01-01.jpg

Anne F. Goodman
03-02-2008, 08:48 PM
Well as someone who regularly drives on the freeway with her 6 cylinder I can tell you it does get scary at times but we upgraded from a 170 to a 185 in the 49 Champion and she just purrs along. People ask me how I can drive a 6 when my old car is a 350 chevy 69 El Camino. Well The 49 makes you think when you drive you have to anticipate and drive ahead of the pack. Mabel makes people slow down to look at her. So not a problem as far as I can see. Now we need to upgrade the brakes thats what concerns me. Low oil pressure now thats another story too. The guys think she's sick still I'm in denial. She's just fine 20 oil pressure down the road now and about 7 at an idle when warm.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
1955 President State
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpghttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/GusMater.jpghttp://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/th_DSCN17232008-01-01.jpg

Lothar
03-02-2008, 11:16 PM
Out here on the high plains, 75 MPH is the posted limit on I-80, but 80 mph is the norm (for passenger vehicles) and even 84-85 rarely gets you more than a warning. For us, however, traffic congestion is rarely a problem, so driving 80 mph isn't necessarily hazardous, as long as your situational awareness is good and the weather is decent. The higher speed is nice if you're traveling long distances, which you have to if you intend to get anywhere from here (Omaha 220 miles east, Denver 260 mles west).
Clearly, it isn't good to run most sixes at a steady 80-85, but you would still be able to keep up in the right (truck) lane at 72-75 mph. Therefore, I wouldn't be afraid to drive a flathead six on I-80, as long as the vehicle's other systems (brakes, steering suspension, fuel, tires and wheels, etc.) are sound. On the other hand, if I'm driving my Champion I'm not worried about [u]making </u> good time, Id rather [u]have</u> a good time, so I would allow another couple hours and take the scenic route.

1950 Champion
Holdrege NE

Lothar
03-02-2008, 11:16 PM
Out here on the high plains, 75 MPH is the posted limit on I-80, but 80 mph is the norm (for passenger vehicles) and even 84-85 rarely gets you more than a warning. For us, however, traffic congestion is rarely a problem, so driving 80 mph isn't necessarily hazardous, as long as your situational awareness is good and the weather is decent. The higher speed is nice if you're traveling long distances, which you have to if you intend to get anywhere from here (Omaha 220 miles east, Denver 260 mles west).
Clearly, it isn't good to run most sixes at a steady 80-85, but you would still be able to keep up in the right (truck) lane at 72-75 mph. Therefore, I wouldn't be afraid to drive a flathead six on I-80, as long as the vehicle's other systems (brakes, steering suspension, fuel, tires and wheels, etc.) are sound. On the other hand, if I'm driving my Champion I'm not worried about [u]making </u> good time, Id rather [u]have</u> a good time, so I would allow another couple hours and take the scenic route.

1950 Champion
Holdrege NE

sals54
03-03-2008, 02:08 AM
I don't know if the wagon is equipped with a 169 or 185, but it does have OD and it was engaged. Still the speed of the traffic was more than a bit concerning. Don't get me wrong, the car drove well and did all that I asked of it. I just didn't ask too much of it cuz I knew the limitations of what I was driving. This car got all sorts of thumbs up and many folks slowed down to do the slow motion drive-by as they waved and smiled. That in itself was very satisfying. When I drive my 54, I don't get too much of that cuz the 54 is slammed low in black primer and has red rims. Its also quite loud, so most of the older crowd who love to see a pretty yellow wagon go by, stare straight ahead and mind their own business when the Satin Black Beast goes roaring by. Quite a contrast. I prefer the black one.

sals54
03-03-2008, 02:08 AM
I don't know if the wagon is equipped with a 169 or 185, but it does have OD and it was engaged. Still the speed of the traffic was more than a bit concerning. Don't get me wrong, the car drove well and did all that I asked of it. I just didn't ask too much of it cuz I knew the limitations of what I was driving. This car got all sorts of thumbs up and many folks slowed down to do the slow motion drive-by as they waved and smiled. That in itself was very satisfying. When I drive my 54, I don't get too much of that cuz the 54 is slammed low in black primer and has red rims. Its also quite loud, so most of the older crowd who love to see a pretty yellow wagon go by, stare straight ahead and mind their own business when the Satin Black Beast goes roaring by. Quite a contrast. I prefer the black one.

bams50
03-03-2008, 05:05 AM
This is why, for me, no Stude will ever be able to serve as my daily, everywhere driver. Lots of times I can get where I need to go in a short run at 65-70 MPH for a half-hour or so. But frequently I have to hustle down the highway faster and/or longer distances; no way any 50s-60s car can beat a modern car doing that My 65 Lincoln will easily run the needle past the 120 MPH limit, but 40+ year old technology just cannot be expected to reliably run at high speeds day in and day out without semi-frequently leaving you on the roadside. My schedule just does not have room for that.

My Park Ave will continue to burn up the highways most days for me- good heat, cold A/C, C/C, heated leather, great stereo, still not affected by road salt at 247K miles, and all at 30 MPG highway at 80 MPH.

My Studes have earned the right to be relegated to part time duty and, as was said here recently, "poop along" most of their time on the road[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

bams50
03-03-2008, 05:05 AM
This is why, for me, no Stude will ever be able to serve as my daily, everywhere driver. Lots of times I can get where I need to go in a short run at 65-70 MPH for a half-hour or so. But frequently I have to hustle down the highway faster and/or longer distances; no way any 50s-60s car can beat a modern car doing that My 65 Lincoln will easily run the needle past the 120 MPH limit, but 40+ year old technology just cannot be expected to reliably run at high speeds day in and day out without semi-frequently leaving you on the roadside. My schedule just does not have room for that.

My Park Ave will continue to burn up the highways most days for me- good heat, cold A/C, C/C, heated leather, great stereo, still not affected by road salt at 247K miles, and all at 30 MPG highway at 80 MPH.

My Studes have earned the right to be relegated to part time duty and, as was said here recently, "poop along" most of their time on the road[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

63larkcustom
03-03-2008, 02:10 PM
I agree on the no freeway for the 6. They are great in the city and up to about 50mph. After that, they are working too hard. I've had betty over 60mph a few times. Stopping her can be downright scary.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/betty3rd.jpgDARE TO BE DIFFERENT...DRIVE YOUR STUDEY EVERY DAY!

63larkcustom
03-03-2008, 02:10 PM
I agree on the no freeway for the 6. They are great in the city and up to about 50mph. After that, they are working too hard. I've had betty over 60mph a few times. Stopping her can be downright scary.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/betty3rd.jpgDARE TO BE DIFFERENT...DRIVE YOUR STUDEY EVERY DAY!

62champ
03-03-2008, 03:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by tutone63

I am appalled at the drivers these days and the speed that they think they have to go. What gets me the most I guess is the fact that driving faster uses more gas, and for some reason, the higher the gas prices go, the faster people want to drive (of course, the federal highway commision doesn't help by raising the speed limits on the freeways either.) Do you think that there is a connection? No one has to answer that, just a thought.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/tutone63/63larkside-1.jpg
She may have bugs and she may have dings, but that just proves I drive this thing!!


I wonder if gas will have to go to $5 a gallon before some people actually make the connection... More demand - higher the price.

Like some others, I am not concerned with the motor pushing things along at 75 as I am with the brakes/steering/handling. Always makes me cringe when people go by at 80 mph and there are three vehicles behind them with about two car lengths between each - first vehicle would have to just let off the gas and you would have someone under the back of the vehicle...

I have always thought people would give each other a little room if randomly a little light would come on in the instrument cluster telling the driver that they now have 1953 Studebaker brakes... stop a lot of the close driving, running up on intersections people like to do.

<div align="left">1960 Lark VI</div id="left"> <div align="right">1962 7E7-122</div id="right">
[img=left]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/8b0ac4c6.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/DSC02237.jpg[/img=right]

62champ
03-03-2008, 03:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by tutone63

I am appalled at the drivers these days and the speed that they think they have to go. What gets me the most I guess is the fact that driving faster uses more gas, and for some reason, the higher the gas prices go, the faster people want to drive (of course, the federal highway commision doesn't help by raising the speed limits on the freeways either.) Do you think that there is a connection? No one has to answer that, just a thought.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/tutone63/63larkside-1.jpg
She may have bugs and she may have dings, but that just proves I drive this thing!!


I wonder if gas will have to go to $5 a gallon before some people actually make the connection... More demand - higher the price.

Like some others, I am not concerned with the motor pushing things along at 75 as I am with the brakes/steering/handling. Always makes me cringe when people go by at 80 mph and there are three vehicles behind them with about two car lengths between each - first vehicle would have to just let off the gas and you would have someone under the back of the vehicle...

I have always thought people would give each other a little room if randomly a little light would come on in the instrument cluster telling the driver that they now have 1953 Studebaker brakes... stop a lot of the close driving, running up on intersections people like to do.

<div align="left">1960 Lark VI</div id="left"> <div align="right">1962 7E7-122</div id="right">
[img=left]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/8b0ac4c6.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/DSC02237.jpg[/img=right]

ChampTrucking
03-03-2008, 10:56 PM
Well for what it is worth,I have not had my 65 on any interstate ,but I have had it to 60 MPH with the original 373 rear gear,and that little 194 six was SCREAMING!! It has no overdrive either.So I installed a V8 model 44 TT with 331 rear gears,and it calmed down a lot!! What a difference in motor noise.Next is a flex fan to kill the fan noise and I will be a happy dude.I am just waiting for the snow and salt to disappear so I can get it out,and thumb my nose at the gas stations since it gets better MPG that my pickup. We were kicking around the idea of a road trip to Tennessee with it to the spring Grand Run,but instead I am going to trailer my 61 down there,and if the right cash comes along,that trailer will be empty on the return trip!

ChampTrucking
03-03-2008, 10:56 PM
Well for what it is worth,I have not had my 65 on any interstate ,but I have had it to 60 MPH with the original 373 rear gear,and that little 194 six was SCREAMING!! It has no overdrive either.So I installed a V8 model 44 TT with 331 rear gears,and it calmed down a lot!! What a difference in motor noise.Next is a flex fan to kill the fan noise and I will be a happy dude.I am just waiting for the snow and salt to disappear so I can get it out,and thumb my nose at the gas stations since it gets better MPG that my pickup. We were kicking around the idea of a road trip to Tennessee with it to the spring Grand Run,but instead I am going to trailer my 61 down there,and if the right cash comes along,that trailer will be empty on the return trip!

65cruiser
03-04-2008, 05:44 AM
That's odd. My 65 Cruiser had a 194 six with 373 rear gears and it did just fine on the interstate. I drove it to work everyday at 70 mph. Fastest I ever had it was 80 and it held it fine, just didn't feel safe.


quote:Originally posted by ChampTrucking

Well for what it is worth,I have not had my 65 on any interstate ,but I have had it to 60 MPH with the original 373 rear gear,and that little 194 six was SCREAMING!! It has no overdrive either.So I installed a V8 model 44 TT with 331 rear gears,and it calmed down a lot!! What a difference in motor noise.Next is a flex fan to kill the fan noise and I will be a happy dude.I am just waiting for the snow and salt to disappear so I can get it out,and thumb my nose at the gas stations since it gets better MPG that my pickup. We were kicking around the idea of a road trip to Tennessee with it to the spring Grand Run,but instead I am going to trailer my 61 down there,and if the right cash comes along,that trailer will be empty on the return trip!








Mark Anderson
Member SDC and FMCA
Keeper of the Studebaker Cruiser Registry
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

My next Studebaker is in the future, but now getting my hair messed up in a Sebring ragtop!
Almost as fun as a Studebaker!

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/sebring.jpg

65cruiser
03-04-2008, 05:44 AM
That's odd. My 65 Cruiser had a 194 six with 373 rear gears and it did just fine on the interstate. I drove it to work everyday at 70 mph. Fastest I ever had it was 80 and it held it fine, just didn't feel safe.


quote:Originally posted by ChampTrucking

Well for what it is worth,I have not had my 65 on any interstate ,but I have had it to 60 MPH with the original 373 rear gear,and that little 194 six was SCREAMING!! It has no overdrive either.So I installed a V8 model 44 TT with 331 rear gears,and it calmed down a lot!! What a difference in motor noise.Next is a flex fan to kill the fan noise and I will be a happy dude.I am just waiting for the snow and salt to disappear so I can get it out,and thumb my nose at the gas stations since it gets better MPG that my pickup. We were kicking around the idea of a road trip to Tennessee with it to the spring Grand Run,but instead I am going to trailer my 61 down there,and if the right cash comes along,that trailer will be empty on the return trip!








Mark Anderson
Member SDC and FMCA
Keeper of the Studebaker Cruiser Registry
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

My next Studebaker is in the future, but now getting my hair messed up in a Sebring ragtop!
Almost as fun as a Studebaker!

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/sebring.jpg

comatus
03-04-2008, 09:30 AM
The magic word is "Cathcart," ain't it? Get those Sixes breathed on, then gear 'em up.

I have an Avanti with a Myer "R-two-and-a-half," so can go fast when I want to. I try to avoid Interstates because it's lots more fun to drive back roads. If you are on an I-route and doing 85, someone else will need to do 87. And so on.

I don't see the satisfaction of going just a little faster in a straight line, except at that one place in Utah. I can't argue with the folks in big states who really do need to, and share the frustration of anyone trying to drive safely anywhere near a big city. Two whole generations have now grown up driving only on expressways, and we are spoiled rotten, having lost the "quick and the dead" skills of negotiating two-way roads. An unintended consequence if ever I ran into one (well, it usually runs into me, actually).

The big thing is that, if everyone gets in line and drives the high-mileage phonebooths of the future, all those nonthinking drivers blowing past you now will be trying to do the same with a lot less reserve power and some real interesting roll centers and vehicle dynamics. Sure, Smart cars crash-test well, but there's only so much an airbag can do. Remember the argument against VW's, and all sports cars, in the 60's? Well, this time it's true. Put everybody in electric Isettas, and you'll have to segregate cars from semis, or face incredible carnage.

comatus
03-04-2008, 09:30 AM
The magic word is "Cathcart," ain't it? Get those Sixes breathed on, then gear 'em up.

I have an Avanti with a Myer "R-two-and-a-half," so can go fast when I want to. I try to avoid Interstates because it's lots more fun to drive back roads. If you are on an I-route and doing 85, someone else will need to do 87. And so on.

I don't see the satisfaction of going just a little faster in a straight line, except at that one place in Utah. I can't argue with the folks in big states who really do need to, and share the frustration of anyone trying to drive safely anywhere near a big city. Two whole generations have now grown up driving only on expressways, and we are spoiled rotten, having lost the "quick and the dead" skills of negotiating two-way roads. An unintended consequence if ever I ran into one (well, it usually runs into me, actually).

The big thing is that, if everyone gets in line and drives the high-mileage phonebooths of the future, all those nonthinking drivers blowing past you now will be trying to do the same with a lot less reserve power and some real interesting roll centers and vehicle dynamics. Sure, Smart cars crash-test well, but there's only so much an airbag can do. Remember the argument against VW's, and all sports cars, in the 60's? Well, this time it's true. Put everybody in electric Isettas, and you'll have to segregate cars from semis, or face incredible carnage.

52-fan
03-04-2008, 12:55 PM
Boy, this discussion could go on forever. I will agree that driving a Champion in heavy traffic is not fun, but I don't take mine into heavy traffic except when neccessary.(like driving to an SDC meet) On open Interstate highway or secondary roads where there is room to slow down a little on the steep hills (overdrive, you know)the little six is fine. I would drive a six cylinder Stude for everyday use in my small town, but probably not where the traffic is heavy and full of idiots.

1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, 1947 M5. Searcy,Arkansas

52-fan
03-04-2008, 12:55 PM
Boy, this discussion could go on forever. I will agree that driving a Champion in heavy traffic is not fun, but I don't take mine into heavy traffic except when neccessary.(like driving to an SDC meet) On open Interstate highway or secondary roads where there is room to slow down a little on the steep hills (overdrive, you know)the little six is fine. I would drive a six cylinder Stude for everyday use in my small town, but probably not where the traffic is heavy and full of idiots.

1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, 1947 M5. Searcy,Arkansas

Mark57
03-04-2008, 03:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

This is why, for me, no Stude will ever be able to serve as my daily, everywhere driver. Lots of times I can get where I need to go in a short run at 65-70 MPH for a half-hour or so. But frequently I have to hustle down the highway faster and/or longer distances; no way any 50s-60s car can beat a modern car doing that My 65 Lincoln will easily run the needle past the 120 MPH limit, but 40+ year old technology just cannot be expected to reliably run at high speeds day in and day out without semi-frequently leaving you on the roadside. My schedule just does not have room for that.

My Park Ave will continue to burn up the highways most days for me- good heat, cold A/C, C/C, heated leather, great stereo, still not affected by road salt at 247K miles, and all at 30 MPG highway at 80 MPH.

My Studes have earned the right to be relegated to part time duty and, as was said here recently, "poop along" most of their time on the road[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

I'm with you Bob, could not have stated it better myself. [^]

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar
3E-6/7-122 </h5>
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/IMG_0028a.jpg

Mark57
03-04-2008, 03:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

This is why, for me, no Stude will ever be able to serve as my daily, everywhere driver. Lots of times I can get where I need to go in a short run at 65-70 MPH for a half-hour or so. But frequently I have to hustle down the highway faster and/or longer distances; no way any 50s-60s car can beat a modern car doing that My 65 Lincoln will easily run the needle past the 120 MPH limit, but 40+ year old technology just cannot be expected to reliably run at high speeds day in and day out without semi-frequently leaving you on the roadside. My schedule just does not have room for that.

My Park Ave will continue to burn up the highways most days for me- good heat, cold A/C, C/C, heated leather, great stereo, still not affected by road salt at 247K miles, and all at 30 MPG highway at 80 MPH.

My Studes have earned the right to be relegated to part time duty and, as was said here recently, "poop along" most of their time on the road[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

I'm with you Bob, could not have stated it better myself. [^]

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar
3E-6/7-122 </h5>
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/IMG_0028a.jpg

JRoberts
03-04-2008, 03:15 PM
I too have mixed feelings on this subject. Like many others my biggest concern is not the durability of the engine as I have known folks with Champion six's to cruise down interstates just fine, keeping up with most traffic. But brakes at high speed are indeed a thing of concern at such speeds. I had a 2R6 pickup for a while with a tranny out of a Commander of the same era. Gearing was great 65-70 mph surely possible, but I felt very uneasy in traffic at such speeds (and thus did that only once!) I will also say that I had a '59 Lark with a 289/ four barrel that cruised the interstates just fine, but the brakes did not instill much more confidence. That is why one of the first modifications in the process of redoing my '65 Cruiser will be disc brakes.



Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

JRoberts
03-04-2008, 03:15 PM
I too have mixed feelings on this subject. Like many others my biggest concern is not the durability of the engine as I have known folks with Champion six's to cruise down interstates just fine, keeping up with most traffic. But brakes at high speed are indeed a thing of concern at such speeds. I had a 2R6 pickup for a while with a tranny out of a Commander of the same era. Gearing was great 65-70 mph surely possible, but I felt very uneasy in traffic at such speeds (and thus did that only once!) I will also say that I had a '59 Lark with a 289/ four barrel that cruised the interstates just fine, but the brakes did not instill much more confidence. That is why one of the first modifications in the process of redoing my '65 Cruiser will be disc brakes.



Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

gordr
03-04-2008, 04:11 PM
It's a lot cheaper to upgrade your brakes than your engine. And having better brakes goes a long way towards ensuring that both you and your Studebaker continue to be around for long time to come!

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

gordr
03-04-2008, 04:11 PM
It's a lot cheaper to upgrade your brakes than your engine. And having better brakes goes a long way towards ensuring that both you and your Studebaker continue to be around for long time to come!

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

bams50
03-05-2008, 07:02 AM
I've always been amazed at how people can jump on the "sixes are awful" band wagon. It depends what you're expecting; if you think a six will perform the same as the 8 you're used to, or come close to the modern sixes out today, you're going to be disappointed. I have yet to drive a Stude flattie any distance, but did drive the 64 I've got a few days. It's like all other sixes of that vintage, in which I logged tons of miles over the years- not a tire-smoker, but goes along just fine. Just a matter of learning how to drive it properly.

Quote from the Lark photo archive book- caption under a photo of a 2DSD at speed:

"This 6-cylinder Commander was among a group of 1964 Studebakers that set 350 records for endurance and speed at the Bonneville Salt Flats in autumn 1963. This car was driven 1,000 miles and averaged better than 100 MPH."

As I said, it's all in learning how to drive' em!;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

bams50
03-05-2008, 07:02 AM
I've always been amazed at how people can jump on the "sixes are awful" band wagon. It depends what you're expecting; if you think a six will perform the same as the 8 you're used to, or come close to the modern sixes out today, you're going to be disappointed. I have yet to drive a Stude flattie any distance, but did drive the 64 I've got a few days. It's like all other sixes of that vintage, in which I logged tons of miles over the years- not a tire-smoker, but goes along just fine. Just a matter of learning how to drive it properly.

Quote from the Lark photo archive book- caption under a photo of a 2DSD at speed:

"This 6-cylinder Commander was among a group of 1964 Studebakers that set 350 records for endurance and speed at the Bonneville Salt Flats in autumn 1963. This car was driven 1,000 miles and averaged better than 100 MPH."

As I said, it's all in learning how to drive' em!;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

JDP
03-05-2008, 07:17 AM
I didn't see any "sixes are awful" posts, most said the six is a nice little engine for all but 80 MPH freeway driving. I've driven them at close to that speed, and given the choice, I'd prefer a V8 too. It's really only a issue on the interstates and even then, you can get by for a occasional blast.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-05-2008, 07:17 AM
I didn't see any "sixes are awful" posts, most said the six is a nice little engine for all but 80 MPH freeway driving. I've driven them at close to that speed, and given the choice, I'd prefer a V8 too. It's really only a issue on the interstates and even then, you can get by for a occasional blast.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

go-studebaker
03-05-2008, 07:24 AM
Hi guys,
what is the hurry ?

Even in a V8. Why hurry. Slow down and enjoy the view.

65 and 66 cyl cars fly by comparison, and I woould have one of those above a V8 car.

Here in the UK the trucks on the roads a huge and come in huge numbers at any time of the day, far more than you would get in the States. The trick is not to be intimidated by them. A big truck will crush an Avanti or R2 Hawk just as easy as a little 60 Lark 6 wagon.

Greg

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Sedan Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1961 Hawk
1963 Daytona Hardtop
1988 Avanti Convertible

go-studebaker
03-05-2008, 07:24 AM
Hi guys,
what is the hurry ?

Even in a V8. Why hurry. Slow down and enjoy the view.

65 and 66 cyl cars fly by comparison, and I woould have one of those above a V8 car.

Here in the UK the trucks on the roads a huge and come in huge numbers at any time of the day, far more than you would get in the States. The trick is not to be intimidated by them. A big truck will crush an Avanti or R2 Hawk just as easy as a little 60 Lark 6 wagon.

Greg

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Sedan Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1961 Hawk
1963 Daytona Hardtop
1988 Avanti Convertible

bams50
03-05-2008, 08:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

I didn't see any "sixes are awful" posts

Maybe not those words in this thread, but there have been statements in the past like "they should all go on the junk heap" and telling someone to "rip that thing out and put a V8 in it!". That, combined with what Sal said, and Rich's response, might lead some to believe that sixes are much worse than they are.

I'm just offering a little balance when I say that overall the six will work quite well for the use that 99% of Studes have nowadays, just as well as the 50 year old technology throughout the rest of the car. The areas and situations where they'll be a problem are few and far between in most areas.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

bams50
03-05-2008, 08:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

I didn't see any "sixes are awful" posts

Maybe not those words in this thread, but there have been statements in the past like "they should all go on the junk heap" and telling someone to "rip that thing out and put a V8 in it!". That, combined with what Sal said, and Rich's response, might lead some to believe that sixes are much worse than they are.

I'm just offering a little balance when I say that overall the six will work quite well for the use that 99% of Studes have nowadays, just as well as the 50 year old technology throughout the rest of the car. The areas and situations where they'll be a problem are few and far between in most areas.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

JDP
03-05-2008, 04:24 PM
Robert, like many things, it's just a personal opinion. I don't enjoy driving the sixes, you and many others do and that's why Studebaker sold both.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

JDP
03-05-2008, 04:24 PM
Robert, like many things, it's just a personal opinion. I don't enjoy driving the sixes, you and many others do and that's why Studebaker sold both.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door
57 Wagon

47M-5
03-05-2008, 05:17 PM
You can hop up the 6 to drive with the big dogs. Cathcart would be glad to help out. Change the rear and the brakes and you will be ready to go. Or slow down and smell the flowers. Well could build a v-8 to, am for my old truck.

47M-5
03-05-2008, 05:17 PM
You can hop up the 6 to drive with the big dogs. Cathcart would be glad to help out. Change the rear and the brakes and you will be ready to go. Or slow down and smell the flowers. Well could build a v-8 to, am for my old truck.

jackb
03-06-2008, 07:12 AM
A good example of new vs. old was my experience to/from York. I have always made the trip in a Stude. Most often a Champ truck (V8), but a few times in a flathead 6. The time travelled in the Studes were close to 10-11 hours....It took me just under 9 hours in my 06' truck this time.

jackb
03-06-2008, 07:12 AM
A good example of new vs. old was my experience to/from York. I have always made the trip in a Stude. Most often a Champ truck (V8), but a few times in a flathead 6. The time travelled in the Studes were close to 10-11 hours....It took me just under 9 hours in my 06' truck this time.

47M-5
03-06-2008, 08:36 AM
The point is to do it your way and enjoy it. Jack is right both are fun, and when my truck is done I will too. The question, which will I drive - who knows. If you can keep up I have the 6

47M-5
03-06-2008, 08:36 AM
The point is to do it your way and enjoy it. Jack is right both are fun, and when my truck is done I will too. The question, which will I drive - who knows. If you can keep up I have the 6