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studeclunker
10-13-2006, 05:06 PM
I've found a T-86 transmission in my stationwagon. No, it's not the installed tranny, that's an automatic. This was just a bonus hidden in the front passenger footwell underneath some carpeting and the dismounted AC unit.

Gary mentions in the topshift thread that a champ six will mate with this tranny. Is that the Champ pickup or the 50's Champ? I have a running six from a '62 Champ pickup that I was going to use in my sedan. Will this tranny work with it? Is this a six or twelve volt tranny? How can one tell?

Gary, this looks just like the one in your information link. Well, yours is prettier with it's nice green paint. Mine is just rust brown. But hey;) It was free, so who's complaining?:D

I went out and gathered the following numbers off of it:

T86E-1A It also had a triangle with the euro number 7 and F inside it.
1-26 is on a small plate below the main number.
1-16 on a small plate on the bottom.
H-5 above the small plate on the bottom.

Anybody know anything about this?


Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

Alan
10-13-2006, 06:17 PM
It should have a 6 bolt top cover and they fit V8's and commander 6's from the late 40's till the end. is the output shaft short or long. the short has a u-joint yoke that the u-joint bolts into with a large nut inside. The long shaft 58 up has a slip yoke. worth about $150 if in decent condition.

gordr
10-13-2006, 09:14 PM
quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

Gary mentions in the topshift thread that a champ six will mate with this tranny. Is that the Champ pickup or the 50's Champ? I have a running six from a '62 Champ pickup that I was going to use in my sedan. Will this tranny work with it? Is this a six or twelve volt tranny? How can one tell?

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith


Ron, that sounds like an overdrive, alright. As Alan said, the input shaft is the crucial determining factor as to whether it can be installed in a Stude truck. I don't have overall lengths handy, but if the small diameter on the front end of the input shaft is about 1.5" long, then you have a car tranny, for a V8 or Commander six. Truck trannies have this area slightly under an inch long. I have cut down a car tranny input shaft to make it work in a truck. I think I had to cut about 5/8" off the end of the shaft, and also grind about 1/4" off the front of the splines.

Also, take off the top cover and look at the first-reverse sliding gear. If it is a straight-cut gear, it may well be a truck tranny. If it is a helical gear, probably a car tranny.

If the overdrive solenoid has 3 terminals, it's a late-model 12 volt tranny. If it has only two, it's either 6 volt, or early ('56-'57) twelve volt.

If you have the truck bellhousing from the '62 Champ, you should be able to mate this tranny to it, and use it in a sedan. Stude did this for taxis. With a late truck bellhousing, you may find the input shaft length is OK as-is. If the engine is on the floor, it's pretty easy job to check fit.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

studeclunker
10-13-2006, 11:49 PM
Thanks guys. This is what Gary said:

quote:Ron:
Studebaker started to use the T86E-1A about 1947 in the M5 trucks. There was one version for Champ 6 engines, another for the Commander 6. This carried over to the 2R and later series trucks. The V8 trucks used the same transmission as the Commander 6. The difference between the two versions was the input shaft. The Commander 6/V8 version has a longer shaft and larger diameter splines. I think there are also more splines. I'll go out in the shed tomorrow and check the dimensions on some transmissions I have here. The car transmissions had a different bolt pattern to mount to the bell housings, at least on the Champ 6 engines.

Regards,
Gary Ash


Now I wish I'd kept the overdrive from the Blue Witch. I'd at least have something to compare with. Well, sounds like it'll mate up with the Champ's six. So I'm going to try it.

There is still one thing I'm confused about here: is the Champ you keep referring to the 1960-1964 Champ pickup?
This is kinda important to know.

One more thing. If this is a truck transmission, will it be hardy enough for towing, hauling, etc.? If so, I just might try putting it in my other champ. The one with the V8. It would be nice to have the mileage advantage and ability of the light truck.

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

garyash
10-14-2006, 12:24 PM
Let's sort some things out about Champs and Champions:
1. The Champ truck was a [u]model</u> that used a cab based on the Lark body. It could come with a 6 cylinder engine or a V8 engine. In 1960, you could get the old 170 cu. in. flathead 6, known as the Champion 6. This design dated back to 1939 for the Champion car model. You could also get the 245 cu. in. Commander 6. Both 259 and 289 cu. in. V8s were available. In 1961 and later, you could get the smaller Champion 6 engine, but it now came with an overhead valve cylinder head for more horsepower. The larger 245 cu. in. Commander 6 engine was discontinued, but both V8s were available.

2. The transmission input shafts for Champion 6 engines are different from the ones used for the Commander 6 and V8s. There were several versions of the T86E-1A, so you need to know which type of input shaft you have. Older trucks with Champion 6 engines and standard 3-speed, no-overdrive, used T90 transmissions.

3. Transmissions for cars using the Champion 6 engine were different from truck engines. The input shaft was smaller in diameter and shorter. These were usually T96 models. The bolt pattern on the transmission case was different from the trucks. Car transmissions generally were not as strong as truck transmssions.

4. You need the bellhousing that matches your transmission. Check bolt hole locations, and pilot opening (4-1/8" or 4-1/4").

Here are dimensions:
http://www.studegarage.com/images/other/transmission_dimensions.gif

[img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/gary_ash_m5_sm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
Dartmouth, Mass.
'48 M5
'65 Wagonaire Commander
'63 Wagonaire Standard
web site at http://www.studegarage.com

stuvw2mny
10-15-2006, 10:38 PM
Thanks Gary, a ton for your drawings & input. I thought I knew a lot about Stude overdrives, but your information adds succint and valuable information. Great addition to the knowledge base!!!!
I was thinking about putting my 1956 President engine and T86E overdrive into a 1950 2R5 Stude truck, with the truck bell housing (mounts on the side rather than underneath). Looks like I have some input shaft and bell housing measuring to do. If the '56 OD won't work I probably have a T86E truck overdrive unit buried in storage. Now I can check for fitting.

studeclunker
10-20-2006, 02:21 AM
Hey! Wadayaknow! That tranny fits my six bellhousing. It's too long for the rest of it though. Let me put it this way. The bolt pattern is identical. The spindle or shaft matches the first description that Gary so kindly diagramed. That for the commander 6 and V8. So, this is for a car... maybe? Perhaps for that big six?
It's interesting though... The tranny that was already attached to the six is of the type described for cars. The third description.

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith