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BobPalma
02-28-2008, 07:35 AM
:) Dateline Indianapolis: The last domestic new-car dealership [Payton Wells Chevrolet] in the greater downtown area closed last year and the buildings will be auctioned off April 3.

When we moved to Indianapolis in July 1962, there were at least 21 new-car dealerships in what could be defined as the "downtown" area (maybe more, that's a rough minimum count from quick memory).

Included in that count were three Studebaker dealers: Charlie Stuart Studebaker (now Finishmasters Automotive Paint & Supply), Snider Studebaker (facilities levelled; now a McDonald's parking lot), and Roy Gale Motors (now a general auto repair shop in good condition, looking virtually unchanged from when it was a Studebaker dealer's place of business). (A fourth Studebaker dealer, Bob Phillips Studebaker, had gone belly-up during the 1961 Studebaker sales slump and was out of business before we arrived.)

That same downtown area now has but two new-car franchises: a small, yuppie Saab dealership and, further west, a combination Volkswagen/Subaru dealership. Both are located on West 16th Street, one of the old automobile rows and the main artery between downtown Indianapolis and the famous Indianapolis Motor Speedway on old Indianapolis' far west side.

Times change[V]; all gone to suburbia...or to that great automobile row in the sky that's identified with bright neon lights beckoning one's attention to DeSoto/Plymouth or Nash...or, of course, Studebaker! :D BP

JRoberts
02-28-2008, 08:17 AM
You know I used to watch with great sadness as the new car dealerships in most of the small towns around here began to disappear, but now that is what is happening in larger towns and cities as well. All the dealerships are "out by the mall" somewhere in glitzy surroundings with so many new cars on the lot that getting them to order something special as almost impossible.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

JRoberts
02-28-2008, 08:17 AM
You know I used to watch with great sadness as the new car dealerships in most of the small towns around here began to disappear, but now that is what is happening in larger towns and cities as well. All the dealerships are "out by the mall" somewhere in glitzy surroundings with so many new cars on the lot that getting them to order something special as almost impossible.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

BobPalma
02-28-2008, 09:19 AM
quote:Originally posted by JRoberts
All the dealerships are "out by the mall" somewhere in glitzy surroundings with so many new cars on the lot that getting them to order something special as almost impossible.

Joe Roberts


:) Yeah; what I like are the banks of golf carts sitting near the showroom, necessary to drive people out to where there new car/truck might be located among the 400+ vehicles on the lot.

And to think: I'm sure my Dad never had more than three new Packards in stock...and one of them was a demonstrator! [:0]:D BP

BobPalma
02-28-2008, 09:19 AM
quote:Originally posted by JRoberts
All the dealerships are "out by the mall" somewhere in glitzy surroundings with so many new cars on the lot that getting them to order something special as almost impossible.

Joe Roberts


:) Yeah; what I like are the banks of golf carts sitting near the showroom, necessary to drive people out to where there new car/truck might be located among the 400+ vehicles on the lot.

And to think: I'm sure my Dad never had more than three new Packards in stock...and one of them was a demonstrator! [:0]:D BP

8E45E
02-28-2008, 09:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by JRoberts
All the dealerships are "out by the mall" somewhere in glitzy surroundings with so many new cars on the lot that getting them to order something special as almost impossible.



Many of them are clustered together as an "Auto Mall", usually at the intersection of two major traffic arteries. Here, there are something like 10 different car dealers all in a circle. I can think of at least 4 of them who were 'close-to-downtown' dealers and pulled up stakes after years and years of being at their former location just to be part of that Auto Mall.

Craig

8E45E
02-28-2008, 09:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by JRoberts
All the dealerships are "out by the mall" somewhere in glitzy surroundings with so many new cars on the lot that getting them to order something special as almost impossible.



Many of them are clustered together as an "Auto Mall", usually at the intersection of two major traffic arteries. Here, there are something like 10 different car dealers all in a circle. I can think of at least 4 of them who were 'close-to-downtown' dealers and pulled up stakes after years and years of being at their former location just to be part of that Auto Mall.

Craig

Allan Songer
02-28-2008, 09:29 AM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E


quote:Originally posted by JRoberts
All the dealerships are "out by the mall" somewhere in glitzy surroundings with so many new cars on the lot that getting them to order something special as almost impossible.



Many of them are clustered together as an "Auto Mall", usually at the intersection of two major traffic arteries. Here, there are something like 10 makes all in a circle.

Craig


One of my earilest memories--probably from about 1960 or '61 was seeing the big, neon Pontiac "Cheiftan" neon head that stood on the main drag in my grandparent's and now MY home town, Long Beach, CA. When I was just a really little kid I knew we were close to their home when I saw the big neon Indian head. I think the dealership was "Mike Salta Pontiac," but I can't say for sure. There were DOZENS of dealerships there on Long Beach Blvd. and they are ALL gone today, replaced by weed-filled lots of urban decay and blight. Many of the dealerships are sill "in town" (sort of), but all in new facilities adjacent to the 405 freeway in Signal Hill, a very odd little city surrounded on all sides by Long Beach who offered MASSIVE tax breaks to the dealerships to get them to move there over the past 15-20 years.

Allan Songer
02-28-2008, 09:29 AM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E


quote:Originally posted by JRoberts
All the dealerships are "out by the mall" somewhere in glitzy surroundings with so many new cars on the lot that getting them to order something special as almost impossible.



Many of them are clustered together as an "Auto Mall", usually at the intersection of two major traffic arteries. Here, there are something like 10 makes all in a circle.

Craig


One of my earilest memories--probably from about 1960 or '61 was seeing the big, neon Pontiac "Cheiftan" neon head that stood on the main drag in my grandparent's and now MY home town, Long Beach, CA. When I was just a really little kid I knew we were close to their home when I saw the big neon Indian head. I think the dealership was "Mike Salta Pontiac," but I can't say for sure. There were DOZENS of dealerships there on Long Beach Blvd. and they are ALL gone today, replaced by weed-filled lots of urban decay and blight. Many of the dealerships are sill "in town" (sort of), but all in new facilities adjacent to the 405 freeway in Signal Hill, a very odd little city surrounded on all sides by Long Beach who offered MASSIVE tax breaks to the dealerships to get them to move there over the past 15-20 years.

8E45E
02-28-2008, 09:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


And to think: I'm sure my Dad never had more than three new Packards in stock...and one of them was a demonstrator! [:0]:D BP


Seems to me, there are quotas set upon the dealers now, where they HAVE to take on a minimum amount of cars on the lot; another reason the downtown locations given way to the suburbs and industrial parks due to space limitations. Indeed, some of the centrally located dealers did have storage yards out of sight and out of mind to keep some of their stock, but they are encouraged by the manufacturer/zone office to have them visible, and readily available.

Craig

8E45E
02-28-2008, 09:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


And to think: I'm sure my Dad never had more than three new Packards in stock...and one of them was a demonstrator! [:0]:D BP


Seems to me, there are quotas set upon the dealers now, where they HAVE to take on a minimum amount of cars on the lot; another reason the downtown locations given way to the suburbs and industrial parks due to space limitations. Indeed, some of the centrally located dealers did have storage yards out of sight and out of mind to keep some of their stock, but they are encouraged by the manufacturer/zone office to have them visible, and readily available.

Craig

jnewkirk77
02-28-2008, 10:30 AM
Owensboro has had the same flight out of downtown; only Don Moore Chevrolet-Cadillac and Steve Jones Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep remain. I can remember when everyone was downtown, for every reason, not just car dealers. Sears was there, JCPenney was there ... gosh, everyone was there.

Now, however, Don Moore has most of his lines (several lots full of imports) on the south side of town, out near "the mall," and Champion Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Mazda is even farther south. The former owner of the Chrysler dealership wanted to move out there, but land was too high-priced.

I'm just waiting to see how many of them decide the now-booming east side of town is "THE place to be" and move out that direction.

Craig: Evansville, IN (about 45 minutes away) has what they call the "Division Street Auto Plaza," which the state built as reparation to the dealers for taking them off of the main highway when they built the east-west Lloyd Expressway (which it is not) across town. Most of the big names are there; Ford still has a downtown presence, but just about everyone else is on the east side.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

jnewkirk77
02-28-2008, 10:30 AM
Owensboro has had the same flight out of downtown; only Don Moore Chevrolet-Cadillac and Steve Jones Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep remain. I can remember when everyone was downtown, for every reason, not just car dealers. Sears was there, JCPenney was there ... gosh, everyone was there.

Now, however, Don Moore has most of his lines (several lots full of imports) on the south side of town, out near "the mall," and Champion Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Mazda is even farther south. The former owner of the Chrysler dealership wanted to move out there, but land was too high-priced.

I'm just waiting to see how many of them decide the now-booming east side of town is "THE place to be" and move out that direction.

Craig: Evansville, IN (about 45 minutes away) has what they call the "Division Street Auto Plaza," which the state built as reparation to the dealers for taking them off of the main highway when they built the east-west Lloyd Expressway (which it is not) across town. Most of the big names are there; Ford still has a downtown presence, but just about everyone else is on the east side.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

Frank Starr
02-28-2008, 11:15 AM
You know why there's no dealers downtown? Well, at least in Seattle, there's no gas stations downtown. I always check my gas gauge before driving downtown (in my Stude of course). God help you if you run out of gas downtown.

Frank Starr
Seattle

Frank Starr
02-28-2008, 11:15 AM
You know why there's no dealers downtown? Well, at least in Seattle, there's no gas stations downtown. I always check my gas gauge before driving downtown (in my Stude of course). God help you if you run out of gas downtown.

Frank Starr
Seattle

Roscomacaw
02-28-2008, 11:22 AM
Good point, Frank! It's that way just about everywhere.[V]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
02-28-2008, 11:22 AM
Good point, Frank! It's that way just about everywhere.[V]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

bams50
02-28-2008, 02:15 PM
As I've said before, I grew up in the used car business. My father got his cars from having long-term, personal relationships with the owners of the new car dealerships. I fondly remember riding with him from lot to lot while he met up with his friends, had a beer and a cigar, and made deals on the trade-ins.

Eventually, most of the old-timers passed on or retired. A few other new car dealers started buying them up and accumulating multiple brands at multiple locations. Downtown Syracuse (my beloved hometown) had all the major department stores, and most all retail save for groceries. Going west from downtown on Genesee Street was Automoble Row, still there and still has a few dealerships. In 1976 we got our first shopping mall, the Penn Can Mall, on the northern end of the city. This revolutionized retail, and within a short time ALL the downtown stores either moved into the mall, or just went under. Many of the car lots in the city proper moved out and built new facilities in proximity to the mall and the multiple housing developments there.

In time several more malls popped up, each one bigger and fancier than the previous. In the early 90s Penn Can had been in a long, steady decline, and was eventually 90% vacant- pretty sad looking. The Burdick family was one of those that bought up several dealerships, and sold several marques. They eventually bought the carcass of the Penn Can Mall for a song, and totally gutted, changed, renovated, and added and created Driver's Village- most any brand or model or price range you could want, all at one location. The 2-story central area of the mall was renovated and today has restaurants, excercise clubs, shops, and other various venues, all within an indoor, climate controlled walk to and/or from any of their service departments and showrooms- quite a facility! Their old buildings, most built in the early to mid 80s, are either housing other unrelated businesses, have been razed, or sit vacant. As great as Driver's Vilage is, we do still have several individually-owned, one brand dealerships; somehow they all seem to survive, even though the media constantly tells us how bad the area economy is....

I get my cars from new car dealers through business and personal relationships, but not nearly to the extent of my father's day. Probably 3/4 of my inventory comes from dealer auctions. I deliver mail during the day, then 3 or 4 nights per week I rush home, change clothes, grab a bite of something, and head to an auction. Evey piece of my inventory is personally evaluated and hand selected by me or my brother. Lot of hours, but that's how I do it... and I love doing so.

I think the future of new car sales- like it or not- is the large, multiple-make, 1000 unit lots with nearby or on-site amenities, like the above-mentioned Driver's Village. For the used dealers like me, I'm experimenting with something new- virtual auctions; buying on-line in real time. The big hurdle, still to be cleared, is the evaluation of the cars. I'm currently working with some auction companies towards a workable system to address this big problem.

I love what I do, but I admit I wouldn't mind not eating fumes and shivering 3 nights a week an hour or two away from home;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

bams50
02-28-2008, 02:15 PM
As I've said before, I grew up in the used car business. My father got his cars from having long-term, personal relationships with the owners of the new car dealerships. I fondly remember riding with him from lot to lot while he met up with his friends, had a beer and a cigar, and made deals on the trade-ins.

Eventually, most of the old-timers passed on or retired. A few other new car dealers started buying them up and accumulating multiple brands at multiple locations. Downtown Syracuse (my beloved hometown) had all the major department stores, and most all retail save for groceries. Going west from downtown on Genesee Street was Automoble Row, still there and still has a few dealerships. In 1976 we got our first shopping mall, the Penn Can Mall, on the northern end of the city. This revolutionized retail, and within a short time ALL the downtown stores either moved into the mall, or just went under. Many of the car lots in the city proper moved out and built new facilities in proximity to the mall and the multiple housing developments there.

In time several more malls popped up, each one bigger and fancier than the previous. In the early 90s Penn Can had been in a long, steady decline, and was eventually 90% vacant- pretty sad looking. The Burdick family was one of those that bought up several dealerships, and sold several marques. They eventually bought the carcass of the Penn Can Mall for a song, and totally gutted, changed, renovated, and added and created Driver's Village- most any brand or model or price range you could want, all at one location. The 2-story central area of the mall was renovated and today has restaurants, excercise clubs, shops, and other various venues, all within an indoor, climate controlled walk to and/or from any of their service departments and showrooms- quite a facility! Their old buildings, most built in the early to mid 80s, are either housing other unrelated businesses, have been razed, or sit vacant. As great as Driver's Vilage is, we do still have several individually-owned, one brand dealerships; somehow they all seem to survive, even though the media constantly tells us how bad the area economy is....

I get my cars from new car dealers through business and personal relationships, but not nearly to the extent of my father's day. Probably 3/4 of my inventory comes from dealer auctions. I deliver mail during the day, then 3 or 4 nights per week I rush home, change clothes, grab a bite of something, and head to an auction. Evey piece of my inventory is personally evaluated and hand selected by me or my brother. Lot of hours, but that's how I do it... and I love doing so.

I think the future of new car sales- like it or not- is the large, multiple-make, 1000 unit lots with nearby or on-site amenities, like the above-mentioned Driver's Village. For the used dealers like me, I'm experimenting with something new- virtual auctions; buying on-line in real time. The big hurdle, still to be cleared, is the evaluation of the cars. I'm currently working with some auction companies towards a workable system to address this big problem.

I love what I do, but I admit I wouldn't mind not eating fumes and shivering 3 nights a week an hour or two away from home;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

studegary
02-28-2008, 03:41 PM
I grew up in the small village of Fishkill, NY. The population was about 900-1000 at that time. Within the village there was a Pontiac dealer, Chevrolet dealer, Chrysler/Plymouth/DeSoto/Mercedes-Benz/Fiat dealer and shortly after the war (WW II) there was a dealer that sold many European makes. Now there is just the Chrysler dealer remaining. It has had the same family ownership/operators since it opened in 1929.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

studegary
02-28-2008, 03:41 PM
I grew up in the small village of Fishkill, NY. The population was about 900-1000 at that time. Within the village there was a Pontiac dealer, Chevrolet dealer, Chrysler/Plymouth/DeSoto/Mercedes-Benz/Fiat dealer and shortly after the war (WW II) there was a dealer that sold many European makes. Now there is just the Chrysler dealer remaining. It has had the same family ownership/operators since it opened in 1929.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

bob40
02-28-2008, 04:11 PM
Another "bonus" that goes along with the urban flight is that is is very hard to find a dealership that isnt part of a automotive group.These groups end up owning dealerships that cover just about every marque and they all have the same pricing scale.A dealership still owned by just one guy/gal is getting pretty rare around here in the Minneapolis/St.Paul metro area.

bob40
02-28-2008, 04:11 PM
Another "bonus" that goes along with the urban flight is that is is very hard to find a dealership that isnt part of a automotive group.These groups end up owning dealerships that cover just about every marque and they all have the same pricing scale.A dealership still owned by just one guy/gal is getting pretty rare around here in the Minneapolis/St.Paul metro area.

52hawk
02-28-2008, 05:20 PM
When I was a teen I lived a block away from a Chevy dealer. Used to go up there at night when they were closed,and 'drive' the used cars-back and forth in the lot,never brave enough to drive out of the lot!
Yep,the keys were always in the cars overnight!

Oglesby,Il
61Hawk "Studebaker? It must be hard to find parts for those!"

52hawk
02-28-2008, 05:20 PM
When I was a teen I lived a block away from a Chevy dealer. Used to go up there at night when they were closed,and 'drive' the used cars-back and forth in the lot,never brave enough to drive out of the lot!
Yep,the keys were always in the cars overnight!

Oglesby,Il
61Hawk "Studebaker? It must be hard to find parts for those!"

556063
02-28-2008, 06:39 PM
The same business forces that helped put Studebaker out of business have trickled down to put the same pressure on "Independent" car dealerships. For automakers, it's more expensive to administrate 4000 dealers of varying size and strength than it is to administrate 1500 or so strong dealers that can sell the same number of cars. Not every small town has a Toyota dealership, for example, and Toyota outsold both Ford and Chrysler last year.

An interesting twist I've noticed is Suzuki in this area. Suzuki, much like Studebaker in the 50's and 60's, seems to be talking some very strong used car dealers into becoming Suzuki new car dealers around here. As Bob Lutz has said, one way to be successful in business is to follow the rule: "If everyone else is doing it - DON'T". It will be interesting to see if Susuki's strategy returns them bigger market share in the future.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

556063
02-28-2008, 06:39 PM
The same business forces that helped put Studebaker out of business have trickled down to put the same pressure on "Independent" car dealerships. For automakers, it's more expensive to administrate 4000 dealers of varying size and strength than it is to administrate 1500 or so strong dealers that can sell the same number of cars. Not every small town has a Toyota dealership, for example, and Toyota outsold both Ford and Chrysler last year.

An interesting twist I've noticed is Suzuki in this area. Suzuki, much like Studebaker in the 50's and 60's, seems to be talking some very strong used car dealers into becoming Suzuki new car dealers around here. As Bob Lutz has said, one way to be successful in business is to follow the rule: "If everyone else is doing it - DON'T". It will be interesting to see if Susuki's strategy returns them bigger market share in the future.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

JRoberts
02-28-2008, 08:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by bob40

Another "bonus" that goes along with the urban flight is that is is very hard to find a dealership that isnt part of a automotive group.These groups end up owning dealerships that cover just about every marque and they all have the same pricing scale.A dealership still owned by just one guy/gal is getting pretty rare around here in the Minneapolis/St.Paul metro area.


That is so true. Even more ironic is that many of these "groups" have dealerships across the country not just in one community. Hendrick come to mind.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

JRoberts
02-28-2008, 08:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by bob40

Another "bonus" that goes along with the urban flight is that is is very hard to find a dealership that isnt part of a automotive group.These groups end up owning dealerships that cover just about every marque and they all have the same pricing scale.A dealership still owned by just one guy/gal is getting pretty rare around here in the Minneapolis/St.Paul metro area.


That is so true. Even more ironic is that many of these "groups" have dealerships across the country not just in one community. Hendrick come to mind.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

Thomas63R2
02-28-2008, 09:25 PM
The auto mall concept did revolutionize auto retailing - but there were other simultaneous forces at work. What a modern dealer needs in service department equipment and parts inventory is/was simply unsustainable by the average mom and pop stores.

Not Studebaker, but the numbers tell a story: in the mid 1960's there were a little over 12,000 Chevrolet dealers in the U.S. Currently that number is just over 4,000 in the U.S.

With all of the hybrid and alternative fuels technology coming on board the dealers will need to expand their service equipment and parts inventory once again. Generally there is a relationship in the size of the departments to one another. So its natural to expect that inventory levels could again rise - and the number of dealers decline.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

Thomas63R2
02-28-2008, 09:25 PM
The auto mall concept did revolutionize auto retailing - but there were other simultaneous forces at work. What a modern dealer needs in service department equipment and parts inventory is/was simply unsustainable by the average mom and pop stores.

Not Studebaker, but the numbers tell a story: in the mid 1960's there were a little over 12,000 Chevrolet dealers in the U.S. Currently that number is just over 4,000 in the U.S.

With all of the hybrid and alternative fuels technology coming on board the dealers will need to expand their service equipment and parts inventory once again. Generally there is a relationship in the size of the departments to one another. So its natural to expect that inventory levels could again rise - and the number of dealers decline.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

showbizkid
02-28-2008, 10:18 PM
I remember when Car Country opened in the town next to ours, in the middle of what had been strawberry fields, in 1973. In a matter of just weeks, Hill Street was decimated, as every major dealer (except for AMC and the Dodge/Imperial dealer) left for the new auto mall. Weseloh Chevrolet, Dixon Ford, Rorick Buick/Opel, Tide Chrysler/Plymouth, Jim Finney Pontiac, Bob Winkler Volkswagen - even the Fiat dealer picked up and left.

It took our downtown 25 years to recover from that one blow.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

showbizkid
02-28-2008, 10:18 PM
I remember when Car Country opened in the town next to ours, in the middle of what had been strawberry fields, in 1973. In a matter of just weeks, Hill Street was decimated, as every major dealer (except for AMC and the Dodge/Imperial dealer) left for the new auto mall. Weseloh Chevrolet, Dixon Ford, Rorick Buick/Opel, Tide Chrysler/Plymouth, Jim Finney Pontiac, Bob Winkler Volkswagen - even the Fiat dealer picked up and left.

It took our downtown 25 years to recover from that one blow.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

Bill Pressler
02-29-2008, 03:45 AM
Not Studebaker, but the numbers tell a story: in the mid 1960's there were a little over 12,000 Chevrolet dealers in the U.S. Currently that number is just over 4,000 in the U.S.

Thomas, if that number's right, then something happened at Chevrolet between the '60's and early '70's. I definitely remember the '71 Vega brochure touting "6,300 places to get service you won't need much of" (yeah, right!).

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/main.php?g2_itemId=24937

There are still three Chevy dealers within six or seven miles in each direction of my home today.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

Bill Pressler
02-29-2008, 03:45 AM
Not Studebaker, but the numbers tell a story: in the mid 1960's there were a little over 12,000 Chevrolet dealers in the U.S. Currently that number is just over 4,000 in the U.S.

Thomas, if that number's right, then something happened at Chevrolet between the '60's and early '70's. I definitely remember the '71 Vega brochure touting "6,300 places to get service you won't need much of" (yeah, right!).

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/main.php?g2_itemId=24937

There are still three Chevy dealers within six or seven miles in each direction of my home today.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

lstude
02-29-2008, 05:14 AM
Since we are talking about Chevrolet dealerships, there was one out in the country about 10 miles west of Richmond that was colsed down only about 10 years ago. There is not even a stop light in this area.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/BriesmasterChevroletcc.jpg

The old Chevy dealership that was in downtown Richmond is now being turned into condos. It was abandoned in the early 60s when the dealership moved to the suburbs. They kept their new cars on the second and third floors.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/OldChevyDealershipdowntownfront.jpg

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/MeatSouthBendsm1.jpg

lstude
02-29-2008, 05:14 AM
Since we are talking about Chevrolet dealerships, there was one out in the country about 10 miles west of Richmond that was colsed down only about 10 years ago. There is not even a stop light in this area.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/BriesmasterChevroletcc.jpg

The old Chevy dealership that was in downtown Richmond is now being turned into condos. It was abandoned in the early 60s when the dealership moved to the suburbs. They kept their new cars on the second and third floors.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/OldChevyDealershipdowntownfront.jpg

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/MeatSouthBendsm1.jpg

jnewkirk77
02-29-2008, 05:44 AM
I mentioned Owensboro in my earlier post, but Rockport, IN, where I grew up, once had all of the major American automakers except AMC located "uptown." Feigel Dodge, Conner Ford, Parsley Bros. Chevrolet-Oldsmobile, Matthews Bros. Buick-Pontiac-GMC, Erwin Chrysler-Plymouth (used to be Erwin Studebaker in the early '60s) ... now there isn't a single new-car dealer in town. None at all. Conner Ford, which is now Collier Ford, was the first to move west -- three miles west, near the high school -- back in the mid-'80s. Reo Chevrolet moved out there about 7 or 8 years ago. And Chrysler's dealerships? They faded away in the late '70s, when a lot of dealers were jumping ship.

Someone recently bought the old Chevrolet garage uptown, but I don't know what they plan to do with it. It's small, old, and was literally crumbling, but I guess someone thinks it may have potential. It was listed for around $100,000, but I dare say it probably sold for less.

The other buildings are all being used for other things, which is a good sign for their future. Rockport is kind of a dead little town for the most part, sad to say, so anytime someone fixes something up, it's good news.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

jnewkirk77
02-29-2008, 05:44 AM
I mentioned Owensboro in my earlier post, but Rockport, IN, where I grew up, once had all of the major American automakers except AMC located "uptown." Feigel Dodge, Conner Ford, Parsley Bros. Chevrolet-Oldsmobile, Matthews Bros. Buick-Pontiac-GMC, Erwin Chrysler-Plymouth (used to be Erwin Studebaker in the early '60s) ... now there isn't a single new-car dealer in town. None at all. Conner Ford, which is now Collier Ford, was the first to move west -- three miles west, near the high school -- back in the mid-'80s. Reo Chevrolet moved out there about 7 or 8 years ago. And Chrysler's dealerships? They faded away in the late '70s, when a lot of dealers were jumping ship.

Someone recently bought the old Chevrolet garage uptown, but I don't know what they plan to do with it. It's small, old, and was literally crumbling, but I guess someone thinks it may have potential. It was listed for around $100,000, but I dare say it probably sold for less.

The other buildings are all being used for other things, which is a good sign for their future. Rockport is kind of a dead little town for the most part, sad to say, so anytime someone fixes something up, it's good news.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

loc8tor
02-29-2008, 06:45 AM
I hate to see it too. I remember as a kid(and Im a mere 43 yrs old) that staurday my dad would get gassed up because we were going to my grandparents and there was no place open on Sunday.

The big picture is that we are our own worst enemy. Stores started staying open later to get the extra $$ from the consumer, they say its to better serve us, and yes I like the convience....I mean does walmart really have to be open 24/7/365? Do car dealers have to be open on Sundays?.....but, at what cost, is it worth it?


Well lets see, now both parents have to work to make ends meet(in most cases), SO Mom or Dad isnt home to take care of the house(dishs laundry etc), oh, and Dinner(which is the reason there is so many fast food and TV dinners readily available), cars cost $20-30K(I have heard so many stories of High School kids walking into the dealer and buying thier first car, not going to happen now a days), the fun things we did as kids have been replaced by the latest and greatest video game, its more expensive(and usually illegal) to cruise than it is to see a movie.....I could go on and on, and feel free to add to the list.

Yes I know that all of this extra time the stores are open has created jobs....but when I was growing up, there didnt seem to be that many companies closing....alot of the people I knew retired from the companies they started with, JOB SECURITY, remember those words.....There were vacant buildings, BUT, it wasnt the last 4 LOWES stores that opened then closed when the new store was built only to close a year or so later to reopen another store, well you get the picture.

I want the old days back, when Sunday was truly a day of rest, when the kids got home from school the smell of REAL from scratch fresh food was what greeted you as you came in the door, Dad got off at 5 and because he didnt drive 2 hours to get to/from work he was home in time to toss the ball with jr., when we all ate at the table, said grace, and didnt have a TV in every room, saturday was a day off, back to the days where I could let my car windows down on a summer day without a chance of it being jacked, the screen door closed the hard door open without fear of someone barging into your home, when being a police officer was a good thing, and again I could go on and on....but will end with, back to the days when I could get a gallon of gas, a coke and a cheeseburger, pay with a $5, and get change!

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????

loc8tor
02-29-2008, 06:45 AM
I hate to see it too. I remember as a kid(and Im a mere 43 yrs old) that staurday my dad would get gassed up because we were going to my grandparents and there was no place open on Sunday.

The big picture is that we are our own worst enemy. Stores started staying open later to get the extra $$ from the consumer, they say its to better serve us, and yes I like the convience....I mean does walmart really have to be open 24/7/365? Do car dealers have to be open on Sundays?.....but, at what cost, is it worth it?


Well lets see, now both parents have to work to make ends meet(in most cases), SO Mom or Dad isnt home to take care of the house(dishs laundry etc), oh, and Dinner(which is the reason there is so many fast food and TV dinners readily available), cars cost $20-30K(I have heard so many stories of High School kids walking into the dealer and buying thier first car, not going to happen now a days), the fun things we did as kids have been replaced by the latest and greatest video game, its more expensive(and usually illegal) to cruise than it is to see a movie.....I could go on and on, and feel free to add to the list.

Yes I know that all of this extra time the stores are open has created jobs....but when I was growing up, there didnt seem to be that many companies closing....alot of the people I knew retired from the companies they started with, JOB SECURITY, remember those words.....There were vacant buildings, BUT, it wasnt the last 4 LOWES stores that opened then closed when the new store was built only to close a year or so later to reopen another store, well you get the picture.

I want the old days back, when Sunday was truly a day of rest, when the kids got home from school the smell of REAL from scratch fresh food was what greeted you as you came in the door, Dad got off at 5 and because he didnt drive 2 hours to get to/from work he was home in time to toss the ball with jr., when we all ate at the table, said grace, and didnt have a TV in every room, saturday was a day off, back to the days where I could let my car windows down on a summer day without a chance of it being jacked, the screen door closed the hard door open without fear of someone barging into your home, when being a police officer was a good thing, and again I could go on and on....but will end with, back to the days when I could get a gallon of gas, a coke and a cheeseburger, pay with a $5, and get change!

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????

8E45E
02-29-2008, 09:23 AM
quote:Originally posted by loc8tor

and didnt have a TV in every room,


Some things are for the better now.....even "starter homes" come with more than one bathroom!![8D] Remember having to share a single bathroom with 5 in the house, and 3 of that 5 were women??

Craig

8E45E
02-29-2008, 09:23 AM
quote:Originally posted by loc8tor

and didnt have a TV in every room,


Some things are for the better now.....even "starter homes" come with more than one bathroom!![8D] Remember having to share a single bathroom with 5 in the house, and 3 of that 5 were women??

Craig

JeffDeWitt
02-29-2008, 10:26 PM
Only one bathroom, a party line, and about 2 1/2 channels on TV!

JeffDeWitt
02-29-2008, 10:26 PM
Only one bathroom, a party line, and about 2 1/2 channels on TV!

Thomas63R2
02-29-2008, 10:44 PM
There was a marked decline in the number of Chevrolet dealers from the mid (early?) 1960's into the early '70's. There was an over abundance of tiny unproductive sales outlets. I had thought the dealer count in 1971 was greater than 6,300 - I almost think they were refering to there being 6,300 with bona fide service departments.

Nostalgia is funny: people remember what was good and what they liked - and forget all the bad. The 1960's was no bed of roses, just think about all that was happening here and abroad. At least the music was good, some incredible songs were penned amid the chaos.

Say what you want about the prices of new cars, but in many ways it is now easier for a young working person to get a nice new or late model car than it was a couple of decades back. If you go into the lowest demographic nieghborhoods today I guarantee that you will find people with brand new cars. The idyllic story of an average young person of the '60's buying cars new needs a reality check, because it was not a universally shared American experience. One salesman who I worked with got his start selling Pontiacs in 1963, the dealer gave strict orders that no cars were to be sold to black customers. He did it anyhow, cash transactions only on the weekends when the owner was not there.

Time for Stude content: how many dealers did studebaker have at its peak?

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

Thomas63R2
02-29-2008, 10:44 PM
There was a marked decline in the number of Chevrolet dealers from the mid (early?) 1960's into the early '70's. There was an over abundance of tiny unproductive sales outlets. I had thought the dealer count in 1971 was greater than 6,300 - I almost think they were refering to there being 6,300 with bona fide service departments.

Nostalgia is funny: people remember what was good and what they liked - and forget all the bad. The 1960's was no bed of roses, just think about all that was happening here and abroad. At least the music was good, some incredible songs were penned amid the chaos.

Say what you want about the prices of new cars, but in many ways it is now easier for a young working person to get a nice new or late model car than it was a couple of decades back. If you go into the lowest demographic nieghborhoods today I guarantee that you will find people with brand new cars. The idyllic story of an average young person of the '60's buying cars new needs a reality check, because it was not a universally shared American experience. One salesman who I worked with got his start selling Pontiacs in 1963, the dealer gave strict orders that no cars were to be sold to black customers. He did it anyhow, cash transactions only on the weekends when the owner was not there.

Time for Stude content: how many dealers did studebaker have at its peak?

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

jnewkirk77
02-29-2008, 11:40 PM
Thomas, your comment about the price of new cars and the ease with which a younger person can buy one really struck a chord. My Dad told me a story about his first "almost new" car:

It was a 1971 Ford Maverick Grabber. Dad's brother, Jerry, bought it new from the now-former Chuck Callahan Ford on E. 38th Street in Indianapolis (Trivia q for BP: Do you remember Chuck's slogan???) shortly after graduating from high school. However, Jerry got married the day after Christmas 1970, and he quickly found that he could not afford the payment along with rent, utilities and barber school tuition. Dad was a junior in high school at the time, and he was working two after-school jobs with money to burn. A deal was struck, and Dad ended up with the little blue Mav, which he drove until he was able to afford his first new car in the summer of '74 (a Mustang II) ...

Now, are you ready for this? The payment on that Maverick was $29 A MONTH!!! [:0][:0][:0]

Money sure went a little farther back then, huh??? [V]

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

jnewkirk77
02-29-2008, 11:40 PM
Thomas, your comment about the price of new cars and the ease with which a younger person can buy one really struck a chord. My Dad told me a story about his first "almost new" car:

It was a 1971 Ford Maverick Grabber. Dad's brother, Jerry, bought it new from the now-former Chuck Callahan Ford on E. 38th Street in Indianapolis (Trivia q for BP: Do you remember Chuck's slogan???) shortly after graduating from high school. However, Jerry got married the day after Christmas 1970, and he quickly found that he could not afford the payment along with rent, utilities and barber school tuition. Dad was a junior in high school at the time, and he was working two after-school jobs with money to burn. A deal was struck, and Dad ended up with the little blue Mav, which he drove until he was able to afford his first new car in the summer of '74 (a Mustang II) ...

Now, are you ready for this? The payment on that Maverick was $29 A MONTH!!! [:0][:0][:0]

Money sure went a little farther back then, huh??? [V]

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

mrzeke
03-01-2008, 10:18 PM
When I was 18, I bought a brand new 74 Duster for $2800....out the door! My payments were something like $83/mo for 3 years...which I thought was just terrible. I drove it for a year or so, then towed home a 63 Champ pickup which I got for $75. The rest is history....

Zeke

mrzeke
03-01-2008, 10:18 PM
When I was 18, I bought a brand new 74 Duster for $2800....out the door! My payments were something like $83/mo for 3 years...which I thought was just terrible. I drove it for a year or so, then towed home a 63 Champ pickup which I got for $75. The rest is history....

Zeke

BobPalma
03-06-2008, 08:04 AM
quote:Originally posted by loc8tor

I hate to see it too. I remember as a kid(and Im a mere 43 yrs old) that staurday my dad would get gassed up because we were going to my grandparents and there was no place open on Sunday.

The big picture is that we are our own worst enemy. Stores started staying open later to get the extra $$ from the consumer, they say its to better serve us, and yes I like the convience....I mean does walmart really have to be open 24/7/365? Do car dealers have to be open on Sundays?.....but, at what cost, is it worth it?


Well lets see, now both parents have to work to make ends meet(in most cases), SO Mom or Dad isnt home to take care of the house(dishs laundry etc), oh, and Dinner(which is the reason there is so many fast food and TV dinners readily available), cars cost $20-30K(I have heard so many stories of High School kids walking into the dealer and buying thier first car, not going to happen now a days), the fun things we did as kids have been replaced by the latest and greatest video game, its more expensive(and usually illegal) to cruise than it is to see a movie.....I could go on and on, and feel free to add to the list.

Yes I know that all of this extra time the stores are open has created jobs....but when I was growing up, there didnt seem to be that many companies closing....alot of the people I knew retired from the companies they started with, JOB SECURITY, remember those words.....There were vacant buildings, BUT, it wasnt the last 4 LOWES stores that opened then closed when the new store was built only to close a year or so later to reopen another store, well you get the picture.

I want the old days back, when Sunday was truly a day of rest, when the kids got home from school the smell of REAL from scratch fresh food was what greeted you as you came in the door, Dad got off at 5 and because he didnt drive 2 hours to get to/from work he was home in time to toss the ball with jr., when we all ate at the table, said grace, and didnt have a TV in every room, saturday was a day off, back to the days where I could let my car windows down on a summer day without a chance of it being jacked, the screen door closed the hard door open without fear of someone barging into your home, when being a police officer was a good thing, and again I could go on and on....but will end with, back to the days when I could get a gallon of gas, a coke and a cheeseburger, pay with a $5, and get change!

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????


:) Well stated, Shawn; I'm sorry I hadn't noticed your post before this morning.

Two reflections on your post and why I agree with it, both reflections from growing up in rural, 10,000-population Paris IL in the 1950s and early 1960s:

1. The idea of everything now being open on Sundays disturbs me for the reasons it does you, Shawn....and, I maintain, it would have stunted my automotive expertise, had it been common in the 1950s!

To wit: At ages 12-14, my buddies and I would gather at the biggest paved parking lot in Paris, the "new" Kroger store, to run our home-made go-karts in big circles around the lot. We'd argue the merits of Briggs & Stratton vs Clinton vs an occasional Reo or Maytag engine, and generally learn about how mechanical things work and break while having a good time.

Couldn't do it today, of course, because Kroger would be open on Sundays!

2. Regarding security: Nowdays, virtually everyone closes and locks their car when they go in to shop. In the 1950s, people would park their cars around the town square while shopping and, of course, leave their windows down.

One of my assignments at age 9 or 10 was to take bags of new-car literature from Dad's Packard-Nash-Studebaker dea

BobPalma
03-06-2008, 08:04 AM
quote:Originally posted by loc8tor

I hate to see it too. I remember as a kid(and Im a mere 43 yrs old) that staurday my dad would get gassed up because we were going to my grandparents and there was no place open on Sunday.

The big picture is that we are our own worst enemy. Stores started staying open later to get the extra $$ from the consumer, they say its to better serve us, and yes I like the convience....I mean does walmart really have to be open 24/7/365? Do car dealers have to be open on Sundays?.....but, at what cost, is it worth it?


Well lets see, now both parents have to work to make ends meet(in most cases), SO Mom or Dad isnt home to take care of the house(dishs laundry etc), oh, and Dinner(which is the reason there is so many fast food and TV dinners readily available), cars cost $20-30K(I have heard so many stories of High School kids walking into the dealer and buying thier first car, not going to happen now a days), the fun things we did as kids have been replaced by the latest and greatest video game, its more expensive(and usually illegal) to cruise than it is to see a movie.....I could go on and on, and feel free to add to the list.

Yes I know that all of this extra time the stores are open has created jobs....but when I was growing up, there didnt seem to be that many companies closing....alot of the people I knew retired from the companies they started with, JOB SECURITY, remember those words.....There were vacant buildings, BUT, it wasnt the last 4 LOWES stores that opened then closed when the new store was built only to close a year or so later to reopen another store, well you get the picture.

I want the old days back, when Sunday was truly a day of rest, when the kids got home from school the smell of REAL from scratch fresh food was what greeted you as you came in the door, Dad got off at 5 and because he didnt drive 2 hours to get to/from work he was home in time to toss the ball with jr., when we all ate at the table, said grace, and didnt have a TV in every room, saturday was a day off, back to the days where I could let my car windows down on a summer day without a chance of it being jacked, the screen door closed the hard door open without fear of someone barging into your home, when being a police officer was a good thing, and again I could go on and on....but will end with, back to the days when I could get a gallon of gas, a coke and a cheeseburger, pay with a $5, and get change!

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????


:) Well stated, Shawn; I'm sorry I hadn't noticed your post before this morning.

Two reflections on your post and why I agree with it, both reflections from growing up in rural, 10,000-population Paris IL in the 1950s and early 1960s:

1. The idea of everything now being open on Sundays disturbs me for the reasons it does you, Shawn....and, I maintain, it would have stunted my automotive expertise, had it been common in the 1950s!

To wit: At ages 12-14, my buddies and I would gather at the biggest paved parking lot in Paris, the "new" Kroger store, to run our home-made go-karts in big circles around the lot. We'd argue the merits of Briggs & Stratton vs Clinton vs an occasional Reo or Maytag engine, and generally learn about how mechanical things work and break while having a good time.

Couldn't do it today, of course, because Kroger would be open on Sundays!

2. Regarding security: Nowdays, virtually everyone closes and locks their car when they go in to shop. In the 1950s, people would park their cars around the town square while shopping and, of course, leave their windows down.

One of my assignments at age 9 or 10 was to take bags of new-car literature from Dad's Packard-Nash-Studebaker dea

BobPalma
03-06-2008, 08:09 AM
quote:Originally posted by jnewkirk77
It was a 1971 Ford Maverick Grabber. Dad's brother, Jerry, bought it new from the now-former Chuck Callahan Ford on E. 38th Street in Indianapolis (Trivia q for BP: Do you remember Chuck's slogan???) shortly after graduating from high school. Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!


:D "I got a Chuck Callahan Ford Price!"

And indeed I did, Jacob: In roughly 1969, I bought a nice, Tahiti Coral, 1959 Lark Regal hardtop, V-8 Power Pack, [:0] from the Chuck Callahan used car lot at the very address you reference. (It might have been Dave McIntire Ford at the time; 'not sure when it went from Dave McIntire to Chuck Callahan....) :D BP

BobPalma
03-06-2008, 08:09 AM
quote:Originally posted by jnewkirk77
It was a 1971 Ford Maverick Grabber. Dad's brother, Jerry, bought it new from the now-former Chuck Callahan Ford on E. 38th Street in Indianapolis (Trivia q for BP: Do you remember Chuck's slogan???) shortly after graduating from high school. Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!


:D "I got a Chuck Callahan Ford Price!"

And indeed I did, Jacob: In roughly 1969, I bought a nice, Tahiti Coral, 1959 Lark Regal hardtop, V-8 Power Pack, [:0] from the Chuck Callahan used car lot at the very address you reference. (It might have been Dave McIntire Ford at the time; 'not sure when it went from Dave McIntire to Chuck Callahan....) :D BP

Son O Lark
03-06-2008, 08:43 AM
Hey Bob P.!!;Was Snider's Studebaker On 38th St Near Illinois?

Son O Lark
03-06-2008, 08:43 AM
Hey Bob P.!!;Was Snider's Studebaker On 38th St Near Illinois?

BobPalma
03-06-2008, 09:25 AM
quote:Originally posted by Son O Lark

Hey Bob P.!!;Was Snider's Studebaker On 38th St Near Illinois?


:) It sure was: On the east side of North Illinois Street, the first property south of 38th & Illinois that was not actually on that corner. McDonald's bought the whole corner at least 25 years ago, levelled several properties including all the Snider facility, and built a new eatery. The Snider property is the back parking lot of that McDonald's.

Who are you and where are you, Son-o-Lark, that you know the area? [?]:D BP

BobPalma
03-06-2008, 09:25 AM
quote:Originally posted by Son O Lark

Hey Bob P.!!;Was Snider's Studebaker On 38th St Near Illinois?


:) It sure was: On the east side of North Illinois Street, the first property south of 38th & Illinois that was not actually on that corner. McDonald's bought the whole corner at least 25 years ago, levelled several properties including all the Snider facility, and built a new eatery. The Snider property is the back parking lot of that McDonald's.

Who are you and where are you, Son-o-Lark, that you know the area? [?]:D BP

jnewkirk77
03-06-2008, 10:46 AM
A good many of the Ford-driving members of my family got a Chuck Callahan Ford Price over the years. My grandparents, for whatever reason (although Dad and I presume it was my grandmother's sometimes-questionable taste in cars that backfired on her a few times), traded almost annually in the early '70s, and although there was a dealer in Lebanon, Callahan's could and did beat anyone's best price, bar none.

Dad tells the story of how Grandma's wheelin'-and-dealin' helped him out when he was ready to trade the Maverick for his Mustang II. Used Mavericks didn't hold their value especially well, but at that time, the "all-new" Mustang IIs were HOT (remember, this was the era of the first gas crisis). And dealers could -- and did -- usually get whatever price they asked. But not from Mrs. Venus Newkirk and her son! Not even close. As Dad recalls, they offered him $500 for the Mav and asked $4200 cash (the II that Dad bought was a Ghia, and pretty well equipped). Grandma would have none of that. She asked, "Well, where's Mr. Callahan?" Mr. Callahan came out, looked at the deal as proposed, and told Grandma that was literally the best they could do.

Grandma didn't miss a beat, looked out the window and noted the full lot and two car-haulers with nowhere to unload, and said, "My son's trying to help you find a spot for one of those new cars on those trucks, but ... he won't do it for more than $3200 cash." And, as my Grandpa had just recently bought a new '74 F-100 pickup for $3800 (when other area dealers wanted upwards of $4500 for a truck not so well equipped), Mr. Callahan knew when not to try and cross Grandma. He laughed and said, "Write the ticket."

I always liked Mr. Callahan. I don't know if he's still alive, but from that day until he retired, whenever my grandmother came in, he treated her like royalty. And he got a lot more business from our family and friends of our family, too.

In a recent phone conversation (to bring this back to a Studebaker-related topic), I asked Grandma, who is now 83, why she and Grandpa got away from Studebakers, since the first car they owned was a black '40 Champion Cruising Sedan that they dearly loved. "I made too much money selling it after the war when cars were hard to get," she said, "but I couldn't get anywhere near as good a deal on another one, as other cars were cheaper." Sad as that is, it's true, and I've heard it from other people.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

jnewkirk77
03-06-2008, 10:46 AM
A good many of the Ford-driving members of my family got a Chuck Callahan Ford Price over the years. My grandparents, for whatever reason (although Dad and I presume it was my grandmother's sometimes-questionable taste in cars that backfired on her a few times), traded almost annually in the early '70s, and although there was a dealer in Lebanon, Callahan's could and did beat anyone's best price, bar none.

Dad tells the story of how Grandma's wheelin'-and-dealin' helped him out when he was ready to trade the Maverick for his Mustang II. Used Mavericks didn't hold their value especially well, but at that time, the "all-new" Mustang IIs were HOT (remember, this was the era of the first gas crisis). And dealers could -- and did -- usually get whatever price they asked. But not from Mrs. Venus Newkirk and her son! Not even close. As Dad recalls, they offered him $500 for the Mav and asked $4200 cash (the II that Dad bought was a Ghia, and pretty well equipped). Grandma would have none of that. She asked, "Well, where's Mr. Callahan?" Mr. Callahan came out, looked at the deal as proposed, and told Grandma that was literally the best they could do.

Grandma didn't miss a beat, looked out the window and noted the full lot and two car-haulers with nowhere to unload, and said, "My son's trying to help you find a spot for one of those new cars on those trucks, but ... he won't do it for more than $3200 cash." And, as my Grandpa had just recently bought a new '74 F-100 pickup for $3800 (when other area dealers wanted upwards of $4500 for a truck not so well equipped), Mr. Callahan knew when not to try and cross Grandma. He laughed and said, "Write the ticket."

I always liked Mr. Callahan. I don't know if he's still alive, but from that day until he retired, whenever my grandmother came in, he treated her like royalty. And he got a lot more business from our family and friends of our family, too.

In a recent phone conversation (to bring this back to a Studebaker-related topic), I asked Grandma, who is now 83, why she and Grandpa got away from Studebakers, since the first car they owned was a black '40 Champion Cruising Sedan that they dearly loved. "I made too much money selling it after the war when cars were hard to get," she said, "but I couldn't get anywhere near as good a deal on another one, as other cars were cheaper." Sad as that is, it's true, and I've heard it from other people.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

JBOYLE
03-06-2008, 11:06 AM
jnewkirk77
My first car was a brand new 74 Mustang II hardtop, not a hatchback. It cost all of $3100...(not a Ghia) with just auto and AM radio (I added a factory AF-FM and factory sport mirrors later).
Good car, lasted all though college. Then sold it for $2000.
I'm tired of people bad mouthing Mustang IIs, people complain about it, it just wasn't a Mach one or high performance car. It's reputation would have been better served if it had a different name.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

JBOYLE
03-06-2008, 11:06 AM
jnewkirk77
My first car was a brand new 74 Mustang II hardtop, not a hatchback. It cost all of $3100...(not a Ghia) with just auto and AM radio (I added a factory AF-FM and factory sport mirrors later).
Good car, lasted all though college. Then sold it for $2000.
I'm tired of people bad mouthing Mustang IIs, people complain about it, it just wasn't a Mach one or high performance car. It's reputation would have been better served if it had a different name.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

jnewkirk77
03-06-2008, 11:26 AM
Dad LOVED his Mustang II. In fact, he and Mom both still rave about it, 30 years after it was totaled. It was a four-speed, four-cylinder and Mom still says it was more fun to drive than anything they had before or since. Don't laugh, but Mom told me that my '89 Escort Pony (a true econobox with NO options other than a radio, not even power steering) with a four-speed was as close in spirit to that little 'Stang than anything she's driven in the last 30 years.

Now that I'm in the process of fixing up my '87 F-150 with his help (that is going to be a neat story in itself once it's done), Dad has started talking again about finding another Mustang II and fixing it up. He's a few years away from retirement, but you know, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he did exactly that. He just does crazy things like that every so often. I guess that's where I got the "bug" to do it.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

jnewkirk77
03-06-2008, 11:26 AM
Dad LOVED his Mustang II. In fact, he and Mom both still rave about it, 30 years after it was totaled. It was a four-speed, four-cylinder and Mom still says it was more fun to drive than anything they had before or since. Don't laugh, but Mom told me that my '89 Escort Pony (a true econobox with NO options other than a radio, not even power steering) with a four-speed was as close in spirit to that little 'Stang than anything she's driven in the last 30 years.

Now that I'm in the process of fixing up my '87 F-150 with his help (that is going to be a neat story in itself once it's done), Dad has started talking again about finding another Mustang II and fixing it up. He's a few years away from retirement, but you know, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he did exactly that. He just does crazy things like that every so often. I guess that's where I got the "bug" to do it.

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL! Drive a Studebaker!

Scott
03-06-2008, 11:26 AM
Yes, well I rode in a Mustang II cross country with my sister back in the 1980s. We started in the San Francisco Bay area and made it to somewhere in Nevada when it died at about 4 in the morning and the closest thing was an onion dehydrating plant. We had to wait for people to arrive at the plant to work and then I had to trek in there to try get to use a phone (if you've ever been in an onion deydrating plant you know it's not a place you want to spend much time as you can almost feel your body being attacked by the acidic air).
We ended up getting it towed back to Reno and we had to take a taxi back to the bay area. The car was left for scrap in Reno. It was less than 10 years old and it was nothing but trouble for us.

Scott
03-06-2008, 11:26 AM
Yes, well I rode in a Mustang II cross country with my sister back in the 1980s. We started in the San Francisco Bay area and made it to somewhere in Nevada when it died at about 4 in the morning and the closest thing was an onion dehydrating plant. We had to wait for people to arrive at the plant to work and then I had to trek in there to try get to use a phone (if you've ever been in an onion deydrating plant you know it's not a place you want to spend much time as you can almost feel your body being attacked by the acidic air).
We ended up getting it towed back to Reno and we had to take a taxi back to the bay area. The car was left for scrap in Reno. It was less than 10 years old and it was nothing but trouble for us.

Son O Lark
03-07-2008, 09:10 AM
I am Son O Lark Parker!!!
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by Son O Lark

Hey Bob P.!!;Was Snider's Studebaker On 38th St Near Illinois?


:) It sure was: On the east side of North Illinois Street, the first property south of 38th & Illinois that was not actually on that corner. McDonald's bought the whole corner at least 25 years ago, levelled several properties including all the Snider facility, and built a new eatery. The Snider property is the back parking lot of that McDonald's.

Who are you and where are you, Son-o-Lark, that you know the area? [?]:D BP

Son O Lark
03-07-2008, 09:10 AM
I am Son O Lark Parker!!!
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by Son O Lark

Hey Bob P.!!;Was Snider's Studebaker On 38th St Near Illinois?


:) It sure was: On the east side of North Illinois Street, the first property south of 38th & Illinois that was not actually on that corner. McDonald's bought the whole corner at least 25 years ago, levelled several properties including all the Snider facility, and built a new eatery. The Snider property is the back parking lot of that McDonald's.

Who are you and where are you, Son-o-Lark, that you know the area? [?]:D BP

BobPalma
03-07-2008, 09:50 AM
quote:Originally posted by Son O Lark

I am Son O Lark Parker!!!

:) 'Gotcha, Barry. (Do you know your Cousin Vanessa [Click] Nelson now lives directly across the street from us in Brownbsurg?) :D BP

BobPalma
03-07-2008, 09:50 AM
quote:Originally posted by Son O Lark

I am Son O Lark Parker!!!

:) 'Gotcha, Barry. (Do you know your Cousin Vanessa [Click] Nelson now lives directly across the street from us in Brownbsurg?) :D BP

Bill Pressler
03-07-2008, 10:09 AM
[i]My first car was a brand new 74 Mustang II hardtop, not a hatchback. It cost all of $3100...(not a Ghia) with just auto and AM radio (I added a factory AF-FM and factory sport mirrors later).
Good car, lasted all though college. Then sold it for $2000.
I'm tired of people bad mouthing Mustang IIs, people complain about it, it just wasn't a Mach one or high performance car. It's reputation would have been better served if it had a different name.[/

My college girlfriend's car was a chocolate-brown 4-cyl. Mustang II fastback. I believe it was a '74. I don't remember it being a bad car. I think you're right, with all these years' hindsight, they should have probably picked another name!

Back then, I WAY preferred Chevy's Monza 2+2 for looks and "cool"! Although, I had two friends who had those new (first year '75 models, when you didn't see hardly any of them until mid-ways through the model year), and with the V8's they ate front tires and brakes like crazy. They were nicely-styled though. However, I distinctly remember the Mustang II having it all-over the Monza, in the instrument panel department. The Mustang's looked like a luxury car dash, but the Monza's Vega heritage was all-too apparent in the instrument panel.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

Bill Pressler
03-07-2008, 10:09 AM
[i]My first car was a brand new 74 Mustang II hardtop, not a hatchback. It cost all of $3100...(not a Ghia) with just auto and AM radio (I added a factory AF-FM and factory sport mirrors later).
Good car, lasted all though college. Then sold it for $2000.
I'm tired of people bad mouthing Mustang IIs, people complain about it, it just wasn't a Mach one or high performance car. It's reputation would have been better served if it had a different name.[/

My college girlfriend's car was a chocolate-brown 4-cyl. Mustang II fastback. I believe it was a '74. I don't remember it being a bad car. I think you're right, with all these years' hindsight, they should have probably picked another name!

Back then, I WAY preferred Chevy's Monza 2+2 for looks and "cool"! Although, I had two friends who had those new (first year '75 models, when you didn't see hardly any of them until mid-ways through the model year), and with the V8's they ate front tires and brakes like crazy. They were nicely-styled though. However, I distinctly remember the Mustang II having it all-over the Monza, in the instrument panel department. The Mustang's looked like a luxury car dash, but the Monza's Vega heritage was all-too apparent in the instrument panel.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

Son O Lark
03-07-2008, 10:21 AM
She just can't get away from the ol' B-Burg.Vanessa grew up in Brownsburg.The Hot Dogs are still better than the Bulldogs!! Although it looks as if Brownsburg has done well this year in the b-ball tournament!:D
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by Son O Lark

I am Son O Lark Parker!!!

:) 'Gotcha, Barry. (Do you know your Cousin Vanessa [Click] Nelson now lives directly across the street from us in Brownbsurg?) :D BP

Son O Lark
03-07-2008, 10:21 AM
She just can't get away from the ol' B-Burg.Vanessa grew up in Brownsburg.The Hot Dogs are still better than the Bulldogs!! Although it looks as if Brownsburg has done well this year in the b-ball tournament!:D
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by Son O Lark

I am Son O Lark Parker!!!

:) 'Gotcha, Barry. (Do you know your Cousin Vanessa [Click] Nelson now lives directly across the street from us in Brownbsurg?) :D BP

Guido
03-10-2008, 11:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by lstude

Since we are talking about Chevrolet dealerships, there was one out in the country about 10 miles west of Richmond that was colsed down only about 10 years ago. There is not even a stop light in this area.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/BriesmasterChevroletcc.jpg
As I understand it, Briesmaster lost their lease and had to move out. They relocated across the road to a renovated house, but that lasted about 2 weeks before they were shut down.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/62/562/2/21/69/2353221690097493054hwathP_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/60/460/3/91/1/2433391010097493054nAMBKh_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/24/565/2/49/65/2603249650097493054XvpTUI_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/64/564/6/89/77/2752689770097493054skXzAT_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/24/565/5/22/8/2609522080097493054ZNRJeA_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/69/169/4/66/56/2729466560097493054oBZsXT_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive, a 1970 Dodge W-200 Power Wagon and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

See pictures here: http://community.webshots.com/user/GuidoSalvage

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
03-10-2008, 11:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by lstude

Since we are talking about Chevrolet dealerships, there was one out in the country about 10 miles west of Richmond that was colsed down only about 10 years ago. There is not even a stop light in this area.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/BriesmasterChevroletcc.jpg
As I understand it, Briesmaster lost their lease and had to move out. They relocated across the road to a renovated house, but that lasted about 2 weeks before they were shut down.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/62/562/2/21/69/2353221690097493054hwathP_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/60/460/3/91/1/2433391010097493054nAMBKh_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/24/565/2/49/65/2603249650097493054XvpTUI_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/64/564/6/89/77/2752689770097493054skXzAT_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/24/565/5/22/8/2609522080097493054ZNRJeA_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/69/169/4/66/56/2729466560097493054oBZsXT_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive, a 1970 Dodge W-200 Power Wagon and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

See pictures here: http://community.webshots.com/user/GuidoSalvage

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Stu63
03-10-2008, 11:57 AM
In Butler PA Butler County Ford is still located on Main St. Where it has been since the days of the T. All the other dealers have folded or moved south of town. It is interesting to see the inside as the building is four stories high and all the floors are used. The old timers tell me all about the Stude dealership when ever I drive my Avanti into town. The best I can tell it folded years ago. Long before I move into the area.

Butler, PA
63 Avanti R1 R2899

Stu63
03-10-2008, 11:57 AM
In Butler PA Butler County Ford is still located on Main St. Where it has been since the days of the T. All the other dealers have folded or moved south of town. It is interesting to see the inside as the building is four stories high and all the floors are used. The old timers tell me all about the Stude dealership when ever I drive my Avanti into town. The best I can tell it folded years ago. Long before I move into the area.

Butler, PA
63 Avanti R1 R2899