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dstude
11-20-2018, 12:35 AM
I've asked about this before, but I've had absolutely no luck finding anyone who will build a four-into-two exhaust header for a 169 flathead six. It seems like someone could sell several of them if they were to build them. I can't be the only one who wants one. Or am I?

I can't even find anyone who has a flange kit for that engine for people who want to build their own exhaust. The flanges certainly existed at one time because the 169 was a fairly common engine in sprint cars in the early 50s. If we end up having some flanges made for our own do-it-yourself project, would anyone else be interested in them?

Or can anyone steer me to someone who could build a nice, race car-looking header? Thanks.

BobWaitz
11-20-2018, 08:48 AM
I know a guy. I'll see if he's interested.

PackardV8
11-20-2018, 10:25 AM
A header for the Champion is nice bling, but until some serious money is spent on a cam, larger intake valves, porting, intake manifold and compression, the header won't give a large horsepower increase. Does sound good, though.

jack vines

sals54
11-20-2018, 03:52 PM
A header for the Champion is nice bling, but until some serious money is spent on a cam, larger intake valves, porting, intake manifold and compression, the header won't give a large horsepower increase. Does sound good, though.

jack vines

You're right about that sound, Jack. It sounds sweeeet. If you saw the movie "Cars", it sounds very much like the Hudson Hornet does in that movie.

dstude
12-03-2018, 01:54 AM
I already have a Morgan high-compression aluminum head and Morgan dual-carb intake for the engine, apparently 50s sprint car engine pieces. My engine is presently stock but is too fresh right now to make me want to open it up. Eventually porting and larger valves may happen, but now I just want to make it look like a barn find hot rod from the 50s. The extra torque the engine might make from the higher compression will just be a pleasant bonus. I need a header because the Morgan intake doesn't leave room for a split exhaust manifold, and because they look and sound right for what I want the car to be. Any help finding someone who can build a nice 4-into-2 header will be much appreciated.

sals54
12-03-2018, 08:46 AM
The exhaust flange would not be too tough to fabricate with a cut off wheel and a hole saw. I made an intake for a 6 that way. Use 1/2” bar stock so the clamps match. Then have a hot rod minded muffler shop fab a set for you. You’ll want duals out the back to get that great sound anyway.

gordr
12-03-2018, 12:39 PM
If the Morgan intake leaves room for a stock manifold, it should leave room for a split one. I know a guy here who has done the split-manifold deal with dual carbs on the Champion six. It definitely has a unique sound to it. Basically, you cut the manifold between ports 2 and 3, weld the cut ends closed, and add a dump tube and flange on the rear half, parallel to the original. The original heat riser stays with the front half.

PackardV8
12-03-2018, 02:24 PM
If the Morgan intake leaves room for a stock manifold, it should leave room for a split one. I know a guy here who has done the split-manifold deal with dual carbs on the Champion six. It definitely has a unique sound to it. Basically, you cut the manifold between ports 2 and 3, weld the cut ends closed, and add a dump tube and flange on the rear half, parallel to the original. The original heat riser stays with the front half.

We just pulled the intake/exhaust manifold off a '52 Champion and were surprised to see someone had welded a second exhaust outlet between #3 and #4, but had not split and blocked between #2 and #3. That would sound different, but maybe not worth all the effort and expense to put the second system on it.

jack vines

Edsel G. Tattooer
12-06-2018, 06:39 PM
THis guy has flanges for Studebaker 224 259 289

http://www.victoryheaderflanges.com/headerflanges.html

Im going to can tact him to see if they will do the 6's as well.

dstude
12-07-2018, 01:07 AM
No, the Morgan intake does not leave room for a split intake. Not even close. It was obviously a racing part and its runners are very short, only 3/4" from the side of the block to the side of the intake's large plenum, meaning even a tubing header will have to turn downward immediately at the exhaust port in order to allow room for the intake manifold be bolted in place. On the other hand, Offenhauser makes a dual-carb intake that will work with a split exhaust manifold because the Offy intake has longer intake runners that position the plenum and carbs far enough away from the block to allow a rewelded, split exhaust casting to be bolted to the block along with the Offy intake. I know it's a little crazy, but since I have these nice Morgan parts I'd like to use them, and a header is the only way that can happen.

gordr
12-07-2018, 01:40 PM
Thanks for the update on the Morgan intake. That is one I have never seen, and somewhere I have a brochure from the Frank Morgan company, too. What about making a spacer (or set thereof) to space the intake further out from the block to allow for a regular split manifold? Real short intake passages usually perform well only at very high RPM, and aren't offer compatible with street use. Look at all the modern EFI engines with their very long, but equal-length, intake runners.

PackardV8
12-07-2018, 08:53 PM
No, the Morgan intake does not leave room for a split intake. Not even close. It was obviously a racing part and its runners are very short, only 3/4" from the side of the block to the side of the intake's large plenum, meaning even a tubing header will have to turn downward immediately at the exhaust port in order to allow room for the intake manifold be bolted in place. On the other hand, Offenhauser makes a dual-carb intake that will work with a split exhaust manifold because the Offy intake has longer intake runners that position the plenum and carbs far enough away from the block to allow a rewelded, split exhaust casting to be bolted to the block along with the Offy intake. I know it's a little crazy, but since I have these nice Morgan parts I'd like to use them, and a header is the only way that can happen.

I'm confused here. Can the Morgan intake manifold be not be used with in conjunction with an OEM exhaust manifold? Splitting the OEM exhaust manifold and adding a second outlet for the rear two exhaust ports has been done with the Champion for the past seventy-five years.

jack vines

dstude
12-20-2018, 05:03 AM
If someone will explain how to add photos to a post, I'll add some pictures of the Morgan intake (and the head, if anyone is interested). Both are very nice pieces. I just haven't seen any of the common icons for adding a photo to the posts. Thanks.

52-fan
12-20-2018, 08:57 AM
Is it different from this example?

sals54
12-20-2018, 11:33 AM
Is it different from this example?
Sure looks like a modified exhaust would fit since the stock exhaust fits fine.

52-fan
12-20-2018, 01:15 PM
I ran across this picture in my files. It might help with designing yours.

bensherb
12-20-2018, 04:22 PM
If someone will explain how to add photos to a post, I'll add some pictures of the Morgan intake (and the head, if anyone is interested). Both are very nice pieces. I just haven't seen any of the common icons for adding a photo to the posts. Thanks.

Click the icon that is a picture of a tree (3rd from right) and follow the prompts. "from computer", "choose file", then "upload file".

DEEPNHOCK
12-20-2018, 06:17 PM
You could make some short spacer blocks to push the Morgan out far enough to clear the curved tubes of a steel tube exhaust header.
Hang in there... You'll get it done!
Sounds like a neat project.
I did up a Morgan dual ace and a Morgan head a while back. The Morgan intake is indeed short and close to the block.

dstude
12-20-2018, 08:02 PM
Thanks for the tips on uploading photos. Here are some pictures of the Morgan cylinder head and intake. The head is currently at the machine shop being surfaced. I don't know what compression ratio the head was designed to produce, so I hated to have to have it surfaced in case that might increase the chances of the valves hitting the head. But it definitely needed to be machined. I'll know soon if there is a clearance problem. If so, I'll need to find someone who makes solid copper head gaskets so I can get the clearance I'll need.

Well, apparently no photos. I followed the very clear instructions and ended up with a message saying "invalid files," whatever that might mean, so I'll have to try to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

The good news is that someone is now building a 4-into-2 header for me, and that is really the last important piece I needed for the engine project. Hopefully, by the time everything is installed on the engine I'll have figured out how to add photos to a forum post.

StudeRich
12-20-2018, 09:38 PM
jpg, jpeg, and gif Picture Files are allowed, and there is a very reasonable Size limit.

52-fan
12-20-2018, 09:59 PM
Are you loading the pictures to your computer first? I find that easier than loading from another host. Just click 'go advanced' and then scroll down to 'manage attachments' click, and then click 'choose file', go to your pictures and select the one you want. Down load one or several and exit when finished. Just read and follow the prompts.

dstude
12-21-2018, 01:33 AM
Yes, the photos were taken with my phone, then downloaded to a laptop. I've both emailed and texted them to several friends but cannot seem to make the SDC system work for me. I'll keep trying and will welcome any tips and advice. Thanks.

sals54
12-21-2018, 09:28 AM
I ran across this picture in my files. It might help with designing yours.
On this one they went to a lot of trouble to keep all the outlets connected. If you wanted to make one yourself, you could simply use bar stock and cut each flange piece separately. Then have it welded up to fit while bolted to the block. And it does not have to be as complicated as the one you see either. A much shorter 2 into 1 Y would be just as efficient. Remember that you’re not really gaining any horse power with these. Losing a bit of weight and gaining a terrific new sound is worth the effort. Good luck.

Edsel G. Tattooer
12-21-2018, 04:29 PM
My previous post with http://www.victoryheaderflanges.com/headerflanges.html

Update
(http://www.victoryheaderflanges.com/headerflanges.html)
They have been left high and dry from the manufactuerer of their flanges so if you know some one looking to do small runs They are looking for a co to team up with. But they did make them for us.