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Dwight FitzSimons
09-10-2018, 11:03 PM
From what I've observed some '64 Hawks have black between the ribs on the aluminum rocker panel moldings and some don't. Of course, those without black between the ribs could have had their moldings replaced between 1963 and now. My '64 Hawk has the black. Does anyone know whether the black on these moldings was originally on all '64 Hawks or was added after the start of production (or the reverse)?
-Dwight

Lou Van Anne
09-10-2018, 11:08 PM
...and how about the same for the sail panel molding? My 64 has black between the ribs there, but the rock panel covers don't....

Jeffry Cassel
09-11-2018, 08:39 AM
Not sure I have ever seen one with black between the ribs. The panel at the base of sail did have flat black between the ribs. So ditto Lou!

stude1964
09-11-2018, 09:04 AM
Mine have had the black in the ribs at the sail panel but no black in the rocker moulding.
Rob in PA.

- - - Updated - - -

Mine have had the black in the ribs at the sail panel but no black in the rocker moulding.
Rob in PA.

jbwhttail
09-11-2018, 09:17 AM
i have a NOS set of rocker panel mouldings as well as the panels that go on the sails, the sails have flat black and the rockers do not.

Randy Ridenour
09-11-2018, 10:20 AM
My 64 GT Hawk does not have black paint on the rocker panels and I know that they have never been replaced.

Dwight FitzSimons
09-11-2018, 11:02 AM
I have never seen a '64 Hawk without the black stripes on the C pillar moldings (my 2 '64s have them). But, additionally, my '64 Hawk sn 64V5437 has black stripes between the ribs on the rocker panel moldings (see pic). They are painted on, not tape, and they look professionally done, as if original. This car appears to be original in every way and is a nice survivor. But, I have seen several '64s without the rocker panel black stripes, including a beautiful, perfectly restored Bordeaux Red R2 at South Bend last year.

Note that the '64 Studebaker dealer full-line book, on page 5/1, shows a white '64 Hawk with what appear to be black stripes on the rocker panel moldings. The stripes on the rocker moldings make sense when one looks at the side grille trim and the C panel moldings.

So, we have a mystery; why do some '64s have the stripes and some do not?
-Dwight

GTCruiser
09-11-2018, 01:54 PM
Will add my two cents. My '64 does not have the black in the rocker moldings and does have the black in the sails. Rocker moldings are repro, but the originals also do not have the black.

BigBillyHawk
09-11-2018, 03:48 PM
75620 an original factory produced picture of a 64 Hawk: what " GTCruiser" said.

studefan
09-11-2018, 04:12 PM
Dwight,

In all these years, I have never seen the rocker panels painted black.

Your white Hawk looks repainted. Maybe they painted the rockers at that time also?

Dwight FitzSimons
09-11-2018, 06:49 PM
Dwight,

In all these years, I have never seen the rocker panels painted black.

Your white Hawk looks repainted. Maybe they painted the rockers at that time also?

My Hawk has been repainted, but I doubt that the rocker moldings were aftermarket painted. A couple reasons: (1) The paint job is an ordinary one, not high end. The body shop wouldn't have done anything they didn't have to. (2) It would have been a time-consuming job to have painted the background (only) on the rocker moldings due to all the masking required. An ordinary body shop (which it was) would have masked only the surrounds of the moldings, then sprayed them, then used lacquer thinner to wipe paint off the ribs. But that is not what I have. Only the background of the molding is painted on my car, no part of the ribs are painted. (3) If it weren't original why would anyone paint the aluminum moldings anyway?
-Dwight

studegary
09-11-2018, 08:26 PM
My Hawk has been repainted, but I doubt that the rocker moldings were aftermarket painted. A couple reasons: (1) The paint job is an ordinary one, not high end. The body shop wouldn't have done anything they didn't have to. (2) It would have been a time-consuming job to have painted the background (only) on the rocker moldings due to all the masking required. An ordinary body shop (which it was) would have masked only the surrounds of the moldings, then sprayed them, then used lacquer thinner to wipe paint off the ribs. But that is not what I have. Only the background of the molding is painted on my car, no part of the ribs are painted. (3) If it weren't original why would anyone paint the aluminum moldings anyway?
-Dwight

To answer your question - Because they liked the look.
Unless a person is the original owner of a car, it is almost impossible to know what has been changed. I can think of two examples of my own. I bought two new Plymouths in the mid-1960s, a '64 Fury hardtop and a '65 Sport Fury hardtop. When they were brand new, I neatly changed the trim paint on the front and side of the '64 and the tailpipes on the '65. I kept neither of these cars more than one year. The next owners probably thought that the cars were all original.

EDIT: Some new cars were changed before they were ever delivered new. Think of all of the 1961 Hawks that had the fin stripe repainted before the cars were sold, particularly on white Hawks.

Dwight FitzSimons
09-11-2018, 09:56 PM
I agree that not everything that appears to be original is. In 1965 I bought a '63 R2 Hawk. It was a non-full-package car, so had the fender R2 badges, but no grille badge. I went to Foley Motors in Harrisonburg, Va and ordered a '63 R2 grille badge and installed it. It cost between $2 and $3. The next owner probably swore that it came from the factory with that badge.

I just looked at my '64 Hawk rocker moldings again. If someone painted them they certainly went to a lot of trouble, masking off not only the tops but also the sides of all the ribs. That would take a lot of patience. I see no evidence of a razor blade having been used (although that would be hard to prove).

Anyway, attached are pix from the 1964 Studebaker dealer full-line specs book. It shows what look for all the world like black stripes on the rocker moldings. I don't think those are shadows because no such thing shows up in the pix of '64 Hawks I have taken or found on the internet. Note also that the '64 Hawk in the dealer book lacks the black gaskets around the headlamp rims and side grilles which the production cars had. As we know, publicity photos are taken before all specs are finalized, so can't be used to establish originality. So, perhaps Studebaker's designers (Brooks Stevens) intended the rocker moldings to have black stripes and they never made it to production. But then there is still my car, and the dealer book. I'll continue to look into this very important issue. Inquiring minds want to know.
-Dwight

studegary
09-11-2018, 10:03 PM
Makes me think of when I repainted the black strips on the chrome bumper on my 1954 Mercury. I did not use masking tape, paint remover, etc., I just used a good brush, good paint and a steady hand (decades ago when I was young and steady).

studegary
09-11-2018, 10:22 PM
Please do not misinterpret my postings. I am not saying that it was not possible that the factory may have striped a few of these rocker mouldings. I just believe that it is more likely that the black was done later, perhaps by something as simple as a striping tool/wheel.

jimmijim8
09-12-2018, 05:08 AM
From what I've observed some '64 Hawks have black between the ribs on the aluminum rocker panel moldings and some don't. Of course, those without black between the ribs could have had their moldings replaced between 1963 and now. My '64 Hawk has the black. Does anyone know whether the black on these moldings was originally on all '64 Hawks or was added after the start of production (or the reverse)?
-Dwight I bought a 64 grille, rocker trim and sail trim at a swap meet from the same vendor. Black paint on rockers and sail panels. Can we get a ruling? cheers jimmijim

Dwight FitzSimons
09-12-2018, 06:48 AM
I bought a 64 grille, rocker trim and sail trim at a swap meet from the same vendor. Black paint on rockers and sail panels. Can we get a ruling? cheers jimmijim

YES!!! We have a confirmation! I'm not in dementia...yet. I thought there had to be at least one other '64 out there with the black stripes on the rocker moldings.

BTW, my Hawk's rocker moldings were not hand painted, they were sprayed, and there is no orange peel.

Anyone who has a copy of the 1964 "Studebaker Different by Design" dealer specs book (11" H x 13" W, vinyl-bound, ring binder) might want to look at page 5/1. As I see it the '64 Hawk there has the black stripes on the rocker moldings.

These stripes might have been like either: (1) The headlamp rims on '62 Hawks, which were chrome rather than painted as Brooks Stevens wanted because Studebaker had a large supply of chrome ones left over, OR (2) The parking lamp bezels on early '63 Hawks, which weren't the final ones, apparently because the final ones weren't available in time for the start of '63 production.
-Dwight

Buzzard
09-12-2018, 12:20 PM
Dwight,
My '63 GT is a very late December Canadian production, still all original and has the sail panels with black but not the rocker moldings.
Hope this helps.
Bill

JGK 940
09-12-2018, 02:42 PM
75647

'64 full-sized brochure. To me, the "weight" of the apparent black stripes in the rocker molding is equal to that in the sail panel trim. Seems the last '64 GT I saw, in Sacramento, had the black striping on the rockers. All of which, of course, proves nothing ;-)

StudeRich
09-12-2018, 03:18 PM
One or Two Prototypes that "have something" does NOT make it original on Production Models.

Was there a small batch of painted mouldings purchased possibly from a different Supplier for the first '64's? Maybe, but not used on Most Production '64 GT Hawks IF ANY! ;)

mbstude
09-12-2018, 04:59 PM
Has anyone checked the parts books? If the '64 had painted stripes, the factory would've given the rocker moulding a new part number. Or at least the same number with a "P" on the end.

StudeRich
09-12-2018, 06:22 PM
Has anyone checked the parts books? If the '64 had painted stripes, the factory would've given the rocker moulding a new part number. Or at least the same number with a "P" on the end.

Good point! 2 of: 1343597 required on ALL 1962 to 1964 K Models.

bensherb
09-12-2018, 08:44 PM
I sincerely doubt they're original to my car, but my '62 GT has black painted bottoms in the grooves of the rocker moldings as described earlier. They don't appear to have been masked and only the bottom is painted, as though it was done by a machine.

Dwight FitzSimons
09-12-2018, 09:14 PM
Good point! 2 of: 1343597 required on ALL 1962 to 1964 K Models.

I assume you're using the 1959-64 Lark-type & Hawk Body Parts Catalog, dated October 1963? This went to press before the end of '64 Hawk production, so might not have reflected any late changes.
-Dwight

Dwight FitzSimons
09-12-2018, 09:24 PM
I sincerely doubt they're original to my car, but my '62 GT has black painted bottoms in the grooves of the rocker moldings as described earlier. They don't appear to have been masked and only the bottom is painted, as though it was done by a machine.

Your rocker moldings (& mine for that matter) could have been manufactured for Studebaker and supplied over the counter by a Studebaker dealer, Standard Surplus, N & A, etc., and installed post-production on our cars. Your '62 provides another datum that some with black stripes appear to have been made.
-Dwight

Dwight FitzSimons
09-16-2018, 09:24 PM
One or Two Prototypes that "have something" does NOT make it original on Production Models.

Was there a small batch of painted mouldings purchased possibly from a different Supplier for the first '64's? Maybe, but not used on Most Production '64 GT Hawks IF ANY! ;)

Let's not jump to conclusions. I am following the same methodology I used during my career as a DoD intelligence analyst: gather information, process it, develop a hypothesis, and reach a conclusion. The stage we are in currently is gathering information.

We currently have 3-4 sets of rocker moldings with the black stripes, sufficient reason to continue the investigation.

What we have so far is:

(1) my '64 Hawk with the black-stripe moldings,
(2) a loose set of '64 moldings with the stripes “off a ’64 Hawk,”
(3) a third possible sighting (post #19),
(4) a '62 Hawk with the black stripes (post #23),
(5) brochures that appear to show the black stripes,
(6) no separate P/N for them.

We have, as yet, no proof that they came on the cars originally, but no proof that they didn't either.


The fact that there is no separate P/N for the black-stripe moldings doesn't prove that Studebaker's supplier (likely only one, due to low volume) didn't make some with the black stripes.


Recall that sales of the Hawk dropped about in half from '62 to '63, so there was likely a good supply of them left over after '63 Hawk production ended. That could have resulted in exactly the same situation that resulted in the '62 Hawk having chrome headlamp rims, rather than body-color ones as Brooks Stevens specified—a large supply of parts that Studebaker wanted to use up rather than purchase more from the supplier.


Note that if the black-stripe rocker moldings were installed at the factory on even one car then they are “production” for that car. We all know that Studebaker did some oddball things. So did the big 3 for that matter.
-Dwight

SScopelli
09-21-2018, 10:06 AM
Just paint the black.. It looks great.