Power Steering Pulleys Don't line up on R2 engine?

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

I have just finished rebuilding the Power Steering Pump (P/S)and Painting it. I've installed it on the R2 but the Pulleys don't seem to line up.



I'm using the old stand offs from the 289 P/S unit



Here's them off the engine.



It appears that these are the correct P/S stand off by looking at Terry Stienhelfer's pretty R2 engine bay. You can see the small stand off at the Water pump manifold.



That leave me with the wrong pulley configuration at the crank. Here is my set up consisting of R2 Dampner P/S pulley (from my old engine drilled out to fit the shoulder of the Dampner)and the Supercharger pulley. There are no spacers between any crank pulleys



It appears that the P/S pulley is 5/16" too forward.



Here's another pic from the bottom



Does the R2 Hawk set up require a 1/4"-5/16" special spacer between the Dampner and P/S spacer?

What's going on here?



1964 GT Hawk R2 Clone
Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter
See you at Niagara 2008 Crossroads Zone Meet July 18-20

[JDP]

I know the PS pulley is unique to the R series engine #1557898 and I you may need the spacer too.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

[ROADRACELARK]

IMMIC, On P/S equipped R-2's, the P/S belt runs in the groove on the harmonic balancer, no water pump. The alternator belt runs in the next pulley forward and on the water pump pulley. On NON-P/S equipped R-2's, the alternator belt runs in the harmonic balancer groove and the water pump. Completely different on the Avanti. I hope this helps.

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

[JDP]

Ok, something is amiss here. I've never seen a correct R2 with the PS pump driven off the damper, and I've owned 8 of the darn things.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

[ROADRACELARK]

JP,
Obviously my memory is not correct. You are. As the kids say these days..."My Bad". Sorry for the misinformation.[B)] I'll scratch harder next time.

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

[JDP]

Well, I didn't trust my memory either, so I had to look at the three R2's here to be sure. I thought I might have been mistaken myself, and it would not be the first time.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

I phoned Myers Studebaker last week inquiring about the P/S crank pulley. Micheal seems to recall the only difference between a R2 P/S pulley and a 289 pulley is the diameter of the center hole. The larger hole is required for the ridge on the Hawk S/C pulley to fit into the dampener. I have drilled out my P/S crank pulley to have the ridge of the S/C pulley go through and mount to the dampener. He did not think a spacer was required.

I can not find a section in the Green pages that even suggests a spacer even exists.

When you look down to line up the P/S pump pulley and the crank pulley is there this discrepancy between the two pulleys or do they line up perfectly?

I am wondering how much out this pulley can be before I am asking for trouble with bushings wearing prematurely on the P/S pump.

Something is amiss here.





1964 GT Hawk R2 Clone
Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter
See you at Niagara 2008 Crossroads Zone Meet July 18-20

[JDP]

The spacer is mentioned in the regular parts section, but I can't recall if I use one on the R series.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

I've got the standard spacer but using it would bring the S/C pulley to far forward and it would not fit the S/C pulley ridge. Hopefully I can get some sound advice on the proper configuration of the crank pulley setup. I am afraid that adding spacers will screw up the entire S/C pulley line up requiring shims for the S/C etc.



1964 GT Hawk R2 Clone
Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter
See you at Niagara 2008 Crossroads Zone Meet July 18-20

[JDP]

I took another look at my R2's for you and I am not convinced the different hole size is the only difference in the R2 and standard PS pulley. You have a gap between your home made PS pulley and the damper and I do not. It may be a difference in the cone shape and depth.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
39 Coupe express

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

Point well taken John. The cone shape of a R2 pulley could very well be slightly different if your R2 crank pulley is tight to the dampner but that would make my situation even worse by drawing the P/S crank pulley further away from the P/S pulley than it already is. Ideally I would like it to be extended the P/S crank pulley away from the dampner a 1/4" so that it lines up with the P/S pump.

Considering a difference between my drilled out standard pulley and an R2 Pulley, is the diameter the same? I you look at my picture the cranks P/S pulleys diameter is different than both the dampner and the S/C pulley.

Is it possible that the P/S standoffs are shorter on the R2's than I am using?

I could have the standoff's machined to be able to mount the P/S pump back slightly but I would only gain maybe a 1/8" and not have a solid mount for the water pump manifold. More problems.





1964 GT Hawk R2 Clone
Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter
See you at Niagara 2008 Crossroads Zone Meet July 18-20

[GTtim]

Allen, I just went out to look, jeez it's cold out there, and I agree with JP. There isn't any space between the PS pulley and the dampener. I remember trying to line the pulleys up when I put the engine together and I notice that I have a flat washer and lock washer at the water manifold and then another thick washer on the back side of the power steering pump. If this puts the pump out too far on your engine, maybe the problem lies with the pumps pulley and how it is on the shaft. The pulley on my pump very nearly rubs the tops of the bolts on the pump. Having said all this, there is a lot of alignment possibilities with the three points of attachment that the pump uses. I remember it was difficult to tell if the pump was actually in the same plane as the engine pulleys, if it is skewed at all laying a ruler on it won't tell you if it is actually in line. It would probably be better to put the ruler on the supercharger pulley and use another to measure back to the pump and the PS pulley. Does any of this make sense?
Good luck.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

Tim,

You're a breath of fresh air! Your comment about your pulley almost rubbing the bolts on the P/S pump hit me. I've got that pulley on backwards! Flipping the pulley around will line things up perfectly. I went back to look at my disassembly picture and sure enough I've mounted the pulley the wrong way! Thanks a million!

Don't mount your pulley on wrong! It causes too much frustration.





1964 GT Hawk R2 Clone
Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter
See you at Niagara 2008 Crossroads Zone Meet July 18-20

[JDP]

Nice catch on the pump pulley, that never occurred to me, I was obsessed with the crank pulley misalignment. You may be OK with the stock, redrilled PS pulley on the crank now, it'll only be maybe a 1/4 inch off.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
39 Coupe express

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

Thanks JP. I too was obsessed with that crank pulley setup for more than a couple of weeks. It really threw me when Don Simmons came over and delivered a rebuilt Powershift that I bought off of him. Don noticed no P/S pulley on the R2. That conversation started the whole thing for me.

It just goes to show you where these old saying come from.... "Sometimes you can't see the forest because of the trees."

I'm just happy another issue is resolved and I can move forward with the next issue. Looks like I've got an Idler arm pulley that need to be repaired or replaced.





1964 GT Hawk R2 Clone
Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter
See you at Niagara 2008 Crossroads Zone Meet July 18-20